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Altmer racial passives PTS 4.3.3

Amorpho
Amorpho
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... Oh wait, there are absolutely no changes! Does it mean that we are stuck with that useless stamina return? That would mean they have effectively taken that 9% magicka regen bonus and thrown it into oblivion!

Has anyone done any dps testing between Breton and Altmer yet? I understand they hit harder, but what's the point if they can't sustain? I'd really be interested to see the results of a self-buffed 6mil test (I'm on console)
Amorpho Gaming
YouTube channel - https://youtube.com/c/AmorphoGaming

Characters
Magicka Sorcerer, Altmer - Master Crafter
Magicka Nightblade, Altmer
Magicka Templar, Altmer
Stamina Nightblade, Bosmer
Stamina Sorcerer, Orsimer
Magicka Dragonknight, Dunmer

Aldmeri Dominion - Max CP

XboxOne EU
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    There are several test parses, Altmer without sustain racials are fine and competitive as much as Bretons without additional Spell damage are.

    Every race has their own "niche" where they fit in (Altmer: raw power vs. Breton: sustain) and every race shines on different classes / fights. Magicka DPS is very close together and now after the Khajiit nerf to their crit chance (which was unnecessary btw) Altmer might be the top Magicka DPS. And even if Breton rival them, that's totally fine and healthy for the game.
    Edited by Seraphayel on February 12, 2019 9:54AM
  • JinMori
    JinMori
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    There are several test parses, Altmer without sustain racials are fine and competitive as much as Bretons without additional Spell damage are.

    Every race has their own "niche" where they fit in (Altmer: raw power vs. Breton: sustain) and every race shines on different classes / fights. Magicka DPS is very close together and now after the Khajiit nerf to their crit chance (which was unnecessary btw) Altmer might be the top Magicka DPS. And even if Breton rival them, that's totally fine and healthy for the game.

    Khajiit change is not a nerf, it's buff if you have standard crit chance, the 99% was a typo.
  • sionIV
    sionIV
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    There will most likely be a final draft.
  • Katinas
    Katinas
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    Please change it so that you restore the resource which you have the least percentage of in that current moment in time. If you are running out of Magicka but your Stamina is fine - give Magicka. If you are low on Stamina and your Magicka is higher - give Stamina.
  • Amorpho
    Amorpho
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    There are several test parses, Altmer without sustain racials are fine and competitive as much as Bretons without additional Spell damage are.

    Every race has their own "niche" where they fit in (Altmer: raw power vs. Breton: sustain) and every race shines on different classes / fights. Magicka DPS is very close together and now after the Khajiit nerf to their crit chance (which was unnecessary btw) Altmer might be the top Magicka DPS. And even if Breton rival them, that's totally fine and healthy for the game.

    Yes, I agree with you, but the dps tests I saw were prior to the changes to spell recharge. Anyone done any further tests for this patch? And I mean self-buffed tests. I would really like to see how zero racial sustain affects performance.
    Amorpho Gaming
    YouTube channel - https://youtube.com/c/AmorphoGaming

    Characters
    Magicka Sorcerer, Altmer - Master Crafter
    Magicka Nightblade, Altmer
    Magicka Templar, Altmer
    Stamina Nightblade, Bosmer
    Stamina Sorcerer, Orsimer
    Magicka Dragonknight, Dunmer

    Aldmeri Dominion - Max CP

    XboxOne EU
  • zaria
    zaria
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    JinMori wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    There are several test parses, Altmer without sustain racials are fine and competitive as much as Bretons without additional Spell damage are.

    Every race has their own "niche" where they fit in (Altmer: raw power vs. Breton: sustain) and every race shines on different classes / fights. Magicka DPS is very close together and now after the Khajiit nerf to their crit chance (which was unnecessary btw) Altmer might be the top Magicka DPS. And even if Breton rival them, that's totally fine and healthy for the game.

    Khajiit change is not a nerf, it's buff if you have standard crit chance, the 99% was a typo.
    The Khajiit one is situational, magic nerf, Templar and perhaps NB nerf, overall Stamina buff.

    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Amorpho wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    There are several test parses, Altmer without sustain racials are fine and competitive as much as Bretons without additional Spell damage are.

    Every race has their own "niche" where they fit in (Altmer: raw power vs. Breton: sustain) and every race shines on different classes / fights. Magicka DPS is very close together and now after the Khajiit nerf to their crit chance (which was unnecessary btw) Altmer might be the top Magicka DPS. And even if Breton rival them, that's totally fine and healthy for the game.

    Yes, I agree with you, but the dps tests I saw were prior to the changes to spell recharge. Anyone done any further tests for this patch? And I mean self-buffed tests. I would really like to see how zero racial sustain affects performance.

    Spell Recharge was changed last week and there have been test parses that were done after the changes. And that were the parses I was referring to were all Magicka races were doing fine.
    Edited by Seraphayel on February 12, 2019 10:19AM
  • Galarthor
    Galarthor
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    There are several test parses, Altmer without sustain racials are fine and competitive as much as Bretons without additional Spell damage are.

    Every race has their own "niche" where they fit in (Altmer: raw power vs. Breton: sustain) and every race shines on different classes / fights. Magicka DPS is very close together and now after the Khajiit nerf to their crit chance (which was unnecessary btw) Altmer might be the top Magicka DPS. And even if Breton rival them, that's totally fine and healthy for the game.

    Parses don't show you the whole picture. All they show you is the damage you deal to a stationary target that doesn't fight back. What good is a parse of 100k melee DPS when you cannot get into melee range in a fight? It also tells you nothing about survivabiltiy and movement. The fact remains that Bretons got more set bonuses worth of racial passives, which means Altmers cannot fully compensate via gear.
  • martijnlv40
    martijnlv40
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    There are several test parses, Altmer without sustain racials are fine and competitive as much as Bretons without additional Spell damage are.

    Every race has their own "niche" where they fit in (Altmer: raw power vs. Breton: sustain) and every race shines on different classes / fights. Magicka DPS is very close together and now after the Khajiit nerf to their crit chance (which was unnecessary btw) Altmer might be the top Magicka DPS. And even if Breton rival them, that's totally fine and healthy for the game.

    This is mostly true for groups where the sustain is good. When I run random dungeons I’ll have to put two recovery glyphs on if this change goes live (as a sorc). I think that’s a nerf, since my magicka pool goes down by about 1250, and I gain 50 spell damage with about the same sustain. I thought they wanted to balance around redguard and Altmer as a baseline, but with the 20% now on food, Bretons gain an extra couple of hundred magicka extra compared to anything else, because of blue food. Also, for the occasional weapon damage and breaking free I might even pick dunmer, what’s the ~200 magicka compared to that... (I’m going to change to a Breton probably) there has to change something so that dunmer and Altmer are really different, at the moment you might just change the racials completely so that you can choose what passives you get.
    I’m going to put some suggestions down here for alter (instead of current spellcharge)

    1000 penetration (baseline)
    1000 penetration and 50 magicka regeneration after using a class ability for 6 seconds. 6 second cooldown.
    5% extra enchantment potency.
    Gain 325 magicka and stamina after using a class ability. 6 second cooldown.

    I think all of these changes would be cool and make for a more interesting pick.
    For dunmer I’d change the magicka and stamina resource to 1750 (a bit more difference so that the choice matters) and give 150 spell damage to flame damage abilities.

    This gives dunmer the cool flame damage bonus back, but a bit lower magicka, and missing that bit of sustain so that the trade-off is there.

  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...
  • Galarthor
    Galarthor
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    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...

    Maybe not in PvE, but in PvP sustain is quite important as you cannot afford to spam heavy attacks on magicka builds and don't have some orbs/shard bot providing you with resources and don't have access to unlimited synergies to activate for resources!
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Galarthor wrote: »
    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...

    Maybe not in PvE, but in PvP sustain is quite important as you cannot afford to spam heavy attacks on magicka builds and don't have some orbs/shard bot providing you with resources and don't have access to unlimited synergies to activate for resources!

    Yep, and congratulations, because if you are a pvp player you just got an insane buff. Stamina regen stronk.
  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
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    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...

    That's basically said most of playerbase here need sustain, since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD. But I get what you mean, Altmer can just use recovery enchant and/or magic return wpn enchant.
    Edited by What_In_Tarnation on February 12, 2019 11:01AM
  • martijnlv40
    martijnlv40
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    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...

    Obviously, for any end game raid group you don’t. But (especially as a sorc) if you don’t play with the 1% of trial groups, you need some sustain. It’s not all about the few thousand across each server that can nuke any content. I don’t know why people don’t get that. It’s also not about the casual people, but it is about people that want to enjoy content, without being the best, including PvP. Think about it.
  • polgarah
    polgarah
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    Amorpho wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    There are several test parses, Altmer without sustain racials are fine and competitive as much as Bretons without additional Spell damage are.

    Every race has their own "niche" where they fit in (Altmer: raw power vs. Breton: sustain) and every race shines on different classes / fights. Magicka DPS is very close together and now after the Khajiit nerf to their crit chance (which was unnecessary btw) Altmer might be the top Magicka DPS. And even if Breton rival them, that's totally fine and healthy for the game.

    Yes, I agree with you, but the dps tests I saw were prior to the changes to spell recharge. Anyone done any further tests for this patch? And I mean self-buffed tests. I would really like to see how zero racial sustain affects performance.

    I did and I already said it the last week without cp boost, sustain is awful in 3M parses self sustain. Some people say altmers are fine but they never have been seen on pts xD.

    Today I'll test it with the cp boost and I do hope I can finish all my parses with some magicka, It would be an advance. But in 3 dd runs, with pugs or any content with lack of external resources it's going to be quite harder for altmers than breton and Khajiits. That's a fact.
    Edited by polgarah on February 12, 2019 11:05AM
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    ... since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD.

    And that's exactly the reason why all the hysteria is pointless. The racial changes won't impact most of the playerbase because they're not capable of reaching the numbers where it would matter.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...

    That's basically said most of playerbase here need sustain, since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD. But I get what you mean, Altmer can just use recovery enchant and/or magic return wpn enchant.

    Yeah but the point is, if you're not a top DD in a top group, who cares if the passives are *slightly* less good for you? A single regen passive isn't going to sustain your entire rotation if you don't have a good healer and tank feeding you. Racials are far from the real issue for players in that situation.
  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    ... since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD.

    And that's exactly the reason why all the hysteria is pointless. The racial changes won't impact most of the playerbase because they're not capable of reaching the numbers where it would matter.

    Well, like you said, the dps parses were really close in week 3 (altmer without sustain passive) and even in week 1 the dps parses were really close,too (altmer with sustain passive). So is there any point to take away from it? Since the difference is such minimal. Yea, look at these beautiful dps parses we just did and ignore more dynamic fights in pvp.
    Edited by What_In_Tarnation on February 12, 2019 11:09AM
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    ... since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD.

    And that's exactly the reason why all the hysteria is pointless. The racial changes won't impact most of the playerbase because they're not capable of reaching the numbers where it would matter.

    Well, like you said, the dps parses were really close in week 3 (altmer without sustain passive) and even in week 1 the dps parses werereally close (altmer with sustain passive). So is there any point to take away from it? Since the difference is such minimal. Yea, look at these beautiful we just did and ignore more dynamic fights in pvp.

    Well you mean regarding the Khajiit crit changes or what? Because nothing else changed from 4.3.2 to 4.3.3 regarding Magicka races.
    Edited by Seraphayel on February 12, 2019 11:09AM
  • martijnlv40
    martijnlv40
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    The 20% Cp bonus changed a bit, the more magicka you have, and if you can run blue food, the better you got. So Khajiit already got a little nerf, and Breton got the biggest buff. But it’s not an explicit buff.
  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
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    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...

    That's basically said most of playerbase here need sustain, since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD. But I get what you mean, Altmer can just use recovery enchant and/or magic return wpn enchant.

    Yeah but the point is, if you're not a top DD in a top group, who cares if the passives are *slightly* less good for you? A single regen passive isn't going to sustain your entire rotation if you don't have a good healer and tank feeding you. Racials are far from the real issue for players in that situation.

    So we're just ignore the whole racial passive now? You're not top DD, so racial passives should just automatically not impact you now. How convenient
  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    ... since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD.

    And that's exactly the reason why all the hysteria is pointless. The racial changes won't impact most of the playerbase because they're not capable of reaching the numbers where it would matter.

    Well, like you said, the dps parses were really close in week 3 (altmer without sustain passive) and even in week 1 the dps parses werereally close (altmer with sustain passive). So is there any point to take away from it? Since the difference is such minimal. Yea, look at these beautiful we just did and ignore more dynamic fights in pvp.

    Well you mean regarding the Khajiit crit changes or what? Because nothing else changed from 4.3.2 to 4.3.3 regarding Magicka races.

    You just ignore my whole point, they were not doing any crazy dps compared with other magicka races since week 1. thous is that the sustain nerf really necessary?
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
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    Galarthor wrote: »
    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...

    Maybe not in PvE, but in PvP sustain is quite important as you cannot afford to spam heavy attacks on magicka builds and don't have some orbs/shard bot providing you with resources and don't have access to unlimited synergies to activate for resources!

    The stam return is way better for pvp than the magica return. Unless you zerg then it doesn't matter. For small group/solo it will be a very nice thing to have.
  • martijnlv40
    martijnlv40
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    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Galarthor wrote: »
    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...

    Maybe not in PvE, but in PvP sustain is quite important as you cannot afford to spam heavy attacks on magicka builds and don't have some orbs/shard bot providing you with resources and don't have access to unlimited synergies to activate for resources!

    The stam return is way better for pvp than the magica return. Unless you zerg then it doesn't matter. For small group/solo it will be a very nice thing to have.
    That’s why you could also split it. As primairy stat sustain is also important in PvP. You cannot base your statement purely on a zerg, which is sh*t PvP.
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    ... since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD.

    And that's exactly the reason why all the hysteria is pointless. The racial changes won't impact most of the playerbase because they're not capable of reaching the numbers where it would matter.

    Well, like you said, the dps parses were really close in week 3 (altmer without sustain passive) and even in week 1 the dps parses werereally close (altmer with sustain passive). So is there any point to take away from it? Since the difference is such minimal. Yea, look at these beautiful we just did and ignore more dynamic fights in pvp.

    Well you mean regarding the Khajiit crit changes or what? Because nothing else changed from 4.3.2 to 4.3.3 regarding Magicka races.

    You just ignore my whole point, they were not doing any crazy dps compared with other magicka races since week 1. thous is that the sustain nerf really necessary?

    In the 4.3.2 parses all Magicka races were very close together. Altmer was on top in some occassions while Khajiit were pulling ahead in others. Now Khajiit were nerfed a bit and Altmer will most likely be the top Magicka DPS again - what exactly do you want more? They don't need another passive that makes their Magicka DPS better, they're already excellent in that regard.
    Edited by Seraphayel on February 12, 2019 11:20AM
  • zaria
    zaria
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    ... since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD.

    And that's exactly the reason why all the hysteria is pointless. The racial changes won't impact most of the playerbase because they're not capable of reaching the numbers where it would matter.

    Well, like you said, the dps parses were really close in week 3 (altmer without sustain passive) and even in week 1 the dps parses werereally close (altmer with sustain passive). So is there any point to take away from it? Since the difference is such minimal. Yea, look at these beautiful we just did and ignore more dynamic fights in pvp.

    Well you mean regarding the Khajiit crit changes or what? Because nothing else changed from 4.3.2 to 4.3.3 regarding Magicka races.
    The +20% resources was not in 4.3.2 because of bugs.
    Khajiit changes was an general nerf to magic builds and an buff to stamina.

    However the easiest race to compare Altmer to is Dunmer, Altmer has 125 more magic.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...

    That's basically said most of playerbase here need sustain, since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD. But I get what you mean, Altmer can just use recovery enchant and/or magic return wpn enchant.

    Yeah but the point is, if you're not a top DD in a top group, who cares if the passives are *slightly* less good for you? A single regen passive isn't going to sustain your entire rotation if you don't have a good healer and tank feeding you. Racials are far from the real issue for players in that situation.

    So we're just ignore the whole racial passive now? You're not top DD, so racial passives should just automatically not impact you now. How convenient

    Just slot a freaking recovery enchant on one of your rings ffs. If you're not hitting the high end you have way more build diversity and a whole host of options open up, because you dont have to live your life trying to min-max every tiny aspect of potential builds. So few people realize this. These changes are so inconsequential to anyone but the very top.
  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
    ✭✭✭
    You don't need sustain to top DD.

    For the 100th time...

    That's basically said most of playerbase here need sustain, since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD. But I get what you mean, Altmer can just use recovery enchant and/or magic return wpn enchant.

    Yeah but the point is, if you're not a top DD in a top group, who cares if the passives are *slightly* less good for you? A single regen passive isn't going to sustain your entire rotation if you don't have a good healer and tank feeding you. Racials are far from the real issue for players in that situation.

    So we're just ignore the whole racial passive now? You're not top DD, so racial passives should just automatically not impact you now. How convenient

    Just slot a freaking recovery enchant on one of your rings ffs. If you're not hitting the high end you have way more build diversity and a whole host of options open up, because you dont have to live your life trying to min-max every tiny aspect of potential builds. So few people realize this. These changes are so inconsequential to anyone but the very top.

    Whoa hold there. I know how to use recovery enchant and magicka return wpn enchant , thanks you anyway.

    Let's analyze your thoughts here.

    1. Top DD don't need sustain passive
    2. The rest of average players won't notice the difference

    Well, then if they give back the sustain passive, top DD won't still need it and the rest of players won't even noticed it. Then, once again, why the nerf is necessary then? No one is gonna need it. No one is gonna notice it. Then why the heck would some crybabies think they're over-performing since week 1 then?
    Edited by What_In_Tarnation on February 12, 2019 11:42AM
  • What_In_Tarnation
    What_In_Tarnation
    ✭✭✭
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    ... since we can safely assume most of players in this game are not so called top DD.

    And that's exactly the reason why all the hysteria is pointless. The racial changes won't impact most of the playerbase because they're not capable of reaching the numbers where it would matter.

    Well, like you said, the dps parses were really close in week 3 (altmer without sustain passive) and even in week 1 the dps parses werereally close (altmer with sustain passive). So is there any point to take away from it? Since the difference is such minimal. Yea, look at these beautiful we just did and ignore more dynamic fights in pvp.

    Well you mean regarding the Khajiit crit changes or what? Because nothing else changed from 4.3.2 to 4.3.3 regarding Magicka races.

    You just ignore my whole point, they were not doing any crazy dps compared with other magicka races since week 1. thous is that the sustain nerf really necessary?

    In the 4.3.2 parses all Magicka races were very close together. Altmer was on top in some occassions while Khajiit were pulling ahead in others. Now Khajiit were nerfed a bit and Altmer will most likely be the top Magicka DPS again - what exactly do you want more? They don't need another passive that makes their Magicka DPS better, they're already excellent in that regard.

    Yea, I apologized. It's my mistake, it should be week 2 that removed the altmer sustain. But you still didn't answer my question. The dps gap was really small since week 1 and the dps gap was still small in week 3. Then why the nerf since the dps is really small since the beginning. And we're only all narrow-minded here looking at these dps parses and decided "That should be nerfed" cause.. top DD. while not even give a damn about PvP and rest of average players.
    Edited by What_In_Tarnation on February 12, 2019 11:48AM
  • profundidob16_ESO
    profundidob16_ESO
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    Amorpho wrote: »
    ... Oh wait, there are absolutely no changes! Does it mean that we are stuck with that useless stamina return? That would mean they have effectively taken that 9% magicka regen bonus and thrown it into oblivion!

    Has anyone done any dps testing between Breton and Altmer yet? I understand they hit harder, but what's the point if they can't sustain? I'd really be interested to see the results of a self-buffed 6mil test (I'm on console)

    hey, look at the bright side: you'll be better in vMOS HM with all the running and dodgerolling to avoid stranglers, wolves and boss ;)
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