Imperial Racial

satanio

Pevey wrote: »

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was.

@Pevey, What do you need that heal for?

MartiniDaniels

Look at your resource drain, then *0.03*2= effective resource recovery. I just looked combat metrics for several fights on tank, total resource drain is usually ~ 750 each of stamina and magicka.
So this change is like another +45 recovery (750*0.03*2) to those 133 we already have resulting in +180 non-scale recovery but not reduced by block time. Argonian numbers now are 177, but argonian doesn't have 2k health and stamina, and i'm not sure if argonian tanks are 2nd pick at all after this 2 consecutive "pve-tank-wise" buffs to imperial.

So imperial tanks - rejoice!

Pevey

satanio wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was.

@Pevey, What do you need that heal for?

It at least makes them interesting for certain types of solo play. Having it split across all three resources makes it only useful for tanks.

Royaji

Pevey wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was.

@Pevey, What do you need that heal for?

It at least makes them interesting for certain types of solo play. Having it split across all three resources makes it only useful for tanks.

Some people will never be happy. If you have 25k health (and more than that is definitely entering "only useful for tanks" territory) you will have a 10% chance to heal for 1500 on a melee attack. That's pathetic. Old Red Diamond is a meme.

Pevey

And yet, it’s better than what we have now. That’s the problem. Imperials are still not in a good place.

Vertilvius

Imperial looks better but still not happy with what they have done. At least they are playable atm. Wish they would rebuff the heal back to 1750 bc lets be honest 333 heal is just stupid lol. Overall at least they listened to us about it bc it was really bad to start with.

Vertilvius

Pevey wrote: »

The 3% is too small to care, the argonian-lite resource return is too small to care and not controllable like it is for argonian. The resource pool advantage is not as high as it was for imperials. Imperials still are no good for anything.

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was. And cost reduction for all-rounder is ok as an idea, but 3% is laughable. Bretons get 7%. Yes, imperial is for “all the things” but no one cares about that, we use Magicka or stamina for dps, one or the other. That’s the way this game is designed.

The reduction to costs does help tanks quit a bit.

satanio

Vertilvius wrote: »

Imperial looks better but still not happy with what they have done. At least they are playable atm. Wish they would rebuff the heal back to 1750 bc lets be honest 333 heal is just stupid lol. Overall at least they listened to us about it bc it was really bad to start with.

Answer to this is this:

Royaji wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was.

@Pevey, What do you need that heal for?

It at least makes them interesting for certain types of solo play. Having it split across all three resources makes it only useful for tanks.

Some people will never be happy. If you have 25k health (and more than that is definitely entering "only useful for tanks" territory) you will have a 10% chance to heal for 1500 on a melee attack. That's pathetic. Old Red Diamond is a meme.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Maybe add a magicka bonus and increase cost reduction to 4%?

starkerealm

Pevey wrote: »

The 3% is too small to care, the argonian-lite resource return is too small to care and not controllable like it is for argonian. The resource pool advantage is not as high as it was for imperials. Imperials still are no good for anything.

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was. And cost reduction for all-rounder is ok as an idea, but 3% is laughable. Bretons get 7%. Yes, imperial is for “all the things” but no one cares about that, we use Magicka or stamina for dps, one or the other. That’s the way this game is designed.

You're remembering that the Argonian passive is once every 45s, and requires you use consumables, while Red Diamond is every 6s, right?

Minno

starkerealm wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

The 3% is too small to care, the argonian-lite resource return is too small to care and not controllable like it is for argonian. The resource pool advantage is not as high as it was for imperials. Imperials still are no good for anything.

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was. And cost reduction for all-rounder is ok as an idea, but 3% is laughable. Bretons get 7%. Yes, imperial is for “all the things” but no one cares about that, we use Magicka or stamina for dps, one or the other. That’s the way this game is designed.

You're remembering that the Argonian passive is once every 45s, and requires you use consumables, while Red Diamond is every 6s, right?

yea its basically the same thing, different proc mechanics.

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe add a magicka bonus and increase cost reduction to 4%?

Imperial is fine and doesnt need anymore fine tuning to the max stats. If you need mag, swap the enchants to get what you need. otherwise they got the unique brawler passives needed to retain racial identity.

Minno

satanio wrote: »

Vertilvius wrote: »

Imperial looks better but still not happy with what they have done. At least they are playable atm. Wish they would rebuff the heal back to 1750 bc lets be honest 333 heal is just stupid lol. Overall at least they listened to us about it bc it was really bad to start with.

Answer to this is this:

Royaji wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was.

@Pevey, What do you need that heal for?

It at least makes them interesting for certain types of solo play. Having it split across all three resources makes it only useful for tanks.

Some people will never be happy. If you have 25k health (and more than that is definitely entering "only useful for tanks" territory) you will have a 10% chance to heal for 1500 on a melee attack. That's pathetic. Old Red Diamond is a meme.

old red diamond did have a %proc chance on every hit of biting jabs

Kilcosu

Is any imperial changes actually testable on pts yet? or is it still not working

macsmooth

I know this is going sound stupid but I’m still trying to get my head around what the imperial looks like now and I’m old very old so it takes a few more brain cells

2k health
2k stamina
Red diamond? Just 3% reduction or 3% reduction and stam mag health back over 6 seconds

Stx

Currently its 2k health, 2k stamina, 3% cost reduction to all abilities including ultimate, plus dodge, sprint, bash, and block (and sneak?), and when consistently dealing direct damage, 50 to 66 magicka, stamina, and health recovery.

It's honestly pretty good. The cost reduction to everything really fits imperials well as a race I think.

If I had to choose something to boost, it would be the recovery since it's not passive and has such a low value.

macsmooth

Stx wrote: »

Currently its 2k health, 2k stamina, 3% cost reduction to all abilities including ultimate, plus dodge, sprint, bash, and block (and sneak?), and when consistently dealing direct damage, 50 to 66 magicka, stamina, and health recovery.

It's honestly pretty good. The cost reduction to everything really fits imperials well as a race I think.

If I had to choose something to boost, it would be the recovery since it's not passive and has such a low value.

Thank you for clearing that up for me it didn’t help that Zos just posted changes and overriding the old patch notes

This current setup I’m actually happy with it’s actually very good, I might make my two necromancer imperials now

I think when it comes to imperials don’t think anything needs tweaking now we should just say “nothing to see here people, let’s move along nothing to see”

josiahva

Minno wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

The 3% is too small to care, the argonian-lite resource return is too small to care and not controllable like it is for argonian. The resource pool advantage is not as high as it was for imperials. Imperials still are no good for anything.

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was. And cost reduction for all-rounder is ok as an idea, but 3% is laughable. Bretons get 7%. Yes, imperial is for “all the things” but no one cares about that, we use Magicka or stamina for dps, one or the other. That’s the way this game is designed.

You're remembering that the Argonian passive is once every 45s, and requires you use consumables, while Red Diamond is every 6s, right?

yea its basically the same thing, different proc mechanics.

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe add a magicka bonus and increase cost reduction to 4%?

Imperial is fine and doesnt need anymore fine tuning to the max stats. If you need mag, swap the enchants to get what you need. otherwise they got the unique brawler passives needed to retain racial identity.

Why are you so dead set against giving imperials a max magicka stat as well? Reduce the health and stam if you have to, but there is no reason not to give imperial at least 1000 max magicka. Your argument is like saying you are going to play a magicka Orc and just use enchants to balance out what you need...enchants are no substitute for what should be built into a race to start with...with imperials supposed to be the jack of all trades(just look at Skyrim) they should have a flat stat bonus for each resource as well...make it 1500/1500/1500, or even 1250/1250/1250, but make them at least competitive with Dunmer for the race of choice for Hybrid builds

Royaji

josiahva wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

The 3% is too small to care, the argonian-lite resource return is too small to care and not controllable like it is for argonian. The resource pool advantage is not as high as it was for imperials. Imperials still are no good for anything.

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was. And cost reduction for all-rounder is ok as an idea, but 3% is laughable. Bretons get 7%. Yes, imperial is for “all the things” but no one cares about that, we use Magicka or stamina for dps, one or the other. That’s the way this game is designed.

You're remembering that the Argonian passive is once every 45s, and requires you use consumables, while Red Diamond is every 6s, right?

yea its basically the same thing, different proc mechanics.

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe add a magicka bonus and increase cost reduction to 4%?

Imperial is fine and doesnt need anymore fine tuning to the max stats. If you need mag, swap the enchants to get what you need. otherwise they got the unique brawler passives needed to retain racial identity.

Why are you so dead set against giving imperials a max magicka stat as well? Reduce the health and stam if you have to, but there is no reason not to give imperial at least 1000 max magicka. Your argument is like saying you are going to play a magicka Orc and just use enchants to balance out what you need...enchants are no substitute for what should be built into a race to start with...with imperials supposed to be the jack of all trades(just look at Skyrim) they should have a flat stat bonus for each resource as well...make it 1500/1500/1500, or even 1250/1250/1250, but make them at least competitive with Dunmer for the race of choice for Hybrid builds

I'm dead set against it because I like where my imperial are since I built them as stamDD and tank. I do not want to loose health or stamina for magicka and 2000 of each will be a serious outlier of passive strength calculation ZOS uses.

One of the points of race changes was to not shift the focus of a race too much. This is why dunmers were swiftly adjusted in 4.3.2 after changes in 4.3.0 moved their focus too much from being a hybrid race. Imperials were never a hybrid race and were always known for having the highest health and stamina bonus.

Minno

Royaji wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

The 3% is too small to care, the argonian-lite resource return is too small to care and not controllable like it is for argonian. The resource pool advantage is not as high as it was for imperials. Imperials still are no good for anything.

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was. And cost reduction for all-rounder is ok as an idea, but 3% is laughable. Bretons get 7%. Yes, imperial is for “all the things” but no one cares about that, we use Magicka or stamina for dps, one or the other. That’s the way this game is designed.

You're remembering that the Argonian passive is once every 45s, and requires you use consumables, while Red Diamond is every 6s, right?

yea its basically the same thing, different proc mechanics.

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe add a magicka bonus and increase cost reduction to 4%?

Imperial is fine and doesnt need anymore fine tuning to the max stats. If you need mag, swap the enchants to get what you need. otherwise they got the unique brawler passives needed to retain racial identity.

Why are you so dead set against giving imperials a max magicka stat as well? Reduce the health and stam if you have to, but there is no reason not to give imperial at least 1000 max magicka. Your argument is like saying you are going to play a magicka Orc and just use enchants to balance out what you need...enchants are no substitute for what should be built into a race to start with...with imperials supposed to be the jack of all trades(just look at Skyrim) they should have a flat stat bonus for each resource as well...make it 1500/1500/1500, or even 1250/1250/1250, but make them at least competitive with Dunmer for the race of choice for Hybrid builds

I'm dead set against it because I like where my imperial are since I built them as stamDD and tank. I do not want to loose health or stamina for magicka and 2000 of each will be a serious outlier of passive strength calculation ZOS uses.

One of the points of race changes was to not shift the focus of a race too much. This is why dunmers were swiftly adjusted in 4.3.2 after changes in 4.3.0 moved their focus too much from being a hybrid race. Imperials were never a hybrid race and were always known for having the highest health and stamina bonus.

AGREED. The 2k stam/health helps you stat swap to more max mag if you want to play a mag toon. It's like having a health/stam version of shacklebreaker.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Oh yeah those arguments sound too much like the massive Altmer whinning. Don't change the passives just because you're used to the racials as they currently are?

Nobody is asking to nerf your stamina bonus. People are asking for their bloody battlemages to be a real thing in ESO aswell.

Seraphayel

I like the changes to Imperials and plan on creating a Warden.

Maybe reduce Stamina to 1250 and give them 750 Magicka instead? Or would that displease pure Stam Imperials?

Royaji

Seraphayel wrote: »

I like the changes to Imperials and plan on creating a Warden.

Maybe reduce Stamina to 1250 and give them 750 Magicka instead? Or would that displease pure Stam Imperials?

Yes. Yes it would. The whole point of Imperial was the highest stam and health bonus. After changes the stam bonus was already equalised with many other races but making Imperial's stam bonus smaller than orc, bosmer, dunmer, redguard and even nord is just a joke. They will literally go from highest stam bonus of all the stam races to the lowest stam bonus and even behind one hybrid race.

J18696

I'm pretty sure adding mag to imperials atm would throw everyone off them who play pure stam not a big fan

josiahva

Royaji wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

The 3% is too small to care, the argonian-lite resource return is too small to care and not controllable like it is for argonian. The resource pool advantage is not as high as it was for imperials. Imperials still are no good for anything.

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was. And cost reduction for all-rounder is ok as an idea, but 3% is laughable. Bretons get 7%. Yes, imperial is for “all the things” but no one cares about that, we use Magicka or stamina for dps, one or the other. That’s the way this game is designed.

You're remembering that the Argonian passive is once every 45s, and requires you use consumables, while Red Diamond is every 6s, right?

yea its basically the same thing, different proc mechanics.

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe add a magicka bonus and increase cost reduction to 4%?

Imperial is fine and doesnt need anymore fine tuning to the max stats. If you need mag, swap the enchants to get what you need. otherwise they got the unique brawler passives needed to retain racial identity.

Why are you so dead set against giving imperials a max magicka stat as well? Reduce the health and stam if you have to, but there is no reason not to give imperial at least 1000 max magicka. Your argument is like saying you are going to play a magicka Orc and just use enchants to balance out what you need...enchants are no substitute for what should be built into a race to start with...with imperials supposed to be the jack of all trades(just look at Skyrim) they should have a flat stat bonus for each resource as well...make it 1500/1500/1500, or even 1250/1250/1250, but make them at least competitive with Dunmer for the race of choice for Hybrid builds

I'm dead set against it because I like where my imperial are since I built them as stamDD and tank. I do not want to loose health or stamina for magicka and 2000 of each will be a serious outlier of passive strength calculation ZOS uses.

One of the points of race changes was to not shift the focus of a race too much. This is why dunmers were swiftly adjusted in 4.3.2 after changes in 4.3.0 moved their focus too much from being a hybrid race. Imperials were never a hybrid race and were always known for having the highest health and stamina bonus.

My preference would be 2000/2000/2000. The fact is, both the Stam and Health pools have already been nerfed from Imperial...and they arent coming back, but there is no harm in adding a 2000 magicka pool as well...it sure helps my PvE tank out a lot to have an extra 2k magicka(especially because they are making time stop so expensive because of incessant PvP whining). And YES IMPERIALS WERE A HYBRID RACE....Health/Stam is just as hybrid as Stam/Magicka....and as I mentioned before...in Skyrim they were a lot more hybrid than that. You are acting like them adding magicka would take away one of the other rss...even if it did...you wouldn't have to worry because "you can always use enchants to balance it out"

Seraphayel

Please get real, 2000 of each resource would be far too much, on top of all the other bonuses Imperials get. They could reduce Stamina and add Magicka but as I said, it might infuriate Stamina Imperial players.

The_Last_Titan

so dodge, break-free, etc are included? i didnt realize, thats pretty good

Royaji

josiahva wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

The 3% is too small to care, the argonian-lite resource return is too small to care and not controllable like it is for argonian. The resource pool advantage is not as high as it was for imperials. Imperials still are no good for anything.

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was. And cost reduction for all-rounder is ok as an idea, but 3% is laughable. Bretons get 7%. Yes, imperial is for “all the things” but no one cares about that, we use Magicka or stamina for dps, one or the other. That’s the way this game is designed.

You're remembering that the Argonian passive is once every 45s, and requires you use consumables, while Red Diamond is every 6s, right?

yea its basically the same thing, different proc mechanics.

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe add a magicka bonus and increase cost reduction to 4%?

Imperial is fine and doesnt need anymore fine tuning to the max stats. If you need mag, swap the enchants to get what you need. otherwise they got the unique brawler passives needed to retain racial identity.

Why are you so dead set against giving imperials a max magicka stat as well? Reduce the health and stam if you have to, but there is no reason not to give imperial at least 1000 max magicka. Your argument is like saying you are going to play a magicka Orc and just use enchants to balance out what you need...enchants are no substitute for what should be built into a race to start with...with imperials supposed to be the jack of all trades(just look at Skyrim) they should have a flat stat bonus for each resource as well...make it 1500/1500/1500, or even 1250/1250/1250, but make them at least competitive with Dunmer for the race of choice for Hybrid builds

I'm dead set against it because I like where my imperial are since I built them as stamDD and tank. I do not want to loose health or stamina for magicka and 2000 of each will be a serious outlier of passive strength calculation ZOS uses.

One of the points of race changes was to not shift the focus of a race too much. This is why dunmers were swiftly adjusted in 4.3.2 after changes in 4.3.0 moved their focus too much from being a hybrid race. Imperials were never a hybrid race and were always known for having the highest health and stamina bonus.

My preference would be 2000/2000/2000. The fact is, both the Stam and Health pools have already been nerfed from Imperial...and they arent coming back, but there is no harm in adding a 2000 magicka pool as well...it sure helps my PvE tank out a lot to have an extra 2k magicka(especially because they are making time stop so expensive because of incessant PvP whining). And YES IMPERIALS WERE A HYBRID RACE....Health/Stam is just as hybrid as Stam/Magicka....and as I mentioned before...in Skyrim they were a lot more hybrid than that. You are acting like them adding magicka would take away one of the other rss...even if it did...you wouldn't have to worry because "you can always use enchants to balance it out"

2000/2000/2000 is 3 full passives worth. Adding magicka will indeed have to take something else. I'm not trading new Red Diamond that is actually useful for once for a magicka bonus that never was on Imperials in the first place.

We are talking ESO here and in ESO Imperials never had a magicka bonus. I don't care what happened in Skyrim.

And the fact that you are trying to argue semantics is cute. Of course I've meant hybrid as a stam/mag hybird since it is how most reasonable people define hybrid. Imperial is a sturdy stamina race. Not a health/stam hybrid.

Seraphayel

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

so dodge, break-free, etc are included? i didnt realize, thats pretty good

It says "all the things". For me this means less Magicka, Stamina, Health, Ultimate costs on every action in the game.

josiahva

Royaji wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

The 3% is too small to care, the argonian-lite resource return is too small to care and not controllable like it is for argonian. The resource pool advantage is not as high as it was for imperials. Imperials still are no good for anything.

I’d prefer the resource return back to a higher amount just for health, like it was. And cost reduction for all-rounder is ok as an idea, but 3% is laughable. Bretons get 7%. Yes, imperial is for “all the things” but no one cares about that, we use Magicka or stamina for dps, one or the other. That’s the way this game is designed.

You're remembering that the Argonian passive is once every 45s, and requires you use consumables, while Red Diamond is every 6s, right?

yea its basically the same thing, different proc mechanics.

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe add a magicka bonus and increase cost reduction to 4%?

Imperial is fine and doesnt need anymore fine tuning to the max stats. If you need mag, swap the enchants to get what you need. otherwise they got the unique brawler passives needed to retain racial identity.

Why are you so dead set against giving imperials a max magicka stat as well? Reduce the health and stam if you have to, but there is no reason not to give imperial at least 1000 max magicka. Your argument is like saying you are going to play a magicka Orc and just use enchants to balance out what you need...enchants are no substitute for what should be built into a race to start with...with imperials supposed to be the jack of all trades(just look at Skyrim) they should have a flat stat bonus for each resource as well...make it 1500/1500/1500, or even 1250/1250/1250, but make them at least competitive with Dunmer for the race of choice for Hybrid builds

I'm dead set against it because I like where my imperial are since I built them as stamDD and tank. I do not want to loose health or stamina for magicka and 2000 of each will be a serious outlier of passive strength calculation ZOS uses.

One of the points of race changes was to not shift the focus of a race too much. This is why dunmers were swiftly adjusted in 4.3.2 after changes in 4.3.0 moved their focus too much from being a hybrid race. Imperials were never a hybrid race and were always known for having the highest health and stamina bonus.

My preference would be 2000/2000/2000. The fact is, both the Stam and Health pools have already been nerfed from Imperial...and they arent coming back, but there is no harm in adding a 2000 magicka pool as well...it sure helps my PvE tank out a lot to have an extra 2k magicka(especially because they are making time stop so expensive because of incessant PvP whining). And YES IMPERIALS WERE A HYBRID RACE....Health/Stam is just as hybrid as Stam/Magicka....and as I mentioned before...in Skyrim they were a lot more hybrid than that. You are acting like them adding magicka would take away one of the other rss...even if it did...you wouldn't have to worry because "you can always use enchants to balance it out"

2000/2000/2000 is 3 full passives worth. Adding magicka will indeed have to take something else. I'm not trading new Red Diamond that is actually useful for once for a magicka bonus that never was on Imperials in the first place.

We are talking ESO here and in ESO Imperials never had a magicka bonus. I don't care what happened in Skyrim.

And the fact that you are trying to argue semantics is cute. Of course I've meant hybrid as a stam/mag hybird since it is how most reasonable people define hybrid. Imperial is a sturdy stamina race. Not a health/stam hybrid.

Its not semantics...Health is a resource...just like stamina is...this is why Imperials were a top choice for tanks...because they combined large amounts of the top 2 resource pools for tanks. Lets do the math shall we?

As they were:
Increases Max Health by 12%
Increases Max Stamina by 10%

Lets take a basic non-health build tank at:
33k health 33000*.12= 3960 health....since health is weighted at roughly 75% of stam or magicka that is 3960*.75= 2970 generic attribute score
30k Stamina 30000*.10=3000 stamina with full weighting is 3000*1.0= 3000 generic attribute score

2970+3000=5970...and yet you claim them adding 2000 magicka to the new flat values of 2000 health(1500 generic) and 2000(2000 generic) stamina for a total of 5500 generic attribute points is too much? Get real....it would STILL be a nerf for total attribute points from live even with the theoretical 2000/2000/2000. The red diamond passive rss regen is pretty worthless anyway and wont make much difference...the 3% cost reduction is nice....together along with flat attributes they would make imperial playable for anything...which is the point. Stop trying to ignore what happened in Skyrim just because you want a stam-focused race that ignores the Imperial battlemage history.

P.S. The nerf from live gets bigger and bigger the more of a health tank you spec into....I just chose every day common 33khealth 30k stam as an example...it could be far worse than that.

Seraphayel

@josiahva you realize that every race was hit by the % to flat numbers change and not just Imperials? That's Altmer have just 2000 Magicka instead of ~ 4000 etc. You can't give Imperials 6000 resources when other races barely get a fraction of that. And compared to other races Imperials indeed have three completely useful passives now. If you want Magicka in top, you have to trade in something. 2000 Health AND Stamina is still a very reasonable amount and one of the highest resource gains of all races (don't know if any other race gets 4000 resources through racials).