Imperial Racial

Carelli

This discussion will cover the new Imperial racial passives, particularly Red Diamond.

When I first came upon the new racial, I felt my heart sank. It just looks overall underwhelming and seems not as unique as the previous edition. Imperial now looks more like a gimped Redguard with a bit of magicka sustain attached to it and a very weak heal in PvP. If it had a higher resource return or a lower CD, it wouldn't be as bad. However, it still wouldn't fix the fact it is not quite as unique. I went to a handful of friends who play Imperial on various different classes and they all just felt like this was a pretty hard nerf to them. The previous Red Diamond from last week's PTS actually looked great to them. It said precisely, "Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%. When you deal direct damage you have a 15% chance to heal yourself for 1,750." It is evident that it was more appealing to tanks and ZOS wanted to take a more sustain role to be more DPS friendly. After a bit of pondering, I felt like the best way to make Imperial a fun race is to set Red Diamond up precisely as this:

Red Diamond: Reduces the cost of all your abilities by 5%. When you deal direct damage you have a 15% chance to heal yourself for 1,750.

Essentially, an Alteration Mastery in a racial. This would feel quite unique and be a passive that would allow for both survivability and sustain. All skills are affected by this reduced cost and when you add up the numbers mitigated from ability costs, this helps quite a bit with sustain. DPS spammables will be cheaper allowing their low recoveries to catch up and keep in pace, helping overall sustain. The passive healing will allow all styles an offensive option for healing so when they receive pressure they can take a beating and try returning their own. This is what direction ZOS felt like would be a good direction last PTS.

For lore, this passive I feel makes a lot of sense. Imperials are divided into two cultures the Nibenese and the Colovians. This proposition for the Red Diamond passive underlines Imperial proficiency as mages (Tends to be the Nibenese) and warriors (the Colovians) as well as their overall cosmopolitan nature. In previous Elder Scrolls, Imperials always have been the Jack-of-All-Trades race.

Varxent

+1

joaaocaampos

Red Diamond now restores Health, Stamina and Magicka. There is no need to reduce the cost of all abilities.

J18696

We are talking about a reduction instead of the 333 stat return as someone who plays only imperial stam toons I think the reduction would be a far better sustain option and it looks less generic to me the 333 stat return is like 120 extra regen pretty much nothing when you are spamming skills in a dps rotation or in pvp the current block and bash reduction is stupid because it is forcing the race into a tank role with no real benefit for dps or other roles

sionIV

I created a thread in the general forum for people to share ideas for new and interesting Imperial racials. At the moment the Imperial is the worst race, and it needs something more or an entire rework. They could change Red Diamond to add 129 Weapon Damage or something else, but I would prefer them to bring something new to the table instead. My example would look something like this.

Imperial

1500 Magicka
1500 Stamina
1000 Health
Red Diamond: When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 400 Health, Magicka, Stamina and you gain 1500 Physical and Spell Resistance for 5 seconds. This effect has a 5 second cooldown.

idk

No offence but your suggestion is much stronger than Red Diamond in either v4.3.0 and v4.3.2.

Basically what I am saying is if you think that Zos will take the suggestion it will not be until pigs fly. You do not even address the reasoning Zos has given for these changes in reverting what they changed this week.

Sinolai

Carelli wrote: »

This discussion will cover the new Imperial racial passives, particularly Red Diamond.

When I first came upon the new racial, I felt my heart sank. It just looks overall underwhelming and seems not as unique as the previous edition. Imperial now looks more like a gimped Redguard with a bit of magicka sustain attached to it and a very weak heal in PvP. If it had a higher resource return or a lower CD, it wouldn't be as bad. However, it still wouldn't fix the fact it is not quite as unique. I went to a handful of friends who play Imperial on various different classes and they all just felt like this was a pretty hard nerf to them. The previous Red Diamond from last week's PTS actually looked great to them. It said precisely, "Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%. When you deal direct damage you have a 15% chance to heal yourself for 1,750." It is evident that it was more appealing to tanks and ZOS wanted to take a more sustain role to be more DPS friendly. After a bit of pondering, I felt like the best way to make Imperial a fun race is to set Red Diamond up precisely as this.

I would actually pick mag&stam recovery for my tank (PvE) instead of Health. Healer will give you hp while stamina is often low when you must taunt and block a lot and magicka lets you use mor self-heals and chains/roots/buffs/debuffs. Also could divide 2000 max stamina into 1500/1500 (or 1250/1250) max magicka and max stamina. Tanks like max magicka as much as max stamina, while it also makes magicka imperials more viable (Though is a nerf to Imperial PvP Stamplar, like the Red Diamond change now).

Trancestor

"Red Diamond: Reduces the cost of all your abilities by 5%. When you deal direct damage you have a 15% chance to heal yourself for 1,750."

That would be great.

J18696

Ofc it would be better than both pts changes to the racial it's was good the first pts now it's a pretty much zero heal in pvp with meme sustain built in I cant speak to much for pve but the reduction even if it's less than 5% would help me more in pvp than 333 stam every 5 seconds

josiahva

sionIV wrote: »

I created a thread in the general forum for people to share ideas for new and interesting Imperial racials. At the moment the Imperial is the worst race, and it needs something more or an entire rework. They could change Red Diamond to add 129 Weapon Damage or something else, but I would prefer them to bring something new to the table instead. My example would look something like this.

Imperial

1500 Magicka
1500 Stamina
1000 Health
Red Diamond: When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 400 Health, Magicka, Stamina and you gain 1500 Physical and Spell Resistance for 5 seconds. This effect has a 5 second cooldown.

This would be fine if the stats were 2000 each....there is CERTAINLY no reason for the health to be lower than the other 2...at least make it 1500/1500/1500...but 2000 would be the sweet spot to make this an only slightly sub-par choice over other races for any given role

Carelli

Indeed, I have also considered a Magicka/Stamina split as well. The heal would be quite powerful with the new reduce cost I agree idk. Perhaps we could reduce the heal to 1,500 with the cost reduction the same.

DoobZ69

Nobody wants the Dunmer to be a hybrid race. Just stop it.

satanio

J18696 wrote: »

Ofc it would be better than both pts changes to the racial it's was good the first pts now it's a pretty much zero heal in pvp with meme sustain built in I cant speak to much for pve but the reduction even if it's less than 5% would help me more in pvp than 333 stam every 5 seconds

How good would be that heal of 1790 in pvp? It's halved + defiles no? Becomes like 500 heal... And on direct only.... You could abuse that in some niche setups (biting jabs templar?) but I honestly think that the new one is better. And block cost reduction in pvp is good, mostly for non tanks, since tanks already have their block cost reduced.

Honestly, I'm biased, I disliked 4.3.0 iteration of Imperial racial and fought hard for its change on this forum. They've changed and I'm happy with it.

vesselwiththepestle

Does Biting Jabs even procc Red Diamond?

Minno

idk wrote: »

No offence but your suggestion is much stronger than Red Diamond in either v4.3.0 and v4.3.2.

Basically what I am saying is if you think that Zos will take the suggestion it will not be until pigs fly. You do not even address the reasoning Zos has given for these changes in reverting what they changed this week.

That's the point. Imperial under performed first iteration.

You have to ask yourself "would you take imperial?". 9/10 times you'd say "yes but x does it better for y role".

Apxac

Why should the Imperials be only a race for tanks? I want to play with my nightblade with this race, only it will be in any case less effective than the Nord, Redgard or Bosmer .. This is very sad

Stx

Imperials should be a hybrid race for sure. Why they have more health than nords, orcs, or red guards makes no sense to me.

Imperials are known for their speech craft, Mercantile, but combat wise they have been good at everything. They are well trained with sword and shields but also make good battlemages and healers.

Solariken

I'd absolutely be fine with this. I really want a reason to go back to Imperial on my main. As it stands on live and PTS I wouldn't choose Imperial for anything.

Minno

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Does Biting Jabs even procc Red Diamond?

Live did, pts won't because it isn't direct DMG lol.

Holycannoli

Someone posted this the other day for imperial owners and I'm reposting it here:

This is everyone who owns the imperial race:

They have gutted the race to a point nobody will want to use it.

WrathOfInnos

I suggested in another thread that Imperials should get a passive that functions like the Divines armor trait, increasing their chosen Mundus Stone by a certain %.

I also think Imperial could use a pure DPS passive, possibly implemented as a passive execute like the Bloodthirsty jewelry trait.

commdt

As much as I like Imperial and play this race myself, this topic is "the race is nerfed, so make it OP". Not supporting

J18696

The suggested changes are just a suggestion to work off it's hardly make imperial a god race thread as it stands anyone who is smart would avoid imperial for tanking and dps in pvp nearly everything is better we dont need to give it block and bash cost give it wep dam or something actually useful most tanks run 3 block glyphs and how the games math works that 5% ends up being very little in the end and having 2 block glyphs pretty much is free bash cost so good gain from that 5% bash cost(sarcasm)

WikiMeister

Tell me I'm not the only one in this thread right now, waiting in bated breath for the arrival of the Patch Notes later today in hopes that Imperial is getting a well justified fix to bring them up to par. 😰

I'd honestly just be happy if they had a buff to tri-resource caps (2k HP, Stamina, & Magicka), and a slightly tuned-up bonus to the current iteration of Red Diamond as per 4.3.2, with HP re-weighted to provide more resource since HP return is inherently less valuable than Stam/Mag.

Yamenstein

WikiMeister wrote: »

Tell me I'm not the only one in this thread right now, waiting in bated breath for the arrival of the Patch Notes later today in hopes that Imperial is getting a well justified fix to bring them up to par. 😰

I'd honestly just be happy if they had a buff to tri-resource caps (2k HP, Stamina, & Magicka), and a slightly tuned-up bonus to the current iteration of Red Diamond as per 4.3.2, with HP re-weighted to provide more resource since HP return is inherently less valuable than Stam/Mag.

I doubt they will change much, hasn't Red diamond been bugged the entire last week ? Not enough testing to warrant much change at the moment.

satanio

Yamenstein wrote: »

I doubt they will change much, hasn't Red diamond been bugged the entire last week ? Not enough testing to warrant much change at the moment.

You're right, it supposedly wasn't proccing from everything it should've. It won't change this week. What will change for sure is orc.

NinchiTV

WikiMeister wrote: »

Tell me I'm not the only one in this thread right now, waiting in bated breath for the arrival of the Patch Notes later today in hopes that Imperial is getting a well justified fix to bring them up to par. 😰

I'd honestly just be happy if they had a buff to tri-resource caps (2k HP, Stamina, & Magicka), and a slightly tuned-up bonus to the current iteration of Red Diamond as per 4.3.2, with HP re-weighted to provide more resource since HP return is inherently less valuable than Stam/Mag.

im worried too, im loving my imperial stamsorc but if they really do nerf it then i'll have to race change which i really dont want to do because its my favorite race just behind high elf. One of the reps said they hear us and will push for better imperial changes a few days ago so there is hope.

WikiMeister

satanio wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

I doubt they will change much, hasn't Red diamond been bugged the entire last week ? Not enough testing to warrant much change at the moment.

You're right, it supposedly wasn't proccing from everything it should've. It won't change this week. What will change for sure is orc.

No matter the way you look at it though, it is such an outrage that the Imperial race is effectively shafted and given an entire week's 'bye' while people can continue testing all the other races. Imperial couldn't even be given a working passive for the course of an entire week so that at least some meaningful testing could be done.

heaven13

Holycannoli wrote: »

Someone posted this the other day for imperial owners and I'm reposting it here:

This is everyone who owns the imperial race:

They have gutted the race to a point nobody will want to use it.

lol that was me. I have 4 Imperials (they're my favorite race). Even though they've never been BiS for any role, they were still competent. With the new racial changes, I'm not sure how viable they'll be for group content anymore. I still won't be race changing them because their backstory/identity is also important to me. But the current state of their passives definitely makes me sad.

Honestly, I'd love to see Imperials as a true, viable hybrid race. They still need some more changes though to get there.

Xvorg

Apxac wrote: »

Why should the Imperials be only a race for tanks? I want to play with my nightblade with this race, only it will be in any case less effective than the Nord, Redgard or Bosmer .. This is very sad

Actually Imperial with an improved red diamond looks perfect for a Sap tank build

Holycannoli

WikiMeister wrote: »

No matter the way you look at it though, it is such an outrage that the Imperial race is effectively shafted and given an entire week's 'bye' while people can continue testing all the other races. Imperial couldn't even be given a working passive for the course of an entire week so that at least some meaningful testing could be done.

To be fair though there's no need to test the new Red Diamond. We all know what it will does. It winds up +67 magicka/health/stam per second and that's not in PvP and assuming you're constantly doing direct damage.

Direct damage. You know what that does for my imperial stam sorc that relies on DoTs right? Virtually everything he does is a DoT.

So we don't need to test it, we know it's lousy