A Visual of Khajiit's New Stealth Capability (Stacking is quite extreme)

max_only

Anyone who has read the thread knows you are in favor of getting extreme stealth stacking and react poorly to any attempts to balance it. Your reaction is hardly impartial.

Also here is the exact quote if you want to be pedantic.

. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead.

Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic. If it’s not a universal mechanic they waste further development time to it? It’s either important or it’s not. Zos can’t say stealth is unimportant to dismiss people on one hand and then say it’s important enough to develop/care for on the other hand.

GrumpyDuckling

max_only wrote: »

Anyone who has read the thread knows you are in favor of getting extreme stealth stacking and react poorly to any attempts to balance it. Your reaction is hardly impartial.

Also here is the exact quote if you want to be pedantic.

. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead.

Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic. If it’s not a universal mechanic they waste further development time to it? It’s either important or it’s not. Zos can’t say stealth is unimportant to dismiss people on one hand and then say it’s important enough to develop/care for on the other hand.

I never claimed to be impartial. You are making up your own narrative and arguing against yourself in response to your own made up narrative.

If you use quotation marks in a statement that you say is from another source, then it should be exact. I don't know why you made up a false quote to begin with.

max_only

Zos and fans: “Stealth doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter so much that we are going to make a new stealth set to balance and code.”
Other than google translate I don’t know how to make my point any clearer.

Half of the people who used to stack stealth now have to pay extra for something that they used to have (for 5 years) and still be inferior in not only stealth itself but Also, combat.

Either they care about stealth or they don’t.

spacebandit

I am absolutely going to farm this set and run 3/5/4 stealth set. pickpocket/assassin on my khajits

GrumpyDuckling

max_only wrote: »

Zos and fans: “Stealth doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter so much that we are going to make a new stealth set to balance and code.”
Other than google translate I don’t know how to make my point any clearer.

Half of the people who used to stack stealth now have to pay extra for something that they used to have (for 5 years) and still be inferior in not only stealth itself but Also, combat.

Either they care about stealth or they don’t.

You are all over the place. Why do you keep making up fake quotes?

I get that you are referencing the removal of Bosmer sneak radius reduction -- and seeing that taken away sucks. I get it, I have Bosmer characters too, and I have written about ZOS' absurdity in their decision-making in this regard:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462783/zos-your-lackluster-communication-concerning-wood-elf-racial-changes-is-frustrating/p1

But why do you insist on holding true to ZOS' absurd reasoning for removing sneak (something you quite obviously disagree with) by also trying to punish Khajiit role play builds that invest all 12 of their armor slots in stealth? Just leave it alone, please. It doesn't ruin balance You can still advocate for the return of Bosmer stealth without trying to take down Khajiit. It sucks that I lost sneak radius reduction on my Bosmer characters, so please just let it be before ZOS messes something up with Khajiit too.

max_only

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paraphrase

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

Maybe this is an international misunderstanding or something......

But why do you insist on holding true to ZOS' absurd reasoning for removing sneak

Pointing out absurdity is a valid way to show error. It’s not aimed at you and it’s not a punishment on you. I’m talking to Zos who obviously have seen this thread. There isn’t a victim/persecutor dynamic between you and me.

Furthermore you can’t be punished for something you don’t have. I’m not taking anything away from Khajiit.

GrumpyDuckling

max_only wrote: »

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paraphrase

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

Maybe this is an international misunderstanding or something......

But why do you insist on holding true to ZOS' absurd reasoning for removing sneak

Pointing out absurdity is a valid way to show error. It’s not aimed at you and it’s not a punishment on you. I’m talking to Zos who obviously have seen this thread. There isn’t a victim/persecutor dynamic between you and me.

Furthermore you can’t be punished for something you don’t have. I’m not taking anything away from Khajiit.

1 - You don't put any quotation marks in a paraphrase unless you are quoting exactly, word for word, the words of another source within that paraphrase. If you are quoting another source, then it must be word for word unless you use brackets to indicate that you are changing a word or phrase within the quote. This is all English 101 level.

2 - You don't quote wikipedia as evidence because it's not a credible source. It can be changed by anyone. Again, English 101 level.

3 - International misunderstanding? I don't think so. Quoting and paraphrasing standards are quite universal in their application.

4 - I have already been clear in all of my points about Khajiit and the sneak radius reduction sets. Without anything more to add, I am concluding this discussion. Good day.

ganzaeso

The solution here is simple

REMOVE THE SNEAK PASSIVE FROM THE NEW SET

Racial passive have already had a pass and anything newly added should conform to fit the passive

max_only

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paraphrase

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

Maybe this is an international misunderstanding or something......

But why do you insist on holding true to ZOS' absurd reasoning for removing sneak

Pointing out absurdity is a valid way to show error. It’s not aimed at you and it’s not a punishment on you. I’m talking to Zos who obviously have seen this thread. There isn’t a victim/persecutor dynamic between you and me.

Furthermore you can’t be punished for something you don’t have. I’m not taking anything away from Khajiit.

1 - You don't put any quotation marks in a paraphrase unless you are quoting exactly, word for word, the words of another source within that paraphrase. If you are quoting another source, then it must be word for word unless you use brackets to indicate that you are changing a word or phrase within the quote. This is all English 101 level.

2 - You don't quote wikipedia as evidence because it's not a credible source. It can be changed by anyone. Again, English 101 level.

3 - International misunderstanding? I don't think so. Quoting and paraphrasing standards are quite universal in their application.

4 - I have already been clear in all of my points about Khajiit and the sneak radius reduction sets. Without anything more to add, I am concluding this discussion. Good day.

Thank god. It’s like talking to someone who doesn’t have personal affect.

Once we get into sources and bibliographies the discussion is weak and starved. Might as well jump all the way to Godwin’s law now.

Anyway for people who haven’t flown all the way over the point, the point is:

Half of the people who used to stack stealth now have to pay extra for something that they used to have (for 5 years) and still be inferior in not only stealth itself but Also, combat.

Removing this new set is NOT a direct nerf on Khajiit, seeing as with or without this set they will still be 3 meters ahead of everyone else. This set needs to be removed because it is insulting to believe that people should pay more real money to get back something they used to have and still be behind. I hope Zos takes away this set, not because I want people to “suffer”, but because it is the right thing to do if they don’t plan on restoring the game for their customers that aren’t furries.

KMarble

max_only wrote: »

Half of the people who used to stack stealth now have to pay extra for something that they used to have (for 5 years) and still be inferior in not only stealth itself but Also, combat.

Removing this new set is NOT a direct nerf on Khajiit, seeing as with or without this set they will still be 3 meters ahead of everyone else. This set needs to be removed because it is insulting to believe that people should pay more real money to get back something they used to have and still be behind. I hope Zos takes away this set, not because I want people to “suffer”, but because it is the right thing to do if they don’t plan on restoring the game for their customers that aren’t furries.

I'd like to preface this by saying that I too would love to see Wood Elves get their racial stealth back. That said, it really cheapens our argument when you rely on implications of P2W and then suggest to toss the baby out with the bath water.

This set is a very poor solution to the cries of "give Bosmers their stealth back", but it is, sadly, the solution they came up with. (BTW, that doesn't mean I'll stop lobbying to get the stealth racial back)

As for the last few words of your post, I can't even. I don't care what people do outside of the game, nor the labels they apply to themselves. As long as I'm having fun with those people I don't care if they're aliens, have fur, scales or are purple with orange polka-dots.
I'd also like to point out that maybe, just maybe, some of the furries you look down on might be playing a Wood Elf in game and are as annoyed by the changes to the passive as you are.

max_only

KMarble wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Half of the people who used to stack stealth now have to pay extra for something that they used to have (for 5 years) and still be inferior in not only stealth itself but Also, combat.

Removing this new set is NOT a direct nerf on Khajiit, seeing as with or without this set they will still be 3 meters ahead of everyone else. This set needs to be removed because it is insulting to believe that people should pay more real money to get back something they used to have and still be behind. I hope Zos takes away this set, not because I want people to “suffer”, but because it is the right thing to do if they don’t plan on restoring the game for their customers that aren’t furries.

I'd like to preface this by saying that I too would love to see Wood Elves get their racial stealth back. That said, it really cheapens our argument when you rely on implications of P2W and then suggest to toss the baby out with the bath water.

This set is a very poor solution to the cries of "give Bosmers their stealth back", but it is, sadly, the solution they came up with. (BTW, that doesn't mean I'll stop lobbying to get the stealth racial back)

As for the last few words of your post, I can't even. I don't care what people do outside of the game, nor the labels they apply to themselves. As long as I'm having fun with those people I don't care if they're aliens, have fur, scales or are purple with orange polka-dots.
I'd also like to point out that maybe, just maybe, some of the furries you look down on might be playing a Wood Elf in game and are as annoyed by the changes to the passive as you are.

Please don’t assume I mention furries as a pejorative. It is an adjective they call themselves.

Also I’m not implying it’s pay 2 win. No one wins anything by being stealthy. This is a shady business practice when you remove a past feature and then asked to be paid for the feature.

rfennell_ESO

nsmurfer wrote: »

That is very similar to how Khajiit and Bosmer are on live. With Night Mother's Embrace and Night Terror, I can literal do the same on Live, as sneak radius is effective 1, which is the hard lower cap on sneak radius. Khajiit new passive helps those optimize for stealth.

There is no cap on sneak.

Basically, the way it works is:
front:20 meters, side:10 meters, back:5 meters.

Medium armor (7 pieces) =20*.65=13m (6.5 side, 3.25 rear)


The known formula is:
F:20m*(medium armor (7 pieces =.65)=13m-2(thieves guild guard reduction)-2 (set)-2 (set) -2 (new set)-5 (kh)=0m
S:10m*.65=6.5m-2-2-2-2-5=-6.5m
R:5m*.65=3.25m-2-2-2-2-5=-9.75m

That's a khajiit with all 3 stealth sets equipped and 7/7 medium armor and a guard.

It's very niche and for what it is... probably not so overpowered for what it is and how limited in usefulness it is overall.

For any other races the same setup equates to F:5m, S:.5m, R:-2.75m, which is not "end of the world" stealth for TG or pickpocketing or whatever.

Compared to live, you can only achieve F:4m, S:-2.5m, R:-5.75m w/ bosmer/khajiit

---

PTS Khaj build in pvp w/ all 3 sets
F:2m, S:-4.5m, -7.75m
PTS non-Khaj pvp w/ all 3 sets.
F:7m, S:.5m, R:-2.75m

Live Khaj/Bosmer in pvp /w 2 sets
F:6m, S:-.5m, R: -3.75m
Live non stealth race in pvp /w 2 sets
F:9m, s:2.5m, R:-.75m

Some math might be slightly off (slightly), but it's about right.

It's certainly not going to make a Bosmer Nightblade not be able to engage in stealth play though.

Edit Post Script: The guard/witness passive might be on the front end of the equation. It's not going to be a huge difference any ways.
ie F:18m*.65=11.7m vs 11m.

rfennell_ESO

And just in case anyone is unknowing of the mechanics (and saying things like there is a 8m detection or there is a cap)

Shadowy disguise will still operate as stealth with all initial detection set to 0.

Normal detection: F:20, S:10, R:5
Shadowy disguise detection: F,S,R:0

You can calculate things from there, it's not terrible for any nightblade of any race to "get around" with shadowy disguise factored in.