Incoming Time Stop Change

AlienatedGoat

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Change seems fine, such skills are destroying ESO.

You guys realize that PvP is a very small minority right?

If anything, PvP is destroying ESO with endless calls for nerfs.

Minno

Vapirko wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Great change. Now classes that need a good stun can get it and this ability stops becoming a spammed buggy mess.

For 8k cost though, it should give you a tiny defensive buff. Maybe drop the cost to 6k but add a channel to the other morph so it can use the major protection.

Nah man, it doesn’t need a buff. It was already OP. Nerfing and then buffing at this stage doesn’t make sense. We need to see it in action with this change first.

You don't need to test to know 8k cost is too high.

Know how I know? Hasty prayer; 6-7k cost after reductions and does nothing aside from burning mag. Nobody slots it because it doesn't do anything to justify casting it at high cost.


Everyone's just going to spam ranged cc on you anyway, might as well give some pve tanks some love with the change lol

brandonv516

Manifestation of Terror now becomes more valuable at the reduced cost! Sweet.

Excelsus

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Change seems fine, such skills are destroying ESO.

You guys realize that PvP is a very small minority right?

If anything, PvP is destroying ESO with endless calls for nerfs.

Yet if you go on the forums you'd swear this game was nothing but Cyrodill. Every class complaining about whatever killed them last night and demanding everything nerfed back into the stone age. Yes, lets all just throw mudballs at each other. Can you guys please run back to CSGO and stop strangling our game? Even my DK tank relies on Time Stop for scarabs in vFL HM and the wolves in vMHK and vMoS and my NB tank is just screwed, again.

NBrookus

I'd rather see it fixed more permanently, for example the snare being well outside the radius of the time stop circle.

But in the meantime, the cost increase is a good interim measure. You can either use it *selectively* or if you want to be a chronomancer who spams it, get ready to invest everything into cost reduction and regen.

Ocelot9x

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Change seems fine, such skills are destroying ESO.

You guys realize that PvP is a very small minority right?

If anything, PvP is destroying ESO with endless calls for nerfs.

You guys realize that also pvp players are complaining about those changes?
Time stop isn’t like eos that if 24 people runs it you absolutely have no chances (or permafrost), the skill is a great tool when outnumbered.

BaylorCorvette

Solid change. Great work ZoS!

Steelshiv

I use time stop regularly in Cyrodiil and it is useful only in very specific circumstances - but I keep it slotted on my back bar for the psijic passives.

Situation One is its use in breach. Time stop slows the enemy down so that siege can hit them easier thereby denying a push. Counterplay for this situation is to watch and time the casting, slip by, and interrupt/ranged interrupt/kill the caster.

Alternatively you could time the casting, get hit with the SLOW part of the ability (NOT the full stun), use the purify synergy, and walk through it due to the following immunity <- I've done this a few times myself.

Situation Two is its use in pulling cloaked players out of stealth or denying the enemy an easy regrouping/stack-push/retreat. I hate dealing with cloak-blades and use this as a weak gap closer. The aforementioned workarounds can be applied in this situation with an additional workaround which is just roll Dodge or move out of the way. Time Stop is painfully easy to avoid anywhere but in tight spaces.

Situation Three Any other time I use it is just because I like the noise it makes when the bubble appears. I frequently walk into them in Cyrodiil when I'm not in danger of dying because the silence effect is nice. <- probably why I know so much about counterplay.

I am against most nerfs of any kind including on things that I hate and wish would go away - looking at YOU cloak... I spend (noncontinuous) HOURS chasing the same NBs around resources - ZoS tends to nerf with a sledgehammer and rarely takes them back in a timely manner.

As far as how I feel about the increase Magicka cost - it won't stop me from using it when I need to nor will it slow the frequency of me using it (at least for me (Magsorc)) A better adjustment, in addition to cost increase would be to make Time Stop the level 10 skill in the tree and have the (buggy as all hell) meditation be a secondary 10 or a level 9 skill in the tree. The TEDIOUS nature of the Psijic questline should prevent filthy casuals from getting it easily.

To wrap this up though id like to encourage anyone who thinks a skill should be nerfed or changed to slot the skill - if possible - and use it themselves. In addition to it just being good practice it's also useful in finding workarounds and getting familiar with the skill.

*Rant DONE* If you made it to the end you have the greater attention span. I'm very much so in the "I ain't readin' all that ***" camp and thank you for your time.

ZeroXFF

This change makes it entirely unusable for tanks in PvE that have no reliable CC (NBs, Templars). Again PvP ruining the game.

IzzyStardust

Excelsus wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Change seems fine, such skills are destroying ESO.

You guys realize that PvP is a very small minority right?

If anything, PvP is destroying ESO with endless calls for nerfs.

Yet if you go on the forums you'd swear this game was nothing but Cyrodill. Every class complaining about whatever killed them last night and demanding everything nerfed back into the stone age. Yes, lets all just throw mudballs at each other. Can you guys please run back to CSGO and stop strangling our game? Even my DK tank relies on Time Stop for scarabs in vFL HM and the wolves in vMHK and vMoS and my NB tank is just screwed, again.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
^ THIS. And when people are ALL TIME STOP DOESN'T GET USED IN END GAME.

People MIGHT JUST be using things differently to whatever bothers you in Cyrodiil.

IzzyStardust

ZeroXFF wrote: »

This change makes it entirely unusable for tanks in PvE that have no reliable CC (NBs, Templars). Again PvP ruining the game.

That's what I was talking about before - some tanks are using it - for AOE CC etc - and they just DUMPED on them all because of the tiny % of actual players in the Discord *Thanks Reps* for repping only yourselves, again.

That cost is excessive.

IzzyStardust

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

One of the better 1vX spells in the game... RIP

Well, you know, it seems that ZOS follows safe road to appeal majority of players, so meta-chasers and zergs will be always in favorable position and everything else that somehow opposes, will be nerfed.

NO IT DOES NOT - this followed the class reps - and their discord which is not at all the MAJORITY.

FrankonPC

Looks like a perfect change to me. The skill does so much in such a large area, any group can use this they just have to use it tactically.

Lucky28

Iskiab wrote: »

Bad change. Instead of keeping the skill and allowing the game to evolve into a decent pvp game it looks like the dev team will nerf any counters to ball groups because of forum whining.

So pvp will stay clustered ball groups and whoever executes the same strategy best wins? A game like that isn’t worth playing.

my experience with time stops is; a groups 24-30 people spamming time stop on a group of 4 people.... it needs a change, i think the best for it personally would be to make it a friendly fire ability. i mean you're stopping time in an area so that makes sense. Yes, that would more than likely lead to griefing, but still.

Wuuffyy

Idinuse wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Gina posted notes from the meeting with the class reps today. These notes contained the quoted change to Time Stop.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good evening everyone!

Miscellaneous mechanics

Time Stop: ZOS is raising the cost to 8100 magicka and indicated they are willing to make further adjustments If necessary.

This Time Stop change is bad, and will make the skill worse to deal with. The cost increase ensures that only larger groups will be able to run the skill. One of the areas where this skill is at its worst is a breach. This cost increase won't have any effect there since there are multiple people constantly keeping the skill up. This change also ensures only large groups will run this skill, as any small or medium scale group can not justify the cost of using Time Stop. My solution to fixing this skill would be to remove the snare, and keep the cost the same. This change would allow any size group to run the skill, and remove the most frustrating part of this skill, as well as allow counterplay. The current proposed change will not fix any issues with the skill. It will only make Time Stop worse as it will remove the tool from those who need it most.

This is so bloody pathetic. The clearly vastly OP stealth crowd has reigned this game for far far far too long. No less than 3 DLCs catered to their play style, Imperial City, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood. They have had an Easy Mode for the better part of this games' history and ANY counter to their completely broken Cloaking is always whined about and Zos caters to this crying crowd through back channels I'm sure, EVERY TIME.

But hey 12 second duration Caltrops snare (3511 Stamina) is so ok, right? Stamina FTW.

Now it's crystal clear that the new combat team management is nothing but same sh*t different flies

Wut?

First a little fact check here. The snare from caltrops only lasts 1 second unless one does not have enough sense to get out of the caltrops. I have not seen a change to this skill on the PTS.

Second, I play a NB and I do not complain about counters to my cloak as I happen to enjoy using those counters to catch and kill NBs. I do laugh at those complaining about cloak because they clearly have not tried to figure out how to use the counters.

It almost seems that you meant to post this in a different thread somewhere.

As opposed to the common sense to get out of the Time Freeze red circle while it's channeling? And when Zergs place bombard carpets of Caltrops and there's nowhere to roll out of it? And why wouldn't it be spammed, it's only 3K Stam. Come on. People always grasp for straws to justify a nerf to a counter that is so desperately needed in the game, but spoils an I Win button.

It's so old by now.

And it certainly is not "almost seems that" at all.

You know what? I'd gladly take a complete removal of the snare, but leave the stun and cost as is. How about that? Let's see if it's the snare that is the problem here or the Cloak break.

Lol this and the one trash can that made a nerf timestop thread ugh.

usmcjdking

Iskiab wrote: »

Bad change. Instead of keeping the skill and allowing the game to evolve into a decent pvp game it looks like the dev team will nerf any counters to ball groups because of forum whining.

So pvp will stay clustered ball groups and whoever executes the same strategy best wins? A game like that isn’t worth playing.

Time Stopping a ball group is literally the best thing you could do for them. I'd prefer a CP 10 light attack spammer over a timestop spammer when combatting a ball group. A zero damage CC with a snare that is basically ignored and a secondary effect that's purgeable is absolutely crippling to people who are responsible for starting or causing a raid wipe.

You are one of those low impact players that think they have high impact because "my timestop spam" when in reality all you are doing is preventing good players from having follow up damage or creating kill windows because the enemy has near permanent CC immunity.

Time Stop is really only good against inferior numbers who don't have the utility to deal with CC's on cooldown or constant snares.

karekiz

NoThInG EvEr GeTs NeRfEd BeCaUsE oF PeE VeE PeE

Can't the devs just alter how it works in PvP instead of butching the skill for tanks?

Or better yet give all tanks a form of base CC <Which I thought time stop was ZoS answer but I guess not?>

FrankonPC

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

You guys realize that PvP is a very small minority right?

If anything, PvP is destroying ESO with endless calls for nerfs.

I think the PVP population is quite aware that it is the minority and the numbers are dwindling after the Murkmire patch. You're just reinforcing the PVP'ers point of view with this statement though because the reason it's dwindling is because of imbalance, poor performance, and poor gameplay mechanics.

BahometZ

Ugh. This is so frustrating. Devs listening to the squeaky wheels calling for nerfs.

- Sometimes you lose. Get over it.
- You can't and shouldn't always win 1vX or 2/3vX.
- There are organised ball groups that will smash your zerg apart.
- Sometimes you lose and it doesn't come down to just skill, or communication, or specific skills, sometimes it comes down to team composition. There are a lot of ways to get your ass handed to you.
- There is a much longer list of skills than you realise that you will find on your death recap. Every class has abilities that we eyeroll at. It's in our nature to feel every loss is unjust.
- Instead of whinging about this or that. Readjust your gear/playstyle/skills/tactics.

If the enemy is very strong in one location, then go where they are not.


"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious." - Sun Tzu

"Stop calling for nerfs, git gud and learn to play." - also Sun Tzu

Steelshiv

Lucky28 wrote: »

needs a change, i think the best for it personally would be to make it a friendly fire ability. i mean you're stopping time in an area so that makes sense. Yes, that would more than likely lead to griefing, but still.

I would time stop myself so much for fun. In all seriousness though, as a Magsorc I use it for the "GTFOff-of-me-i-need-a-breather" effect when 1vx'ing. It's very useful there

Iskiab

usmcjdking wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Bad change. Instead of keeping the skill and allowing the game to evolve into a decent pvp game it looks like the dev team will nerf any counters to ball groups because of forum whining.

So pvp will stay clustered ball groups and whoever executes the same strategy best wins? A game like that isn’t worth playing.

Time Stopping a ball group is literally the best thing you could do for them. I'd prefer a CP 10 light attack spammer over a timestop spammer when combatting a ball group. A zero damage CC with a snare that is basically ignored and a secondary effect that's purgeable is absolutely crippling to people who are responsible for starting or causing a raid wipe.

Garbage, totally wrong. You think 20 people need help against 4? 20v4, so your concern is how enjoyable the 4 die?

If this is what you think then you should be encouraging a reduction in it’s cost because having it cast on you helps you - I’m calling you out on your BS.

Solariken

This is a good change IMO. The only place Time Stop is a big problem and performing too well is BGs. The new cost should discourage spamming it over and over and ruining the BG experience for everyone.

AlienatedGoat

FrankonPC wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

You guys realize that PvP is a very small minority right?

If anything, PvP is destroying ESO with endless calls for nerfs.

I think the PVP population is quite aware that it is the minority and the numbers are dwindling after the Murkmire patch. You're just reinforcing the PVP'ers point of view with this statement though because the reason it's dwindling is because of imbalance, poor performance, and poor gameplay mechanics.

Lol, PvP has always been niche and an extremely small subset of players in ESO. Don't kid yourself.

CatchMeTrolling

Cost is a bit high but it definitely needs a nerf in open world. Maybe increasing the cost for consecutive uses would be better and giving it a slight cost increase.

Kalle_Demos

This alteration is heavy handed and in my opinion unnecessary. If the skill must be tweaked then tweak it. Don't drop it down the well with Samara.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

LOL. Well, PVPers asked for nerfs and got it now you want more nerfs.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Witar wrote: »

People were using this skill on tanks without roots in pve, with that cost increase that will not be possible. Shame.

Yep. PVP whine has hurt PVE again.

Jhalin

Literally all they had to do was remove the snare

mrpaxman

The following i posted in another thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5790140#Comment_5790140

"Time Stop: ZOS is raising the cost to 8100 magicka and indicated they are willing to make further adjustments If necessary."

I personally really do not like this change

PvE:
I use it occasionally in PvE while healing 4 person groups. I did today. I find it almost as good as most of my other skills except it becomes a little situational. As in, when lots of adds are around with a boss it works nicely. If there isn't a lot of trash. I don't use it and replace it with another skill. Most times/fights i do not use the skill. And very importantly, its fun.

PvP:
- I agree it is extremely effective and can completely see why the nerf of that nature was put in place.
- Away from keeps. If it is over performing. Then yeah, some sort of change required but not one that kills the skill some where between massively and completely in PvE. Although the nerf seemingly to me was made more to do with PvP keep fights mostly
- Defending a keep at a breach: It is extremely effective "when". paired with oils or siege. Or other large damage amounts made. It results in longer battles instead of door/wall down. Then next door down where keeps are easily won at that point like in the past before the skill was introduced. The longer battles at keeps has made fighting in those places a lot more fun and not over in a just a few minutes. If on the side that is not the winner of the keep after say half an hour battle. I still much more enjoy that then playing horse racing simulator. flip keep. Repeat. Or other things like breach is down and a bunch of people on siege ready get killed by the group running in so easily
- I also literally look to see if the campaign is pop locked and that determines whether i slot it, or mark target if on my magblade healer/DPS. Other skills for other classes but i still base it on pop lock to determine whether i slot it or not
-in PvE i mentioned its fun. In PvP it's really fun

Also increasing the cost does not prevent more than 1 player using it to keep it constantly up at breaches always. breaches being not simply "its down" and all in, so easily. Is a good thing i say

I have given little time in thinking of other ways to change the skill. Some suggestions for changing/balancing the skill i can think would be better was if the stun lasted a little shorter duration on enemy players. Or possibly even adding break free to it and sharing the global cc cooldown. Spamming break free (by habit) whenever cc'd for so long is frustrating. Making it break free might or might not allow a little easier access for tanks to get through breaches. Either result i like. And would not kill the skill for PvE

ty

TimeDazzler

I'm all for nerfing this ability but 8k seems a bit high. Maybe 6k and make the AoE smaller and the snare greatly reduced.