CP PvP: why?

CatchMeTrolling

Is no cp being dominated by proc sets a specific server thing or open world? In bgs they’ve been pretty tame. If I see one it’s usually skoria, other than that there’s a slim chance to see viper, sloads and Winterborn. But they aren’t the norm , so I’m confused.

You can 1vx in cp or no cp. I don’t get how it being harder in no cp invalidates it, if anything that makes it more impressive.

Saying sets carry in no cp is bias because sets carry in cp too. Instead it’s worse because they drag fights out against people that you’re blatantly outplaying. Everyone “hates” the tank meta but also hate fast fights that resemble the “golden age” of pvp, that which is 1.6.

Go to cp for forgiving pvp, go to no cp where it’s less forgiving and where making a mistake or being caught off guard means you’re dead. Honestly dying quick in no cp is usually a l2p issue and a sign of inexperience. Play any high mmr bg and you’re going to wish players died as quickly as everyone claims. Fights against good players will make you think its cp pvp.

Build diversity is a myth in cp, everyone runs the same sets. In no cp I’ve come across the most unorthodox builds because cp actually kills creativity.

Drop bodies in cp and no cp, lets stop acting like one takes more skill or the game is skillful in general.

grannas211

Datolite wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

I revisited Vivec after a long hiatus. Wanted to test out a build that required champion points. Many regrets were had.

Its like a longer, more boring version of the pvp I have grown to love. Everyone is tanky. Fights last forever. Ball groups are ridiculous.

Seriously, what is the appeal? I can't fathom how this server is so populated.

What is the appeal in gankfest, instant death, bleed and dot non CP PvP?

Higher risk. Less lazy builds. Faster pace. No turtle tanks. Tons of diversity. Much better balance. No 6 man invincible ball groups. Siege is actually dangerous.

Are you saying there is no ganking in CP?

That's going to be a no from me dawg

Datolite

frostz417 wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Don’t think anyone can talk about noCP being balanced when it is littered with proc sets, poisons, and heavy armor.. mhm okay cry about cp because your sloads viper skoria build doesn’t work in cp like it does in noCP

It's funny, cause the most effective build I have is just bright throat, shackle and bloodspawn in light armor. You just sound like you got your wet paper build torn in half by a baby proc cause you forgot to put impen on your actual gear.

And you sound like you hit like a wet paper and cry because you can’t kill anyone in cp with your current set up. Then got bursted down.

If by bursted down you mean got bored and wandered off while the magsorc i was fighting mounted back up then yes. That is what happened.

I seriously don't understand the appeal of that. Give me high risk any day. And as Catchme said, watch two skilled players or groups in noCP and you will think it's CP enabled. They just do it with less padding.

Iskiab

I always assumed CP campaigns were for people new to pvp. I always hear weird comments from people who play in the CP campaign I assumed it was full of noobs to MMO PvP.

Things like:

1vX builds - why would you ever want to make a spec that can do everything, the only reason I can think of is to make a video or you always roll solo
Talking about zerglings - this has actually been around for a bit, basicly it’s people that think pvp is all dueling or small groups and get mad when they get rofl stomped by a larger group

ESO wasn’t designed with pvp in mind, it was added later. I always imagined CP cyrodiil was long time max CP players who can’t adapt to having more players pvp. They’ve never played a MMO pvp game before and cry about pvp having group dynamics and not being all solo play. Maybe I’m wrong, but that was what I assumed.

I’ve been playing MMO pvp games for a long time and it just feels like the longtime max CP players say too many dumb things to have pvp’d a lot. One person in our campaign the other day was fighting someone solo and got mad when someone came and helped... I mean that’s just absurd. The long time players sound like they want pvp to stay a ghost town and can’t adapt to an improving game, especially an improving population.

Iskiab

Just want to clarify, I think 1vX builds and videos are great. I’ve learned a lot from them. If that’s your thing good on you.

I just mean coming from other pvp games they didn’t exist, and no one in their right mind would have built a soloing build for a group pvp setting.

Rake

Datolite wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

I revisited Vivec after a long hiatus. Wanted to test out a build that required champion points. Many regrets were had.

Its like a longer, more boring version of the pvp I have grown to love. Everyone is tanky. Fights last forever. Ball groups are ridiculous.

Seriously, what is the appeal? I can't fathom how this server is so populated.

What is the appeal in gankfest, instant death, bleed and dot non CP PvP?

Higher risk. Less lazy builds. Faster pace. No turtle tanks. Tons of diversity. Much better balance. No 6 man invincible ball groups. Siege is actually dangerous.

Are you saying there is no ganking in CP?

higher risk for us non gankers, yes.
faster pace for gankers, yes
turtle tanks? Spoken like real ganker. probably weak, but ganker.
Diversity? 2 bleed builds, one ganker build and 2 sorc builds. So much about diversity in no CP

CatchMeTrolling

Rake wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

I revisited Vivec after a long hiatus. Wanted to test out a build that required champion points. Many regrets were had.

Its like a longer, more boring version of the pvp I have grown to love. Everyone is tanky. Fights last forever. Ball groups are ridiculous.

Seriously, what is the appeal? I can't fathom how this server is so populated.

What is the appeal in gankfest, instant death, bleed and dot non CP PvP?

Higher risk. Less lazy builds. Faster pace. No turtle tanks. Tons of diversity. Much better balance. No 6 man invincible ball groups. Siege is actually dangerous.

Are you saying there is no ganking in CP?

higher risk for us non gankers, yes.
faster pace for gankers, yes
turtle tanks? Spoken like real ganker. probably weak, but ganker.
Diversity? 2 bleed builds, one ganker build and 2 sorc builds. So much about diversity in no CP

Rake, just say you loathe gankers.

NBrookus

Personally, I don't noticed much relative power difference in CP versus no-CP. No CP heavily favors bleed and root builds because of the reduced stat pools, though, and that's not particularly fun to me.

Demra wrote: »

Curious, Where does a casual player cp 400-500 with purple items stand a better chance?

@Demra Gold your weapons. Don't worry about the rest being purple. But at your level, I'd play in no CP. The difference isn't huge from 500 to 810 CP, but if you are just learning that little bit is going to seem like a lot.

idk

Turelus wrote: »

I personally just hate it because I am a PvX player and I CBA to switch my CP every day I do something different.

No-CP is the best.

This is really the answer. If you consider that CP slots are so role and activity related we have to change our CP when we PvP and again when we go back to PvE, if we want to have a build designed to do well.

This is part of what I have said numerous times that Zos does not think through these changes. This was would not have been an issue with the original design for CP when it was released as Zos stated they expected the average player would reach 3600 points in less than 2 years. So Zos expected most of us to be playing with all 3600 points allocated long before now even though many of us called that god mode on the PTS.

Clearly Zos ended up seeing some of the issues and placed a lower cap, but that is why we need to change our CP so often. Hopefully Zos make a more thoughtful review of CP this year since they have said they are looking at it.

Datthaw

No cp could be alot of fun if the sets were like in kyne. But vet no cp is just proc sets and snipe spammers. If there was less bull crap in the sets no cp would be the only place I play.

p00tx

Because I don't want to win/lose a fight based on nothing but the rng from a bunch of garbage proc sets. I enjoy the longer fights where both people have to carefully manage their resources and try to outburst and outmaneuver the other. No CP can be fun (like BGs), but only in small doses.

Beardimus

cpuScientist wrote: »

IndorilArwynLlethran wrote: »

-More build flexibility/options,
-more harder opponents/challenge
-more 1v1 and 1vx fun situations
-more farming space with noobs who think if they have cp it's enough
-moar drama in zone XD

Add to that less proc damage set carry!

However
I played only sotha for the midyear mayhem event and by golly was it fun as a button on a new shirt. I couldn't believe it 3 way BRAWL at a keep and zero lag. A little frame drop but I did not lag. And there were people galore. Loved it. But oh well. Now it's empty again and hard to find fights. Also I'm blue on NA so it's just a huge lead cause Blue kinda zergs there alot. Whereas vivec we always out now which I prefer. And I shall never not be BLUE

Arguably proc set are more OP in noCP as its free damage

Datolite

Well, I'm not going to say anyone's reasons are invalid. It is sad to see so many people afraid of proc sets though, as if they're still a big threat...

CatchMeTrolling

p00tx wrote: »

Because I don't want to win/lose a fight based on nothing but the rng from a bunch of garbage proc sets. I enjoy the longer fights where both people have to carefully manage their resources and try to outburst and outmaneuver the other. No CP can be fun (like BGs), but only in small doses.

I don’t get this part because cp resource management is ridiculously easy, the only challenge comes when you’re outnumbered.

Slack

frostz417 wrote: »

Don’t think anyone can talk about noCP being balanced when it is littered with proc sets, poisons, and heavy armor.. mhm okay cry about cp because your sloads viper skoria build doesn’t work in cp like it does in noCP

And what is this secret that makes heavy armor so OP?
Is it the reduced sustain? The bad damage? The 2k health increase? Or maybe that few extra % in resistance?

p00tx

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Because I don't want to win/lose a fight based on nothing but the rng from a bunch of garbage proc sets. I enjoy the longer fights where both people have to carefully manage their resources and try to outburst and outmaneuver the other. No CP can be fun (like BGs), but only in small doses.

I don’t get this part because cp resource management is ridiculously easy, the only challenge comes when you’re outnumbered.

Which is probably why Vivec is populated by 1vXers. At least on Xbox in DC and AD anyway. EP on there only travels in packs of 1858763478634987645 with a 90% Earthgore:player ratio.

Mr_Walker

Baconlad wrote: »

You like no cp because you dont run across players who try to build balanced, you run across players like you...zerglings who die to the drop if a hat.

How dare you sir, I die at the drop of a hat even when I build balanced!

Nellzer

Because non-CP has a significantly lower skill cap. 1vX in CP actually requires in depth game knowledge, map knowledge, understanding how to use your surroundings, when to engage/disengage, etc etc. Non-CP has elements of this, sure, but not nearly to the same extent, and you can easily be overrun with zero outs.

CP also allows for much higher build diversity, and allows unorthodox builds, in the hands of the right player, to shine and pull off good fights.

A lot of your complaints are unwarranted as well. No turtle tanks? No one worth their salt in CP cares about turtle tanks, they literally can't scratch even the glassiest of builds, you just ignore them and go on your merry way. Much better balance? The game is literally balanced around CP, it is absolutely not true that non-CP has better balance. Fights only last forever in CP if you don't know how to: a) put together a proper build b) chain and time a proper burst rotation c) have good target priority.

All in all, CP is just way more fun for the 'competitive' PvP community that wants to min-max and have fun, dynamic outnumbered fights.

montiferus

Nobody plays no-cp on xbox. If you want to fight actual players and not guards one of the CP campaigns is your only choice.

MaxJrFTW

Baconlad wrote: »

People play CP campaigns because it's not fun to get killed by two players when you know you can kill them 1v1 in no cp or CP.

In CP I might stand a chance even if they are 810. The CP allows me the slight amount of breathing room needed to take on multiple players.

Anyone who claims they enjoy no cp more is either a zergling glass canon build, or a small scale player with a pocket healer. You like no cp because you dont run across players who try to build balanced, you run across players like you...zerglings who die to the drop if a hat.

You can 1vX in nocp sure...its possible, but its insanely harder on me as solo, and incredibly easier for zerglings to kill me with less numbers.

Having said that, I dont care if all CP were removed. Just give me my crit, regens and max stats that they took away from me when they implemented the champion system.

No CP is purposely gimping yourself.

There also aren't *** for fights

Your post can be summarized with, "i prefer cp because it gives me an advantage over players that are not cp capped". You're scared of people being on an even plainfield which is what no cp is, you'd lose your advantage.

You're taking a shot at this guy by calling him a zergling, and saying he doesn't run across well balanced builds. Yet you're a 1vxer...You're not out there looking to fight good players. Everyone knows you can't 1vx good players. You're looking for low cp players so you can crutch on your cp and beat them.

1vX = cp cap player seal clubbing new or less skilled players. Don't try to disguise it as anything other than that.

CatchMeTrolling

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The obvious alternative to Vivec is Sotha Sil. Sotha Sil on PC NA is a dead campaign due to the fact that DC practically owns the server. The campaign winner is usually decided within a week of a reset.

It all comes down to Fengrush. The moment he starts streaming hundreds of DC players flood Sotha and the other 2 factions are more often than not outnumbered because the stream draws a lot of people, and outmatched because he has made sure to poach every decent player the other 2 factions had.

It goes without saying that the sorry state of Sotha Sil pushes everyone into Vivec. Sotha is not a viable alternative.

Baconlad wrote: »

People play CP campaigns because it's not fun to get killed by two players when you know you can kill them 1v1 in no cp or CP.

In CP I might stand a chance even if they are 810. The CP allows me the slight amount of breathing room needed to take on multiple players.

Anyone who claims they enjoy no cp more is either a zergling glass canon build, or a small scale player with a pocket healer. You like no cp because you dont run across players who try to build balanced, you run across players like you...zerglings who die to the drop if a hat.

You can 1vX in nocp sure...its possible, but its insanely harder on me as solo, and incredibly easier for zerglings to kill me with less numbers.

Having said that, I dont care if all CP were removed. Just give me my crit, regens and max stats that they took away from me when they implemented the champion system.

No CP is purposely gimping yourself.

There also aren't *** for fights

Your post can be summarized with, "i prefer cp because it gives me an advantage over players that are not cp capped". You're scared of people being on an even plainfield which is what no cp is, you'd lose your advantage.

You're taking a shot at this guy by calling him a zergling, and saying he doesn't run across well balanced builds. Yet you're a 1vxer...You're not out there looking to fight good players. Everyone knows you can't 1vx good players. You're looking for low cp players so you can crutch on your cp and beat them.

1vX = cp cap player seal clubbing new or less skilled players. Don't try to disguise it as anything other than that.

Pretty much this. I only go to open world to small scale or attempt to 1vx players. When you don’t come across the “wait for reinforcement” builds the majority of everyone else is easy to kill. Ironically, this is why a lot of people build tanky because they’re scared to die or get “exposed” as if dying isn’t a part of the game. I spent years farming players in there and can admit it wasn’t that impressive (even with aoe caps) as people make it out to be. At this point I’ve probably played both equally, my opinion comes without bias. Probably have over 2-3k thousand bg matches played and I had almost 200k alliance kills on an account I haven’t touched since 2016.

Mr_Walker

montiferus wrote: »

Nobody plays no-cp on xbox. If you want to fight actual players and not guards one of the CP campaigns is your only choice.

BS. I've had some real quality small scale battles on Sotha on X-NA, and it's my preferred campaign of choice because of it. Esp. scroll chases. Was up to midnight one night with 2 groups alternately running a scroll halfway across the map, must have done 3 or 4 lengths of Cyrodiil by the time we were done.

montiferus

Mr_Walker wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Nobody plays no-cp on xbox. If you want to fight actual players and not guards one of the CP campaigns is your only choice.

BS. I've had some real quality small scale battles on Sotha on X-NA, and it's my preferred campaign of choice because of it. Esp. scroll chases. Was up to midnight one night with 2 groups alternately running a scroll halfway across the map, must have done 3 or 4 lengths of Cyrodiil by the time we were done.

lol BS? Literally every time Ive tried to go in there I spent all my time waiting at a resource for a fight. My buddy just sent me a clip of getting 24k ticks at resources becuase of the underpop bonus and said there were hardly any fights to be had so GTFO with that.

Datolite

montiferus wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Nobody plays no-cp on xbox. If you want to fight actual players and not guards one of the CP campaigns is your only choice.

BS. I've had some real quality small scale battles on Sotha on X-NA, and it's my preferred campaign of choice because of it. Esp. scroll chases. Was up to midnight one night with 2 groups alternately running a scroll halfway across the map, must have done 3 or 4 lengths of Cyrodiil by the time we were done.

lol BS? Literally every time Ive tried to go in there I spent all my time waiting at a resource for a fight. My buddy just sent me a clip of getting 24k ticks at resources becuase of the underpop bonus and said there were hardly any fights to be had so GTFO with that.

This is what disappoints me most. It's one thing for people to have preferences, but it seems CP PvP is almost like a default. Then you go into Vivec and see a bunch of vet players farming zerglings who don't know any better and acting like they accomplished something. That's about the time when I go back to BGs until the population on Sotha returns in the evening (EST).

Most of all i want this discussion to convince some people that if they want a more even playing field and faster paced PvP then we are waiting for them in the cool server. Bring your sustain food.

p00tx

Datolite wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

Nobody plays no-cp on xbox. If you want to fight actual players and not guards one of the CP campaigns is your only choice.

BS. I've had some real quality small scale battles on Sotha on X-NA, and it's my preferred campaign of choice because of it. Esp. scroll chases. Was up to midnight one night with 2 groups alternately running a scroll halfway across the map, must have done 3 or 4 lengths of Cyrodiil by the time we were done.

lol BS? Literally every time Ive tried to go in there I spent all my time waiting at a resource for a fight. My buddy just sent me a clip of getting 24k ticks at resources becuase of the underpop bonus and said there were hardly any fights to be had so GTFO with that.

This is what disappoints me most. It's one thing for people to have preferences, but it seems CP PvP is almost like a default. Then you go into Vivec and see a bunch of vet players farming zerglings who don't know any better and acting like they accomplished something. That's about the time when I go back to BGs until the population on Sotha returns in the evening (EST).

Most of all i want this discussion to convince some people that if they want a more even playing field and faster paced PvP then we are waiting for them in the cool server. Bring your sustain food.

In Vivec, you HAVE to farm the zerglings, because they chase you around the map in massive roving hoards. It's not a matter of not bothering them, it's that there is no way to avoid them.

Jakx

Its more of a discussion about people don't want to play on a dead campaign that when they go into it, EP has taken the entire map every time.

Its a cycle that has to be broken, if Sotha had a more consistent population at all times people would stick with it but right now its only Vivec so people stick to Vivec. Likely requires ZOS deciding to get rid of CP pvp altogether. Might be no better time with the CP changes around the corner. Let CP be a PvE thing.

montiferus

Datolite wrote: »

This is what disappoints me most. It's one thing for people to have preferences, but it seems CP PvP is almost like a default. Then you go into Vivec and see a bunch of vet players farming zerglings who don't know any better and acting like they accomplished something. That's about the time when I go back to BGs until the population on Sotha returns in the evening (EST).

Most of all i want this discussion to convince some people that if they want a more even playing field and faster paced PvP then we are waiting for them in the cool server. Bring your sustain food.

This sounds to be like you have a bias and are making some assumptions about how other people play. And for the record our group fights 2-3x our numbers. If that isn't good enough for you I don't really care. No-cp on xbox is dead. The best players and the toughest competition is on Vivec. Should that change I will change until thanks but no thanks to no-cp.

Iskiab

Weird, on PC a lot of the vivec guilds came to non-CP because there was better pvp. In the non-CP you have warframe and animosity as reds, legions of Mordor plus a *** ton of pugs as blue, AD has homicide and war bunnies. Of course there are other guilds too but the point is you have 3 way fights, usually fighting two factions at once.

It’s fun so I continue. CP I don’t have experience with and am sub-max CPs so wouldn’t consider it. I don’t know why someone would who’s under max CP and that’s why I’m surprised there’s anyone there at all.

Iskiab

I guess I never got to my point. If you aren’t max CP I don’t know why you’d do the CP campaign, I guess to get famous and have 5 seconds of fame as a kill in a 1vX video?

I’ve been playing for four months now (heavily) and am sub 700 CPs. The length of time to get to cap would make me think only a small subset of the population is max and would want to participate. It’s weird to me there’s anyone there at all.

Liww

no-CP is the best for me. It's far better paced with no rediculous strength differences outside of the skills you are slotting and gear you are sporting.

tbh sometimes I find no-cp slow and tanky, but cp beats that a thousandfold in terms of crazy tankiness, and atleast no-cp tanks cant turn around and one shot lol they do fulfill more of a support role in no-cp imo.