Khajiit passives started out good in patch 4.3.0, patch 4.3.3 however...

zaria

LiquidPony wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

The only reason they removed crit chance was shadow buff. BRING BACK CRIT CHANCE. REVERT SHADOW.
with another set up you could parse using shadow on stam and still have 82.8% crit, with similar outcome from mag with only the mundus change.. that said the over preform vs OTHER races was not much if at all and was not every time. most of the data i seen had 1 single parse out of 10 or 20 that put them 500-800 above avg of some races END OF THE WORLD lets do some sweeping changes.

It's not a "sweeping change." It is a minor change.

Stop overreacting.

Unlike dropping some values a little like 4.3.0-4.3.2 changes or increasing crit damage with 10% who is somthing none will notice you will feel the crit reduction, double with sets or abilities who need crit for work.
As its pretty obvious its shadow change who was main reason this was an pointless change I have never seen any ask for.

Wolfahm

I understand it perfectly. I also understand years of raid parses.. solo parses and build set ups/testing. carry on forum warriors.

spiralvin

I like this crit damage and crit healing better. Gives it a unique racial flavor which is not too strong. Instead of that 8% spell crit which make them top magblades and magplars over Altmer and Breton, who have no other choice than Magicka builds.

LiquidPony

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@LiquidPony , 1-2% dps is the difference between top (for given damage spec) races and underdog races the forthcoming patch, so yes, it's a big difference. And you know what, it's absolutely hypocritical to say "so what, khajiit is better than on live" without mentioning that most races are better than on live - it's the scale of buff that matters. If it's nothing for you personally, then save your breath, stand aside and let people fight for their 0.6%.

You're not even responding to what I said.

I said that the difference between "building for crit" (e.g., running AY) and not "building for crit", with the new Khajiit passive, might result in 1-2% DPS difference.

The new passive is not a nerf across the board.

Pulling up some old stamden raid parses ...

73.7k DPS, 71.7% mean crit chance, 89.2% mean crit modifier

8% crit chance = 1 + (0.08 * 0.892) / (1 + 0.717 * 0.892) = 4.35%
10% crit damage = 1 + (0.1 * 0.717) / (1 + 0.717 * 0.892) = 4.37%

Hence, the new bonus would've been a miniscule buff on that parse.

Here's another:

89.3k DPS (total), 76.7% mean crit chance, 88.2% mean crit modifier

8% crit chance = 1 + (0.08 * 0.882) / (1 + 0.767 * 0.882) = 4.20%
10% crit damage = 1 + (0.1 * 0.767) / (1 + 0.767 * 0.882) = 4.57%

So again, a small buff from the new passive.

Now here's one where I'm not running AY (Rakkhat HM as a front kiter where I use Briarheart because I lose too many AY stacks while kiting):

72.6k DPS, 67.7% mean crit chance, 88.1% mean crit modifier

8% crit chance = 1 + (0.08 * 0.881) / (1 + 0.677 * 0.881) = 4.41%
10% crit damage = 1 + (0.1 * 0.677) / (1 + 0.677 * 0.881) = 4.24%

So without AY, I get a 0.17% smaller buff from the new passive than I would've the old one.

The idea that you "have to" run AY is not really true. It's optimal, but the difference in a lot of cases is so small that you'll never be able to actually tell the difference ... that 0.17% difference on a parse with ~65k worth of critable damage is 110.5 DPS.

And it's not "nothing" for me, personally. I think it's a sensible change in that it slightly nerfs most Khajiit magicka builds (especially magplars and magblades) and slightly buffs Khajiit stamsorcs/stamDKs/stamdens running a meta setup, and I think both of those outcomes are desirable.

Jhalin

spiralvin wrote: »

I like this crit damage and crit healing better. Gives it a unique racial flavor which is not too strong. Instead of that 8% spell crit which make them top magblades and magplars over Altmer and Breton, who have no other choice than Magicka builds.

Altmer still need their sustai back, with directly increases their capability to maintain dps. Khajiit were and are now even more at the mercy of RNG on top of their mediocre sustain than they were before, and losing spell crit which is so hard to come by on mag builds will put them under the other races.

Breton as they currently stand will outdo both because 99% of the time you aren’t going to get the perfect sustain support required for either to hit higher than Breton.

Khajiit benefit less from Warhorn on 4.3.3 than anyone else, they require at least 75% crit to break even with these changes when they weren’t even overperforming in stam or mag.

Juhasow

Edziu wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Oh look, a bunch of claims made without any testing, and predicated on spurious assumptions about how combat works.

Never seen a thread like this before.

I dont need tests to see as my no needed to be meta build is getting nerfed to hell as now I have 60% crit and what I will have with this change? full 52% WOAH! WHAT A BUFF! really I would make 100% use of my new passive now sitting at 52% crit chance while not having summerset for meta gear!

yes, and 52% of your attacks now do an additional 10% damage on top of all the other crit damage buffs. Or did you willfully ignore that?

yes, only my 52% of my attacks where if you could se in different topisc some players was mentiong 250 spell/weapon dmg buff from race is doing more dmg in crit strike than this 10% of crit dmg buff with not to mention to this this 250 spell/weapon dmg will also boost your noncrit attacks

conclusions?

My conclusion is that people are also claiming earth is flat and have even some evidences on that. Does that means earth is flat ? Evidence taken out of context is not reliable evidence.Making t"tests" where Your weapon dmg is far from final results You'll be getting and Your crit dmg in close to what You're getting as final result makes "testing" rigged plus people forgot 10% crit dmg works also on enchantments/poisons when wep dmg doesnt.

Juhasow

Edziu wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Cloudless wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Zos seems like they're throwing numbers around...

Really? Are you blaming them when there are loads of threads, made by players, that can be summed up with "booh friggin' hoo, my Altmer isn't the best thing ever anymore and I blame ZOS for making the damn furries overpowered so they can sell more copies of Elsweyr"?
Given those premises, these changes were inevitable. Once again, the vocal minority does what it does best.

Oh yeah, I am blaming them. They're a company, so i expect them to be at least professional in their decisions.

If general motors would listen to every absurd claim and whine they get, we most likely would have donkey pulled cars with square wheels.

There are actual testing proving the 10% crit dmg results in less crit damage than 250 ish weapon dmg from other races, and that they could have tested before throwing this random 10% value

You do realize that the same "testing" would prove that 8% crit chance gives less dmg increase then 250ish weapon damage ? Thing is ZoS did math but You and many others didnt and preffer to come to conversation without any background knowledge or just with results from extremly unreliable "tests".

but this 8% bonus crit chance is enough to recompensante lower damage in sets setup with no need to stack for crit chance only so nicer build diversity wich will gone with this change

Can You show some math saying it's enough or You just made a claim purely theoritical without even giving it any reliable testing ? Stop making claims out of Your head since in most of them You're failing and when we're talking about math where differences wil be ~1% You either do testing and show results or say nothing. Also nobody is forcing You to play specific setup it's Your choice and by choosing it You should accept You can loose some damage to BiS setup. If You optimize Your setup knowing it'll be behind of what You could potentially get with other setup then it's on You not on developer since hundereds of sets cannot be balanced to give excatly the same DPS in any combo possible. ZoS wanted to make shadow mundus more usefull since it was underwhelming since very long time for every race not only khajit and by doing so they made khajit too effective for both magicka and stamina setups. If khajit would be best race for both magicka and stamina DD as hybrid race that would be broken so current change balances it out perfectly while barely taking anything away from general strenght of khajit. They could just straight forward lower 8% crit chance to 6% to stop khajits from being too strong with new shadow mundus but they've did way smarter move.

Edziu

so on shorcut @Juhasow go I good get it as build with 50% crit change with high crit damage will be really good, or have atleast sense to target for crit damage?

EDIT: maybe this is not good point to say as someone is forcing me to play specific setup...but and content and with it an people mentality to target for insnae dps numbers to deals much faster and easier with boss is forcing me to aim to BiS gear which is most efficent to do it if I want to play harder content with good players who are able to do this as less exp or casual players are mostly unable to do most of hardest vet content at all