What's the worst "PUG killer" veteran group dungeon boss?

Tyrobius

code65536 wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

Banished Cells II - Rilis

@Drummerx04 posted this screenshot only about a month ago, from a Group Finder vBC2 that he was tanking: 4 Daedroths up and the boss is only at 83%.

I count 7!!!

leeux

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

It has to be from DLCs? If not, I think Praxin aka "The Pugslayer" from Spindle II should receive an honorary mention! He probably has a lot of players's heads mounted in a wall from all those years back (including mine ofc.)

driosketch

I've had some of these DLC bosses stop inexperienced groups on normal.

code65536

Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor (vICP)

leeux wrote: »

It has to be from DLCs?

I originally had a long list of poll options, including Grobull and Praxin. But despite allowing me to add 20 different options to the poll, the forum did not allow me to actually submit the poll until I brought the number of options down to 10, so most of the old pre-DLC bosses did not make it off the cutting floor (Horvantud did, though).

Rake

Mylenne Moon-Caller (vMHK)

Inhibitor is a joke compared to before

Tasear

The Vault Protector (vFV)

What is easier now. Icp most people don't know how do it right without burning it.

Adernath

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

code65536 wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

Starting with the tank who clicks the pinion to open the fight (still happens today)

That's... what you're supposed to do? Taunt doesn't work, so taking the pinion is the correct way to open the fight.

The tank can simply start attacking the boss first, he gets the first aggro - as with every other boss in this game. The pinion is only there to change the aggro during the boss fight.

code65536 wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

not properly tanking it away from the pinion

Holding the boss on the pinion (until blue phase, of course) is the correct strategy. Back when pre-blue-phase pinion rotation was required (these days, it's possible for a tank to just hold the pinion for the entire period before blue phase, but that wasn't always possible), it's best to hold the boss on or near the pinion, so that the boss stays stationary and is not moved out of ground DoTs as the pinion is rotated between players.

With all respect but this is not correct. 1. This isn't really a dps rush and more importantly: 2. because if you click the pinion in the blue phase while the boss is standing next to you, you have no time until the boss reaches you (by snare) and before the the pinion is reset so that someone else can take over. The boss should have to walk from one side of the map to the other so that other people can click the pinion before the boss can reach you.

As I said, fairly simple mechanics but the discussion already shows how problematic this boss is.

code65536

Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor (vICP)

Adernath wrote: »

The tank can simply start attacking the boss first, he gets the first aggro - as with every other boss in this game. The pinion is only there to change the aggro during the boss fight.

While it is true that the boss will attack the first attacker by default, it is not the intended way to gain aggro or to start the fight. Nor does it make much sense.

Remember, an unused pinion does damage to the group. So what do you gain by not using the pinion to start the fight? You gain the option to switch aggro before the pinion pops again. But why would you want such an option? It serves no purpose. And what do you lose by not using the pinion to start the fight? You'll now have a slightly longer period of the pinion doing damage.

Using the pinion to start the fight is the objectively correct way to do so.

Adernath wrote: »

This isn't really a dps rush

No, it's not a DPS race. But if you can do enough DPS (i.e., if the boss is held steady), you can minimize the amount of mechanics you face. Back in the days when pinion rotation outside of blue phase was required, holding the boss steady versus dragging it around the room unnecessarily was the difference between killing the boss after one blue phase or after multiple blue phases.

These days, holding the boss steady means you can kill the boss without even encountering a blue phase.

In general, if a boss can be held stationary, it should be held stationary. There's just no good reason to move the boss around outside of blue phase.

Adernath wrote: »

and more importantly: 2. because if you click the pinion in the blue phase while the boss is standing next to you, you have no time until the boss reaches you (by snare) and before the the pinion is reset so that someone else can take over. The boss should have to walk from one side of the map to the other so that other people can click the pinion before the boss can reach you.

You're not supposed to rotate the pinion immediately when blue phase starts. The pinion rotation should happen after:

1. The portals that spawn during blue phase have started spawning. This prevents the original pinion holder (typically the tank) from getting portal duty.
2. The pinion holder has had a chance to drag the boss to the wall.
3. The current holder of the pinion has been snared and requires a rotation of the pinion aggro (though this is no longer applicable as of Update 21).

If the pinion holder immediately moves to the wall as soon as blue phase starts, all three of these conditions are generally met at around the same time, and that is when the first blue phase pinion rotation should happen.

siddique

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

The Planar Inhibitor is an awesome boss. The first time I got it, it felt so awesome. Got the Out of the Frying Pan achievement too.

Not a fun boss if you are a stage 4 vampire though.

I think Mylene is a road block for many pugs because even if they learn to bash it, they usually ignore the Shock Wardens. -_-

And then obviously the next boss with her colored symbols and fat wolves.

It's amazing how so many people still don't know how to fight Grobull. -_-

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

vet Plannar Inhibitor is the benchmark even on normal difficulty.

Followed by vet Bogdan (EH2) and vet Rilis (BC2).

Those three beat to submission all "new" Vampire players to boot, who refuse to use fire glyph because it lowers their damage......

Especially Bogdan I have hilarious moments, with Vamps trying to avoid the flames by jumping off the pad and suiciding.
Seems someone forgot to tell them that ZOS hasn't implemented Vampire flying yet....

Jeremy

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

code65536 wrote: »

What is, in your opinion, the worst "PUG killer" veteran group dungeon boss in ESO, based on their launch difficulty? And why?

To clarify...

• If possible, I want people to compare the dungeon bosses as they were at launch. If you weren't around at the time that dungeon launched, what was it like the first time you experienced it?
  • For example, when considering the Planar Inhibitor, I want you to consider what it was like at launch, back when the snares stacked, back when only one person at a time could kill the portals, back when it was not practical for a tank to hold the pinion until blue phase, and back when DPS levels were not high enough to skip the blue phase.
• By "worst", I mean, "most effective at shattering the hopes and dreams of a dungeon PUG".

So, is the latest PUG Killer 9000 (aka, Vault Protector) really as bad as people make it out to be, at least compared to its predecessors?

I vote for the Planar Inhibitor. That boss has such stupid "mechanics" it still doesn't make any sense to me. Probably the dumbest fight in the game and I wish they would just delete that stupid boss, especially considering the rest of the dungeon is pretty well done.

A close second would probably be Domihaus, who can be a rough fight, especially for pugs. But at least that one is sorta fun.

SoLooney

Excluding the dlc dungeons, dark shade 2 without a doubt. Grobul, the mass add pulls before engine guardian, and engine guardian are huge pug killers.

Those 3 are huge pains without a decent group

therift

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

Rake wrote: »

Inhibitor is a joke compared to before

I found Mylene to be fairly simple when Wolfhunter dropped. My reaction when we first cleared vMHK was "That's it? We're done?" That wasn't a PuG, of course, but vMHK did not live up to the reputation, at least for me.

The Planar Inhibitor, however, was another story in 2015. It was a legendary PuG destroyer.

ShellaSunshine

Galchobhar (vBRF)

I'm honestly surprised to see that The Planar Inhibitor is everyone's worst PUG boss to fight.

I have killed this boss by myself as a Templar Tank and a Templar Healer.

There is a secret trick that I found out and that is if you have a Templar Tank, they can keep the boss extremely still by spamming Sun Shield and BoL to keep them alive during the blue phase.

No need to switch aggro and all the DDs have to do is close portals and burn boss.

Then again, the entire White Gold Tower dungeon is a joke compared to the other DLC dungeons. I can solo that entire dungeon with my healer and tank but it takes ages!

For me, Blood Root Forge is the worst to PUG because no one seems to remember or know any of the special mechanics. Like having to jump on the rocks to avoid a one shot from the axe... Cannot tell you how many times everyone died during this except for me...

therift

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

ShellaSunshine wrote: »

I'm honestly surprised to see that The Planar Inhibitor is everyone's worst PUG boss to fight.

I have killed this boss by myself as a Templar Tank and a Templar Healer.

There is a secret trick that I found out and that is if you have a Templar Tank, they can keep the boss extremely still by spamming Sun Shield and BoL to keep them alive during the blue phase.

No need to switch aggro and all the DDs have to do is close portals and burn boss.

Then again, the entire White Gold Tower dungeon is a joke compared to the other DLC dungeons. I can solo that entire dungeon with my healer and tank but it takes ages!

For me, Blood Root Forge is the worst to PUG because no one seems to remember or know any of the special mechanics. Like having to jump on the rocks to avoid a one shot from the axe... Cannot tell you how many times everyone died during this except for me...

That worked for you in 2015?

Jaimeh

In addition to all the bosses mentioned already, I would add honorable mentions for the Daedroth from CoA II and the final boss from Tempest Island. Back in the day even organized groups had trouble with the former and devised strategies of pulling him away from his area so DDs wouldn't have to deal with his aoe and adds, and the gusts in the latter are the trolliest even today. Many a tank have probably said 'heck it', and finished the fight by themselves... 84 years later Above all though, yes, the Planar Inhibitor is the meanest baddest bossiest of them all

starkerealm

Other (please specify)

code65536 wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

Banished Cells II - Rilis

@Drummerx04 posted this screenshot only about a month ago, from a Group Finder vBC2 that he was tanking: four seven Daedroths up and the boss is only at 83%.

(Edit: Apparently I needed to look at the full-sized image and count more closely.)

Wish I'd gotten a screenshot of it. I had a wonderful cluster**** of a run with guildies in there a couple months back. Two of us were running Maw of the Infernal and confusing the snot out of the tank.

starkerealm

Other (please specify)

code65536 wrote: »

A close second would probably be Domihaus, who can be a rough fight, especially for pugs. But at least that one is sorta fun.

I'm kinda surprised I needed to go to the second page to see this. Domihaus was murder on pugs pre-nerf (haven't tried him since). The transition from methodical to hard burn in execute was brutal, and I've yet to see a PUG clear it.

Silver_Strider

Other (please specify)

You want me to decide which experience with vet bosses was the most scarring?

You want me to tell you how helpless I felt when I laid on the ground of vFG2 with that ominous sword slowing falling to impale me, how traumatic it was seeing the gaping maw of 6 daedroths clawing me to death in vBC2, how spine chilling it was watching my character hoisted into the air as the life was slowly drained from me in vCoH2, or how violated I felt after being *** in Grobul's Hentai playpen in vDC2.

You want me to revisit the burn marks of vWGT, the tenderizing beat downs of vICP, being ravaged by the elements in vFRH, eaten alive by undead zoo animals in vFL, that ****** Dranos Velador, EVERYTHING IN VBRF!!!!!

You want me to decide which one was the worst? Not happening.

D0PAMINE

Other (please specify)

Dranos was pretty annoying

karekiz

The Vault Protector (vFV)

Didn't play way back, but I think the lasers might be hard for peeps. Plus low DPS makes it harsh, and if adds are ignored it can get rough. With lasers it feels different than Pre-Nerf galchoppa. There if one DPS ignored atro I can at least kill them easily, this one isn't as easy.

dazee

The first boss of Frostvault is an impossible wall for pugs on normal mode.

Tommy_The_Gun

Other (please specify)

Vote Kick

Wifeaggro13

Other (please specify)

code65536 wrote: »

What is, in your opinion, the worst "PUG killer" veteran group dungeon boss in ESO, based on their launch difficulty? And why?

To clarify...

• If possible, I want people to compare the dungeon bosses as they were at launch. If you weren't around at the time that dungeon launched, what was it like the first time you experienced it?
  • For example, when considering the Planar Inhibitor, I want you to consider what it was like at launch, back when the snares stacked, back when only one person at a time could kill the portals, back when it was not practical for a tank to hold the pinion until blue phase, and back when DPS levels were not high enough to skip the blue phase.
• By "worst", I mean, "most effective at shattering the hopes and dreams of a dungeon PUG".

So, is the latest PUG Killer 9000 (aka, Vault Protector) really as bad as people make it out to be, at least compared to its predecessors?

Lord warden ,or the spider ***

code65536

Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor (vICP)

Jaimeh wrote: »

In addition to all the bosses mentioned already, I would add honorable mentions for the Daedroth from CoA II

Before Imperial City, City of Ash II was the hardest dungeon in the game, and the daedroth was widely regarded as the hardest boss. One that many groups had to cheese to clear. It was one of those, "if you could beat this boss, you could beat the rest of the dungeon" type bosses.

But as of the writing of this particular post, Horvantud--the first option in the poll--has gotten just one vote, which really surprised me.

kylewwefan

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

Even still now.

FrancisCrawford

ShellaSunshine wrote: »

I'm honestly surprised to see that The Planar Inhibitor is everyone's worst PUG boss to fight.

I have killed this boss by myself as a Templar Tank and a Templar Healer.

There is a secret trick that I found out and that is if you have a Templar Tank, they can keep the boss extremely still by spamming Sun Shield and BoL to keep them alive during the blue phase.

No need to switch aggro and all the DDs have to do is close portals and burn boss.

Then again, the entire White Gold Tower dungeon is a joke compared to the other DLC dungeons. I can solo that entire dungeon with my healer and tank but it takes ages!

For me, Blood Root Forge is the worst to PUG because no one seems to remember or know any of the special mechanics. Like having to jump on the rocks to avoid a one shot from the axe... Cannot tell you how many times everyone died during this except for me...

It seems like it would be hard to solo the Adjudicator in WGT without a fast burn, given that she tends to reset the fight when everybody still alive is in a cage. Or does she not cage people in solo runs?

Caligamy_ESO

The worst pug run I ever had was day 2 of Falkreath Hold on Domihaus, not kidding we were in that boss room for hours.Trying to explain to people you had to hide behind the same pillars on the screams and not split up, til finally we decided to hide behind them going clockwise from the door. *ugh* Second worst was probably CoA when it was still hard.