CP PvP: why?

CatchMeTrolling

MalagenR wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

My BJJ teacher professor who is a 8 time European Champion and 3 x Worlds Gold medalist told us the following when comparing training & competition with a Gi vs. No Gi.

"You never see No-Gi players put on a Gi and win a world championship, but you can find many cases of a Gi world champion taking off the GI and winning a world championship. You draw your own conclusions about which one is better when it comes to training BJJ."

I think very similar logic applies to CPPVP and noCPPVP - having begun my PVP adventure in Vivec - I realized very quickly that I didn't understand my class as well as I thought I did. I started at about 630 CP. I won a couple of fights solo, but everyone who was 810 and looked to be pretty good would smash me. Yet, I kept trying. As I gained CP, I also learned more about my class, which skills were worth it on my bar in an Open World, etc. Which skills were great for 1v1 but didn't mean anything where a fight could quickly become 1v3, etc.

Now, as I finished my Murkmire build and have been focusing on preparing for Pan Ams in March - I spend most of my time in BG's. Wow, the skill level drop is incredible.

Almost nobody on the PVP PS4 Leaderboards is incredible impressive - and these are the players that are doing BG's all day everyday, so you might assume some of them are good at PVP in general. I have yet to find this to be the case. I haven't encountered a single person who made me think, "I really need to avoid this person, drag them back to my group, or just straight up CC and run away".

Yet, in CP PVP campaigns, there are a number of players who I know I am incapable of beating in a 1v1 and I will try to lure them into zergs, or into a 2v1, etc. whatever I can do to even the odds. Sometimes I feel like I need practice, so I go at them head on and see what I can do, I view it as an improvement if I can last 30 seconds longer than I did last time, or bring the 1v1 to a 15 minute draw and then bail (because 15 min 1v1's are seriously boring).

Anyone claiming noCP PVP players are better than CP PVP players are kidding themselves. You have to be way faster in CP PVP. You have almost no time to decide on anything due to the power creep, and just need to have an in-depth understanding of when best to dodge roll, streak, CC, etc. etc. etc. list goes on. Because the power creep will make the fight either last forever (two good players) or be over in less than 3 seconds (better player vs worse player).

I was killing capped players or giving them a run for their money on my second account with 200-300 cp, just to throw that out there. It’s not that people are better it’s the fact more people have experience with cp, while others avoid no cp. BGs also has a mmr system, so you’re matched with low tier players to start most of the time.

As far as the first bolded part that is all more imperative in no cp because of the lack of resources, mitigation and healing. So, your reaction time has to be faster in no cp, your post pretty much contradicts the people saying you get one shotted in no cp.

Now the second bolded part goes for no cp as well, it isn’t exclusive to cp.

I’ve seen you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. I’ve never seen you do anything necessarily spectacular lol.

O

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

My BJJ teacher professor who is a 8 time European Champion and 3 x Worlds Gold medalist told us the following when comparing training & competition with a Gi vs. No Gi.

"You never see No-Gi players put on a Gi and win a world championship, but you can find many cases of a Gi world champion taking off the GI and winning a world championship. You draw your own conclusions about which one is better when it comes to training BJJ."

I think very similar logic applies to CPPVP and noCPPVP - having begun my PVP adventure in Vivec - I realized very quickly that I didn't understand my class as well as I thought I did. I started at about 630 CP. I won a couple of fights solo, but everyone who was 810 and looked to be pretty good would smash me. Yet, I kept trying. As I gained CP, I also learned more about my class, which skills were worth it on my bar in an Open World, etc. Which skills were great for 1v1 but didn't mean anything where a fight could quickly become 1v3, etc.

Now, as I finished my Murkmire build and have been focusing on preparing for Pan Ams in March - I spend most of my time in BG's. Wow, the skill level drop is incredible.

Almost nobody on the PVP PS4 Leaderboards is incredible impressive - and these are the players that are doing BG's all day everyday, so you might assume some of them are good at PVP in general. I have yet to find this to be the case. I haven't encountered a single person who made me think, "I really need to avoid this person, drag them back to my group, or just straight up CC and run away".

Yet, in CP PVP campaigns, there are a number of players who I know I am incapable of beating in a 1v1 and I will try to lure them into zergs, or into a 2v1, etc. whatever I can do to even the odds. Sometimes I feel like I need practice, so I go at them head on and see what I can do, I view it as an improvement if I can last 30 seconds longer than I did last time, or bring the 1v1 to a 15 minute draw and then bail (because 15 min 1v1's are seriously boring).

Anyone claiming noCP PVP players are better than CP PVP players are kidding themselves. You have to be way faster in CP PVP. You have almost no time to decide on anything due to the power creep, and just need to have an in-depth understanding of when best to dodge roll, streak, CC, etc. etc. etc. list goes on. Because the power creep will make the fight either last forever (two good players) or be over in less than 3 seconds (better player vs worse player).

I was killing capped players or giving them a run for their money on my second account with 200-300 cp, just to throw that out there. It’s not that people are better it’s the fact more people have experience with cp, while others avoid no cp. BGs also has a mmr system, so you’re matched with low tier players to start most of the time.

As far as the first bolded part that is all more imperative in no cp because of the lack of resources, mitigation and healing. So, your reaction time has to be faster in no cp, your post pretty much contradicts the people saying you get one shotted in no cp.

Now the second bolded part goes for no cp as well, it isn’t exclusive to cp.

Whatever man. Enjoy the rest of your trolling.

I mean you just contradicted what all the pro cp said about no cp with your statement. Sad part is you don’t even realize it.

I don't care what anecdotal evidence forum trolls can come up with to make a claim that just isn't true. CP PVP is by far more difficult and requires much more skill.

If you can’t see how what you said is contradicting what everyone else is saying and think your obliviousness equates to trolling..then you’re probably remedial.

There’s no skill in either, please play more games.

Metemsycosis

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

My BJJ teacher professor who is a 8 time European Champion and 3 x Worlds Gold medalist told us the following when comparing training & competition with a Gi vs. No Gi.

"You never see No-Gi players put on a Gi and win a world championship, but you can find many cases of a Gi world champion taking off the GI and winning a world championship. You draw your own conclusions about which one is better when it comes to training BJJ."

I think very similar logic applies to CPPVP and noCPPVP - having begun my PVP adventure in Vivec - I realized very quickly that I didn't understand my class as well as I thought I did. I started at about 630 CP. I won a couple of fights solo, but everyone who was 810 and looked to be pretty good would smash me. Yet, I kept trying. As I gained CP, I also learned more about my class, which skills were worth it on my bar in an Open World, etc. Which skills were great for 1v1 but didn't mean anything where a fight could quickly become 1v3, etc.

Now, as I finished my Murkmire build and have been focusing on preparing for Pan Ams in March - I spend most of my time in BG's. Wow, the skill level drop is incredible.

Almost nobody on the PVP PS4 Leaderboards is incredible impressive - and these are the players that are doing BG's all day everyday, so you might assume some of them are good at PVP in general. I have yet to find this to be the case. I haven't encountered a single person who made me think, "I really need to avoid this person, drag them back to my group, or just straight up CC and run away".

Yet, in CP PVP campaigns, there are a number of players who I know I am incapable of beating in a 1v1 and I will try to lure them into zergs, or into a 2v1, etc. whatever I can do to even the odds. Sometimes I feel like I need practice, so I go at them head on and see what I can do, I view it as an improvement if I can last 30 seconds longer than I did last time, or bring the 1v1 to a 15 minute draw and then bail (because 15 min 1v1's are seriously boring).

Anyone claiming noCP PVP players are better than CP PVP players are kidding themselves. You have to be way faster in CP PVP. You have almost no time to decide on anything due to the power creep, and just need to have an in-depth understanding of when best to dodge roll, streak, CC, etc. etc. etc. list goes on. Because the power creep will make the fight either last forever (two good players) or be over in less than 3 seconds (better player vs worse player).

I was killing capped players or giving them a run for their money on my second account with 200-300 cp, just to throw that out there. It’s not that people are better it’s the fact more people have experience with cp, while others avoid no cp. BGs also has a mmr system, so you’re matched with low tier players to start most of the time.

As far as the first bolded part that is all more imperative in no cp because of the lack of resources, mitigation and healing. So, your reaction time has to be faster in no cp, your post pretty much contradicts the people saying you get one shotted in no cp.

Now the second bolded part goes for no cp as well, it isn’t exclusive to cp.

I’ve seen you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. I’ve never seen you do anything necessarily spectacular lol.

O

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

My BJJ teacher professor who is a 8 time European Champion and 3 x Worlds Gold medalist told us the following when comparing training & competition with a Gi vs. No Gi.

"You never see No-Gi players put on a Gi and win a world championship, but you can find many cases of a Gi world champion taking off the GI and winning a world championship. You draw your own conclusions about which one is better when it comes to training BJJ."

I think very similar logic applies to CPPVP and noCPPVP - having begun my PVP adventure in Vivec - I realized very quickly that I didn't understand my class as well as I thought I did. I started at about 630 CP. I won a couple of fights solo, but everyone who was 810 and looked to be pretty good would smash me. Yet, I kept trying. As I gained CP, I also learned more about my class, which skills were worth it on my bar in an Open World, etc. Which skills were great for 1v1 but didn't mean anything where a fight could quickly become 1v3, etc.

Now, as I finished my Murkmire build and have been focusing on preparing for Pan Ams in March - I spend most of my time in BG's. Wow, the skill level drop is incredible.

Almost nobody on the PVP PS4 Leaderboards is incredible impressive - and these are the players that are doing BG's all day everyday, so you might assume some of them are good at PVP in general. I have yet to find this to be the case. I haven't encountered a single person who made me think, "I really need to avoid this person, drag them back to my group, or just straight up CC and run away".

Yet, in CP PVP campaigns, there are a number of players who I know I am incapable of beating in a 1v1 and I will try to lure them into zergs, or into a 2v1, etc. whatever I can do to even the odds. Sometimes I feel like I need practice, so I go at them head on and see what I can do, I view it as an improvement if I can last 30 seconds longer than I did last time, or bring the 1v1 to a 15 minute draw and then bail (because 15 min 1v1's are seriously boring).

Anyone claiming noCP PVP players are better than CP PVP players are kidding themselves. You have to be way faster in CP PVP. You have almost no time to decide on anything due to the power creep, and just need to have an in-depth understanding of when best to dodge roll, streak, CC, etc. etc. etc. list goes on. Because the power creep will make the fight either last forever (two good players) or be over in less than 3 seconds (better player vs worse player).

I was killing capped players or giving them a run for their money on my second account with 200-300 cp, just to throw that out there. It’s not that people are better it’s the fact more people have experience with cp, while others avoid no cp. BGs also has a mmr system, so you’re matched with low tier players to start most of the time.

As far as the first bolded part that is all more imperative in no cp because of the lack of resources, mitigation and healing. So, your reaction time has to be faster in no cp, your post pretty much contradicts the people saying you get one shotted in no cp.

Now the second bolded part goes for no cp as well, it isn’t exclusive to cp.

Whatever man. Enjoy the rest of your trolling.

I mean you just contradicted what all the pro cp said about no cp with your statement. Sad part is you don’t even realize it.

I don't care what anecdotal evidence forum trolls can come up with to make a claim that just isn't true. CP PVP is by far more difficult and requires much more skill.

If you can’t see how what you said is contradicting what everyone else is saying and think your obliviousness equates to trolling..then you’re probably remedial.

There’s no skill in either, please play more games.

No skill?
At all?


Really?

montiferus

Metemsycosis wrote: »

No skill?
At all?


Really?

lol i noticed this as well. definitely one of the more misinformed comments ive seen in a while.

BRODY

Lol, what? Discuss CP/noCP and skills players in Vivec/Bg...Ping, that all, what you need tell, whan you say about pvp in Cyro. I must see, how you win, have 810cp and 330-450 ping, players, who have 300-500 CP and 50-100 ping...You will lose so fast, i know it.

CatchMeTrolling

Metemsycosis wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

My BJJ teacher professor who is a 8 time European Champion and 3 x Worlds Gold medalist told us the following when comparing training & competition with a Gi vs. No Gi.

"You never see No-Gi players put on a Gi and win a world championship, but you can find many cases of a Gi world champion taking off the GI and winning a world championship. You draw your own conclusions about which one is better when it comes to training BJJ."

I think very similar logic applies to CPPVP and noCPPVP - having begun my PVP adventure in Vivec - I realized very quickly that I didn't understand my class as well as I thought I did. I started at about 630 CP. I won a couple of fights solo, but everyone who was 810 and looked to be pretty good would smash me. Yet, I kept trying. As I gained CP, I also learned more about my class, which skills were worth it on my bar in an Open World, etc. Which skills were great for 1v1 but didn't mean anything where a fight could quickly become 1v3, etc.

Now, as I finished my Murkmire build and have been focusing on preparing for Pan Ams in March - I spend most of my time in BG's. Wow, the skill level drop is incredible.

Almost nobody on the PVP PS4 Leaderboards is incredible impressive - and these are the players that are doing BG's all day everyday, so you might assume some of them are good at PVP in general. I have yet to find this to be the case. I haven't encountered a single person who made me think, "I really need to avoid this person, drag them back to my group, or just straight up CC and run away".

Yet, in CP PVP campaigns, there are a number of players who I know I am incapable of beating in a 1v1 and I will try to lure them into zergs, or into a 2v1, etc. whatever I can do to even the odds. Sometimes I feel like I need practice, so I go at them head on and see what I can do, I view it as an improvement if I can last 30 seconds longer than I did last time, or bring the 1v1 to a 15 minute draw and then bail (because 15 min 1v1's are seriously boring).

Anyone claiming noCP PVP players are better than CP PVP players are kidding themselves. You have to be way faster in CP PVP. You have almost no time to decide on anything due to the power creep, and just need to have an in-depth understanding of when best to dodge roll, streak, CC, etc. etc. etc. list goes on. Because the power creep will make the fight either last forever (two good players) or be over in less than 3 seconds (better player vs worse player).

I was killing capped players or giving them a run for their money on my second account with 200-300 cp, just to throw that out there. It’s not that people are better it’s the fact more people have experience with cp, while others avoid no cp. BGs also has a mmr system, so you’re matched with low tier players to start most of the time.

As far as the first bolded part that is all more imperative in no cp because of the lack of resources, mitigation and healing. So, your reaction time has to be faster in no cp, your post pretty much contradicts the people saying you get one shotted in no cp.

Now the second bolded part goes for no cp as well, it isn’t exclusive to cp.

I’ve seen you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. I’ve never seen you do anything necessarily spectacular lol.

O

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

My BJJ teacher professor who is a 8 time European Champion and 3 x Worlds Gold medalist told us the following when comparing training & competition with a Gi vs. No Gi.

"You never see No-Gi players put on a Gi and win a world championship, but you can find many cases of a Gi world champion taking off the GI and winning a world championship. You draw your own conclusions about which one is better when it comes to training BJJ."

I think very similar logic applies to CPPVP and noCPPVP - having begun my PVP adventure in Vivec - I realized very quickly that I didn't understand my class as well as I thought I did. I started at about 630 CP. I won a couple of fights solo, but everyone who was 810 and looked to be pretty good would smash me. Yet, I kept trying. As I gained CP, I also learned more about my class, which skills were worth it on my bar in an Open World, etc. Which skills were great for 1v1 but didn't mean anything where a fight could quickly become 1v3, etc.

Now, as I finished my Murkmire build and have been focusing on preparing for Pan Ams in March - I spend most of my time in BG's. Wow, the skill level drop is incredible.

Almost nobody on the PVP PS4 Leaderboards is incredible impressive - and these are the players that are doing BG's all day everyday, so you might assume some of them are good at PVP in general. I have yet to find this to be the case. I haven't encountered a single person who made me think, "I really need to avoid this person, drag them back to my group, or just straight up CC and run away".

Yet, in CP PVP campaigns, there are a number of players who I know I am incapable of beating in a 1v1 and I will try to lure them into zergs, or into a 2v1, etc. whatever I can do to even the odds. Sometimes I feel like I need practice, so I go at them head on and see what I can do, I view it as an improvement if I can last 30 seconds longer than I did last time, or bring the 1v1 to a 15 minute draw and then bail (because 15 min 1v1's are seriously boring).

Anyone claiming noCP PVP players are better than CP PVP players are kidding themselves. You have to be way faster in CP PVP. You have almost no time to decide on anything due to the power creep, and just need to have an in-depth understanding of when best to dodge roll, streak, CC, etc. etc. etc. list goes on. Because the power creep will make the fight either last forever (two good players) or be over in less than 3 seconds (better player vs worse player).

I was killing capped players or giving them a run for their money on my second account with 200-300 cp, just to throw that out there. It’s not that people are better it’s the fact more people have experience with cp, while others avoid no cp. BGs also has a mmr system, so you’re matched with low tier players to start most of the time.

As far as the first bolded part that is all more imperative in no cp because of the lack of resources, mitigation and healing. So, your reaction time has to be faster in no cp, your post pretty much contradicts the people saying you get one shotted in no cp.

Now the second bolded part goes for no cp as well, it isn’t exclusive to cp.

Whatever man. Enjoy the rest of your trolling.

I mean you just contradicted what all the pro cp said about no cp with your statement. Sad part is you don’t even realize it.

I don't care what anecdotal evidence forum trolls can come up with to make a claim that just isn't true. CP PVP is by far more difficult and requires much more skill.

If you can’t see how what you said is contradicting what everyone else is saying and think your obliviousness equates to trolling..then you’re probably remedial.

There’s no skill in either, please play more games.

No skill?
At all?


Really?

Yes, no skill. If you think eso takes skill or is competitive that tells me you haven’t played many games that fit the description. Don’t think because you can be better than someone at it that it takes skill, that’s a misconception that can be applied to many things. The game caters to casual pvp players like typical mmos, one of the reason there’s never a you know, competitive scene.

CompM4s

This whole pointless thread really shows you need to just find another game.

Defilted

mursie wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

Not one time have I advocated to remove a No-CP campaign or BG yet the No-CP and BG players constantly advocate for the removal of the CP campaign. I find that interesting.

i'll answer this question for you from my no-cp opinion (i'm CP 1077 as of today):
1. I play no-cp bg's all the time. i love them. procs and poisons are the least of my concern in this pvp format. they don't even crack the top 5 for things to worry about in no-cp pvp. if you think no-cp is proctard 1 shots, you are incorrect. I do think that bad players with little pvp experience will die faster in no-cp to all forms of opponent gear - including procs - compared to cp pvp. I caveat that point with the following exception: a low level cp player will die extremely fast in cp pvp to max level cp players - much much faster than any proc you might find in no-cp.

3. I play sotha sil no-cp pvp a good bit. i love it. When populated it is very entertaining.

5. I venture into vivec CP pvp on rare occasions (like this past saturday) when sotha is completely dead. I hate it. it is the laggiest POS i have ever seen. extremely important timing to pulling off dmg combo's (cloak, into channeled, into cloak, into elemental, into light attack concealed weapon weave for example) are virtually impossible in Vivec due to the lag. What is worse, if the above combo is pulled off, the target dysnc warps after the initial attack to a lagged teleport somewhere on the screen making it virtually impossible to follow up said initial attack. bottom line - the lag is horrendous and ruins the very timing and elegance of the animation-canceling pvp I have come to know and love. It has been widely stated that a major contributing factor for this lag - is the CP system and calculation itself. It honestly feels like you have to run in a ball group zerg in cp pvp where timing no longer matters because you're just a mass clump of aoe dmg and healing and timing goes out the window.

7. Unfortunately, due to the implementation of CP (which is inherently only a stat based increase on no-cp), many people play it for pvp over no-cp. a large majority of those people play it because they "earned those stats and by god they are entitled to use them". This divides the pvp player base and hurts the pvp population. period. I would love if this were not the case.

9. Cp points are a crutch. period. They lag pvp - period. if you need CP points to out-stat your opponent or because you are dieing to procs / 1shots in no-cp pvp then you're not a good player. Crutching on inflated stat pools to help give you a longer TTK because you can't properly build/defend/mitigate/avoid damage in no-cp is just that - crutching.

just being honest.

So my initial thought about this is correct. No-CP players want CP campaign ended so they have more pop in their BG's and No-CP campaigns.

The lag in Vivec at least on XBOX NA is becasue it is the most populated server. It has nothing to do with CP enabled. ZOS ran an experiment and disabled all CP and in that time the performance did not change. The more populated a server and then areas within that server, the more performance issues you see. On my platform No-CP runs great becasue no one is in there. Shor also runs well becasue it is less populated and it is a CP campaign.

Everything else you said is your opinion. I see plenty of skilled players in CP campaigns and non-cp campaigns.

MalagenR

I'd love to see your resume in real PVP games, let me know if you want me to shar emine.

Metemsycosis

Me I don't have one. I just find it odd to say there's NO skill involved.

Anecdotally I can come across 100 stamblades all humping meta gear and yet it will be that one five star flawless conquerer that kills me -- and not only once but enough times I know I am getting beat at the level of player skill rather than some op mechanic or rng factor. @CatchMeTrolling

CatchMeTrolling

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Me I don't have one. I just find it odd to say there's NO skill invovled.

Anecdotally I can come across 100 stamblades all humping meta gear and yet it will be that one five star flawless conquerer that kills me -- and not only once but enough times I know I am getting beat at the level of player skill rather than some op mechanic or rng factor. CatchMeTrolling

As I thought, you’re basically under the impression that because someone can be better it must take skill. Although there is tons of games that you can be better at than someone whether it’s multiplayer or single player. If we just throw out the word “skillful” so loosely then technically every game fits that category.

Sure eso has it’s impressive moments but it’s usually due to experience rather than skill.

MurderMostFoul

frostz417 wrote: »

Don’t think anyone can talk about noCP being balanced when it is littered with proc sets, poisons, and heavy armor.. mhm okay cry about cp because your sloads viper skoria build doesn’t work in cp like it does in noCP

Folks who dislike no CP PVP because they claim it makes proc sets overpowered clearly have not played it enough to have developed the skills that are required to survive when in when in the higher risk environment of no CP.

CP makes it much easier to survive, granted. I can see how this would appeal to people who have tried non CP and been blown up before getting accustomed to the faster pace. But once you are accustomed, the gameplay and no CP feels much more satisfying.

Metemsycosis

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Me I don't have one. I just find it odd to say there's NO skill invovled.

Anecdotally I can come across 100 stamblades all humping meta gear and yet it will be that one five star flawless conquerer that kills me -- and not only once but enough times I know I am getting beat at the level of player skill rather than some op mechanic or rng factor. CatchMeTrolling

As I thought, you’re basically under the impression that because someone can be better it must take skill. Although there is tons of games that you can be better at than someone whether it’s multiplayer or single player. If we just throw out the word “skillful” so loosely then technically every game fits that category.

Sure eso has it’s impressive moments but it’s usually due to experience rather than skill.

Experience can confer skill but is itself without use.

Curtdogg47

ON Xbox NA never seems to be anyone in the NO CP.

MalagenR

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Me I don't have one. I just find it odd to say there's NO skill invovled.

Anecdotally I can come across 100 stamblades all humping meta gear and yet it will be that one five star flawless conquerer that kills me -- and not only once but enough times I know I am getting beat at the level of player skill rather than some op mechanic or rng factor. CatchMeTrolling

As I thought, you’re basically under the impression that because someone can be better it must take skill. Although there is tons of games that you can be better at than someone whether it’s multiplayer or single player. If we just throw out the word “skillful” so loosely then technically every game fits that category.

Sure eso has it’s impressive moments but it’s usually due to experience rather than skill.

You've exposed yourself. Any experienced PVP'er from almost any other game can tell you that there is a nice learning curve to PVP in ESO.

Most people don't even know it exists, in a game that doesn't have GCD on skills so you can button smash many people don't ever bother to learn the nuance's of proper CC stacking, dot stacking, burst stacking, controlled CC, hard CC - there is so much to PVP in this game, just most of the community has no idea how to play it at a high level.

MalagenR

Like the fact that you actually need to aim your skills to ensure that you hit the correct player you're trying to kill from a ranged perspective especially is a huge deal compared to other MMO's.

Really ESO players are spoiled.

CatchMeTrolling

MalagenR wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Me I don't have one. I just find it odd to say there's NO skill invovled.

Anecdotally I can come across 100 stamblades all humping meta gear and yet it will be that one five star flawless conquerer that kills me -- and not only once but enough times I know I am getting beat at the level of player skill rather than some op mechanic or rng factor. CatchMeTrolling

As I thought, you’re basically under the impression that because someone can be better it must take skill. Although there is tons of games that you can be better at than someone whether it’s multiplayer or single player. If we just throw out the word “skillful” so loosely then technically every game fits that category.

Sure eso has it’s impressive moments but it’s usually due to experience rather than skill.

You've exposed yourself. Any experienced PVP'er from almost any other game can tell you that there is a nice learning curve to PVP in ESO.

Most people don't even know it exists, in a game that doesn't have GCD on skills so you can button smash many people don't ever bother to learn the nuance's of proper CC stacking, dot stacking, burst stacking, controlled CC, hard CC - there is so much to PVP in this game, just most of the community has no idea how to play it at a high level.

Most competitive and experienced pvp players wouldn’t even play eso. You have to learn in any pvp game , everyone starts as a noob. Honestly what are you even on about? All of that comes with experience. Which was my point, it’s usually comes down to experience. Why would an inexperienced player know about any of that? Especially in a game that promotes large scale pvp, putting players in a position where they don’t have to learn any of that to take a keep or win a campaign.

I’ve played mobas, fps, battle royale, fighting games, strategy games and obviously mmos but regardless I still don’t think cp or no cp takes skill.

montiferus

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I’ve played mobas, fps, battle royale, fighting games, strategy games and obviously mmos but regardless I still don’t think cp or no cp takes skill.

Sounds like you should start playing a different game.

CatchMeTrolling

montiferus wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I’ve played mobas, fps, battle royale, fighting games, strategy games and obviously mmos but regardless I still don’t think cp or no cp takes skill.

Sounds like you should start playing a different game.

Why, because I don’t think a game that I like is competitive or takes skill? We all can’t act like fanboys over every aspect of the game. Maybe I play the game for fun or because it’s part of a series that I liked for years?

JumpmanLane

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

My BJJ teacher professor who is a 8 time European Champion and 3 x Worlds Gold medalist told us the following when comparing training & competition with a Gi vs. No Gi.

"You never see No-Gi players put on a Gi and win a world championship, but you can find many cases of a Gi world champion taking off the GI and winning a world championship. You draw your own conclusions about which one is better when it comes to training BJJ."

I think very similar logic applies to CPPVP and noCPPVP - having begun my PVP adventure in Vivec - I realized very quickly that I didn't understand my class as well as I thought I did. I started at about 630 CP. I won a couple of fights solo, but everyone who was 810 and looked to be pretty good would smash me. Yet, I kept trying. As I gained CP, I also learned more about my class, which skills were worth it on my bar in an Open World, etc. Which skills were great for 1v1 but didn't mean anything where a fight could quickly become 1v3, etc.

Now, as I finished my Murkmire build and have been focusing on preparing for Pan Ams in March - I spend most of my time in BG's. Wow, the skill level drop is incredible.

Almost nobody on the PVP PS4 Leaderboards is incredible impressive - and these are the players that are doing BG's all day everyday, so you might assume some of them are good at PVP in general. I have yet to find this to be the case. I haven't encountered a single person who made me think, "I really need to avoid this person, drag them back to my group, or just straight up CC and run away".

Yet, in CP PVP campaigns, there are a number of players who I know I am incapable of beating in a 1v1 and I will try to lure them into zergs, or into a 2v1, etc. whatever I can do to even the odds. Sometimes I feel like I need practice, so I go at them head on and see what I can do, I view it as an improvement if I can last 30 seconds longer than I did last time, or bring the 1v1 to a 15 minute draw and then bail (because 15 min 1v1's are seriously boring).

Anyone claiming noCP PVP players are better than CP PVP players are kidding themselves. You have to be way faster in CP PVP. You have almost no time to decide on anything due to the power creep, and just need to have an in-depth understanding of when best to dodge roll, streak, CC, etc. etc. etc. list goes on. Because the power creep will make the fight either last forever (two good players) or be over in less than 3 seconds (better player vs worse player).

I was killing capped players or giving them a run for their money on my second account with 200-300 cp, just to throw that out there. It’s not that people are better it’s the fact more people have experience with cp, while others avoid no cp. BGs also has a mmr system, so you’re matched with low tier players to start most of the time.

As far as the first bolded part that is all more imperative in no cp because of the lack of resources, mitigation and healing. So, your reaction time has to be faster in no cp, your post pretty much contradicts the people saying you get one shotted in no cp.

Now the second bolded part goes for no cp as well, it isn’t exclusive to cp.

I’ve seen you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. I’ve never seen you do anything necessarily spectacular lol.

You don’t even know who I am.

I repeat: I’ve SEEN you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. ‘BOUT IT Lol.

CatchMeTrolling

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

My BJJ teacher professor who is a 8 time European Champion and 3 x Worlds Gold medalist told us the following when comparing training & competition with a Gi vs. No Gi.

"You never see No-Gi players put on a Gi and win a world championship, but you can find many cases of a Gi world champion taking off the GI and winning a world championship. You draw your own conclusions about which one is better when it comes to training BJJ."

I think very similar logic applies to CPPVP and noCPPVP - having begun my PVP adventure in Vivec - I realized very quickly that I didn't understand my class as well as I thought I did. I started at about 630 CP. I won a couple of fights solo, but everyone who was 810 and looked to be pretty good would smash me. Yet, I kept trying. As I gained CP, I also learned more about my class, which skills were worth it on my bar in an Open World, etc. Which skills were great for 1v1 but didn't mean anything where a fight could quickly become 1v3, etc.

Now, as I finished my Murkmire build and have been focusing on preparing for Pan Ams in March - I spend most of my time in BG's. Wow, the skill level drop is incredible.

Almost nobody on the PVP PS4 Leaderboards is incredible impressive - and these are the players that are doing BG's all day everyday, so you might assume some of them are good at PVP in general. I have yet to find this to be the case. I haven't encountered a single person who made me think, "I really need to avoid this person, drag them back to my group, or just straight up CC and run away".

Yet, in CP PVP campaigns, there are a number of players who I know I am incapable of beating in a 1v1 and I will try to lure them into zergs, or into a 2v1, etc. whatever I can do to even the odds. Sometimes I feel like I need practice, so I go at them head on and see what I can do, I view it as an improvement if I can last 30 seconds longer than I did last time, or bring the 1v1 to a 15 minute draw and then bail (because 15 min 1v1's are seriously boring).

Anyone claiming noCP PVP players are better than CP PVP players are kidding themselves. You have to be way faster in CP PVP. You have almost no time to decide on anything due to the power creep, and just need to have an in-depth understanding of when best to dodge roll, streak, CC, etc. etc. etc. list goes on. Because the power creep will make the fight either last forever (two good players) or be over in less than 3 seconds (better player vs worse player).

I was killing capped players or giving them a run for their money on my second account with 200-300 cp, just to throw that out there. It’s not that people are better it’s the fact more people have experience with cp, while others avoid no cp. BGs also has a mmr system, so you’re matched with low tier players to start most of the time.

As far as the first bolded part that is all more imperative in no cp because of the lack of resources, mitigation and healing. So, your reaction time has to be faster in no cp, your post pretty much contradicts the people saying you get one shotted in no cp.

Now the second bolded part goes for no cp as well, it isn’t exclusive to cp.

I’ve seen you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. I’ve never seen you do anything necessarily spectacular lol.

You don’t even know who I am.

I repeat: I’ve SEEN you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. ‘BOUT IT Lol.

Okay, even if that’s true what are you even saying? Everyone looks at their map. What alliance do I play, what classes, am I stam or magic? Most important question is who are you? If you can’t answer that at least don’t bother responding.

StayAlfresco

I'm going to have to largely agree with @CatchMeTrolling here. Where is the skill factor exactly? Correct decision making is the only thing I can think of that you could maybe pen down as skillful, but that's largely a beneficiary of experience, and anyone with the same experience could also make that decision.

JumpmanLane

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

My BJJ teacher professor who is a 8 time European Champion and 3 x Worlds Gold medalist told us the following when comparing training & competition with a Gi vs. No Gi.

"You never see No-Gi players put on a Gi and win a world championship, but you can find many cases of a Gi world champion taking off the GI and winning a world championship. You draw your own conclusions about which one is better when it comes to training BJJ."

I think very similar logic applies to CPPVP and noCPPVP - having begun my PVP adventure in Vivec - I realized very quickly that I didn't understand my class as well as I thought I did. I started at about 630 CP. I won a couple of fights solo, but everyone who was 810 and looked to be pretty good would smash me. Yet, I kept trying. As I gained CP, I also learned more about my class, which skills were worth it on my bar in an Open World, etc. Which skills were great for 1v1 but didn't mean anything where a fight could quickly become 1v3, etc.

Now, as I finished my Murkmire build and have been focusing on preparing for Pan Ams in March - I spend most of my time in BG's. Wow, the skill level drop is incredible.

Almost nobody on the PVP PS4 Leaderboards is incredible impressive - and these are the players that are doing BG's all day everyday, so you might assume some of them are good at PVP in general. I have yet to find this to be the case. I haven't encountered a single person who made me think, "I really need to avoid this person, drag them back to my group, or just straight up CC and run away".

Yet, in CP PVP campaigns, there are a number of players who I know I am incapable of beating in a 1v1 and I will try to lure them into zergs, or into a 2v1, etc. whatever I can do to even the odds. Sometimes I feel like I need practice, so I go at them head on and see what I can do, I view it as an improvement if I can last 30 seconds longer than I did last time, or bring the 1v1 to a 15 minute draw and then bail (because 15 min 1v1's are seriously boring).

Anyone claiming noCP PVP players are better than CP PVP players are kidding themselves. You have to be way faster in CP PVP. You have almost no time to decide on anything due to the power creep, and just need to have an in-depth understanding of when best to dodge roll, streak, CC, etc. etc. etc. list goes on. Because the power creep will make the fight either last forever (two good players) or be over in less than 3 seconds (better player vs worse player).

I was killing capped players or giving them a run for their money on my second account with 200-300 cp, just to throw that out there. It’s not that people are better it’s the fact more people have experience with cp, while others avoid no cp. BGs also has a mmr system, so you’re matched with low tier players to start most of the time.

As far as the first bolded part that is all more imperative in no cp because of the lack of resources, mitigation and healing. So, your reaction time has to be faster in no cp, your post pretty much contradicts the people saying you get one shotted in no cp.

Now the second bolded part goes for no cp as well, it isn’t exclusive to cp.

I’ve seen you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. I’ve never seen you do anything necessarily spectacular lol.

You don’t even know who I am.

I repeat: I’ve SEEN you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. ‘BOUT IT Lol.

Okay, even if that’s true what are you even saying? Everyone looks at their map. What alliance do I play, what classes, am I stam or magic? Most important question is who are you? If you can’t answer that at least don’t bother responding.

I’m the one who INSTEAD OF seeing you do anything spectacular, see you all the time in Cyro...um...LOOKING AT YOUR MAP! Hehehehe

JumpmanLane

StayAlfresco wrote: »

I'm going to have to largely agree with @CatchMeTrolling here. Where is the skill factor exactly? Correct decision making is the only thing I can think of that you could maybe pen down as skillful, but that's largely a beneficiary of experience, and anyone with the same experience could also make that decision.

Well some builds require more skill than others. For example sustain sets give you sustain. Instead of wearing a sustain set, someone running all damage sets still needs to recover resources. Someone running all damage and only gets sustain from skills and pots would need to become more skilled at resource management than someone with super high recovery they got from a set. I would say. That’s just one example.

I could even see the argument where someone says fighting with no cp at all requires more skill but only if they were fighting people with cp allotted. Incidentally, I know people who can and do at least duel that way.

In the end one must develop their own standards of measuring their own skill I suppose. Yet to say using cp is a crutch or that PvP in ESO doesn’t require skill at all is just wrong. Consider a level 10 noob who knows nothing of the game compared to a seasoned 1vXer. There is a very real difference between the skill levels of the two if one only considers EXPERIENCE as a metric, not to mention KNOWLEDGE.

When someone considers something silly like any begged for nerf or the elimination of all cp in PvP, one shouldn’t ask WHY someone wants such changes. One should ask what would be the result of such changes.

The elimination of cp would destroy any advantage someone who bothered to ACTUALLY READ the bonuses acquired from allotting cp correctly and creating a unique build around cp vs the guy who never bothered to read the cp bonuses at all and at best copy pasted his build from online. In essence, the guy who through time and effort ACHIEVED something is brought down to the level of mediocrity. That ain’t RIGHT!

CatchMeTrolling

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

My BJJ teacher professor who is a 8 time European Champion and 3 x Worlds Gold medalist told us the following when comparing training & competition with a Gi vs. No Gi.

"You never see No-Gi players put on a Gi and win a world championship, but you can find many cases of a Gi world champion taking off the GI and winning a world championship. You draw your own conclusions about which one is better when it comes to training BJJ."

I think very similar logic applies to CPPVP and noCPPVP - having begun my PVP adventure in Vivec - I realized very quickly that I didn't understand my class as well as I thought I did. I started at about 630 CP. I won a couple of fights solo, but everyone who was 810 and looked to be pretty good would smash me. Yet, I kept trying. As I gained CP, I also learned more about my class, which skills were worth it on my bar in an Open World, etc. Which skills were great for 1v1 but didn't mean anything where a fight could quickly become 1v3, etc.

Now, as I finished my Murkmire build and have been focusing on preparing for Pan Ams in March - I spend most of my time in BG's. Wow, the skill level drop is incredible.

Almost nobody on the PVP PS4 Leaderboards is incredible impressive - and these are the players that are doing BG's all day everyday, so you might assume some of them are good at PVP in general. I have yet to find this to be the case. I haven't encountered a single person who made me think, "I really need to avoid this person, drag them back to my group, or just straight up CC and run away".

Yet, in CP PVP campaigns, there are a number of players who I know I am incapable of beating in a 1v1 and I will try to lure them into zergs, or into a 2v1, etc. whatever I can do to even the odds. Sometimes I feel like I need practice, so I go at them head on and see what I can do, I view it as an improvement if I can last 30 seconds longer than I did last time, or bring the 1v1 to a 15 minute draw and then bail (because 15 min 1v1's are seriously boring).

Anyone claiming noCP PVP players are better than CP PVP players are kidding themselves. You have to be way faster in CP PVP. You have almost no time to decide on anything due to the power creep, and just need to have an in-depth understanding of when best to dodge roll, streak, CC, etc. etc. etc. list goes on. Because the power creep will make the fight either last forever (two good players) or be over in less than 3 seconds (better player vs worse player).

I was killing capped players or giving them a run for their money on my second account with 200-300 cp, just to throw that out there. It’s not that people are better it’s the fact more people have experience with cp, while others avoid no cp. BGs also has a mmr system, so you’re matched with low tier players to start most of the time.

As far as the first bolded part that is all more imperative in no cp because of the lack of resources, mitigation and healing. So, your reaction time has to be faster in no cp, your post pretty much contradicts the people saying you get one shotted in no cp.

Now the second bolded part goes for no cp as well, it isn’t exclusive to cp.

I’ve seen you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. I’ve never seen you do anything necessarily spectacular lol.

You don’t even know who I am.

I repeat: I’ve SEEN you in Cyrodill standing around looking at your map. ‘BOUT IT Lol.

Okay, even if that’s true what are you even saying? Everyone looks at their map. What alliance do I play, what classes, am I stam or magic? Most important question is who are you? If you can’t answer that at least don’t bother responding.

I’m the one who INSTEAD OF seeing you do anything spectacular, see you all the time in Cyro...um...LOOKING AT YOUR MAP! Hehehehe

Yeah you’re lying because you would’ve answered and it’s no way you see me all the time because for one I don’t play the game enough for that and two I’m not in open world like that. Plus I’m rarely by my own alliance. But nice try.

MalagenR

JumpmanLane wrote: »

StayAlfresco wrote: »

I'm going to have to largely agree with @CatchMeTrolling here. Where is the skill factor exactly? Correct decision making is the only thing I can think of that you could maybe pen down as skillful, but that's largely a beneficiary of experience, and anyone with the same experience could also make that decision.

Well some builds require more skill than others. For example sustain sets give you sustain. Instead of wearing a sustain set, someone running all damage sets still needs to recover resources. Someone running all damage and only gets sustain from skills and pots would need to become more skilled at resource management than someone with super high recovery they got from a set. I would say. That’s just one example.

I could even see the argument where someone says fighting with no cp at all requires more skill but only if they were fighting people with cp allotted. Incidentally, I know people who can and do at least duel that way.

In the end one must develop their own standards of measuring their own skill I suppose. Yet to say using cp is a crutch or that PvP in ESO doesn’t require skill at all is just wrong. Consider a level 10 noob who knows nothing of the game compared to a seasoned 1vXer. There is a very real difference between the skill levels of the two if one only considers EXPERIENCE as a metric, not to mention KNOWLEDGE.

When someone considers something silly like any begged for nerf or the elimination of all cp in PvP, one shouldn’t ask WHY someone wants such changes. One should ask what would be the result of such changes.

The elimination of cp would destroy any advantage someone who bothered to ACTUALLY READ the bonuses acquired from allotting cp correctly and creating a unique build around cp vs the guy who never bothered to read the cp bonuses at all and at best copy pasted his build from online. In essence, the guy who through time and effort ACHIEVED something is brought down to the level of mediocrity. That ain’t RIGHT!

Let's just discuss how a skill level is determined in sports and compare it to games - since they are the same thing except one is performed mentally and physically in the real world and one his performed mentally and physically between both worlds.

in BJJ: The most "skilled" grapplers have the following:

1. Great understanding of techniques / execution of techniques - in ESO, this would be an understanding of classes and their skills

2. Great understanding of timing of techniques - in ESO, it would be a great understanding of anything that is timing related, so hard CC timing, when to execute certain skills, when to roll dodge, when to break free vs. face tank, etc.

3. Great understanding of what is necessary to make sure your "tools" or physical body is prepared for winning and performing both of the above actions - In ESO, this would be a great understanding of character builds, armor sets to wear, CP to allocate, stats to mix/stack, passives to exploit, etc.

So yeah, I don't see how you can say that ESO PVP doesn't take skill. It mostly just sounds like you don't understand the definition of the word, I've provided it for you below:


Skill
noun
the ability to do something well; expertise.
"difficult work, taking great skill"
synonyms: expertise, skillfulness, expertness, adeptness, adroitness, deftness, dexterity, ability, prowess, mastery, competence, competency, capability, efficiency, aptitude, artistry, art, finesse, flair, virtuosity, experience, professionalism, talent, cleverness, smartness, ingenuity, versatility, knack, readiness, handiness; informalknow-how
"once again, he demonstrated his skill as a politician"

CatchMeTrolling

MalagenR wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

StayAlfresco wrote: »

I'm going to have to largely agree with @CatchMeTrolling here. Where is the skill factor exactly? Correct decision making is the only thing I can think of that you could maybe pen down as skillful, but that's largely a beneficiary of experience, and anyone with the same experience could also make that decision.

Well some builds require more skill than others. For example sustain sets give you sustain. Instead of wearing a sustain set, someone running all damage sets still needs to recover resources. Someone running all damage and only gets sustain from skills and pots would need to become more skilled at resource management than someone with super high recovery they got from a set. I would say. That’s just one example.

I could even see the argument where someone says fighting with no cp at all requires more skill but only if they were fighting people with cp allotted. Incidentally, I know people who can and do at least duel that way.

In the end one must develop their own standards of measuring their own skill I suppose. Yet to say using cp is a crutch or that PvP in ESO doesn’t require skill at all is just wrong. Consider a level 10 noob who knows nothing of the game compared to a seasoned 1vXer. There is a very real difference between the skill levels of the two if one only considers EXPERIENCE as a metric, not to mention KNOWLEDGE.

When someone considers something silly like any begged for nerf or the elimination of all cp in PvP, one shouldn’t ask WHY someone wants such changes. One should ask what would be the result of such changes.

The elimination of cp would destroy any advantage someone who bothered to ACTUALLY READ the bonuses acquired from allotting cp correctly and creating a unique build around cp vs the guy who never bothered to read the cp bonuses at all and at best copy pasted his build from online. In essence, the guy who through time and effort ACHIEVED something is brought down to the level of mediocrity. That ain’t RIGHT!

Let's just discuss how a skill level is determined in sports and compare it to games - since they are the same thing except one is performed mentally and physically in the real world and one his performed mentally and physically between both worlds.

in BJJ: The most "skilled" grapplers have the following:

1. Great understanding of techniques / execution of techniques - in ESO, this would be an understanding of classes and their skills

2. Great understanding of timing of techniques - in ESO, it would be a great understanding of anything that is timing related, so hard CC timing, when to execute certain skills, when to roll dodge, when to break free vs. face tank, etc.

3. Great understanding of what is necessary to make sure your "tools" or physical body is prepared for winning and performing both of the above actions - In ESO, this would be a great understanding of character builds, armor sets to wear, CP to allocate, stats to mix/stack, passives to exploit, etc.

So yeah, I don't see how you can say that ESO PVP doesn't take skill. It mostly just sounds like you don't understand the definition of the word, I've provided it for you below:


Skill
noun
the ability to do something well; expertise.
"difficult work, taking great skill"
synonyms: expertise, skillfulness, expertness, adeptness, adroitness, deftness, dexterity, ability, prowess, mastery, competence, competency, capability, efficiency, aptitude, artistry, art, finesse, flair, virtuosity, experience, professionalism, talent, cleverness, smartness, ingenuity, versatility, knack, readiness, handiness; informalknow-how
"once again, he demonstrated his skill as a politician"

So you pretty much think every game takes skill to play to sum it up. Fine, that’s cool but I’m still going to say it doesn’t.

Ps. There’s multiple denotations and connotations for words. If we’re being technical then cp is indeed a crutch and can’t be debated I guess ? So thanks for that.

Datolite

Y'all need to chill. ESO isn't competitive for a number of reasons, but it is still one of the most fast paced mmoRPGs available in the west. Compare the combat to WoW and yeah, it takes some skill.

That being said, can we not let this devolve into personal attacks?

MalagenR

WoW takes an incredible amount of skill to play at the highest levels - I mean, holy crap, just the amount of visual sensory information you need to be able to absorb combined with the technical expertise all then translated into decision making.... at least to take down a Gladiator Title.

This is why I asked for a resume -

<-- Lineage2 - COV Archer Party Lead for <MAFIA> Alliance, <MAFIA> completely dominated Hindemith for years (also happened to be where I met my 1st Chinese and Korean gamers, who seriously outpace their American counterparts in basically everything gaming related)
<-- Season 3 Laughing Skull (highest pop WOW PvP server at that time) Gladiator.
<-- EVE Online FC (counter Black Ops Goonsquad - killboards attached - check my efficiency vs. my kills) -https://zkillboard.com/character/516206867/ - https://zkillboard.com/character/2000873527/
<-- Aion - Siel Server Asmo Faction Lead (Consistently dominated the server from 2.0 to 4.0 while outnumbered 2:1 vs. Elyos faction)
<-- ESO Online - filthy casual and retired ex-try hard

And those are just major games I've played over the last 15 years.

Take your no skill comments someplace else, it's obvious you're a troll.

CatchMeTrolling

Datolite wrote: »

Y'all need to chill. ESO isn't competitive for a number of reasons, but it is still one of the most fast paced mmoRPGs available in the west. Compare the combat to WoW and yeah, it takes some skill.

That being said, can we not let this devolve into personal attacks?

ESO takes experience and the ability to be EFFECTIVE rather than SKILLFUL. Such as effectively applying a cc to burst someone rather than spamming it just because. (That goes for ccs, roots, bleeds, snares, dots etc.) Another thing that diminishes the game is the fact there’s essentially no Cooldown. While in other games if you waste your cc you’d have to wait 10-15 secs just to use it again. Plus the fact you have to aim it.

“Something that is effective works well and produces the results that were intended”

It’s meant to be a casual game and update after update reinforces that. I don’t log in expecting skillful or competitive play, get on to kill people as if I was playing GTA online.

Anyways at the end of the day I don’t know why people are so pressed about me saying it doesn’t take skill. I don’t use the word loosely. But if that’s how they see it so be it.

I’m not even serious, if I was I’d just stop responding.

CatchMeTrolling

On topic: For those who actually watched the no cp bgs live stream, you seen that the match went the full length without any team reaching the max score. There was no one shotting or getting procced to death. What was blatantly obvious was the inability to move because of roots , ccs and snares. Which is what I said was the real problem in no cp. When facing opponents that have some sense of what they’re doing the matches turn into a slugfest. If cp was enabled the top score would’ve probably been 100 instead of 300 something.