A Visual of Khajiit's New Stealth Capability (Stacking is quite extreme)

Ertosi

starkerealm wrote: »

Left4Daud wrote: »

And before it gets brought up again, no, you can't sneak this well with a Bosmer OR Khajiit on Live with the current 3 meter bonus.

You can. You just can't do it without gear. You can get similar results on live with either Night Terror, or Night Mother's Embrace. (You can stack them together for more AI breaking shenanigans, if you really want.)

And if you want to move like lightning while doing it, don't forget to be a Vampire and swap out your jewelry to Swift. Throw on some rapids and you'll be able to stay stealth and keep up with running players... horses too, but only if the person is on a fresh toon and hasn't had many days to visit the stables.

GrumpyDuckling

Left4Daud wrote: »

I am not asking for any nerfs or buffs to either Bosmer, or Khajiit. I have made my peace with the racial changes. I am just showing this information because I don't believe anyone has tested the stealth reduction stacking, and, it can get quite extreme (though what does that matter)? Do with this information what you will.

I don't believe this statement to be true. Your tone and obsession with posting screenshots of a fully maxed sneak character suggest that you are asking for nerfs. You say, "what does it matter," but it obviously matters to you, or else you wouldn't even post about it with this much detail and relentlessness.

If someone wants to spend 8 out of 12 armor slots to fully dedicate their character to an extreme stealth build, then just let them. It's not OP in a way that it breaks game balance or gives players an overwhelmingly unfair advantage over others. All threads like this will do is outrage people about something they don't need to be outraged about, and increase the chances of a nerf to something that doesn't need to be nerfed.

Left4Daud

That's all well and good. All I'm saying is I can do things on the PTS with the extra 2 meter stack that when I remove, I can no longer do.

I can find ways to get detected with the below set up

7 medium armor (-35%)
5 pc nme set (-2 meters)
3 pc night terror set (-2 meters)
Thieves guild passive (-10%)
racial passive (-3 meters)

In the same way I get detected with the above set up, merely adding the new racial passive of (additional -2 meters) I can no longer get detected.

And that's all I was trying to present, my findings in that discrepancy. Unless you're privy to another stealth buff I'm unaware of, I don't see how my testing could be misleading.

Again, I'm not concerned with what is being achieved on Live. I am observing a Khajiit on the PTS get detected with all stealth bonuses and 2/3 of her racial passive, no longer get detected in the exact same scenario with 3/3 of her racial passive.

I don't know if I can explain it anymore clearly or if it's even necessary. It'll be what it'll be.

uFuqinwitme

It's not OP in a way that it breaks game balance or gives players an overwhelmingly unfair advantage over others.

After testing this passive and the way it interacts with enemies in dungeons on a Stamplar Khajiit on the PTS, gradually adding to the passive and checking the mobs that still pull, I can safely say it has an overwhelmingly noticeable difference on how quickly you can get through dungeons due to how difficult it is to be detected. An entire group of Khajiits can have a sneak setup and ignore pretty much any non mandatory trash/boss fights of their choosing.

I would normally disagree with you, but a group of Nightblades can use a Rapids-Cloak-Concealed combo to do this anyway. Because of the counter-productive RNG system for dropped sets in this game, it becomes very tempting and efficient to ignore as much of a dungeon as possible to reap its rewards. So in that way I suppose it is good that they give the other classes more freedom to pursue that path aswell.

GrumpyDuckling

uFuqinwitme wrote: »

It's not OP in a way that it breaks game balance or gives players an overwhelmingly unfair advantage over others.

After testing this passive and the way it interacts with enemies in dungeons on a Stamplar Khajiit on the PTS, gradually adding to the passive and checking the mobs that still pull, I can safely say it has an overwhelmingly noticeable difference on how quickly you can get through dungeons due to how difficult it is to be detected. An entire group of Khajiits can have a sneak setup and ignore pretty much any non mandatory trash/boss fights of their choosing.

I would normally disagree with you, but a group of Nightblades can use a Rapids-Cloak-Concealed combo to do this anyway. Because of the counter-productive RNG system for dropped sets in this game, it becomes very tempting and efficient to ignore as much of a dungeon as possible to reap its rewards. So in that way I suppose it is good that they give the other classes more freedom to pursue that path aswell.

Like you said, Nightblades can do this already... so nothing much to worry about.

PS4_ZeColmeia

Honestly It'd be cooler if bosmer, on top of the current passive, were immune to bonuses from stealth attacks. Essentially making them the counter to Khajiits.

That would be good racial interplay.

Iki

Could someone test this in pvp please? To see if it`s possible at all to find cloaking/sneaking khajiit nightblades with usual counter-stealth mechanics like radiant magelight or detection potions. Correct me if I`m wrong, but afaik reduction to detection radius also applies to nightblades cloak and now I`m wondering how ridiculously close to cloaking khajiit we would have to get to break cloak with detect pot, especially if one uses full medium armor with nightmothers embrace set...

max_only

Cursing in Bosmeri

max_only

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Twohothardware

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

Ertosi

Twohothardware wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

Just to clarify, for those unable to read an entire thread, crafty sneakers could already accomplish this. All the Khajiit stealth increase changes is making it much easier for everyone to do.

As a Khajiit sneakthief, I'm all for giving up this recent extra bonus to keep such easy sneakin' out of the hands of the zerging masses and keep Cyrodiil from getting even trollier, but only if we're able to pass that extra sneak bonus we're getting back to our Bosmer brothers and sisters.

Twohothardware

Ertosi wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

Just to clarify, for those unable to read an entire thread, crafty sneakers could already accomplish this. All the Khajiit stealth increase changes is making it much easier for everyone to do.

As a Khajiit sneakthief, I'm all for giving up this recent extra bonus to keep such easy sneakin' out of the hands of the zerging masses and keep Cyrodiil from getting even trollier, but only if we're able to pass that extra sneak bonus we're getting back to our Bosmer brothers and sisters.

I'd rather see Bosmers detection radius increased even further so they can better catch snipetards sitting in stealth. Bosmers are hunters and hunting is more about detecting your prey than staying hidden.

Ertosi

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

Just to clarify, for those unable to read an entire thread, crafty sneakers could already accomplish this. All the Khajiit stealth increase changes is making it much easier for everyone to do.

As a Khajiit sneakthief, I'm all for giving up this recent extra bonus to keep such easy sneakin' out of the hands of the zerging masses and keep Cyrodiil from getting even trollier, but only if we're able to pass that extra sneak bonus we're getting back to our Bosmer brothers and sisters.

I'd rather see Bosmers detection radius increased even further so they can better catch snipetards sitting in stealth. Bosmers are hunters and hunting is more about detecting your prey than staying hidden.

At least increasing their detection range would make the skill somewhat useful, but even then has critical problems. Mainly, that ability is only useful in PvP. No other race has a PvP-only skill calculated into their racial stats, and no race should. All racial stats should be at least somewhat useful in all game modes.

Cundu_Ertur

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

Just to clarify, for those unable to read an entire thread, crafty sneakers could already accomplish this. All the Khajiit stealth increase changes is making it much easier for everyone to do.

As a Khajiit sneakthief, I'm all for giving up this recent extra bonus to keep such easy sneakin' out of the hands of the zerging masses and keep Cyrodiil from getting even trollier, but only if we're able to pass that extra sneak bonus we're getting back to our Bosmer brothers and sisters.

I'd rather see Bosmers detection radius increased even further so they can better catch snipetards sitting in stealth. Bosmers are hunters and hunting is more about detecting your prey than staying hidden.

The hunter who is seen is a hunter who goes hungry.

Also, how many Khajiit snipers will Bosmer actually catch, considering they are in the same alliance?

And to reiterate what has already been pointed out, why are Bosmer the ONLY race that is punished with a passive (even just part of a passive) that is only even remotely of value in PVP?

Given the much better range and stealth defeating mechanics of available sets, spells, and potions this is a nothing passive even in the limited scope of the tiny fraction of the game where it would apply.

Twohothardware

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

Just to clarify, for those unable to read an entire thread, crafty sneakers could already accomplish this. All the Khajiit stealth increase changes is making it much easier for everyone to do.

As a Khajiit sneakthief, I'm all for giving up this recent extra bonus to keep such easy sneakin' out of the hands of the zerging masses and keep Cyrodiil from getting even trollier, but only if we're able to pass that extra sneak bonus we're getting back to our Bosmer brothers and sisters.

I'd rather see Bosmers detection radius increased even further so they can better catch snipetards sitting in stealth. Bosmers are hunters and hunting is more about detecting your prey than staying hidden.

The hunter who is seen is a hunter who goes hungry.

Also, how many Khajiit snipers will Bosmer actually catch, considering they are in the same alliance?

And to reiterate what has already been pointed out, why are Bosmer the ONLY race that is punished with a passive (even just part of a passive) that is only even remotely of value in PVP?

Given the much better range and stealth defeating mechanics of available sets, spells, and potions this is a nothing passive even in the limited scope of the tiny fraction of the game where it would apply.

The easiest way to stay unseen when hunting is to see the prey coming from a far distance. That's why a sniper takes up position along long sight lines.

In PvP when fighting someone else that is stealthing it's much more beneficial to be able to detect them and pull them out than simply having a couple meters more stealth radius yourself but not knowing where the other guy is at.

It won't be just Khajiit that Bosmers can catch, you'll be able to see anybody sitting in stealth from further than you can now. Those groups that try to stealth outside keeps before sieging. Those snipe spammers that try to gank you. The MagNB's that move so fast in stealth. Regardless of race or class they'll have to stay further away from you than normal to remain stealthed if your Bosmer.

Jayne_Doe

Twohothardware wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

Just to clarify, for those unable to read an entire thread, crafty sneakers could already accomplish this. All the Khajiit stealth increase changes is making it much easier for everyone to do.

As a Khajiit sneakthief, I'm all for giving up this recent extra bonus to keep such easy sneakin' out of the hands of the zerging masses and keep Cyrodiil from getting even trollier, but only if we're able to pass that extra sneak bonus we're getting back to our Bosmer brothers and sisters.

I'd rather see Bosmers detection radius increased even further so they can better catch snipetards sitting in stealth. Bosmers are hunters and hunting is more about detecting your prey than staying hidden.

The hunter who is seen is a hunter who goes hungry.

Also, how many Khajiit snipers will Bosmer actually catch, considering they are in the same alliance?

And to reiterate what has already been pointed out, why are Bosmer the ONLY race that is punished with a passive (even just part of a passive) that is only even remotely of value in PVP?

Given the much better range and stealth defeating mechanics of available sets, spells, and potions this is a nothing passive even in the limited scope of the tiny fraction of the game where it would apply.

The easiest way to stay unseen when hunting is to see the prey coming from a far distance. That's why a sniper takes up position along long sight lines.

In PvP when fighting someone else that is stealthing it's much more beneficial to be able to detect them and pull them out than simply having a couple meters more stealth radius yourself but not knowing where the other guy is at.

It won't be just Khajiit that Bosmers can catch, you'll be able to see anybody sitting in stealth from further than you can now. Those groups that try to stealth outside keeps before sieging. Those snipe spammers that try to gank you. The MagNB's that move so fast in stealth. Regardless of race or class they'll have to stay further away from you than normal to remain stealthed if your Bosmer.

Again, the main problem is that this will be a USELESS passive for anyone not playing in PvP. I, for one, won't be taking this passive at all if it goes live as is. I can get that bonus movement speed from roll dodge on my bow. Don't need this passive at all in PvE content. Besides, talking hunter in general, and not your example of a sniper, most prey DO NOT SNEAK. So, for flavor, it's still pretty useless, since hunting regular prey (that Bosmer are doing in the wilds of Valenwood), they will be sneaking up on their prey to kill them, not detecting a deer that somehow can sneak.

Bottom line is that this is an extremely niche passive and only useful to a portion of the player base and then only if they want to sneak around detecting other sneaking players. How many PvPers even do that?

Cundu_Ertur

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

Just to clarify, for those unable to read an entire thread, crafty sneakers could already accomplish this. All the Khajiit stealth increase changes is making it much easier for everyone to do.

As a Khajiit sneakthief, I'm all for giving up this recent extra bonus to keep such easy sneakin' out of the hands of the zerging masses and keep Cyrodiil from getting even trollier, but only if we're able to pass that extra sneak bonus we're getting back to our Bosmer brothers and sisters.

I'd rather see Bosmers detection radius increased even further so they can better catch snipetards sitting in stealth. Bosmers are hunters and hunting is more about detecting your prey than staying hidden.

The hunter who is seen is a hunter who goes hungry.

Also, how many Khajiit snipers will Bosmer actually catch, considering they are in the same alliance?

And to reiterate what has already been pointed out, why are Bosmer the ONLY race that is punished with a passive (even just part of a passive) that is only even remotely of value in PVP?

Given the much better range and stealth defeating mechanics of available sets, spells, and potions this is a nothing passive even in the limited scope of the tiny fraction of the game where it would apply.

The easiest way to stay unseen when hunting is to see the prey coming from a far distance. That's why a sniper takes up position along long sight lines.

In PvP when fighting someone else that is stealthing it's much more beneficial to be able to detect them and pull them out than simply having a couple meters more stealth radius yourself but not knowing where the other guy is at.

It won't be just Khajiit that Bosmers can catch, you'll be able to see anybody sitting in stealth from further than you can now. Those groups that try to stealth outside keeps before sieging. Those snipe spammers that try to gank you. The MagNB's that move so fast in stealth. Regardless of race or class they'll have to stay further away from you than normal to remain stealthed if your Bosmer.

Again, the main problem is that this will be a USELESS passive for anyone not playing in PvP. I, for one, won't be taking this passive at all if it goes live as is. I can get that bonus movement speed from roll dodge on my bow. Don't need this passive at all in PvE content. Besides, talking hunter in general, and not your example of a sniper, most prey DO NOT SNEAK. So, for flavor, it's still pretty useless, since hunting regular prey (that Bosmer are doing in the wilds of Valenwood), they will be sneaking up on their prey to kill them, not detecting a deer that somehow can sneak.

Bottom line is that this is an extremely niche passive and only useful to a portion of the player base and then only if they want to sneak around detecting other sneaking players. How many PvPers even do that?

Exactly this. Also, snipers also tend to lie down when sniping. They will also frequently wear something called a ghillie suit. That's not to increase how well they see the other guy.

As for PVP, magelight does it better. Detect potions do it better. Sets do it better. Even in the limited scope of PVP it is not that great.

You also didn't address the other issue: why is Bosmer the ONLY race to get hosed with a PVP only passive?

You know who else hunts? EVERY RACE IN THE GAME. This is a silly passive.

GaunterODim

That is a tiny bit extreme. You guys might want to take a look into this before it goes live.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_Liforce or whoevers field that would be.

Sevn

Twohothardware wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

As pointed out, master thieves have been doing this for ages already. The only difference now is I won't have to use two different sets to achieve this same result with my kittykat thief.

Twohothardware

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

Just to clarify, for those unable to read an entire thread, crafty sneakers could already accomplish this. All the Khajiit stealth increase changes is making it much easier for everyone to do.

As a Khajiit sneakthief, I'm all for giving up this recent extra bonus to keep such easy sneakin' out of the hands of the zerging masses and keep Cyrodiil from getting even trollier, but only if we're able to pass that extra sneak bonus we're getting back to our Bosmer brothers and sisters.

I'd rather see Bosmers detection radius increased even further so they can better catch snipetards sitting in stealth. Bosmers are hunters and hunting is more about detecting your prey than staying hidden.

The hunter who is seen is a hunter who goes hungry.

Also, how many Khajiit snipers will Bosmer actually catch, considering they are in the same alliance?

And to reiterate what has already been pointed out, why are Bosmer the ONLY race that is punished with a passive (even just part of a passive) that is only even remotely of value in PVP?

Given the much better range and stealth defeating mechanics of available sets, spells, and potions this is a nothing passive even in the limited scope of the tiny fraction of the game where it would apply.

The easiest way to stay unseen when hunting is to see the prey coming from a far distance. That's why a sniper takes up position along long sight lines.

In PvP when fighting someone else that is stealthing it's much more beneficial to be able to detect them and pull them out than simply having a couple meters more stealth radius yourself but not knowing where the other guy is at.

It won't be just Khajiit that Bosmers can catch, you'll be able to see anybody sitting in stealth from further than you can now. Those groups that try to stealth outside keeps before sieging. Those snipe spammers that try to gank you. The MagNB's that move so fast in stealth. Regardless of race or class they'll have to stay further away from you than normal to remain stealthed if your Bosmer.

Again, the main problem is that this will be a USELESS passive for anyone not playing in PvP. I, for one, won't be taking this passive at all if it goes live as is. I can get that bonus movement speed from roll dodge on my bow. Don't need this passive at all in PvE content. Besides, talking hunter in general, and not your example of a sniper, most prey DO NOT SNEAK. So, for flavor, it's still pretty useless, since hunting regular prey (that Bosmer are doing in the wilds of Valenwood), they will be sneaking up on their prey to kill them, not detecting a deer that somehow can sneak.

Bottom line is that this is an extremely niche passive and only useful to a portion of the player base and then only if they want to sneak around detecting other sneaking players. How many PvPers even do that?

The Stealthy passive as a whole has always been a useless passive for the larger percentage of the player base outside of PvP and even there only really benefited Nightblades. The majority of players in end-game PvE rarely if ever sneak because it's not required and stealth activities like stealing is less productive than just farming enemies normally. It's why races like Redguard, Dark Elf, High Elf, and Argonian are the most popular build choices despite lacking stealth passives.

Strictly speaking from a role playing perspective though many animals and creatures absolutely do sneak and use camouflage to stay hidden. But as you said, non player enemies in ESO don't sneak so you don't need to detect them, but you also don't need to stealth to kill them either.

In PvP you also don't need to sneak around to benefit from an increased detection radius. Other players that try to sneak up on you will be pulled out of stealth from further away. I'd be for them increasing this radius to like 8-9 meters though to give a more noticeable impact.

And the 20% speed bonus from the passive stacks on top of the major expedition from a bow giving you better than StamSorc movement. Ignoring the passive altogether just means you'll be noticeably slower than you could be when you roll dodge.

Ertosi

Twohothardware wrote: »

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For a true Master Thief, this is nothing new.





It's ever so much fun in Cyrodiil being able to enter zergs, take out the healers, and watching the hornet's nest explode everywhere looking for you (especially for someone like me who sucks at PvP). I've had players often bump into me without seeing me; it takes contact of more than a second or so normally for their detection to kick in.

And yes, this is on Live.

Edit: The sad part is my Bosmer won't be able to do the same any more due to their race losing their stealth bonuses. Stealth detection is such a useless ability.

Dear Yfrre please give us back our racial sneak!

Khajiit stealth passive changing from 3m to 5m needs to be reverted back or they need to adjust the cap for how much total reduction bonus you can stack. You shouldn't be able able to sit an inch in front of an enemy completely unseen without using Cloak. That's just stupid and will create problems down the road that ZOS isn't thinking of like an army of khajiit completely skipping to the end of a trial or something without fighting a single enemy lol.

Just to clarify, for those unable to read an entire thread, crafty sneakers could already accomplish this. All the Khajiit stealth increase changes is making it much easier for everyone to do.

As a Khajiit sneakthief, I'm all for giving up this recent extra bonus to keep such easy sneakin' out of the hands of the zerging masses and keep Cyrodiil from getting even trollier, but only if we're able to pass that extra sneak bonus we're getting back to our Bosmer brothers and sisters.

I'd rather see Bosmers detection radius increased even further so they can better catch snipetards sitting in stealth. Bosmers are hunters and hunting is more about detecting your prey than staying hidden.

The hunter who is seen is a hunter who goes hungry.

Also, how many Khajiit snipers will Bosmer actually catch, considering they are in the same alliance?

And to reiterate what has already been pointed out, why are Bosmer the ONLY race that is punished with a passive (even just part of a passive) that is only even remotely of value in PVP?

Given the much better range and stealth defeating mechanics of available sets, spells, and potions this is a nothing passive even in the limited scope of the tiny fraction of the game where it would apply.

The easiest way to stay unseen when hunting is to see the prey coming from a far distance. That's why a sniper takes up position along long sight lines.

In PvP when fighting someone else that is stealthing it's much more beneficial to be able to detect them and pull them out than simply having a couple meters more stealth radius yourself but not knowing where the other guy is at.

It won't be just Khajiit that Bosmers can catch, you'll be able to see anybody sitting in stealth from further than you can now. Those groups that try to stealth outside keeps before sieging. Those snipe spammers that try to gank you. The MagNB's that move so fast in stealth. Regardless of race or class they'll have to stay further away from you than normal to remain stealthed if your Bosmer.

Again, the main problem is that this will be a USELESS passive for anyone not playing in PvP. I, for one, won't be taking this passive at all if it goes live as is. I can get that bonus movement speed from roll dodge on my bow. Don't need this passive at all in PvE content. Besides, talking hunter in general, and not your example of a sniper, most prey DO NOT SNEAK. So, for flavor, it's still pretty useless, since hunting regular prey (that Bosmer are doing in the wilds of Valenwood), they will be sneaking up on their prey to kill them, not detecting a deer that somehow can sneak.

Bottom line is that this is an extremely niche passive and only useful to a portion of the player base and then only if they want to sneak around detecting other sneaking players. How many PvPers even do that?

The Stealthy passive as a whole has always been a useless passive for the larger percentage of the player base outside of PvP

I'm must strongly disagree with that. The Stealthy passive goes a long ways to helping anyone sneak around; it really makes a difference. I mean, I can sneak well on any toon, but it's just so much better with races that have the Stealthy passive (RIP bosmers). I have alts of many races but it's my Stealthy races I play most. I'm very saddened to have that roster cut in half in the upcoming patch.

Stealth is one of my favorite and most used mechanics in the game... and that's in all game modes. It lets you earn gold wicked fast through pickpocketing and raiding loot boxes. It lets you avoid wasting time fighting mobs. That's part is especially important for me now that CP has been capped... I'm well over the CP limit so why would I ever fight a mob now when I have no reason to waste the time? Even before that, it's fantastic for collecting resource nodes as playing with mobs only reduces your ore/wood/rune collection rates.

And as a Master Thief, I always have eyes on all of the others sneaking about, and it's no few amount, as watching the paths others take can give good clues as to routes others find lucrative.

So you may find the Stealthy passive useless, but I truly doubt the larger community would agree. Now on the flip side, look around the forums lately and see what many vocal posters think about the Stealth Detection skill. Then you'll truly find the passive skill the larger percentage of the player base find useless.

Twohothardware

Bosmer

PvE - That sustain boost feels real good. Of all stamina races, they feel most natural to execute rotations with. This shows on how high consistent parses are. They might just eclipse Redguard on any build that does not use Weapon spammables by a neglible difference.

PvP - They are buffed significantly in PvP too, sustain wise. Though Stealthy passive loss is regrettable, the new roll bonus speed is times more powerful, for every playstyle, even stealthy ones. It is so good that it even might require adjustment. Bosmer, dodging with bow in Stealth, sneaks faster than running. Looks like, finally AD has an answer for a true Brawler race.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455283/racial-pve-pvp-feedback-and-some-recommended-changes-using-test-data-previously-performed#latest

Bosmer may have lost 3 meters from stealth but gained noticeably more than they gave up.

Ertosi

Twohothardware wrote: »

Bosmer

PvE - That sustain boost feels real good. Of all stamina races, they feel most natural to execute rotations with. This shows on how high consistent parses are. They might just eclipse Redguard on any build that does not use Weapon spammables by a neglible difference.

PvP - They are buffed significantly in PvP too, sustain wise. Though Stealthy passive loss is regrettable, the new roll bonus speed is times more powerful, for every playstyle, even stealthy ones. It is so good that it even might require adjustment. Bosmer, dodging with bow in Stealth, sneaks faster than running. Looks like, finally AD has an answer for a true Brawler race.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455283/racial-pve-pvp-feedback-and-some-recommended-changes-using-test-data-previously-performed#latest

Bosmer may have lost 3 meters from stealth but gained noticeably more than they gave up.

But you're speaking as a person who's already stated you thought that ability was useless, so have a biased opinion on the weights of what they've gained and lost. From my equally biased opinion, they've lost their one racial ability that brought me to them, so they've lost far more then they've gained as well as their racial identity. I love cats but don't want any more... I'm only one shy from officially becoming a crazy cat person.

kypranb14_ESO

Does this mean you're essentially invisible in PVP too? lol

Jaraal

dovakiin5574

I'm not seeing a problem here lol

max_only

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

I'm not seeing a problem here lol

I’m happy for y’all, really, it’s just.... saddening that Bosmer half your size and no tail to tuck away are as noticeable as a huge drunk Nord.

Hotdog_23

Looks good to me, Lmao. Stealing will be even that much easier. Hope it stays this way!

Vildebill

It's just a tiny difference from how it works on live now. I can practically sit in High King Emerics knee and pickpocket his guards with above named sets on a Khajiit.

Why do you even bother? The only thing that can come out of this thread is a nerf to a playstyle a lot of people enjoy, which is PvE stealing. It's not like this give some advantage in PvP.

dsalter

Left4Daud wrote: »

@susmitds

I showed in pics above that a Khajiit with the Live bonus of 3 meters cannot sneak in the exact capacity as a Khajiit with full PTS passives.

3 Meters (Live)



5 Meters (PTS)

i say nerf it back to 3 and instead give them a 4% move speed buff, i mean "swift" is kind of a khajiits thing