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Khajiit passives started out good in patch 4.3.0, patch 4.3.3 however...

Finedaible
Finedaible
✭✭✭
Regarding patch 4.3.3:
"Feline Ambush: Reworked the 8% Spell and Weapon Critical Strike Chance to 10% Critical Damage and Critical Healing."

I do not like this change to Khajiit at all. Khajiit were the only ones who could get semi-reliable crit setups, and are now subject to more RNG shenanigans for their DPS and healing with this change. More crit dmg and healing is nice, but it's very volatile, and not as reliable as the buff to crit chance was. It is very hard to get critical chance increase in this game without gimping your build. This change also further shoehorns Khajiit into the two obvious classes, Nightblade and Templar, which is not a healthy thing for diversity. Just give Khajiit the passives from patch 4.3.2, but take their health recovery away, and buff stam/magicka recovery and leave it at that.
  • Cloudless
    Cloudless
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Onebitsoul wrote: »
    Cloudless wrote: »
    Zos seems like they're throwing numbers around...

    Really? Are you blaming them when there are loads of threads, made by players, that can be summed up with "booh friggin' hoo, my Altmer isn't the best thing ever anymore and I blame ZOS for making the damn furries overpowered so they can sell more copies of Elsweyr"?
    Given those premises, these changes were inevitable. Once again, the vocal minority does what it does best.

    You were one of the posters trolling Altmer players after they were nerfed.

    I don't normally like it when ZOS nerfs things (we just wanted them to revert the Altmer nerfs), but in this case, I'm kind of enjoying watching posters like you crying now.

    You've gone from "Hahaha, Altmer deserve to be nerfed!!! Stop crying" to "WTF ZOS why did you nerf Khajiit" in the span of a week. Karma is a ***.

    Disagreeing with you isn't trolling.

    It is to that guy, I'm afraid.

    [actually went back to my old messages to check if anything sounded like trolling and, holy crap, turns out I even mentioned I have and play Altmer alts. Apparently telling him to keep the topic of Lawrence Schick leaving out of his conspiracy threads counts as trolling. Which, by now, shouldn't really surprise me as much as it does.]
    Edited by Cloudless on February 12, 2019 1:58AM
  • Edziu
    Edziu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    LiquidPony wrote: »
    Critical Chance can be increased by Major and Minor Prophecy and Savagery, light armor passives, medium armor passives, class passives, CP passives, and about 100 different sets in the game.

    where only maybe 2 sets are worth using because rest is joke like most of any sets and forcing players even more to use these sets because of now missing crit chance on khajiit

    now on live we can use other sets which we like and it is diversity between these builds which will be lost
    Edited by Edziu on February 12, 2019 1:55AM
    Pro Xp Waster Jaszcz - Khajiit stamina NB, DC EU PC 40AR -main char(no meta cancer build except monster set but its changing situationally)
    Lubisz to Suko - radiantspam repentanting T-bagging Cancerplar (obsolete, retired)
    Bury Zenek - master race Dunmer magdk tonk/dd, argonian slaver (obselote, retired)
    Twin Grakata - stamplar for fun after got sick of NB's meta(Blackrose Executioner)
    1.1k+CP on PC EU [] 28000+ Achievement points [] 2900+ Lorebuks doesnt care anymore about this as stopped play main char (pissed off gathering same achievs again and again...)
    370CP on PC NA (stamplar and stamablade lvled)
    retired from eso since morrowind, back after half of year for short time and again retired after summerset, back with cwc event idk for how long
    DD should gather red circles as many as can
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Edziu wrote: »
    LiquidPony wrote: »
    Critical Chance can be increased by Major and Minor Prophecy and Savagery, light armor passives, medium armor passives, class passives, CP passives, and about 100 different sets in the game.

    where only maybe 2 sets are worth using because rest is joke like most of any sets

    Many, many sets have critical bonuses. BSW, Julianos, Hunding's, VO, TFS, Scathing, Relequen, Ravager, Veiled Heritance, Briarheart, NMG, Deadly Strike, etc.

    I'm not just talking about AY, MS, and Leviathan.
  • Cloudless
    Cloudless
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Onebitsoul wrote: »
    Cloudless wrote: »
    Zos seems like they're throwing numbers around...

    Really? Are you blaming them when there are loads of threads, made by players, that can be summed up with "booh friggin' hoo, my Altmer isn't the best thing ever anymore and I blame ZOS for making the damn furries overpowered so they can sell more copies of Elsweyr"?
    Given those premises, these changes were inevitable. Once again, the vocal minority does what it does best.

    You were one of the posters trolling Altmer players after they were nerfed.

    I don't normally like it when ZOS nerfs things (we just wanted them to revert the Altmer nerfs), but in this case, I'm kind of enjoying watching posters like you crying now.

    You've gone from "Hahaha, Altmer deserve to be nerfed!!! Stop crying" to "WTF ZOS why did you nerf Khajiit" in the span of a week. Karma is a ***.

    Disagreeing with you isn't trolling.

    Disagreeing without providing any actual argument is trolling.

    Comments like "suck it up, Altmer were meta for 5 years" is trolling.

    Nobody ever pointed out (objectively) why the Altmer nerf made sense. It was simply statements in favour of it because they wanted Khajiit to be the new meta race. It was childish.

    A comment whiiich... I never made? Really, you're just embarrassing yourself now.
  • Edziu
    Edziu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    LiquidPony wrote: »
    Edziu wrote: »
    LiquidPony wrote: »
    Critical Chance can be increased by Major and Minor Prophecy and Savagery, light armor passives, medium armor passives, class passives, CP passives, and about 100 different sets in the game.

    where only maybe 2 sets are worth using because rest is joke like most of any sets

    Many, many sets have critical bonuses. BSW, Julianos, Hunding's, VO, TFS, Scathing, Relequen, Ravager, Veiled Heritance, Briarheart, NMG, Deadly Strike, etc.

    I'm not just talking about AY, MS, and Leviathan.

    well what I was meaning...more as sets with high crit bonus for all 5 pieces as at all most usable sets have these small 1-2 crit bonuses and there are not enough to catch missing crit chance from khajiit, we need set with high crit bonus for 5 parts
    Pro Xp Waster Jaszcz - Khajiit stamina NB, DC EU PC 40AR -main char(no meta cancer build except monster set but its changing situationally)
    Lubisz to Suko - radiantspam repentanting T-bagging Cancerplar (obsolete, retired)
    Bury Zenek - master race Dunmer magdk tonk/dd, argonian slaver (obselote, retired)
    Twin Grakata - stamplar for fun after got sick of NB's meta(Blackrose Executioner)
    1.1k+CP on PC EU [] 28000+ Achievement points [] 2900+ Lorebuks doesnt care anymore about this as stopped play main char (pissed off gathering same achievs again and again...)
    370CP on PC NA (stamplar and stamablade lvled)
    retired from eso since morrowind, back after half of year for short time and again retired after summerset, back with cwc event idk for how long
    DD should gather red circles as many as can
  • xAk_MoRRoWiNdx
    xAk_MoRRoWiNdx
    ✭✭✭
    I'm not sure. I can see where you're coming from with the harder to build crit thing, but having the additional crit damage is nice. Plus the heal for Khajiit NBs is great.

    There's an upside and downside to the changes here.

    if it was increased crit chance and increased crit healing, that would be really nice. It gives something for both PvE and PvP but the 4.3.3 look to be PvP changes though it won't necessarily be detrimental to PvE.

    Perhaps the change isn't the best but it's far from the worst compared to the other races.
    New to forums and stuff so I 99.9 percent probably won't see your response and such, so use the at symbol at me I guess? IDK :/. This BBCode stuff is really cool!! :D.
    Gamer from Alaska (907 Gamers, Alaskan Gamers Unite!).
    My little rant I guess?:
    One day Nightblades will get the buffs we desperately need and deserve, but so far, those buffs are not today.. The Elder Scrolls Online: Nightblade Nerfs Unlimited.
    Don't nerf you, don't nerf me, nerf the sorc behind the tree!.


    If you need help or advice, hit me up on Xbox: Press F to REEE :D .
    Also open to talking on Discord!
    .
    Ich kann Deutsch Sprechen bei der mittleren/zwischen Kenntnissen Ebene. Hallo! :D.

    CP level 880. Playing since 2015.

    My wishlist I suppose:
    • PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEAAASSSEEE EITHER BUFF SIPHONING STRIKES OR REVERT IT BACK TO PRE MORROWIND!!.
    • Bring back purge cloak. But I guess the new heal cloak is more beneficial. Hmmm....
    • MAKE IMPERIAL CITY GREAT AGAIN, BRING BACK THOSE INCREDIBLE DAYS. My best experiences in ESO where in there!
    • Return Stam builds to the power we held in One Tamriel. Long Live Stamina builds!
    • Put Magplar and MagDK into their place. Magpsorc is a hopeless case.
    • Is there any chance that we could get an Ebonheart Pact nerf? #CullingTheHerds .

    My 10 characters:
    • AD - xak-Morrowindx - Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. Hours: 91 days, 2 hours (2,186 hours).
    • EP - Ich bin Groot - Orc Stamina Dragonknight. Hours: 2 days, 16 hours (64 hours).
    • DC - Who Took My Bleach - Orc Stamina Sorcerer. Hours: 3 days, 18 hours. (90 hours).
    • EP - Niada Zaennon - High Elf Magicka Nightblade. Hours: 15 days, 18 hours (378 hours).
    • AD - Healsyournoobazzwithmemes - Argonian Magicka Templar. Hours: 1 day, 9 hours (33 hours)
    • DC - Engulfing Traps - Dark Elf Magicka Dragonknight. Hours: 7 days, 17 hours (129 hours).
    • AD - Verführung - High Elf Magicka Sorcerer. Hours: 5 days, 9 hours (129 hours)
    • DC - Deadazz catch these birds - Nord Stamina Warden. Hours: 6 days, 21 hours (165 hours)
    • EP - So Bendy - Wood Elf Stamina Templar. Hours: 1 day, 15 hours (39 hours)
    • EP - Smash that mf Like button - Breton Magicka Warden. Hours: 20 hours, 20 minutes.

    Aldmeri Dominion Master-Faction!
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's bizzare about it all is that I could have sworn ZOS made it so that crit healing stopped being affected by CP, minor force, and templar/nb passives because it was too strong, only to bring 10% crit healing bonus back through a Khajit racial? How is it somehow going to be balanced now?

    I don't think they even know what they are soon going to be unleashing. Can't wait!
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kadoin wrote: »
    What's bizzare about it all is that I could have sworn ZOS made it so that crit healing stopped being affected by CP, minor force, and templar/nb passives because it was too strong, only to bring 10% crit healing bonus back through a Khajit racial? How is it somehow going to be balanced now?

    I don't think they even know what they are soon going to be unleashing. Can't wait!

    Its cause the crit % passive affected heals. Replacing it with crit damage without also adding crit healing would be a direct nerf to Khajit.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh look, a bunch of claims made without any testing, and predicated on spurious assumptions about how combat works.

    Never seen a thread like this before.
  • Mudcrabber
    Mudcrabber
    ✭✭✭
    On paper (home grown simulator) I think I lose about 1.5% dps from the 810cp magplar build I had planned (keeping my current julianos+bright gear), or 0.8% if I replace my bright throat with mother's sorrow.
  • katorga
    katorga
    ✭✭✭
    Just for giggles during beta the Carnage passive gave 8% crit and 10% crit damage. Nerfed before go live.

    Now after years of players asking for the +crit to be spell and weapon damage, ZOS gives, then takes away crit completely, and goes back to 10% crit damage.
  • Elwendryll
    Elwendryll
    ✭✭✭✭
    I personally find this change both fine and smart. As it impacts more magicka than stamina.
    PC - EU
    "Kiz Zennrili an Zennji siir furo jer wodro"
    May Jone and Jode's light reveal your path.
  • Brrrofski
    Brrrofski
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Kadoin wrote: »
    What's bizzare about it all is that I could have sworn ZOS made it so that crit healing stopped being affected by CP, minor force, and templar/nb passives because it was too strong, only to bring 10% crit healing bonus back through a Khajit racial? How is it somehow going to be balanced now?

    I don't think they even know what they are soon going to be unleashing. Can't wait!

    Lol, how long you been playing this game?

    This is what ZOS does, time and time again. Something is too strong so they take it away then add in an even more broken version of it down the line.
  • Left4Daud
    Left4Daud
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    inb4 Khajiit lose their max stat bonus again like last time :trollface:
  • Edziu
    Edziu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh look, a bunch of claims made without any testing, and predicated on spurious assumptions about how combat works.

    Never seen a thread like this before.

    I dont need tests to see as my no needed to be meta build is getting nerfed to hell as now I have 60% crit and what I will have with this change? full 52% WOAH! WHAT A BUFF! really I would make 100% use of my new passive now sitting at 52% crit chance while not having summerset for meta gear!
    Pro Xp Waster Jaszcz - Khajiit stamina NB, DC EU PC 40AR -main char(no meta cancer build except monster set but its changing situationally)
    Lubisz to Suko - radiantspam repentanting T-bagging Cancerplar (obsolete, retired)
    Bury Zenek - master race Dunmer magdk tonk/dd, argonian slaver (obselote, retired)
    Twin Grakata - stamplar for fun after got sick of NB's meta(Blackrose Executioner)
    1.1k+CP on PC EU [] 28000+ Achievement points [] 2900+ Lorebuks doesnt care anymore about this as stopped play main char (pissed off gathering same achievs again and again...)
    370CP on PC NA (stamplar and stamablade lvled)
    retired from eso since morrowind, back after half of year for short time and again retired after summerset, back with cwc event idk for how long
    DD should gather red circles as many as can
  • Edziu
    Edziu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Left4Daud wrote: »
    inb4 Khajiit lose their max stat bonus again like last time :trollface:

    yeah, I would prefer to reroll in overall khajiit changes now to state how it is in live, so no max stats but crit chance..well played ZO$
    Pro Xp Waster Jaszcz - Khajiit stamina NB, DC EU PC 40AR -main char(no meta cancer build except monster set but its changing situationally)
    Lubisz to Suko - radiantspam repentanting T-bagging Cancerplar (obsolete, retired)
    Bury Zenek - master race Dunmer magdk tonk/dd, argonian slaver (obselote, retired)
    Twin Grakata - stamplar for fun after got sick of NB's meta(Blackrose Executioner)
    1.1k+CP on PC EU [] 28000+ Achievement points [] 2900+ Lorebuks doesnt care anymore about this as stopped play main char (pissed off gathering same achievs again and again...)
    370CP on PC NA (stamplar and stamablade lvled)
    retired from eso since morrowind, back after half of year for short time and again retired after summerset, back with cwc event idk for how long
    DD should gather red circles as many as can
  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Edziu wrote: »
    Oh look, a bunch of claims made without any testing, and predicated on spurious assumptions about how combat works.

    Never seen a thread like this before.

    I dont need tests to see as my no needed to be meta build is getting nerfed to hell as now I have 60% crit and what I will have with this change? full 52% WOAH! WHAT A BUFF! really I would make 100% use of my new passive now sitting at 52% crit chance while not having summerset for meta gear!

    Don't need 1 either... My crit is at 40% with all pvp buffs. Usually more like 35%. Pray to Alkosh this doesn't go live.. :-/
    Cp 1352
    Xbox-EU-AD

    Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
    Khajiit(Master Race) Stamplar Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer
    Khajiit Stamina Nightblade(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer crafter

    Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
    Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wolfhunter-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 51.4k dps with fracture,48.5 on stamblade ww
  • Blackleopardex
    Blackleopardex
    ✭✭✭✭
    I hate the cc to cd change. For me personally, two of my khajiits get nerfed because of this, in pvp. I would rather see the live khajiit passives stay then the loosing the 8% cc and replacing it with something I would not benefit from. And I think this goes for many setups. Why on Nirn would you make the nightblade gank/snipe builds stronger?
    I don't read long signatures: https://www.youtube.com/user/Blackleopardex
  • rafaelcsmaia
    rafaelcsmaia
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cloudless wrote: »
    Zos seems like they're throwing numbers around...

    Really? Are you blaming them when there are loads of threads, made by players, that can be summed up with "booh friggin' hoo, my Altmer isn't the best thing ever anymore and I blame ZOS for making the damn furries overpowered so they can sell more copies of Elsweyr"?
    Given those premises, these changes were inevitable. Once again, the vocal minority does what it does best.

    Oh yeah, I am blaming them. They're a company, so i expect them to be at least professional in their decisions.

    If general motors would listen to every absurd claim and whine they get, we most likely would have donkey pulled cars with square wheels.

    There are actual testing proving the 10% crit dmg results in less crit damage than 250 ish weapon dmg from other races, and that they could have tested before throwing this random 10% value
  • JinMori
    JinMori
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a buff if you have standard pve criticl chance, bit it could Also be a slight nerf
    Edited by JinMori on February 12, 2019 9:34AM
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Finedaible wrote: »
    Regarding patch 4.3.3:
    "Feline Ambush: Reworked the 8% Spell and Weapon Critical Strike Chance to 10% Critical Damage and Critical Healing."

    I do not like this change to Khajiit at all. Khajiit were the only ones who could get semi-reliable crit setups, and are now subject to more RNG shenanigans for their DPS and healing with this change. More crit dmg and healing is nice, but it's very volatile, and not as reliable as the buff to crit chance was. It is very hard to get critical chance increase in this game without gimping your build. This change also further shoehorns Khajiit into the two obvious classes, Nightblade and Templar, which is not a healthy thing for diversity. Just give Khajiit the passives from patch 4.3.2, but take their health recovery away, and buff stam/magicka recovery and leave it at that.

    Actually this change makes templar and nightblade slightly worse options for khajit then other classes when 8% crit chance was making khajit slightly better on templar and nightblade. For most of the setups damage difference is barely noticable. Also calling crit chance buff "more reliable" then crit dmg is kinda silly. It's not excatly how math works. It's actually funny that all math needed to count how those changes affect builds is basically secondary school level at max yet people still fail to make it on their own.

    Examples of how the change will affect certain stats compositions:
    50% crit chance 70% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,4% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    50% crit chance 80% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,9% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    50% crit chance 90% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 1,5% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    50% crit chance 100% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 1,9% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    60% crit chance 70% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,2% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    60% crit chance 80% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,2% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    60% crit chance 90% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,7% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    60% crit chance 100% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 1,2% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    70% crit chance 70% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,9% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    70% crit chance 80% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,4% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    70% crit chance 90% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,1% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    70% crit chance 100% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,6% more damage then 10% crit dmg
    80% crit chance 70% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 1,5% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    80% crit chance 80% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,9% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    80% crit chance 90% crit dmg - adding 8% crit chance gives 0,4% less damage then 10% crit dmg
    80% crit chance 100% crit dmg - no difference in dmg
    Edited by Juhasow on February 12, 2019 9:52AM
  • JinMori
    JinMori
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Juhasow wrote: »
    Finedaible wrote: »
    Regarding patch 4.3.3:
    "Feline Ambush: Reworked the 8% Spell and Weapon Critical Strike Chance to 10% Critical Damage and Critical Healing."

    I do not like this change to Khajiit at all. Khajiit were the only ones who could get semi-reliable crit setups, and are now subject to more RNG shenanigans for their DPS and healing with this change. More crit dmg and healing is nice, but it's very volatile, and not as reliable as the buff to crit chance was. It is very hard to get critical chance increase in this game without gimping your build. This change also further shoehorns Khajiit into the two obvious classes, Nightblade and Templar, which is not a healthy thing for diversity. Just give Khajiit the passives from patch 4.3.2, but take their health recovery away, and buff stam/magicka recovery and leave it at that.

    Actually this change makes templar and nightblade slightly worse options for khajit then other classes.

    Yep, diminishing returns
  • evoniee
    evoniee
    ✭✭✭
    it is ok imo, when it crit it have more chance to kill.

    IE warden khajiit with stalk + DBoS adding 8% not gonna add any damage at all if we lucky enought without additional 8% chance.

    in the other hand 10% more damage could make something different, just keep praying you lucky enought to keep crit wihout that 8%.
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