Imperial change

Minno

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

I'd be more happy with 500 as the value with a 5s cooldown, or uhh literally anything else at this point, the previous version of 1750 with a 15% sounded better, as of right now there is no personality with imperial.

Agreed. The change currently pigeonhole them into tanks still.

There's nothing versatile about them currently, compared to other classes, anything added feels like a weaker version on a class that's for free.

Here's my changes:
- add crit hit DMG that boosts both your heal and DMG
- return the heal minus the cooldown and keep the Regen
- make Regen a general cost reduction that includes ultimates
- get crit resistance against melee attacks

All of those boost a better well rounded fightee/mage. In fact give imperial ALL of them; drop the max Stam a bit if you needto compensate, especially for the crit hit damage.

Yamenstein

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Too much simple minded thinking here, seeing 258 damage on paper and thinking this put Orcs or Bosmer so far ahead of every other Stamina race but it doesn't.. Sustain is the end all be all for PVP and PVE.

Put it this way, if I can survive their initial damage burst and heal thru it while they are gasping for stamina or magicka any race with sustain will put an end to them. Orcs will have to sacrifice pure damage builds for more sustain sets in order to even be viable in PVP and PVE unless they have healers giving them sustain in a group. Which means you can build more into damage and less sustain because your passive covers it.

Imperials got built in sustain across 3 attributes, thats near Argonian level considering they have an even longer cooldown between potion passives than a 5 sec CD on direct damage.

Quit complaining and learn to play to see how good this is.

It is in fact not argonian levels sir. Please think before you speak about the subject lol. The amount returned will not be noticable when you are actually playing (plus pvp that healing one is nerfed in half so 150ish hp heal will never do anything for you).

Argonians get everything in one big burst meaning they can go from nothing to having a lot. The fact that you are trying to compare these two passives shows you don't know what you are talking about.

On top of that we only get return through "direct damage" meaning we have to build specifically around a bad passive. What if we are low on resources and can't cast a direct damage move? Argonians drink a pot and they are good.

Imperial is far from good and it's a shame I've been imperial since launch.

Yeah, but there is a difference between a noticeable impact and a useful impact. You'll still consistently get resources back on a shorter CD. Yes the amount back isn't equivalent to the Resourceful passive but it's still a return that will add extra skill use during rotations.

They both work very differently from each other, yes.

I just want to confirm as well, light/heavy attacks are counted as direct damage isn't it ? So you won't need resources to proc a light attacks.

Only thing I wish Imperials had were a buff to magicka. Would gladly give up the 5% block cost for that.

Orihara_Izaya

I was pretty hopeful after reading the class meeting notes, but these changes are pretty lame. The should just remove the block cost reduction and make the race even less tank oriented. Compared to all the other races Imperials lack a soul, they are incredibly bland and even with these changes are still horrible.

Banana

I preferred the first patch changes to these ones

Tasear

Looks like a rip off last week Orc.

Lord_Eomer

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Lol first off the skill is broken on test.

Second am I the only one that thinks this skill is awful?

Third did they really even try to get creative with it at all?

Imperial is going to be the main "villain" in the new dlc and the prophet is a imperial magic user, so why do we only get one version of imperial when they are clearly very good at magic. This still makes imperial held into tanking only. They are by far the worst race in the game but yet we had to pay for it lol.

Khajit got buffs, argonians were put right back where they were so that means they will be amazing at everything once again, but yet the race that tested at being the worst race in every category didn't get buffed? Lol nice balance here.

Khajit buff by CM not even an Inch 🤣

sionIV

I can't believe the people who made the changes to Dunmer and Orc are the same that made the changes to Imperial.

actosh

Values for the Return are too Low.
Needs to be at least 500of each 5sec CD.
Get rid of cost reduction and add 2k max Magicka.

Then it might be versatile.

vesselwiththepestle

I like the change to Red Diamond. I am considering to make my Redguard Stam DK an Imperial. The numbers are still very low considering battle spirit and that those numbers won't be buffed like Recovery. At least health should be up to 1000. Maybe reduce the cool down - 333 on 3 stats every 3 seconds. Or make them all +500.

Or they could get a minor +Weapon damage/Spell damage buff. Like 129, not the full 258 treatment other races got... As Imperials didn't get the full sustain treatment, it seems fair to give them some additional damage.

Wuuffyy

actosh wrote: »

Values for the Return are too Low.
Needs to be at least 500of each 5sec CD.
Get rid of cost reduction and add 2k max Magicka.

Then it might be versatile.

Actually stopped caring about balance when I realize they nerf everything indiscriminately (ex stam sorc). Here my suggestion for this paid race.

1) Adds up to 2,000 health, 1,500 stam, and the 1500 mag

2)Reduce cost of block and bash up to 8%

3) Up to 500 tri-resource return on direct damage once every 6 seconds

actosh

I would Change the percentage in Block/bash into flat values.

aeowulf

Yeah the whole % thing needs to go, and from everywhere - it's how to get things under control. At one end of the scale, 5% is going to be worth about 80 stamina, for non-tanks... at the other end, for tanks where this race seems to be headed, it's worth about 10 stamina... you can't balance something that's so varied. Same with every other race that gets a % reduction in something - it's less of a problem there as cost redux isn't stacked as much as block.

I'd also add something like +1 ultimate per 5 secs to Red Diamond (less than Nords) - I did suggest Imperials would be the logical race choice to get ultimate ages ago, as they are they are kinda lonesome in the whole faction thing. Happy to see this resource make an appearance in at least one race though. At the moment this 'unique' thing feels pretty common...

Holycannoli

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I like the change to Red Diamond. I am considering to make my Redguard Stam DK an Imperial. The numbers are still very low considering battle spirit and that those numbers won't be buffed like Recovery. At least health should be up to 1000. Maybe reduce the cool down - 333 on 3 stats every 3 seconds. Or make them all +500.

Or they could get a minor +Weapon damage/Spell damage buff. Like 129, not the full 258 treatment other races got... As Imperials didn't get the full sustain treatment, it seems fair to give them some additional damage.

Lol why would you change from Redguard to Imperial? If anything change to Orc, but Redguard is what Imperial stam players will be changing to.

Imperial needs +2000 magicka/health/stamina and +500 magicka/heatlth/stamina every 5 seconds to make it a viable race with these other buffed races now as options. I know there's no chance they'd ever implement my suggestion for it (a group buff as racial) but if the most they can come up with is +67 magicka/health/stamina per second they aren't even trying.

Mind you this is the race you have to pay for, and no I'm not saying it should be p2w but I am saying they should put some work into making it a versatile race for magicka and stamina, not adding a cheap +67 per second bandaid and calling it a day.

josiahva

actosh wrote: »

Values for the Return are too Low.
Needs to be at least 500of each 5sec CD.
Get rid of cost reduction and add 2k max Magicka.

Then it might be versatile.

^^This would make Imperial perfect

Zekka

Stop asking for magicka, all you will do is turn Imperials into worse Dunmers.
Current Red Diamond sounds better, ZOS should remove the heal part and make it a 500 mag/stam return.
They should also take the block reduction (which is worthless in PvE since it takes effect after all the other bonuses, reducing the cost by 10 stam or so) back.
Then give them physical resistances (about the same as bretons' magick resistances) and a small 129 weapon damage bonus.

Holycannoli

Zekka wrote: »

Stop asking for magicka, all you will do is turn Imperials into worse Dunmers.

Abnur Tharn is a famed and powerful imperial battlemage. Imperials are a versatile race and should have magicka capabilities that rival stamina. Do what a few of us are saying -- +2000 magicka/health/stamina and +500 magicka/health/stamina every 5 seconds -- and they are the versatile race they should be, not just some tank race.

sionIV

1500 Health
2000 Stamina
2975 Physical Armor
Red Diamond: 129 Weapon Damage, 500 health return, 350 stamina return.

I would be happy with something like this.

vesselwiththepestle

Holycannoli wrote: »

Lol why would you change from Redguard to Imperial? If anything change to Orc, but Redguard is what Imperial stam players will be changing to.

Sure, Orc will be the strongest Stamina race by far with these changes, but I don't need the best and I think I could make use of extra 2000 health. It translates directly to one additional stamina enchant instead of a health enchant for me in trials setups. Nevertheless, I had to test the actual sustain of Imperials, but it won't be possible until next week when Red Diamond gets hopefully fixed.

I think Imperials are supposed to be worse than Orcs, Redguards, Bosmer and Dunmers as a Stamina DPS race. So I guess we should be happy for those tiny buffs and not ask for too much, else we get a nerf hammer like Altmer got, lol.

What I found most interesting with Imperials, when I try to fit their passives into the budget of 6.5 set bonuses, I just don't understand how this fits to Imperials. It's like they are missing at least one whole set bonus.

2000 stamina = 1.82
2000 health = 1.65

The problem now is, that you can find block/bash cost reduction only as 5-piece-bonus (Footman's Fortune), as you can find something like Red Diamond only as 5-piece-bonus (like Bloodthorn).

So my assumption is, that block/bash cost reduction is way overpriced in the calculation of Imperials. It would totally make sense. If a 5-piece-equivalent bonus is calculated as 1.5 set boni, this would mean:

Heal/Sustain through Red Diamond = 1.5
Block/Bash cost reduction = 1.5

Which in sum is 6.47

So the ideal solution would be, to get rid of block/bash cost reduction and add something substantial and interesting to Imperials. I wonder all the time, why Imperials don't get some resistances bonus instead of this block/bash cost reduction.

If Imperials would get 2000 magicka, 2000 health, 2000 stamina, this would mean they'd already get 5.29 set boni on ressources alone, leaving only 1.21 set boni for any other passives. So giving Imperials additional magicka might probably be interesting for some niche builds, but I think in the end it would make everything worse.

josiahva

sionIV wrote: »

1500 Health
2000 Stamina
2975 Physical Armor
Red Diamond: 129 Weapon Damage, 500 health return, 350 stamina return.

I would be happy with something like this.

Umm, that would be terrible...its already so easy to max resistances that the phys resistance would be absolutely worthless and encourage pigeonholing into a tank role....much better to have a bonus to magicka pool(which is far more useful for tanks than an extra 3k resistance)

p.s. I suppose the difference could be made up with gear for extra magicka and less resistance in the above situation though, so it wouldn't be as bad as it currently

sionIV

josiahva wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

1500 Health
2000 Stamina
2975 Physical Armor
Red Diamond: 129 Weapon Damage, 500 health return, 350 stamina return.

I would be happy with something like this.

Umm, that would be terrible...its already so easy to max resistances that the phys resistance would be absolutely worthless and encourage pigeonholing into a tank role....much better to have a bonus to magicka pool(which is far more useful for tanks than an extra 3k resistance)

p.s. I suppose the difference could be made up with gear for extra magicka and less resistance in the above situation though, so it wouldn't be as bad as it currently

It would still keep the 'tank' identity, and it would be the opposite of the Breton. So we're keeping the tank identity, and gaining some weapon damage and a stamina resource. It's not perfect, and it's not better than other races, but at least there is some form of identity in it.

Zekka

josiahva wrote: »

Umm, that would be terrible...its already so easy to max resistances that the phys resistance would be absolutely worthless and encourage pigeonholing into a tank role....much better to have a bonus to magicka pool(which is far more useful for tanks than an extra 3k resistance)

Every time I hear that... but no it's not easy to max resistances without investing in CP, said CP could be invested in other areas.
And in PvP resistances are also never a waste with how much penetration some players can have. So ZOS want Imperials to be a tank race then physical resistance is still better than block cost reduction that PvE tanks and PvP players won't even feel.

Lord_Eomer

Changes are indeed very bad to Imperial, was hoping for some damage buff or to be players as Magicka DPS

I will for sure request ZOS for refund my Imperial DLC and going to use race change token on 2 Imperials.

Holycannoli

sionIV wrote: »

It would still keep the 'tank' identity, and it would be the opposite of the Breton. So we're keeping the tank identity, and gaining some weapon damage and a stamina resource. It's not perfect, and it's not better than other races, but at least there is some form of identity in it.

The 'tank' identity is the problem. These are from UESP:

1. Morrowind: "Imperials are a very versatile race. They are considered the most balanced race in Morrowind, and are especially suited for adaptability"
   
2. (I skipped Oblivion. Still haven't played it in 2019 but UESP says "Imperials are one of the most un-directed races in the game classwise, although they have slight bonuses in their Heavy Armor, Blade, and Blunt skills, they really have no restrictions on being a stealthy or magical character, and can be considered the "Jack of All Trades")
   
3. Skyrim: "Imperials' skill bonuses are perfectly balanced between a mage type character and a warrior type. They have lesser bonuses to the Heavy Armor and One-handed skills, but also have bonuses to their Destruction and Restoration skills, making either path, or a combination of the two, equally attractive."

They also historically have abilities that affect other humans, like charm or calm. That can't really be replicated in ESO but their versatility certainly can, and rather easily.

They are not a 'tank' race and we want ZOS to understand this. We don't want them to not be able to tank, but we do want them to be able to do so much more like they've always been able to.

Minno

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Lol why would you change from Redguard to Imperial? If anything change to Orc, but Redguard is what Imperial stam players will be changing to.

Sure, Orc will be the strongest Stamina race by far with these changes, but I don't need the best and I think I could make use of extra 2000 health. It translates directly to one additional stamina enchant instead of a health enchant for me in trials setups. Nevertheless, I had to test the actual sustain of Imperials, but it won't be possible until next week when Red Diamond gets hopefully fixed.

I think Imperials are supposed to be worse than Orcs, Redguards, Bosmer and Dunmers as a Stamina DPS race. So I guess we should be happy for those tiny buffs and not ask for too much, else we get a nerf hammer like Altmer got, lol.

What I found most interesting with Imperials, when I try to fit their passives into the budget of 6.5 set bonuses, I just don't understand how this fits to Imperials. It's like they are missing at least one whole set bonus.

2000 stamina = 1.82
2000 health = 1.65

The problem now is, that you can find block/bash cost reduction only as 5-piece-bonus (Footman's Fortune), as you can find something like Red Diamond only as 5-piece-bonus (like Bloodthorn).

So my assumption is, that block/bash cost reduction is way overpriced in the calculation of Imperials. It would totally make sense. If a 5-piece-equivalent bonus is calculated as 1.5 set boni, this would mean:

Heal/Sustain through Red Diamond = 1.5
Block/Bash cost reduction = 1.5

Which in sum is 6.47

So the ideal solution would be, to get rid of block/bash cost reduction and add something substantial and interesting to Imperials. I wonder all the time, why Imperials don't get some resistances bonus instead of this block/bash cost reduction.

If Imperials would get 2000 magicka, 2000 health, 2000 stamina, this would mean they'd already get 5.29 set boni on ressources alone, leaving only 1.21 set boni for any other passives. So giving Imperials additional magicka might probably be interesting for some niche builds, but I think in the end it would make everything worse.

Get rid of the block/bash, agreed. Drop the max Stam down slightly. Add crit hit DMG and return the heal passive with a slight Regen to mag/Stam.

Now we havea flexible brawler that can be a crit based.

Excelsus

Holycannoli wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

It would still keep the 'tank' identity, and it would be the opposite of the Breton. So we're keeping the tank identity, and gaining some weapon damage and a stamina resource. It's not perfect, and it's not better than other races, but at least there is some form of identity in it.

The 'tank' identity is the problem. These are from UESP:

1. Morrowind: "Imperials are a very versatile race. They are considered the most balanced race in Morrowind, and are especially suited for adaptability"
   
2. (I skipped Oblivion. Still haven't played it in 2019 but UESP says "Imperials are one of the most un-directed races in the game classwise, although they have slight bonuses in their Heavy Armor, Blade, and Blunt skills, they really have no restrictions on being a stealthy or magical character, and can be considered the "Jack of All Trades")
   
3. Skyrim: "Imperials' skill bonuses are perfectly balanced between a mage type character and a warrior type. They have lesser bonuses to the Heavy Armor and One-handed skills, but also have bonuses to their Destruction and Restoration skills, making either path, or a combination of the two, equally attractive."

They also historically have abilities that affect other humans, like charm or calm. That can't really be replicated in ESO but their versatility certainly can, and rather easily.

They are not a 'tank' race and we want ZOS to understand this. We don't want them to not be able to tank, but we do want them to be able to do so much more like they've always been able to.

This x100. I love Imperials, their lore, their looks even the extra gold passive because I spend a lot of time farming and I just want to be able to make an imperial mage and not feel like I'm throwing my whole race away. They don't have to be Altmer or Khajiit(???) level but their passives should be VERSATILE. Even nords and redguards now have bonuses that would help them be mages.

Holycannoli

Excelsus wrote: »

This x100. I love Imperials, their lore, their looks even the extra gold passive because I spend a lot of time farming and I just want to be able to make an imperial mage and not feel like I'm throwing my whole race away. They don't have to be Altmer or Khajiit(???) level but their passives should be VERSATILE. Even nords and redguards now have bonuses that would help them be mages.

Well right now on PTS you're throwing your whole race away no matter what role you choose.

ZOS has no idea what imperials are. I've played as imperial since Morrowind. They're never the best at any one thing - altmer and breton will always out-magicka them and reguard and orc will always out-stamina them - but nobody can do it all like they can. That's imperial.

Except now they're making khajiit the versatile race. Wtf ZOS do you not even know Elder Scrolls?

The_Last_Titan

The stamina bonus imperial was given in eso turned them into a less versatile race. In former games had high intelligence (morrowind) and starting bonuses to restoration/destruction (skyrim).

i would explore other ways of making them versatile without just giving them magicka. get rid of the stamina, but make the resource sustain better/add cost reduction.

maybe 2.5k health
500/500/500 every 5 secs red diamond
6% reduce cost of all abilities and block/bash

edit: might make it 2k health, 500 mag/stam, feel like its hard to get them close to others as dps without giving them the 7% reduced cost which would tie them with breton, like giving them too much red diamond or too much reduction, so maybe some max stat.

luen79rwb17_ESO

This racial would have to be tested. I don't think 66 p/s recovery is that bad when it translates to 122 of your character's recovery pool (as it is recovery per 2 secs). That's slightly less than an extra purple recovery jewlery rune for EACH stat.

Seeing it that way it can be really strong especially in PVP.

vesselwiththepestle

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

This racial would have to be tested. I don't think 66 p/s recovery is that bad when it translates to 122 of your character's recovery pool (as it is recovery per 2 secs). That's slightly less than an extra purple recovery jewlery rune for EACH stat.

Seeing it that way it can be really strong especially in PVP.

1. Yes, I believe it can be useful in PVP. It has to be tested, though.

2. Actual recovery would get buffed by everything which buffs your recovery - the Red Diamond passiv doesn't. So you can't really say 66 p/s equals 122 rec. It's probably more around 80-100 rec, depending on class passives etc., so similar to Khajiit sustain I think. Maybe someone wants to do the math, I don't see the point though as long as the ability doesn't work anyway.

Nser

i agreed with 2k magicka stamina health
imperial should be like that so w.e class stamina or magicka or tank even hybrid can use it
@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler