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ZOS make Crown trade scam proof

BrokenString
BrokenString
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We all know that a lot of people get scammed and the support have to deal with it. I always bought crowns with gold from a friend because he has a surplus and I would never buy from someone else.

I sugest that zos implement a way to trade crowns in the trade window, like when you sell/buy an item with gold, where both parties can see the currency and confirm the exchange. That would make the trade safe. Also one less thing that ZOS would have to deal with.
  • BrokenString
    BrokenString
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    I came to this game from wow and I agree that the tokens are not bad. But it has a "fixed" price, you cannot negotiate. I would prefer a trade system like the one we have in the game, but with crowns
    Edited by BrokenString on February 12, 2019 4:32AM
  • BrokenString
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    ZOS specifically allows players to trade Crown Store Gifts in exchange for gold. They also will deal with scams, providing the player has evidence.

    In short, its officially not just for actual gifts.

    Therefore, since ZOS supports the trading, its just common sense that they should seek to minimize the risk to players and the work for Support with an actual trading UI. (Except they didn't, for reasons that undoubtedly seemed good to them.)

    Could not have said better myself. ZOS knows people trade, that players want to do this and they allow it. But at the current state of things it's not good for anybody, not for the customers and not for the company.

    The whole point of this thread is so that they see this and do something about it. ZOS have proved again and again that they listen and improve their product upon feedback. This would not upset anyone and would improve interactions between players in game.
  • Cpt_Teemo
    Cpt_Teemo
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Or you could use gifting for what it's for: Gifting.

    Then you don't have to worry about being scammed.

    ZOS specifically allows players to trade Crown Store Gifts in exchange for gold. They also will deal with scams, providing the player has evidence.

    In short, its officially not just for actual gifts.

    Therefore, since ZOS supports the trading, its just common sense that they should seek to minimize the risk to players and the work for Support with an actual trading UI. (Except they didn't, for reasons that undoubtedly seemed good to them.)

    Yeah. A UI update allowing for a CoD when a gift is accepted wouldnt be unreasonable.

    Would love as well have it on a 3 day timer or something and if the item isn't bought using CoD the crowns go back into your balance
  • SiAScORCH
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    Well to be fair they have TCE that handles buying and selling crowns and have never had any issues. The real fact is that people are trying to buy cheap and end up getting scammed. I often sell crowns on PC NA, but I normally do it for guild mates.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    Community Ambassador
    Cpt_Teemo wrote: »
    They should have just went the WoW way of letting people buy ESO tokens for 20$ each and selling them in game for gold, either use for a month sub without the 1500 crowns or 1500 crowns
    Agreed, this is the same system EVE Online used with its PLEX.

    Have an item which can be redeemed for Crowns/Sub so players buy and sell an item on the market rather than trade on hope.

    That or we need 3rd party traders like Chribba.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    :: Unofficial Forums FAQ :: MissBizz ESO Guides :: AlcastHQ Guides :: Tamriel Foundry Forums :: UESP ESO Page :: ESO Sets :: Woeler Tank Guides :: ESO Community Discord ::
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • richo262
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    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457185/support-gifting-crown-items-subs-chapters/p1

    Here is a thread where we discussed a system for trading, and the value of being able to trade gold for Chapters / ESO Subs.

    I think it is needed, ZOS will make more money, and they will destroy the gold farming bots.
  • Uryel
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    We suggested this on the PTS before Gifting was implemented. For whatever reason, ZOS chose not to despite later clarifying that trading Crown Gifts for Gold is allowed.

    The reason is probably "we know better, shut up and give us our money".

    Guild Wars 2 has had a built-in interface for trading real life currency against gold since launch, and they even take a commission from every exchange. Here is an idea, ZOS : people pay for crown, and then you get some more money when they sell it to other players. You get money twice for the same thing, isn't that a wonderful idea ?
    max_only wrote: »
    Bosmers sneaking past all the dangers in the woods. Come upon a cultist doing a ritual? Sneak past. Come upon a brigand ambush? Sneak past. Come upon a mighty beast? Sneak past. The feeling of “yesssss” when you can squeeze by in tight spaces unnoticed. Sometimes I’m able to take what I need from right under their noses.
  • Royaji
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    Just because something is not prohibited does not mean it is encouraged or supported. It is indeed a gifting system and if you want to utilize it a as a way to trade gold for crowns you are doing it at your own risk and your own responsibility. It is not its intended use.
  • Kulvar
    Kulvar
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    Warframe let you trade their eshop currency between players like any other item.
    Coward Argonian scholar of the Ebonheart Pact
  • Royaji
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    Kulvar wrote: »
    Warframe let you trade their eshop currency between players like any other item.

    Warframe is a F2P game with some of the basic features completely locked behind e-shop purchases. Don't get me wrong, it's a game I like but it has a very different monetisation system and a very different in-game economy since plat is actually the only currency people use to trade.
  • Skwor
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    Royaji wrote: »
    Just because something is not prohibited does not mean it is encouraged or supported. It is indeed a gifting system and if you want to utilize it a as a way to trade gold for crowns you are doing it at your own risk and your own responsibility. It is not its intended use.

    Actually it is encouraged. Regardless Zen should probaby get ahead of this. Given they directly benifit from the game sales and have absolute authority over the transactions there is a real legal liability they are risking.

    Please do not think I am one of those "sue" on the internet types, I am far from it and actually have taken those to task who are. All I am saying is this is one of those times where a legal issue could be a real possibility.
    Edited by Skwor on February 12, 2019 11:56AM
  • Royaji
    Royaji
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Royaji wrote: »
    Just because something is not prohibited does not mean it is encouraged or supported. It is indeed a gifting system and if you want to utilize it a as a way to trade gold for crowns you are doing it at your own risk and your own responsibility. It is not its intended use.

    Actually it is encouraged. Regardless Zen should probaby get ahead of this. Given they directly benifit from the game sales and have absolute authority over the transactions there is a real legal liability they are risking.

    Please do not think I am one of those "sue" on the internet types, I am far from it and actually have taken those to task who are. All I am saying is this is one of those times where a legal issue could be a real possibility.

    Show me how ZOS encourages crown for gold trades? They are pretty safe because there is no actual transaction when you are selling crowns. It is two entirely separate actions. Gifting an item from crown store and giving some gold to someone. It all falls under "trade for promises" category and they bear no responsibility for such things. Sometimes they are nice and will refund you your gold if you get scammed but it is once again just a gesture of good will.
  • DBZVelena
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    Uryel wrote: »
    We suggested this on the PTS before Gifting was implemented. For whatever reason, ZOS chose not to despite later clarifying that trading Crown Gifts for Gold is allowed.

    The reason is probably "we know better, shut up and give us our money".

    Guild Wars 2 has had a built-in interface for trading real life currency against gold since launch, and they even take a commission from every exchange. Here is an idea, ZOS : people pay for crown, and then you get some more money when they sell it to other players. You get money twice for the same thing, isn't that a wonderful idea ?

    Not how it works.

    GW2's version has a build in gold sink. This is so you can't speculate on the shifting cost of their gems.

    So how it could work for ESO like this:

    Player A buys crowns with money.
    Player A exchanges crowns for in game gold. say 100 crowns for 100.000 gold*
    Player B buys crows with gold. Buys 100 crowns for 120.000 gold.
    ZoS makes 20.000 gold go poof in the gold-sink**.

    * Not actual current crown value. used as example number.
    * * A Gold sink is something that combats a games economy from getting flooded with gold, thus making gold it self less valuable. ESO has some great gold sinks like the traders you have to bid on every week and the waypoints.
    Edited by DBZVelena on February 12, 2019 12:14PM
    What are Natch Potes? Can you eat those?
    I believe in Genie-Gina.
  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    Royaji wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Royaji wrote: »
    Just because something is not prohibited does not mean it is encouraged or supported. It is indeed a gifting system and if you want to utilize it a as a way to trade gold for crowns you are doing it at your own risk and your own responsibility. It is not its intended use.

    Actually it is encouraged. Regardless Zen should probaby get ahead of this. Given they directly benifit from the game sales and have absolute authority over the transactions there is a real legal liability they are risking.

    Please do not think I am one of those "sue" on the internet types, I am far from it and actually have taken those to task who are. All I am saying is this is one of those times where a legal issue could be a real possibility.

    Show me how ZOS encourages crown for gold trades? They are pretty safe because there is no actual transaction when you are selling crowns. It is two entirely separate actions. Gifting an item from crown store and giving some gold to someone. It all falls under "trade for promises" category and they bear no responsibility for such things. Sometimes they are nice and will refund you your gold if you get scammed but it is once again just a gesture of good will.

    They are the direct benificiary of the purchase of the crowns. They also control all aspects of the crown transaction with the exeption of the intent of those involved in the trade. Zen even controls the medium the crowns are traded in. Legally it would be uncontested that Zen has an interest in seeing crwons sold and scams could encourage more sales overall, thus possibly creating a contradictory interest on Zen part.

    In matters of the law Zen could be shown as liable, typically the law would assume the party recieving the benifit which also exercises control of the process coukd be considered to have sone responsibility.
  • Royaji
    Royaji
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Royaji wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Royaji wrote: »
    Just because something is not prohibited does not mean it is encouraged or supported. It is indeed a gifting system and if you want to utilize it a as a way to trade gold for crowns you are doing it at your own risk and your own responsibility. It is not its intended use.

    Actually it is encouraged. Regardless Zen should probaby get ahead of this. Given they directly benifit from the game sales and have absolute authority over the transactions there is a real legal liability they are risking.

    Please do not think I am one of those "sue" on the internet types, I am far from it and actually have taken those to task who are. All I am saying is this is one of those times where a legal issue could be a real possibility.

    Show me how ZOS encourages crown for gold trades? They are pretty safe because there is no actual transaction when you are selling crowns. It is two entirely separate actions. Gifting an item from crown store and giving some gold to someone. It all falls under "trade for promises" category and they bear no responsibility for such things. Sometimes they are nice and will refund you your gold if you get scammed but it is once again just a gesture of good will.

    They are the direct benificiary of the purchase of the crowns. They also control all aspects of the crown transaction with the exeption of the intent of those involved in the trade. Zen even controls the medium the crowns are traded in. Legally it would be uncontested that Zen has an interest in seeing crwons sold and scams could encourage more sales overall, thus possibly creating a contradictory interest on Zen part.

    In matters of the law Zen could be shown as liable, typically the law would assume the party recieving the benifit which also exercises control of the process coukd be considered to have sone responsibility.

    You can not be brought to court for a in-game currency transaction, that's absurd. And ZOS made it clear that both crowns and gold are considered in-game currencies. And even if someone were to try something like that pretty sure that corporate lawyers equipped with ToS will quickly close the case.
  • NoTimeToWait
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Or you could use gifting for what it's for: Gifting.

    Then you don't have to worry about being scammed.

    We are not talking about gifts, we are talking about currency exchange. Think before you speak.

    There are multiple ways to reduce the risks associated with crown trading to negligible levels. Trading with well-known friends is one option. The other one is to use a guild master that both parties can trust as a broker. Another option is to use established brokerage services that exist on some servers. If you can't manage in-game risks, buy crowns with your money, not gold.

    I find currently existing system more interesting one and less buggy than any possible solution ZOS could come up with in couple of month. I think we need more QoL updates, but hopefully not crown-related.
  • BrokenString
    BrokenString
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Or you could use gifting for what it's for: Gifting.

    Then you don't have to worry about being scammed.

    We are not talking about gifts, we are talking about currency exchange. Think before you speak.

    There are multiple ways to reduce the risks associated with crown trading to negligible levels. Trading with well-known friends is one option. The other one is to use a guild master that both parties can trust as a broker. Another option is to use established brokerage services that exist on some servers. If you can't manage in-game risks, buy crowns with your money, not gold.

    I find currently existing system more interesting one and less buggy than any possible solution ZOS could come up with in couple of month. I think we need more QoL updates, but hopefully not crown-related.

    Please stop making excuses for a company that you dont even work for. It is people like you that halt and delay new and useful features. I'm talking about this:

    "If you can't manage in-game risks, buy crowns with your money, not gold."

    Oh yeah lets all of us take unecessary risks wich could be avoided with a simple trade system or tweaks in the existing one, get scammed and spend hours crying for the support give us the gold back until they finaly do it just to stop wasting time.

    Just get out.
  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    Royaji wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Royaji wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Royaji wrote: »
    Just because something is not prohibited does not mean it is encouraged or supported. It is indeed a gifting system and if you want to utilize it a as a way to trade gold for crowns you are doing it at your own risk and your own responsibility. It is not its intended use.

    Actually it is encouraged. Regardless Zen should probaby get ahead of this. Given they directly benifit from the game sales and have absolute authority over the transactions there is a real legal liability they are risking.

    Please do not think I am one of those "sue" on the internet types, I am far from it and actually have taken those to task who are. All I am saying is this is one of those times where a legal issue could be a real possibility.

    Show me how ZOS encourages crown for gold trades? They are pretty safe because there is no actual transaction when you are selling crowns. It is two entirely separate actions. Gifting an item from crown store and giving some gold to someone. It all falls under "trade for promises" category and they bear no responsibility for such things. Sometimes they are nice and will refund you your gold if you get scammed but it is once again just a gesture of good will.

    They are the direct benificiary of the purchase of the crowns. They also control all aspects of the crown transaction with the exeption of the intent of those involved in the trade. Zen even controls the medium the crowns are traded in. Legally it would be uncontested that Zen has an interest in seeing crwons sold and scams could encourage more sales overall, thus possibly creating a contradictory interest on Zen part.

    In matters of the law Zen could be shown as liable, typically the law would assume the party recieving the benifit which also exercises control of the process coukd be considered to have sone responsibility.

    You can not be brought to court for a in-game currency transaction, that's absurd. And ZOS made it clear that both crowns and gold are considered in-game currencies. And even if someone were to try something like that pretty sure that corporate lawyers equipped with ToS will quickly close the case.

    I do not write nor interpret the law. Yes though Zen could be found to have a responsiblity to do more to prevent scamming people with a system they control and they earn a profit from.

    Try a simple analogy, in some US States a bar can be found liable for allowing a person who has drunk to much at their establishment who then drives and hurts another. This is similiar to what Zen could be liable for with those scams.

    As I said I do not make the rules, but those are the rules. I also think it is silly and unlikely however in this case it is plausible.
    Edited by Skwor on February 12, 2019 1:39PM
  • Michae
    Michae
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    What is the exchange rate on crowns to gold anyway?
  • BrokenString
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    Michae wrote: »
    What is the exchange rate on crowns to gold anyway?

    I've seen 150 x 1 to 200 x 1. Some people may ask a bit more, some a bit less. Last time I bought at 150 x 1 since the seller is a good friend of mine.
  • NoTimeToWait
    NoTimeToWait
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Or you could use gifting for what it's for: Gifting.

    Then you don't have to worry about being scammed.

    We are not talking about gifts, we are talking about currency exchange. Think before you speak.

    There are multiple ways to reduce the risks associated with crown trading to negligible levels. Trading with well-known friends is one option. The other one is to use a guild master that both parties can trust as a broker. Another option is to use established brokerage services that exist on some servers. If you can't manage in-game risks, buy crowns with your money, not gold.

    I find currently existing system more interesting one and less buggy than any possible solution ZOS could come up with in couple of month. I think we need more QoL updates, but hopefully not crown-related.

    Please stop making excuses for a company that you dont even work for. It is people like you that halt and delay new and useful features. I'm talking about this:

    "If you can't manage in-game risks, buy crowns with your money, not gold."

    Oh yeah lets all of us take unecessary risks wich could be avoided with a simple trade system or tweaks in the existing one, get scammed and spend hours crying for the support give us the gold back until they finaly do it just to stop wasting time.

    Just get out.

    Yes. The point is useful. If we came to this, there are lots of things that would be useful for more than couple percent of players that trade crowns. Like better dungeon finder tools or better inventory management UI or many other things that people asked here.

    "A simple trade system" is not what comes to mind when you describe in-game trading system involving real money transactions (even real money equivalent). Don't be delusional. Because such systems usually come with customer support, refund system, integrity guarantees and many other things that you didn't have time to think of to actually consider how much effort this might require
    Edited by NoTimeToWait on February 12, 2019 2:07PM
  • yodased
    yodased
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    Labels matter and if they keep it ambiguous they can still help you without getting into the legal zone of declaring a currency exchange rate within the game.

    As soon as they put a hard value on the exchange, it no longer becomes a gift and it becomes a transaction and they have a different set of rules and revenue to follow.

    Call it a gift, but allow the same functions without oversight or official regulations and everyone except those that get scammed win.

    Keep the scamming below X % and all is well.
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • jircris11
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    Cpt_Teemo wrote: »
    They should have just went the WoW way of letting people buy ESO tokens for 20$ each and selling them in game for gold, either use for a month sub without the 1500 crowns or 1500 crowns

    Or just go gw2 path gold to crowns and crowns to gold
    IGN: Ki'rah
    Khajiit/Vampire
    DC/AD faction/NA server.
    RPer
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