Time stop

Irylia

Tl:dr
-Various cost reduction benefits have not been applied to the 8100 so it will be far cheaper than it appears.
-snare + delayed stun are the issues
-remove the snare or fix the delay break

With the increase to cost
8100
You would think that this is enough of a nerf but it’s the incredibly delayed break free combined with the massive aoe snare that should have been addressed.

Even if you increase the cost it won’t prevent multiple players from dropping it on you a handful of times each. They already neglect self buffs and healing because with the safety of numbers it’s easy to invest their entire pool into one ability cast.

It is 8100
psijic passives 15% cost reduc
Light armor 10-14% 5-7 light
Breton 7%
Seducer 8%

If we factor all of these in to the cost, that once steep inhibitor no longer becomes taxing.

Yes, not everyone will go Breton or use seducer. In fact they may not even be in light armor but the ability to spam it is still fairly prevalent and the reason players hate having it spammed on them is due to the extreme snare conditions.
In a current patch where mobility is limited and immunity to snares was cut, it’s a disgusting experience having these bubbles fill your screen.

id suggest removing the snare entirely as there are already plenty of other skills to provide snaring while still not being as oppressive.

Austinseph1

This ability is useful in PvE as well... you can’t just nerf everything that annoys you in PvP for both just for 1 side. Either add it into battle spirit or leave it.

Iskiab

You’re kidding right? I have a better idea based on what it is you seem to be looking for.

How about when people log in against you they’re immobilized and their skills don’t work. They line up for you so you can kill them one at a time at your pleasure.

Does that sound fun? Stop PvForuming and asking for the game to change to suit your play style.

The fact that people think time stop was an issue in the first place means it was needed. Crowd control is there to control crowds, not setup your burst to PK people. If you’re running in a tight cluster then it means there’s something very wrong with pvp, and there should be counters to it.

Donny_Vito

I love this skill for PvE. It's a great helper for no-death runs and for helping the tank when we run 3 DPS. And for non-meta tanks (NBs, Templars, and potentially Sorcs) this is a great CC tool that they don't have in their arsenal. It sucks all the PvP complaints will force a negative effect in PvE.

FrankonPC

Iskiab wrote: »

The fact that people think time stop was an issue in the first place means it was needed. Crowd control is there to control crowds, not setup your burst to PK people. If you’re running in a tight cluster then it means there’s something very wrong with pvp, and there should be counters to it.

an aoe stun that can't be broken isn't needed. keep the aoe defile, provide a stun that goes through block, that's all fine imo.

twing1_

Austinseph1 wrote: »

This ability is useful in PvE as well... you can’t just nerf everything that annoys you in PvP for both just for 1 side. Either add it into battle spirit or leave it.

And it is for this reason, instead of almost doubling the cost, they should just reduce its radius. Reducing its radius makes it far easier to escape in pvp, yet still accomplishes its goal as a large aoe crowd control available to all classes. Right now I don't believe it's the cost that's the issue with the ability, I think because of its radius it is too hard to escape in pvp and is over performing by almost guaranteeing your enemies to break free.

josiahva

Austinseph1 wrote: »

This ability is useful in PvE as well... you can’t just nerf everything that annoys you in PvP for both just for 1 side. Either add it into battle spirit or leave it.

^^This, while I play both PvE and PvP, I am sick and tired of PvP crybabies killing abilities I often use more in PvE that PvP. This ability is pathetically easy to avoid in PvP...the ONLY PvP use of this ability is as a zerg buster and breach defense...neither of which are oppressive. While I am occasionally caught by a time stop, I am able to avoid this ability 90% of the time in PvP...ZOS really needs to stop listening to every cry for nerfs they hear.

Minno

breton+templar+light+skillline cost = 5439.

The build editor claims the cost reduction is breton + templar + light first THEN the skillline cost.

5439 is still expensive, agreed that seducers will drop it but it's still higher than 3k (closer to templar purge and we can't sustain that for too long).

Agreed the snare shouldnt exist.

Teeba_Shei

yeah the snare is the major issue. That and the size of the bubble needs to be removed.

Cardthief

I guess you could say, its TIME for this to STOP...

Haashhtaag

What is the radius of the time stop area?

Iskiab

Exactly, it was a Zerg/ball group buster and now there isn’t one. I heard inevitable detonation used to be effective too but crybabies got it nerfed?

People want to continue running ball groups. Healing springs is ridiculously cheap to cast and powerful. Then there are all the short range buffs from item sets.

As long as ranged aoes are expensive and do little damage, and healing is cheap to aoe heal, ball groups will continue. It’s poor design.

What they should have done is left time stop like it was and made inevitable detonation insta-cast. Without crowd busting abilities the faction with the highest population will always win. Do people really want cyrodiil to die?

As an AD player we’re typically against larger numbers. If cc goes and it becomes a pure numbers game, faction imbalance will accelerate until there’s either only two factions fighting or people grow bored and no one will play.

In pvp I’m accustomed to stronger ranged aoe and cc. Once you had a full raid the numbers you’re fighting against became irrelevant because of cc and aoe. This is exactly what the cry babies don’t want, but it’s necessary or else there’s too much of an advantage from having the most players.

Nutshotz

Hold up the cry babies. I'm kinda curious as to whom you're referring too.

Most zerglings spam the hell out of this skill. So 3k was way to cheap for it. Most I've seen in a tower was 11 stops. 11. Telling me that PvP players are crying for a nerf when in fact it needs it.

Let me guess you're one of those players that says it's been in the tree for 5 yrs so stop destroying my builds. (Referring to bowtard)

If they didn't do the cost increase than what they needed to do was this
1. Reduce radius
2. Affect ALL PLAYERS inside time stop
3. Remove CC.

Now would you run it if it affected ALL PLAYERS ? Doubt so

Iskiab

Of course I wouldn’t use it if it effected everyone, would you use aoe attacks if it effected everyone?

I would say anyone who thinks it’s OP is a crybaby.

So you counted 11 times in a confined space. Why is your group fighting in a confined space is the larger question. You’re describing the exact situation cc and aoe were designed for and then stating it like it’s a problem. The problem is your tactics, not the ability.

You think huddling up is a strength and anyone who doesn’t is a zergling, when huddling up should be a weakness.

Apoxsee

A keep is a confined space... you have to take flags in a keep. So exactly how do you defend yourself against three time stops seeing that they can take up the entire bottoms floor of a keep and be repleatly spam?

josiahva

Nutshotz wrote: »

Hold up the cry babies. I'm kinda curious as to whom you're referring too.

Most zerglings spam the hell out of this skill. So 3k was way to cheap for it. Most I've seen in a tower was 11 stops. 11. Telling me that PvP players are crying for a nerf when in fact it needs it.

Let me guess you're one of those players that says it's been in the tree for 5 yrs so stop destroying my builds. (Referring to bowtard)

If they didn't do the cost increase than what they needed to do was this
1. Reduce radius
2. Affect ALL PLAYERS inside time stop
3. Remove CC.

Now would you run it if it affected ALL PLAYERS ? Doubt so

And what about PvE? This is a staple for PvE tanks for crowd control. As for a tower...if you were running into a tower farm...what do you expect? Tower farms are ALWAYS FULL OF AOEs. No, both your proposed nerfs and what they are actually doing with it make this skill worthless. They may as well remove it entirely and give us a new Psyijiic skill if that is their intention.

Iskiab

Apoxsee wrote: »

A keep is a confined space... you have to take flags in a keep. So exactly how do you defend yourself against three time stops seeing that they can take up the entire bottoms floor of a keep and be repleatly spam?

Actually, against rushes into keeps time stops aren’t effective. People use immunity pots and run right through it.

Where it’s most effective is in prolonged engagements once people can’t immunity pot together and blow through cc.

The people who use time stop most are healers, it’s a way to contribute when there’s less incoming damage. While countering a charge you’re spam healing, then once your raid has stabilized you time stop to counter push.

That’s why the change kills the ability. The low magicka cost meant you could contribute on offense but now that the cost has increased it’ll be too onerous to use.

soynegroyque

I just leveled this skill to help my dungeon groups and I probably cant use it anymore because it will eat all my magic
-Tank

Irylia

josiahva wrote: »

Austinseph1 wrote: »

This ability is useful in PvE as well... you can’t just nerf everything that annoys you in PvP for both just for 1 side. Either add it into battle spirit or leave it.

^^This, while I play both PvE and PvP, I am sick and tired of PvP crybabies killing abilities I often use more in PvE that PvP. This ability is pathetically easy to avoid in PvP...the ONLY PvP use of this ability is as a zerg buster and breach defense...neither of which are oppressive. While I am occasionally caught by a time stop, I am able to avoid this ability 90% of the time in PvP...ZOS really needs to stop listening to every cry for nerfs they hear.

Iskiab wrote: »

You’re kidding right? I have a better idea based on what it is you seem to be looking for.

How about when people log in against you they’re immobilized and their skills don’t work. They line up for you so you can kill them one at a time at your pleasure.

Does that sound fun? Stop PvForuming and asking for the game to change to suit your play style.

The fact that people think time stop was an issue in the first place means it was needed. Crowd control is there to control crowds, not setup your burst to PK people. If you’re running in a tight cluster then it means there’s something very wrong with pvp, and there should be counters to it.

Current rapids allows large raids of 12-18 to avoid time stop altogether.

Where it is abused is when a zerg spams it on people they outnumber.
And it’s not just healers using this. There are low level, low cp, Stam, tanks and various other specs all using it in you because they know it’s strong.

Where it is mediocre and essentially useless is large zerg v Zerg.

Det wasn’t nerfed
Earthgore saves the large groups
The snare on timestop is overkill with speed and immunity nerfs.

I’m guessing you fit in the zerg profile

For pve
You can still utilize time stops 4 sec stun by talon the mobs and then timestopping for the stun.

Not to mention there was a time when pve had less cp, no earthgore, no time stop and less tools at their disposal. Pve was actually challenging and requires groups to perform. Now you get free handouts and it is a joke.

When we are facing extreme numbers it’s absolutely braindead for players to sit on a half a dozen siege or more and then also spam timestop.

https://youtu.be/1hecXIVtm8g

technohic

I agree with most of what you suggest, but I would leave one morph for snare into a root, the other for a stun. I would not let them overlap/stack

Healing reduction is entirely overloading and I think it does it whether you are immune to the stun or root/snare anyway and thats just awful

And before people talk about avoiding it; if you are in the middle, you can roll dodge and be stunned mid roll . I avoid when I see it but this is spammed by large groups who have someone that can absorb spending 8k on it because thats all they do, and then they tend to also have a silver leash/DK chain spammer and a talon spammer to pull 1 guy into their numbers and pretend they do it to take on greater numbers even though it is 16v1 at a time. Imovability and forward momentum got nerfed so we can not longer stay out.

SmackNCheese

This skill is single handedly killing small scale pvp. Because pugs can simply spam it and suddenly all movement slows down significantly. All it takes is 2-3 braindead players spamming it on a choke and its near impossible to get in without immovable potions. And don't get me started on the morph that negates healing but has a channel. The only players who have the time to cast that are the ones in groups so large they forget sometimes they have to heal themselves. As a solo player this skill gets me killed more often than any of the other annoying stuff in this game such as reverb stun, draining shot, siege, health desync.

Passifest

Time stop and earthgore are ruining the game pls fix

GeneralSezme

Fixing the broken stun and snare with time stop in pvp isn’t going to mess up pve at all. Mobs don’t break CC, they could make it cost nothing for all I care if they fixed why its broken.

leeux

IMHO the real problem is the non-instant break free... it always had been for many stun abilities that has some kind of pre-setup animation... like permafrost damage based stuns, and NB fear.

Again, IMHO no abilities should require you to wait before you're able to get free. My opinion is that ALL stun abilities that have a setup animation need to be changed to be able to be able to break free instantly from them, like you can to with knockbacks or bash/interrupts etc,

All of this is always within lag and server response limits, ofc... so there's already a delay time before you can react.

GlorphNoldorin

leeux wrote: »

IMHO the real problem is the non-instant break free... it always had been for many stun abilities that has some kind of pre-setup animation... like permafrost damage based stuns, and NB fear.

Again, IMHO no abilities should require you to wait before you're able to get free. My opinion is that ALL stun abilities that have a setup animation need to be changed to be able to be able to break free instantly from them, like you can to with knockbacks or bash/interrupts etc,

All of this is always within lag and server response limits, ofc... so there's already a delay time before you can react.

Agree so much with this. As annoying as time stop can be the trouble with break free is more the issue....thats right....game performance.

As has been said often, this skill is useful as is for pve tanking.....classic ZOS. Lets build diversity.....only to make it so that we should all be dk tanks.

Alpheu5

Irylia wrote: »

Det wasn’t nerfed

From patch 2.4.5 (Dark Brotherhood)

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Haashhtaag wrote: »

What is the radius of the time stop area?

8 meters Radius with a cast range of 28. All they have to do is lower the cast range down to 10-15 meters.

Irylia

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Det wasn’t nerfed

From patch 2.4.5 (Dark Brotherhood)

Yea so it hasn’t been nerfed.
That was nearly 3 years ago and with removal of aoe caps/5x to staves and the additional high damage sets the loss is minimal

It will still chunk players that are stacked and zerglings could use inev det on raids but they dont.

Imagine a raid of pugs spamming Inev det into an organized raid.
Purge triggers it to instant proc otherwise it’s a 4 sec timer.
Would be hitting for max amount because they stack tightly.

But they would rather spam timestop as I’m sure they enjoy chronomancer roleplay.

Iskiab

So many ridiculous comments asking for an I win button. Any ranged ability with a range less than shield charge is useless in pvp. You’re asking for no one to be able to effect you in pvp unless you have the option of charging, stunning and bursting down the player.

Is there an ignore button for forums? I really hope the devs use it.

montiferus

Austinseph1 wrote: »

This ability is useful in PvE as well... you can’t just nerf everything that annoys you in PvP for both just for 1 side. Either add it into battle spirit or leave it.

If you need time stop for pve content you should consider uninstalling the game.

montiferus

Iskiab wrote: »

Is there an ignore button for forums? I really hope the devs use it.

There is. You can ignore a player. I was going to do that for you but I realized I’d rather to see all the uninformed points you bring up in a thread like this.