What's the worst "PUG killer" veteran group dungeon boss?

code65536

What is, in your opinion, the worst "PUG killer" veteran group dungeon boss in ESO, based on their launch difficulty? And why?

To clarify...

• If possible, I want people to compare the dungeon bosses as they were at launch. If you weren't around at the time that dungeon launched, what was it like the first time you experienced it?
  • For example, when considering the Planar Inhibitor, I want you to consider what it was like at launch, back when the snares stacked, back when only one person at a time could kill the portals, back when it was not practical for a tank to hold the pinion until blue phase, and back when DPS levels were not high enough to skip the blue phase.
• By "worst", I mean, "most effective at shattering the hopes and dreams of a dungeon PUG".

So, is the latest PUG Killer 9000 (aka, Vault Protector) really as bad as people make it out to be, at least compared to its predecessors?

Aliyavana

The "getting qued into a DLC dungeon for your random normal" boss.

Parrot1986

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

Tough to choose between Maw or Planar but had so many bad PUG runs in WGT that takes it for me.

I can’t really compare the old with the new as pretty much never PuG the DLCs anymore.

code65536

Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor (vICP)

For me, it's gotta be Ibomez. Originally, the prisoners spawned throughout the entire encounter, instead of only when the boss was immune and not doing anything else. With the constant spawns, the much lower DPS levels back then, exacerbated by me being a relatively new player who had hit level 50 only a few months earlier, it wasn't until two months after IC's launch that I even had a chance to see what the rest of the dungeon was like on vet.

Though, I guess it really wasn't a PUG killer since no PUG in their right mind would enter ICP on vet in the first place.

ankeor

Other (please specify)

Banished Cells II - Rilis

ninibini

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

I'd still say Planar Inhibitor, but also from back in the days before DLC dungeons, I still remember Praxin (sp?) in Spindleclutch II being quite a challenge for pugs.

Flips

ankeor wrote: »

Banished Cells II - Rilis

Yes that one has trashed some pugs for me in the beginning. DLC aside..

Must add that spindleclutch I on HM is a favorite here also, roll dodge and low DPS has created the most toxic groups I've been in.

AndyMac

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

Planar because pugs would actually attempt vWGT and Planar was the wall they hit.

I didn’t mind pugging vICP because generally only people who could clear would run. It was standard to have to link the clear chevo before they’d port in

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Flips wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

Banished Cells II - Rilis

Yes that one has trashed some pugs for me in the beginning. DLC aside..

Must add that spindleclutch I on HM is a favorite here also, roll dodge and low DPS has created the most toxic groups I've been in.

As a tank, if you run both weakening and use a source of minor maim, that bosses one hit doesn't one hit.

TiZzA93

Other (please specify)

I always do random vet as my daily and theres 3 that always ended up in having multiple quitters lol the inhibitor, the soulshriven boss with lots adds and soul harvester (forget dungeon), both of those are easy now tho but the ultimate current top pug crusher to me seems to be the vmos fight where he puts out those tracker attacks, i will tell people to roll into them but no XD i probably spend at least 1hr 30m in that with lots ppl join wipe leave replace. I have yet to be put in a wrathstone pug vet.

KhajiitFelix

Other (please specify)

Orzun and Rinaerus from vSCP.

max_only

Dranos Velador

Jhalin

Xal-Nur the Slaver (vRoM)

Tbh I just have a thing against snares, and people who’d grab the spice and walk it to the inactive side

dtsharples

Other (please specify)

Darkshade Caverns 2.
If Grobul doesn't get you, the Engine guardian just might.
I think it's probably the only non-DLC dungeon that requires members to actually use tactics of some sort, you can't just stack and nuke.
Anyone who doesn't understand that Grobul reflects all damage while mobile is pretty much dead without a decent healer.
And don't forget that the mass of mobs towards the end usually bugs out and keeps re-spawning XD Still not fixed after years.

Adernath

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

Planar because so many people absolutely where overwhelmed with this simple mechanics. Starting with the tank who clicks the pinion to open the fight (still happens today), not properly tanking it away from the pinion and people who don't pay attention at all.

Vermethys

Other (please specify)

The second boss of veteran Scalecaller Peak, in my opinion -- the gargoyle with the stone orbs. It's really brutal for an unorganised group. If you've got DDs with low DPS or ones that have low situational awareness, the mechanics become rather overwhelming (from a tank's perspective).

code65536

Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor (vICP)

ankeor wrote: »

Banished Cells II - Rilis

@Drummerx04 posted this screenshot only about a month ago, from a Group Finder vBC2 that he was tanking: four seven Daedroths up and the boss is only at 83%.

(Edit: Apparently I needed to look at the full-sized image and count more closely.)

mocap

Other (please specify)

Archivist Ernarde (MHK)

So painful with absolutely ANY pug. Good DPSers constantly trying to nuke him right from the start, making life for tank and healer impossible. Bad DPSers usually suck at bubble mechanics and ground shock AoE. Bad tanks can turn around bulk wolf cone, suck damage of that cone instead of one dodge roll etc. Slowpoke healers can.... slowpoke burst heal moments when need it.

p.s.
got Alpha Predator with PUG

FrancisCrawford

Flips wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

Banished Cells II - Rilis

Yes that one has trashed some pugs for me in the beginning. DLC aside..

Must add that spindleclutch I on HM is a favorite here also, roll dodge and low DPS has created the most toxic groups I've been in.

First time I did it I died three times. The group was super-cool about it and in fact asked me to stay with them to heal the next pledge. I haven't tried it again since.

mairwen85

Undead Menagerie (vFL)

I was tempted to say Rilis because even though bc2 is an easy dungeon, I've seen many inexperienced groups fall to pieces on him... But then generally decent group dps is really all you need.

Undead menagerie is definitely one boss where a single player can wreck the team repeatedly. It's a true group boss, much like mylene mooncaller, but one where you can't easily compensate for mistakes.

SidraWillowsky

dtsharples wrote: »

Darkshade Caverns 2.
If Grobul doesn't get you, the Engine guardian just might.
I think it's probably the only non-DLC dungeon that requires members to actually use tactics of some sort, you can't just stack and nuke.
Anyone who doesn't understand that Grobul reflects all damage while mobile is pretty much dead without a decent healer.
And don't forget that the mass of mobs towards the end usually bugs out and keeps re-spawning XD Still not fixed after years.

I was going to say this one too. It may not be as hard as some of the vDLCs but many more people will queue up for vDSC II not understanding what it is. It's one of the few non-DLC dungeons that's simply game over if the DPS isn't high enough (I think that vCoA II is the other one).

I hate when it's a pledge and I have to pug because 80% of the time I get added as a replacement for a group that's stuck at either the jellyfish, the centurions, or the engine guardian, so I don't get the full credit for it.

At least the HM version of the final boss is easier than the non-HM,,,

Suddwrath

Undead Menagerie (vFL)

I'd have to say the Undead Menagerie before the nerfs to the wolves. Also, the fact that it is encountered so early in the dungeon meant that groups that couldn't beat it weren't even able to progress very far into the dungeon.

Osteos

Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor (vICP)

Ibomez without a doubt. He stopped pugs dead in their tracks. I still wouldn't pug vICP

Grandma

Other (please specify)

That one from fungal grotto 2 with the mechanic where you have to kill one of the 4 ghosts with the sword. because nobody pays attention to it, and if they do, they don't have the DPS for it. It's the part i've wiped most on as healer with pugs before i made a dps.

NordSwordnBoard

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

The curriculum of this course has changed, but I still continue to teach it.

zaria

ankeor wrote: »

Banished Cells II - Rilis

Rilis is easy, getting HM in pugs on the other hand is a bit hard. CoH2 is harder to get HM on.
In newer dlc HM and pug don't match

therift

The Planar Inhibitor (vWGT)

In addition to being a brutal boss when IC dropped, the Planar Inhibitor is the most frequently and heavily nerfed boss in the game.

Today's Planar Inhibitor is a puppy compared to the merciless terror of 2015.

Nebthet78

Other (please specify)

Since Planar has been nerfed into the ground now, I don't think that counts since it is so easy.

But I would definitely say it's most fights that require great coordination and the actual need for voice comms.

Example: Just yesterday I decided to pug vRoM, and I came in at the end of the dungeon as a healer (waited over 1hr in que) .... so they had already gotten rid of the healer at that point.. then the group went through another 3 dps.. I then understood why the hell guilds say not to bother pugging those dungeons. Not worth it.

code65536

Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor (vICP)

Adernath wrote: »

Starting with the tank who clicks the pinion to open the fight (still happens today)

That's... what you're supposed to do? Taunt doesn't work, so taking the pinion is the correct way to open the fight.

Adernath wrote: »

not properly tanking it away from the pinion

Holding the boss on the pinion (until blue phase, of course) is the correct strategy. Back when pre-blue-phase pinion rotation was required (these days, it's possible for a tank to just hold the pinion for the entire period before blue phase, but that wasn't always possible), it's best to hold the boss on or near the pinion, so that the boss stays stationary and is not moved out of ground DoTs as the pinion is rotated between players.

Of course, this requires some common sense by the people using the pinion. If the boss is doing an AoE attack at the moment the pinion pops, wait a few seconds for that to end before taking the pinion. Oblivious players recklessly potatoing in to grab the pinion (which, admittedly, is something that I've seen a lot of when I PUG vWGT) is why some people call for the boss to be held away from the pinion, but I absolutely detest that. Hold the boss on the pinion. Move her only during blue phase. There's nothing that annoys me more on Planar than someone who drags the boss away from the center of the room outside of blue phase.

FatelessLava

Other (please specify)

Definitely the planar inhibitor before the nerf if the group couldn’t nuke her. Had people several times either not understand that dps had to juggle the pin or take the pin as you ‘yell’ PIN in chat or overconfident tanks who say they can hold it then die when the DoT after is too strong before that stuff could be.

Now I would say it’s probably that one boss in DoM where the adds split. Since everything can go wrong : healer doesn’t heal the npc and adds get a shield. Dps not focusing on the real clone and more spawn up. (If you have surround sound headphones you can use his voice to help you determine the real copy. Special thanks to a guildie pointing it out.)

I love the mechanic and dungeon in general but I won’t be pugging it any time soon.

FakeFox

Other (please specify)

I haven't puged anything in like forever, but I'd expect Vykosa (vMHK) to be the worst.