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Why no dev comments on Khajiit 4.3.3 changes?

Zypheran
Zypheran
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It seems to me that a lot of differing opinion is out there on what the Khajiit changes in 4.3.3 mean. I just think that the change was significant enough in approach to merit some comment from the devs as to why they moved the goal post on this one.
This would be an example of where improved communication would give the community a better sense of appreciation for the objectives that the dev team are trying to effect.
Please consider going back to the natch potes thread and adding a brief comment on these changes. It would diffuse much of the confusion arising from so many different opinions on what these changes mean for overall Khajiit dps.
Edited by Zypheran on February 12, 2019 7:45AM
I'll play the game my way and you play it your way!
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
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    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.
    Cp 1352
    Xbox-EU-AD

    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stamina Nightblade(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer crafter

    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wolfhunter-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 51.4k dps with fracture,48.5 on stamblade ww
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Sure bud.

    Pretty clear it's to remove the implicit khajiit buff that came with the shadow mundus buff. Besides that it's not intended as a buff or debuff.
  • zaria
    zaria
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    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Sure bud.

    Pretty clear it's to remove the implicit khajiit buff that came with the shadow mundus buff. Besides that it's not intended as a buff or debuff.
    Shadow and complains about Khajiit templars.

    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
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    Well even if it isn't intended it's a nerf to anything that doesn't have a 75% crit chance self buffed. Fantastic :-/
    And the only people using the shadow in pvp are gankers. This is clearly a case of nerfing something for pvp because of some stupid reason in pve. Essentially nerfing a entire race cause a mundus maby 10% of people will use is 0.X % then another race which also has a slightly better sustain. Makes totally sense :neutral: I hope ZOS isn't crazy enough to let this go live
    Cp 1352
    Xbox-EU-AD

    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stamina Nightblade(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer crafter

    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wolfhunter-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 51.4k dps with fracture,48.5 on stamblade ww
  • Blackleopardex
    Blackleopardex
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    Yeah was thinking the same, this is a huge change.
    I don't read long signatures: https://www.youtube.com/user/Blackleopardex
  • Elwendryll
    Elwendryll
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    Well even if it isn't intended it's a nerf to anything that doesn't have a 75% crit chance self buffed. Fantastic :-/
    And the only people using the shadow in pvp are gankers. This is clearly a case of nerfing something for pvp because of some stupid reason in pve. Essentially nerfing a entire race cause a mundus maby 10% of people will use is 0.X % then another race which also has a slightly better sustain. Makes totally sense :neutral: I hope ZOS isn't crazy enough to let this go live

    It was sad to see all the overreactions from altmers, it's even sadder when it comes from fellow khajiit players. It will be all fine. And khajiits are even more unique like that, because you can't get raw crit damage from sets (I mean, outside of buffs).

    Khajiit will have to change how they build, that's all.
    Edited by Elwendryll on February 12, 2019 11:30AM
    PC - EU
    "Kiz Zennrili an Zennji siir furo jer wodro"
    May Jone and Jode's light reveal your path.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Well even if it isn't intended it's a nerf to anything that doesn't have a 75% crit chance self buffed. Fantastic :-/
    And the only people using the shadow in pvp are gankers. This is clearly a case of nerfing something for pvp because of some stupid reason in pve. Essentially nerfing a entire race cause a mundus maby 10% of people will use is 0.X % then another race which also has a slightly better sustain. Makes totally sense :neutral: I hope ZOS isn't crazy enough to let this go live

    Im not even sure you know if its a nerf or not. Ive read the calculations, but still wait for an actual DPS parse with the change.
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Well actually it’s a buff in pvp but... okay.
    If This Iz Mispelld, I Totelly Mint to Due Tht.
  • Blackleopardex
    Blackleopardex
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    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Well actually it’s a buff in pvp but... okay.

    It's a buff for gankers and sniper, not for the rest of us.
    I don't read long signatures: https://www.youtube.com/user/Blackleopardex
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Well actually it’s a buff in pvp but... okay.

    It's a buff for gankers and sniper, not for the rest of us.

    No for everyone. Fights impen meta just not enough of a dmg buff on its own. Needs something to got with it like 3% crit
    If This Iz Mispelld, I Totelly Mint to Due Tht.
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
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    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Well actually it’s a buff in pvp but... okay.

    In what world? No ganking doesn't count...
    Cp 1352
    Xbox-EU-AD

    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stamina Nightblade(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer crafter

    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wolfhunter-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 51.4k dps with fracture,48.5 on stamblade ww
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
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    Well even if it isn't intended it's a nerf to anything that doesn't have a 75% crit chance self buffed. Fantastic :-/
    And the only people using the shadow in pvp are gankers. This is clearly a case of nerfing something for pvp because of some stupid reason in pve. Essentially nerfing a entire race cause a mundus maby 10% of people will use is 0.X % then another race which also has a slightly better sustain. Makes totally sense :neutral: I hope ZOS isn't crazy enough to let this go live

    Im not even sure you know if its a nerf or not. Ive read the calculations, but still wait for an actual DPS parse with the change.

    Yeah and make sure its purely self buffed no crit pots. Believe it or not trials aren't 99% of the game
    Cp 1352
    Xbox-EU-AD

    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stamina Nightblade(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer crafter

    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wolfhunter-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 51.4k dps with fracture,48.5 on stamblade ww
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Well actually it’s a buff in pvp but... okay.

    In what world? No ganking doesn't count...

    Wow I just feel like everyone quotes each other but I will say once again it fight impen and as such is a buff to everyone. Again... just needs to be buffed a little or throw like 3% crit with it.
    If This Iz Mispelld, I Totelly Mint to Due Tht.
  • Elwendryll
    Elwendryll
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    Yeah and make sure its purely self buffed no crit pots. Believe it or not trials aren't 99% of the game

    Am I weird for using crit pots in overland? I'm not rich. I just craft it.
    PC - EU
    "Kiz Zennrili an Zennji siir furo jer wodro"
    May Jone and Jode's light reveal your path.
  • Ahzek
    Ahzek
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    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Well actually it’s a buff in pvp but... okay.

    In what world? No ganking doesn't count...

    Wow I just feel like everyone quotes each other but I will say once again it fight impen and as such is a buff to everyone. Again... just needs to be buffed a little or throw like 3% crit with it.

    And for non CP PvP its pretty much useless.
    Jo'Khaljor the bestest stam sorc (out of all 3) EU.

  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    Ahzek wrote: »
    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Well actually it’s a buff in pvp but... okay.

    In what world? No ganking doesn't count...

    Wow I just feel like everyone quotes each other but I will say once again it fight impen and as such is a buff to everyone. Again... just needs to be buffed a little or throw like 3% crit with it.

    And for non CP PvP its pretty much useless.

    Where are you people learning these things at. So false.
    Is still a 10% increase to crit heals and damage and since in non cp you get less access to crit resist through cp it will definitely be more noticable there on any build.
    If This Iz Mispelld, I Totelly Mint to Due Tht.
  • Ahzek
    Ahzek
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    Ahzek wrote: »
    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Well actually it’s a buff in pvp but... okay.

    In what world? No ganking doesn't count...

    Wow I just feel like everyone quotes each other but I will say once again it fight impen and as such is a buff to everyone. Again... just needs to be buffed a little or throw like 3% crit with it.

    And for non CP PvP its pretty much useless.

    Where are you people learning these things at. So false.
    Is still a 10% increase to crit heals and damage and since in non cp you get less access to crit resist through cp it will definitely be more noticable there on any build.

    Wow 10% crit dmg increase is so useful with a base crit chance of 30% (in a medium armor build).
    Jo'Khaljor the bestest stam sorc (out of all 3) EU.

  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    It is actually because when you do crit it will be 10%
    Harder.
    If This Iz Mispelld, I Totelly Mint to Due Tht.
  • Royaji
    Royaji
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    The answer seems pretty obvious. Kajiit was too good in an organized group with high horn uptimes since crit chance only gets better with more crit damage. Changing crit chance to crit damage keeps Kajiit at roughly the same level in general but makes them benefit less from optimized raid setup since you get the most benefit from this passive if you have less critical damage.
  • Zypheran
    Zypheran
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    I just think, going back to the original point of this thread, there are so many contradictory evaluations of this change, it would have been good to have gotten a dev comment on the patch notes to know whether it was intended to raise or lower overall Khajiit DPS and in what circumstances.
    I'll play the game my way and you play it your way!
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    Royaji wrote: »
    The answer seems pretty obvious. Kajiit was too good in an organized group with high horn uptimes since crit chance only gets better with more crit damage. Changing crit chance to crit damage keeps Kajiit at roughly the same level in general but makes them benefit less from optimized raid setup since you get the most benefit from this passive if you have less critical damage.

    Pretty sure you get the most benefit stacking higher crit. Same level at stacking critical damage. Anyways I’m tired and can clearly see that people are opposed to a change that results in no nerfs at all. Can’t wait to see KAT 4.4
    Edited by Wolf_Watching on February 12, 2019 11:48AM
    If This Iz Mispelld, I Totelly Mint to Due Tht.
  • Ahzek
    Ahzek
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    Ahzek wrote: »
    From a pvp standpoint it's a terrible change I hope they revert it, otherwise rip to the few khajiit in cyrodiil.

    Well actually it’s a buff in pvp but... okay.

    In what world? No ganking doesn't count...

    Wow I just feel like everyone quotes each other but I will say once again it fight impen and as such is a buff to everyone. Again... just needs to be buffed a little or throw like 3% crit with it.

    And for non CP PvP its pretty much useless.

    Where are you people learning these things at. So false.
    Is still a 10% increase to crit heals and damage and since in non cp you get less access to crit resist through cp it will definitely be more noticable there on any build.

    Wow 10% crit dmg increase is so useful with a base crit chance of 30% (in a medium armor build).
    It is actually because when you do crit it will be 10%
    Harder.

    Do you have any idea how averages work? Sure the times you do crit are a bit more damage. However you crit about 21% times less than before (again considering a base crit % of 30%). And in non CP crit resist is by far not as abundant as in CP PvP so these 21% less (or 26% more!) crits happeneing are quite significant still. This is even more true for crit healing.

    Jo'Khaljor the bestest stam sorc (out of all 3) EU.

  • Royaji
    Royaji
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    Royaji wrote: »
    The answer seems pretty obvious. Kajiit was too good in an organized group with high horn uptimes since crit chance only gets better with more crit damage. Changing crit chance to crit damage keeps Kajiit at roughly the same level in general but makes them benefit less from optimized raid setup since you get the most benefit from this passive if you have less critical damage.

    Pretty sure you get the most benefit stacking higher crit. Same level at stacking critical damage. Anyways I’m tired and can clearly see that people are opposed to a change that results in no nerfs at all. Can’t wait to see KAT 4.4

    When you are already stacking critical damage (main focus of raid support) you will benefit more from crit chance than adding even more crit damage. That's why new passive is mostly a nerf to NB and Templar and a buff to other classes who do not have 10% crit damage passive
  • Lughlongarm
    Lughlongarm
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    Crit damage is buff for PVP dps. but a nerf to PVP healing.

    most players will run with ~2500-3000 resistance which reduce critical damage by 35%-40%. So 50% crit chance builds with no crit damage modifiers getting like ~10% damage bonus out of their crits. Sure, with CP and NB/Templar passives you will get some damage, but building for crit damage a pvp build is a struggle. Sitting on 42% crit chance + 10% cit damage as base, will result in your crits actually doing something before you apply any bonus on top of it. Not to mention opening strikes that always crit.

    Many good sets got crit chance build in, which is right now just mostly going to waste in a PVP environment, this passive with the changes to shadow, could really bring back crit builds in PVP.

    This+ the changes shadow and the changes to max stats cp scaling could result in some impressive damage spikes ,the perfect answer to proc sets builds.
  • Zypheran
    Zypheran
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    Dalsinthus wrote: »
    It’s especially perplexing because the previous week’s notes commented that khajit were in a really good place and just needed a tiny buff. This is then followed by a much bigger change with no explanation. Between this and some of the other changes (looking at you bosmer, altmer, and orc), it’s hard to understand what ZOS is doing.

    Exactly... this is why I am disappointed not to see a dev comment with the notes
    I'll play the game my way and you play it your way!
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Well even if it isn't intended it's a nerf to anything that doesn't have a 75% crit chance self buffed. Fantastic :-/
    And the only people using the shadow in pvp are gankers. This is clearly a case of nerfing something for pvp because of some stupid reason in pve. Essentially nerfing a entire race cause a mundus maby 10% of people will use is 0.X % then another race which also has a slightly better sustain. Makes totally sense :neutral: I hope ZOS isn't crazy enough to let this go live

    Im not even sure you know if its a nerf or not. Ive read the calculations, but still wait for an actual DPS parse with the change.

    Yeah and make sure its purely self buffed no crit pots. Believe it or not trials aren't 99% of the game

    If you're saying you're a pvp player... we have far less to worry about with the changes as it is. PVP builds dont need to confirm to a meta, or push an exrtra 2k dps, they just need to survive and kick ass.
  • ezio45
    ezio45
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    Why no Dev comments on why highelf is just an interior darkelf.....
  • zaria
    zaria
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    ezio45 wrote: »
    Why no Dev comments on why highelf is just an interior darkelf.....
    Altmer has 125 more magic :)
    And yes this explains why they removed the old passive.
    No it does not explain Orcs.

    But yes having some more useful passive than stamina regen makes sense, resistance, heal on high health loss
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
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