Imperial Racial

J18696 · February 2019

Yeah I dont wanna give up my max hp and stam for magicka that we dont need and never had

josiahva · February 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

@josiahva you realize that every race was hit by the % to flat numbers change and not just Imperials? That's Altmer have just 2000 Magicka instead of ~ 4000 etc. You can't give Imperials 6000 resources when other races barely get a fraction of that. And compared to other races Imperials indeed have three completely useful passives now. If you want Magicka in top, you have to trade in something. 2000 Health AND Stamina is still a very reasonable amount and one of the highest resource gains of all races (don't know if any other race gets 4000 resources through racials).

I disagree on the usefulness of the passives...sure...the 3% cost reduction would be nice...if and only if you combine it with Alteration Mastery for a solid 10%...otherwise you would have to spam an ability 33 times to get one free use. The same goes for the resource regen....combined with other regen it is nice...but on its own it will never make a noticeable difference. To maximize the use you would have to spec into certain sets...and alteration mastery as an example is a magicka based set...honestly I would rather the old red diamond heal back than the rss regen myself(that was a nice source of healing on my tank when the healer wasnt healing me, now its worthless...I dont have trouble sustaining magicka or stam)

The fact that all races have their max stats nerfed is irrelevant to the conversation at hand(not sure what the developers are trying to accomplish with across the board nerfs) but your math is wrong...Imperial gets 3500 generic resources compared to say Dunmer at 3750 generic resources(remember...health is weighed at only 75% of the others) so even if you only wanted to match Dunmer, you could give imperials 250 max magicka

Royaji · February 2019

josiahva wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

The 3% is too small to care, the argonian-lite resource return is too small to care and not controllable like it is for argonian. The resource pool advantage is not as high as it was for imperials. Imperials still are no good for anything.

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was. And cost reduction for all-rounder is ok as an idea, but 3% is laughable. Bretons get 7%. Yes, imperial is for “all the things” but no one cares about that, we use Magicka or stamina for dps, one or the other. That’s the way this game is designed.

You're remembering that the Argonian passive is once every 45s, and requires you use consumables, while Red Diamond is every 6s, right?

yea its basically the same thing, different proc mechanics.

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe add a magicka bonus and increase cost reduction to 4%?

Imperial is fine and doesnt need anymore fine tuning to the max stats. If you need mag, swap the enchants to get what you need. otherwise they got the unique brawler passives needed to retain racial identity.

Why are you so dead set against giving imperials a max magicka stat as well? Reduce the health and stam if you have to, but there is no reason not to give imperial at least 1000 max magicka. Your argument is like saying you are going to play a magicka Orc and just use enchants to balance out what you need...enchants are no substitute for what should be built into a race to start with...with imperials supposed to be the jack of all trades(just look at Skyrim) they should have a flat stat bonus for each resource as well...make it 1500/1500/1500, or even 1250/1250/1250, but make them at least competitive with Dunmer for the race of choice for Hybrid builds

I'm dead set against it because I like where my imperial are since I built them as stamDD and tank. I do not want to loose health or stamina for magicka and 2000 of each will be a serious outlier of passive strength calculation ZOS uses.

One of the points of race changes was to not shift the focus of a race too much. This is why dunmers were swiftly adjusted in 4.3.2 after changes in 4.3.0 moved their focus too much from being a hybrid race. Imperials were never a hybrid race and were always known for having the highest health and stamina bonus.

My preference would be 2000/2000/2000. The fact is, both the Stam and Health pools have already been nerfed from Imperial...and they arent coming back, but there is no harm in adding a 2000 magicka pool as well...it sure helps my PvE tank out a lot to have an extra 2k magicka(especially because they are making time stop so expensive because of incessant PvP whining). And YES IMPERIALS WERE A HYBRID RACE....Health/Stam is just as hybrid as Stam/Magicka....and as I mentioned before...in Skyrim they were a lot more hybrid than that. You are acting like them adding magicka would take away one of the other rss...even if it did...you wouldn't have to worry because "you can always use enchants to balance it out"

2000/2000/2000 is 3 full passives worth. Adding magicka will indeed have to take something else. I'm not trading new Red Diamond that is actually useful for once for a magicka bonus that never was on Imperials in the first place.

We are talking ESO here and in ESO Imperials never had a magicka bonus. I don't care what happened in Skyrim.

And the fact that you are trying to argue semantics is cute. Of course I've meant hybrid as a stam/mag hybird since it is how most reasonable people define hybrid. Imperial is a sturdy stamina race. Not a health/stam hybrid.

Its not semantics...Health is a resource...just like stamina is...this is why Imperials were a top choice for tanks...because they combined large amounts of the top 2 resource pools for tanks. Lets do the math shall we?

As they were:
Increases Max Health by 12%
Increases Max Stamina by 10%

Lets take a basic non-health build tank at:
33k health 33000*.12= 3960 health....since health is weighted at roughly 75% of stam or magicka that is 3960*.75= 2970 generic attribute score
30k Stamina 30000*.10=3000 stamina with full weighting is 3000*1.0= 3000 generic attribute score

2970+3000=5970...and yet you claim them adding 2000 magicka to the new flat values of 2000 health(1500 generic) and 2000(2000 generic) stamina for a total of 5500 generic attribute points is too much? Get real....it would STILL be a nerf for total attribute points from live even with the theoretical 2000/2000/2000. The red diamond passive rss regen is pretty worthless anyway and wont make much difference...the 3% cost reduction is nice....together along with flat attributes they would make imperial playable for anything...which is the point. Stop trying to ignore what happened in Skyrim just because you want a stam-focused race that ignores the Imperial battlemage history.

P.S. The nerf from live gets bigger and bigger the more of a health tank you spec into....I just chose every day common 33khealth 30k stam as an example...it could be far worse than that.

I mean, do I even need to argue with you?

For someone reason you are:

Trying to calculate something weird from old passives (I mean, they were changed because they were not balnced, duh) despite Gilliam explicitly stating how they calculated potential of new passives and how they were aiming at roughly 6.5 set bonuses for all of them.
Trying to downplay quite major bonuses of new Red Diamond (~200 regen to every resource although not scaleable but coupled with cost reduction on ultimates and all actions) for your agenda.
Trying to bring Skyrim lore into ESO gameplay (god those people...).
Refusing to understand that ZOS has stated that they are not going to do a massive focus change for any race because it is not a nice thing to do to your players.
Saying that race changes will be a massive nerf to resource pools despite the fact that other changes coming with this patch will lead to max resources being minimally affected mostly being a small increase (unless you are a 50k max magicka pet sorc, duh).
Claiming that health is an equivalent resource as magicka and stamina.

Sorry. I really do not see a reason why I should be adding anything else to this conversation.

JobooAGS · February 2019

Assuming an average stamina cost for abilities of 2700, red diamond will give you an equlivalent of 296 regen. Which is great. In addition, you have 2k hp, so you can afford to run gold food or even lava foot soup with little to issues to hp therefore more sustain (with 7 med armor and a warden offtank giving you ebon and minor toughness, you will have about 15.5k hp with lavafoot and the cp changes), 3% cheaper ults which means more dps, 3% cheaper block, bash, sprint, break free so even more sustain, out sustaining redguard and the same max stam as orc and redguard.