Are nords overperforming?
Maintenance for the week of March 24:
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 24, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 26, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
· Playstation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 26, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 24, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
· Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 26, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
· Playstation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 26, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
-
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
But they're not lackluster in every other regard.Silver_Strider wrote: »Throw on a Frost resist glyph. Same immunity to chilled without being totally lackluster in every other regard.
If we assume Breton vs Nord, with the Breton swapping out one Spell Damage Glyph (which is what it'd be for me), the differences would be:
Nord:
+174 Spell Damage
+1,500 Stamina
+1,000 Health
+3,960 Physical/Spell resist
+Ult generation (can't really give an exact amount since it'll vary depending on what's going on at the time, but it should trigger fairly reliably in most BG fights, given the current amount of AOE and DOT spreading).
Breton:
+2,000 Magicka
+100 Magicka Recovery
+2,310 Spell Resist (up to 4,620 if hit with a negative status effect, which is only slightly above Nord's full-time Spell Resist).
+7% Magicka Cost Reduction
Given that I'm typically much more afraid of Stamina damage than I am Magicka damage, I'd take Nord's resists over Breton any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. A Nord can either have higher resists than they otherwise would, or switch out existing Protective traits on jewelry to something else (the Nord trait is worth a little more than 2x Gold Protective Jewelry at 1,844 each). And the 1,500 Stamina that Nords get isn't far behind the +Stam from Shacklebreaker, and therefore offers a bit more flexibility to Magicka builds when it comes to gear/food/drink choices.
The Breton racials are solid, especially since the cost reduction is getting a significant increase, and I don't think anyone disputes that they're better than Nords for Magicka in PvE. But when it comes to Battlegrounds in the current meta, I think there's a pretty strong argument to be made in favor of Nords.0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭@profundidob16_ESO
I wasn't running full sturdy. I run full sturdy on other tank classes, but I've found it useless on DK tank. Back to DK> My chest piece, legguards and helmet are infused, everything else sturdy, I have 2 shield play enchants, one mag. recovery. everything else is enchanted with tri-stat enchants, triune traits on the jewellery. Always tri stat food. As a result: 42k HP, 18k Mag, 21k Stam. My block cost is ~500 stam. I don't think that lower block cost is needed.
With new Imperial racials, my attributes will drop to 41k HP, 19k magicka, 22k stam. If I was to hit the cap - I would do the following: change my infused for reinforced (losing 300 of each, gaining 1200 resists), change one triune to protective (losing 450 of each, gaining 1800) and readjust the cp (appx 25 into heavy armor focus) resulting in 40k HP, 18K magicka, 21k stam.
There's other way, which might seem even more ridiculous:
Three shield play enchantments on jewellery, nirnhoned on belt and gauntlets, everything else reinforced. Only shield with sturdy trait. Resulting in 41k hp, 18k mag, 21k stam, stam block cost of 500. I would lose my magicka recovery glyph, but since we've got sweet new sustain racial - I wouldn't mind that.
Really, to hit the cap, means to accept, that you can survive with ~500 block cost.Spoiler1. Or full sturdy, one shield play, 2 mag recovery and lady mundus
2. You could play around divines and lady mundus
3. Reinforced chest, one protective, deacrease harm enchant on ring, everything else sturdy.
P.S.: Major Ward, Minor ward, Minor Resolve, Major resolve active, ebon/alkosh, 23% CP block cost reduction, absorb magic on bar. every attribute into HP.SpoilerIf I would to be nord, I would go 5/1/1, infused big items just to get the same high stats as imperial has.
very interesting and nice feedback. I happen to run the exact same setup as you on live, infused on big pieces, sturdy on the rest, in favor of keep max stats. In fact I have the exact same stats as you
On PTS what I had tested and tried earlier is basically also the exact thing as you and you described it perfect and it was there that I noticed that in the end hitting cap -in this specific scenario- as imperial compared to Nord means you have to sacrifice 2 things:
-the low block cost around 350 that I usually run with that allows you to stay in block mode longer/easier to circumvent some bugs of the game (The https://woeler.eu/eso-dragonknight-tank-build/)
-the extra dmge reduction from red cp tree where you now have to shift 25-40 points into "heavy armor"
whereas Nord allows you get the best of everything in this particular scenario without having to sacrifice anything.
BUT in the bigger scope of things I have to question if it's worth in the end to change your entire race just for those scenario's in which you wear functional monster sets without resistances on them because in all other scenario's (lord warden, chudan, ...) you would still hit the resistance cap easy as imperial and actually get slightly more bang for the buck than Nord, scenario's where the extra 4K nord resistance would be wasted in pve.
And I guess in the explicit scenario where you wear for instance stonekeeper which will give awesome sustain in permablock, amplified with imperial racial sustain passives, you might easily get away with sacrificing sustain in favor of hitting the cap on that particular gear setup.
So by being able to swap into this scenario as Imperial simply by swapping gear might still make you the best allrounder for all posssible scenario's because it allows you to swap back into e.g lord warden where as Nord the extra 4K resistances would then become useless (talking pve only)
I'll test more on PTS with the higher block cost and total result. But yeah it looks like all gear setups will more or less even themselves out.
1 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭But they're not lackluster in every other regard.
If we assume Breton vs Nord, with the Breton swapping out one Spell Damage Glyph (which is what it'd be for me), the differences would be:
Nord:
+174 Spell Damage
+1,500 Stamina
+1,000 Health
+3,960 Physical/Spell resist
+Ult generation (can't really give an exact amount since it'll vary depending on what's going on at the time, but it should trigger fairly reliably in most BG fights, given the current amount of AOE and DOT spreading).
Breton:
+2,000 Magicka
+100 Magicka Recovery
+2,310 Spell Resist (up to 4,620 if hit with a negative status effect, which is only slightly above Nord's full-time Spell Resist).
+7% Magicka Cost Reduction
Given that I'm typically much more afraid of Stamina damage than I am Magicka damage, I'd take Nord's resists over Breton any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. A Nord can either have higher resists than they otherwise would, or switch out existing Protective traits on jewelry to something else (the Nord trait is worth a little more than 2x Gold Protective Jewelry at 1,844 each). And the 1,500 Stamina that Nords get isn't far behind the +Stam from Shacklebreaker, and therefore offers a bit more flexibility to Magicka builds when it comes to gear/food/drink choices.
The Breton racials are solid, especially since the cost reduction is getting a significant increase, and I don't think anyone disputes that they're better than Nords for Magicka in PvE. But when it comes to Battlegrounds in the current meta, I think there's a pretty strong argument to be made in favor of Nords.
Breton offers flexibility by requiring less need to build for sustain, much like Nord offers it by having 1500 stamina+1k health. You might be able to drop Shacklebreaker on a Nord but what will you be replacing it with that isn't just going to be a sustain set for your magic, like Alteration Mastery, equating to pretty much nothing being fundamentally different between the 2 races.
Breton w/Shacklebreaker and 2 Protective traits
4k Magic+2k Stamina
3,688 Physical Resistance/4620 Spell Resistance (more if status effected)
229 Magic Recovery+129 Stamina Recovery
7% Magicka Cost Reduction
129 Spell Damage (Weapon damage is irrelevant)
Nord w/Alteration Mastery and 2 Arcane Traits
1500 Stamina+1k Health+1740 Magic
3960 Physical/Spell Resistance
258 Magic Recovery
833 Spell Crit
6% Cost Universal Cost Reduction
Ultimate Regen
The differences are so minute they're hardly worth mentioning, most of which can be addressed by swapping out food/glyphs/etc. The only real substantial difference is Nord's Ultimate Regen being an outliner and coupled with Alteration Mastery for cheaper Ultimates, does seem highly appealing but considering that a death in a BG can keep you out of the game from anywhere between 1-20 seconds, that Ultimate Regen decreases in value each time you die and have to wait more than 10 seconds between each resurrections, making it impossible to actually account for.
It's more flavor between the 2 than anything substantial, at least in terms of BGsArgonian forever0 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭Such a shame the Nord's Stalwart & Rugged racials can't be tied to how drunk the player is...1
-
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Don't forget that, if we assume the Breton is replacing a Spell Damage enchant with a Frost Resist one, the Nord will have an extra +174 Spell Damage. It's also possible that the Nord wouldn't need to use Alteration Mastery for sustain, depending on class, playstyle, and other gear choices.Silver_Strider wrote: »
Breton offers flexibility by requiring less need to build for sustain, much like Nord offers it by having 1500 stamina+1k health. You might be able to drop Shacklebreaker on a Nord but what will you be replacing it with that isn't just going to be a sustain set for your magic, like Alteration Mastery, equating to pretty much nothing being fundamentally different between the 2 races.
Breton w/Shacklebreaker and 2 Protective traits
4k Magic+2k Stamina
3,688 Physical Resistance/4620 Spell Resistance (more if status effected)
229 Magic Recovery+129 Stamina Recovery
7% Magicka Cost Reduction
129 Spell Damage (Weapon damage is irrelevant)
Nord w/Alteration Mastery and 2 Arcane Traits
1500 Stamina+1k Health+1740 Magic
3960 Physical/Spell Resistance
258 Magic Recovery
833 Spell Crit
6% Cost Universal Cost Reduction
Ultimate Regen
The differences are so minute they're hardly worth mentioning, most of which can be addressed by swapping out food/glyphs/etc. The only real substantial difference is Nord's Ultimate Regen being an outliner and coupled with Alteration Mastery for cheaper Ultimates, does seem highly appealing but considering that a death in a BG can keep you out of the game from anywhere between 1-20 seconds, that Ultimate Regen decreases in value each time you die and have to wait more than 10 seconds between each resurrections, making it impossible to actually account for.
It's more flavor between the 2 than anything substantial, at least in terms of BGs
While I haven't tried playing my Breton(s) without points in the current 3% cost reduction racial, it really doesn't look like a massive game changer. If one were to swap to a Nord after playing a pre-patch Breton, that's the only sustain change that they'd experience. 'Course, improving that racial up to a 7% cost reduction, along with an extra 100 Magicka Regeneration, could allow a little more flexibility for Bretons as well.
I hope that Frost Staves will remain useful in PvP, though with much less ridiculous root proc'ing than they have now. If that's the case, I think Nords and Breton would both make solid choices for Magicka builds in PvP. But if ZOS ends up nerfing Ice Staves into the ground, and makes them worthless in PvP, the Nords will lose one of their big advantages.0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't forget that, if we assume the Breton is replacing a Spell Damage enchant with a Frost Resist one, the Nord will have an extra +174 Spell Damage. It's also possible that the Nord wouldn't need to use Alteration Mastery for sustain, depending on class, playstyle, and other gear choices.
While I haven't tried playing my Breton(s) without points in the current 3% cost reduction racial, it really doesn't look like a massive game changer. If one were to swap to a Nord after playing a pre-patch Breton, that's the only sustain change that they'd experience. 'Course, improving that racial up to a 7% cost reduction, along with an extra 100 Magicka Regeneration, could allow a little more flexibility for Bretons as well.
I hope that Frost Staves will remain useful in PvP, though with much less ridiculous root proc'ing than they have now. If that's the case, I think Nords and Breton would both make solid choices for Magicka builds in PvP. But if ZOS ends up nerfing Ice Staves into the ground, and makes them worthless in PvP, the Nords will lose one of their big advantages.
Usually hammer vs chisel 🔨 but let us hope for the best.Edited by Tasear on February 16, 2019 7:09AM1 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Are they overperforming, no, admitally the racial changes are going to put them in a pretty good spot [which makes a refreshing change from being dead useless] but the lack of literally...any sustain or power... at all, but of a shame, but..whatever.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Are they overperforming, no, admitally the racial changes are going to put them in a pretty good spot [which makes a refreshing change from being dead useless] but the lack of literally...any sustain or power... at all, but of a shame, but..whatever.
I think they're relatively weaker now unless we're taking about tanking in PvE.1
