Imperial change

Kidgangster101

Lol first off the skill is broken on test.

Second am I the only one that thinks this skill is awful?

Third did they really even try to get creative with it at all?

Imperial is going to be the main "villain" in the new dlc and the prophet is a imperial magic user, so why do we only get one version of imperial when they are clearly very good at magic. This still makes imperial held into tanking only. They are by far the worst race in the game but yet we had to pay for it lol.

Khajit got buffs, argonians were put right back where they were so that means they will be amazing at everything once again, but yet the race that tested at being the worst race in every category didn't get buffed? Lol nice balance here.

Kilcosu

I had hoped they would do something clever for imperials with a rework of red diamond but doing some rough calculations it looks really bad

333 stat gain with 5 seconds cool down is seriously spread thin.
that's 66 stat recovery over 5 seconds if broken down that way.

i'm not of the opinion that this was a good change for imperials. i'm not speaking from a tank perspective merely from a race perspective.

(note that they even admit spreading orc passives too thin while fixing them)

Sandman929

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Lol first off the skill is broken on test.

Second am I the only one that thinks this skill is awful?

Third did they really even try to get creative with it at all?

Imperial is going to be the main "villain" in the new dlc and the prophet is a imperial magic user, so why do we only get one version of imperial when they are clearly very good at magic. This still makes imperial held into tanking only. They are by far the worst race in the game but yet we had to pay for it lol.

Khajit got buffs, argonians were put right back where they were so that means they will be amazing at everything once again, but yet the race that tested at being the worst race in every category didn't get buffed? Lol nice balance here.

LOL..I was just thinking this in another post. The worlds most powerful necromancer with crappy tanking racial passives. He's overcome so much.

Lughlongarm

Kilcosu wrote: »

I had hoped they would do something clever for imperials with a rework of red diamond but doing some rough calculations it looks really bad

333 stat gain with 5 seconds cool down is seriously spread thin.
that's 66 stat recovery over 5 seconds if broken down that way.

i'm not of the opinion that this was a good change for imperials. i'm not speaking from a tank perspective merely from a race perspective.

(note that they even admit spreading orc passives too thin while fixing them)

I think you don't read this right. It will restore 333 magicka, 333 stamina, 333 health. Which is 75% of the Argonians potion sustain passive(after today's buff) which considered top tier sustain passive.

J18696

They should of removed the block bash costs given them a dmg buff to wep and spell red diamond heal is pretty much useless in pvp and the resource gain from it will probs be hard to notice at best SUPER disappointed

simeion

Imperial is locked behind a pay wall and if any race should be P2W it should be this one. There should be a reason to want to buy and play and imperial. I am not asking for and OP race and I currently have no idea what to do with the Red Diamond passive. This race needs to be reexamined.

James-Wayne

Yep disappointed big time! I would much rather have a stronger heal then a weak return on everything.

I use Imperial so I can swap between Tank/StamDPS by just changing sets, this is the appeal it has for me but now that is lost. The heal allowed by biting jabs to act like puncturing sweeps but for stamDPS. Was so good, especially in vMA.

Please fix, again before it hits live.

mb10

why dont they ask players opinons FIRST?

Its always lets come up with something stupid then ask what the players think after

KaraBela94

Imperial
Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → No changes
Tough: Gain 12% Max Health → Increases your Max Health by 2000.
Conditioning: Gain 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → Reworked this passive so when you deal Direct Damage now, you restore 600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. It also will increase your Weapon and Spelldamage by 174. / It also will increase your Weapon and Spelldamage by 6%

This would suit Imperials more/b]

Varana

Sandman929 wrote: »

The worlds most powerful necromancer with crappy tanking racial passives. He's overcome so much.

WTS hyperbole
WTB perspective

bpmachete

I think Imperials are still not gonna be what they were. Especially in comparison. Before if you wanted the highest tooltip for Stam PvP the Imperial was good because it had more stam than Orc Wood Elf and Nord which meant it could hit harder with the same sets. Now not only did the wood elf get to the same level and will now have penetration after a roll dodge, the orcs now completely dwarfed them.

The Orc had gotten 500 stam 500 health AND 258 weapon damage which scales I believe. So that already had them above Imperial, with 258 without counting scaling which is the equivalent of 2700+. Imperials had only 1500 more stam than them. Now the Orc has the 258 weapon damage AND the same stamina as Imperial, plus only 1000 less health. There would be no reason at all to pick Imperial, the Rediamond is too weak to compensate such a huge difference in weapon damage and stam combo.

If they give more health and stam and make the Rediamond actually help with Sustain to the point it would be noticable maybe there could something to it, but Orc is OP right now, that extra Weapon damage on Orcs and Dark Elves btw is amazing, and now the extra stam to equal the Imperial make Imperial not worth it, not even a significant health gain in attacking. It went from 6% once in a while to like 1.5% maybe being generous and the magicka and stamina by themselves are too weak of a return. Maybe 500-800 return would make them viable in comparison.

bpmachete

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I think you don't read this right. It will restore 333 magicka, 333 stamina, 333 health. Which is 75% of the Argonians potion sustain passive(after today's buff) which considered top tier sustain passive.

The Argonian passive doesn't require them to do a direct attack every 5 seconds for 45 seconds to get the resources, they just get them in a burst which is nice. In what you are saying the person would have to spend at the very least 1000 stam every 5 seconds to get back the 333. Do you see how it's really not that good. The Redguard has 900 which is about three times better, and can be noticed because its a chunk, and in combination with the recovery lets say 2000, now it can be noticed. The 333 is too weak is what we are saying. I hope they can put it to 500 at the very least.

It might be alright for tanking with a heavy attack, so I give you a point there, but for attacking characters it's not the same.

Twohothardware

Red Diamond should of been changed to give Stamina return every 4-5 seconds when you successfully block direct damage. That combined with 5% reduced block cost and 5% extra damage blocked would of been perfect.

Holycannoli

What would people think if they gave imperials +2000 magicka/health/stamina and +333 magicka/health/stamina every 5 seconds? That would at least make them a versatile race.

J18696

Keep red diamond as it was before with no cooldown 1700 heal remove the useless block bash part of the passive for flat skill reduction maybe something similar to what bretons had 3% to everything

NobleX35

Twohothardware wrote: »

Red Diamond should of been changed to give Stamina return every 4-5 seconds when you successfully block direct damage. That combined with 5% reduced block cost and 5% extra damage blocked would of been perfect.

That sounds horrible and limits imperials to only a tanking role. The change they made was in the right direction, but the numbers are too low.

With that said Imperials are basically garbage right now in comparison to other races, especially Orcs. Imperials need a proper buff to make them competitive with other races. Their stats should probably be increased on all 3 levels and the block and bash reduction needs to be reworked as well. The percentage decreases will basically amount to nothing because of diminishing returns due the multiplicative nature of the formula.

bpmachete

J18696 wrote: »

Keep red diamond as it was before with no cooldown 1700 heal remove the useless block bash part of the passive for flat skill reduction maybe something similar to what bretons had 3% to everything

Maybe instead of 5% to block and bash, make it to all abilities like battlefield acrobat. That would make Imperials competitive.

Rex-Umbra

KaraBela94 wrote: »

Imperial
Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → No changes
Tough: Gain 12% Max Health → Increases your Max Health by 2000.
Conditioning: Gain 10% Max Stamina → Imperial Mettle: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.
Red Diamond: 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → Reworked this passive so when you deal Direct Damage now, you restore 600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. It also will increase your Weapon and Spelldamage by 174. / It also will increase your Weapon and Spelldamage by 6%

This would suit Imperials more/b]

I would play this

Lughlongarm

bpmachete wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

I think you don't read this right. It will restore 333 magicka, 333 stamina, 333 health. Which is 75% of the Argonians potion sustain passive(after today's buff) which considered top tier sustain passive.

The Argonian passive doesn't require them to do a direct attack every 5 seconds for 45 seconds to get the resources, they just get them in a burst which is nice. In what you are saying the person would have to spend at the very least 1000 stam every 5 seconds to get back the 333. Do you see how it's really not that good. The Redguard has 900 which is about three times better, and can be noticed because its a chunk, and in combination with the recovery lets say 2000, now it can be noticed. The 333 is too weak is what we are saying. I hope they can put it to 500 at the very least.

It might be alright for tanking with a heavy attack, so I give you a point there, but for attacking characters it's not the same.

Almost sure that some AOE skiils like sorc Hurricane or the DW skill are considered as direct attack, so you can get it passively.

IronWooshu

Too much simple minded thinking here, seeing 258 damage on paper and thinking this put Orcs or Bosmer so far ahead of every other Stamina race but it doesn't.. Sustain is the end all be all for PVP and PVE.

Put it this way, if I can survive their initial damage burst and heal thru it while they are gasping for stamina or magicka any race with sustain will put an end to them. Orcs will have to sacrifice pure damage builds for more sustain sets in order to even be viable in PVP and PVE unless they have healers giving them sustain in a group. Which means you can build more into damage and less sustain because your passive covers it.

Imperials got built in sustain across 3 attributes, thats near Argonian level considering they have an even longer cooldown between potion passives than a 5 sec CD on direct damage.

Quit complaining and learn to play to see how good this is.

TiZzA93

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler idk anyone else to tag

Imperial

2000 health
2000 stamina and magika
Legions might (ditch the cursed red name): Increases dmg done by 1/2/3% and reduces cost of ALL abilities by 1/2/3%

Don't think its too OP or P2W as its minimal sustain so will NOT be bis but opens up option for both dps roles, all ability cost reduction will help tanks and healers too warhorn for example. Zos use this pls loving most of the balances elsewhere i prefer high elfs regen u introduced in first pts and also the lower potion passive, think the lizard could go 3500 potion then 1k mag and stam then my imperial suggestion and everything would be perfectly balanced.

Yamenstein

Red Diamond is bugged right now, correct ? Sucks we can't test it properly. When does Wrathstone come out ? Was hoping for at least another round of iteration on the racials.

With 4.3.2
Imperial Red Diamond: 333 Magika, Stamina, Health every 5 seconds, procing on direct damage.
Argonian Resourceful: 4000 Magicka, Stamina, Health with each potion use which has a CD of 45 seconds. So 444 Magicka, Stamina, Health every 5 seconds worth.

Doesn't light and heavy attacks count as direct damage? Apart from lightning and healing staves.

Doesnt a typical DPS rotation weave light attacks between each skill use? So wouldn't that consistently proc Red Diamond?

Sounds pretty good to me but would be awesome if someone can test it and see how well it works 😊

Kidgangster101

IronWooshu wrote: »

Too much simple minded thinking here, seeing 258 damage on paper and thinking this put Orcs or Bosmer so far ahead of every other Stamina race but it doesn't.. Sustain is the end all be all for PVP and PVE.

Put it this way, if I can survive their initial damage burst and heal thru it while they are gasping for stamina or magicka any race with sustain will put an end to them. Orcs will have to sacrifice pure damage builds for more sustain sets in order to even be viable in PVP and PVE unless they have healers giving them sustain in a group. Which means you can build more into damage and less sustain because your passive covers it.

Imperials got built in sustain across 3 attributes, thats near Argonian level considering they have an even longer cooldown between potion passives than a 5 sec CD on direct damage.

Quit complaining and learn to play to see how good this is.

It is in fact not argonian levels sir. Please think before you speak about the subject lol. The amount returned will not be noticable when you are actually playing (plus pvp that healing one is nerfed in half so 150ish hp heal will never do anything for you).

Argonians get everything in one big burst meaning they can go from nothing to having a lot. The fact that you are trying to compare these two passives shows you don't know what you are talking about.

On top of that we only get return through "direct damage" meaning we have to build specifically around a bad passive. What if we are low on resources and can't cast a direct damage move? Argonians drink a pot and they are good.

Imperial is far from good and it's a shame I've been imperial since launch.

NinchiTV

I'd be more happy with 500 as the value with a 5s cooldown, or uhh literally anything else at this point, the previous version of 1750 with a 15% sounded better, as of right now there is no personality with imperial.

Silver_Strider

I'm fine with this form of Red Diamond in its entirety. I did wish that Imperial got a Max Magic Buff somewhere in their passives but on the whole, it feels like a good spot for them in general to be in. Their sustain is 75% of Argonians with Double their Max resource total so they'll be solid Tanks and their Stamina DPS shouldn't be so low that it's entirely worthless; it should feel similar to how it is on live in terms of overall performance.

IronWooshu

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

Too much simple minded thinking here, seeing 258 damage on paper and thinking this put Orcs or Bosmer so far ahead of every other Stamina race but it doesn't.. Sustain is the end all be all for PVP and PVE.

Put it this way, if I can survive their initial damage burst and heal thru it while they are gasping for stamina or magicka any race with sustain will put an end to them. Orcs will have to sacrifice pure damage builds for more sustain sets in order to even be viable in PVP and PVE unless they have healers giving them sustain in a group. Which means you can build more into damage and less sustain because your passive covers it.

Imperials got built in sustain across 3 attributes, thats near Argonian level considering they have an even longer cooldown between potion passives than a 5 sec CD on direct damage.

Quit complaining and learn to play to see how good this is.

It is in fact not argonian levels sir. Please think before you speak about the subject lol. The amount returned will not be noticable when you are actually playing (plus pvp that healing one is nerfed in half so 150ish hp heal will never do anything for you).

Argonians get everything in one big burst meaning they can go from nothing to having a lot. The fact that you are trying to compare these two passives shows you don't know what you are talking about.

On top of that we only get return through "direct damage" meaning we have to build specifically around a bad passive. What if we are low on resources and can't cast a direct damage move? Argonians drink a pot and they are good.

Imperial is far from good and it's a shame I've been imperial since launch.

I never said Argonian level, I said near Argonian level. Every 45 seconds you can restore just shy 3k health, stamina and magicka combined with other forms of sustain from heavy attacks, class passives, sets etc

Everyone was complaining that they wanted Imperial to be a hybrid race and here you go.

UrQuan

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

On top of that we only get return through "direct damage" meaning we have to build specifically around a bad passive. What if we are low on resources and can't cast a direct damage move?

Did you know that light attacks are a thing?

Tholian1

It would be nice if the newest change didn’t come broken and unable to be tested. I suspect this will be going to live without anymore changes to it.

manny254

Kilcosu wrote: »

I had hoped they would do something clever for imperials with a rework of red diamond but doing some rough calculations it looks really bad

333 stat gain with 5 seconds cool down is seriously spread thin.
that's 66 stat recovery over 5 seconds if broken down that way.

i'm not of the opinion that this was a good change for imperials. i'm not speaking from a tank perspective merely from a race perspective.

(note that they even admit spreading orc passives too thin while fixing them)

The regen stat shown on the character sheet ticks every two seconds. Meaning this passive has a potential of 133.2 stat card regen. Which is decent, but imo it should be 500 every 5 seconds (or a possible 200 regen). It would still be around half of what the Redguard passive gives(950 or 380 regen).

Minno

manny254 wrote: »

Kilcosu wrote: »

I had hoped they would do something clever for imperials with a rework of red diamond but doing some rough calculations it looks really bad

333 stat gain with 5 seconds cool down is seriously spread thin.
that's 66 stat recovery over 5 seconds if broken down that way.

i'm not of the opinion that this was a good change for imperials. i'm not speaking from a tank perspective merely from a race perspective.

(note that they even admit spreading orc passives too thin while fixing them)

The regen stat shown on the character sheet ticks every two seconds. Meaning this passive has a potential of 133.2 stat card regen. Which is decent, but imo it should be 500 every 5 seconds (or a possible 200 regen). It would still be around half of what the Redguard passive gives(950 or 380 regen).

Agreed. But it still feels as though imperial lost it's soul and nothing you can give it will bring back the brawly mage/warrior identity it was about to have.

Along with this Regen, the 2k Stam/health, it should get crit hit DMG that boosts your healing+DMG. This would be interesting and unique.

Minno

Tholian1 wrote: »

It would be nice if the newest change didn’t come broken and unable to be tested. I suspect this will be going to live without anymore changes to it.

Yup. Wasted Dev time lol