Race PvE DPS Difference Tests for both Stamina and Magicka, Results and Graphical Breakdown

John_Falstaff

royo wrote: »

Stamblades are 10k+ higher than magblades on live. People need to calm down with the stam is going to be dead narrative. Stamblades have broken 95k single target in raids. Take a deep breath. Stam Stamblade is still king and it isn't even close.

I've fixed that. ^^ Stamblade is a very bad scale to measure stamina performance by. I, of course, understand that stamina nowadays is divided into "stamblades" and "other rubbish"... ^^

MLGProPlayer

nsmurfer wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Liko gets noticeably higher parses on Khajiit than Altmer/Breton. I'm guessing yours were solo parses?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c-HGXW_B7EE

The balance between Breton and Altmer seems great. But Khajiit appear to be a bit overtuned.

Again, that's not a comparison of any sort. Just a Khajiit Magblade DPS test, not even self-buffed. Under the same conditions, there are higher Breton DPS tests possible.

You need to test multiple times to get an accurate picture. that's exactly what's being done here. Also Op made it clear time and time that it's self buffed.

Read the description. They ran multiple tests with all the races (videos just aren't up yet). And group buffed tests are what you are supposed to be running for accurate results since they mimic trial/dungeon settings.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Would be nice to see Dunmer get a tiny bit of help with sustain or something.

The jagged nature of your Stam Dunmer tests really highlights how big of an issue it can make your rotation. Tiny mistakes can cost you huge DPS.

Difficult to buff without taking something else away though, dunmer already having the top potential when supported by a healer's sustain aid. Super fun playing stam dunmer though, even if the stamina management is a difficult bottleneck to play around.

royo

John_Falstaff wrote: »

royo wrote: »

Stamblades are 10k+ higher than magblades on live. People need to calm down with the stam is going to be dead narrative. Stamblades have broken 95k single target in raids. Take a deep breath. Stam Stamblade is still king and it isn't even close.

I've fixed that. ^^ Stamblade is a very bad scale to measure stamina performance by. I, of course, understand that stamina nowadays is divided into "stamblades" and "other rubbish"... ^^

Except that every single stam class is destroying it's magic equivalent in raid, with the possible exception of templar. Stamplars and magplars are fairly close but obviously stamplars bring far better group utility.

huschdeguddzje

Can you do a test for stam races with a mag build and vice versa? Interested in seeing the difference flat stat increases make

StarOfElyon

Azyle1 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

Thank you for giving us some real data. I'm disappointed in the stamina numbers for khajiit. #buffkhajiit

All the numbers are so close that it doesn't really matter for stam.. however....

The issue is stam is just straight nerfed now. Prepare for nothing but mag because people will say stam is too weak.

The weakest Stamina is within 2k of the strongest Magicka. Honestly, I don't know how much closer you can get.

Because people like to think if it is weaker, it is holding a group back.

Also why does Magicka get:

1 - range
2- good shields
3 - more dps


????

Magicka characters have lower resistances. That's high risk as well. Higher offense for weaker defense.

DKs have gap closers and NBs have cloak and mobility to get in and take advantage of the lower physical resistance that light armor grants.

John_Falstaff

@royo , it's all good and dandy, but thing is, stamplars won't be competing with magplars for the place under the sun. They'll be competing with magblades...

DjMuscleboy02

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@royo , it's all good and dandy, but thing is, stamplars won't be competing with magplars for the place under the sun. They'll be competing with magblades...

Worse yet, they'll compete with Stamblades.

John_Falstaff

@DjMuscleboy02 , well, then we have our amazingly diverse group composition laid out for the next half a year or more. ^^

DjMuscleboy02

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@DjMuscleboy02 , well, then we have our amazingly diverse group composition laid out for the next half a year or more. ^^

All Khajjit nightblades, I'm so glad these race changes will be introducing a more diverse raiding environment.

Fallewarrior

nsmurfer wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Liko gets noticeably higher parses on Khajiit than Altmer/Breton. I'm guessing yours were solo parses?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c-HGXW_B7EE

The balance between Breton and Altmer seems great. But Khajiit appear to be a bit overtuned.

Again, that's not a comparison of any sort. Just a Khajiit Magblade DPS test, not even self-buffed. Under the same conditions, there are higher Breton DPS tests possible.

You need to test multiple times to get an accurate picture. that's exactly what's being done here. Also Op made it clear time and time that it's self buffed.

Who cares about solo self buffed. It's all about being the most dps in a group setup. For solo content you can pick a nord dd and be fine lol.

Thorstienn

I appreciate what you did. Personally I just do this sort of thing for myself/guild now, as if you're not a youtuber with group buffs noone cares.
In saying that: in future I've found it's good to do a couple more parses, then subtract the highest and lowest, then get your averages. As your graph shows, there are some outliers. I also tend to use the same food for all tests (usually rec food as I'm self buffed) then make a note of sustain.
Finally, should of done Nord! You left 1 race out, and it has a perks that can relate to dps.
Overall gg. A for effort.

Jerzeeboii

If it's no trouble, can you share enchants used on your Jewerly and CP allocation?

cheifsoap

Is there one of these for sustainment and tanking? I'm a little concerned that the nerf to Agonians was a knee jerk reaction to their passive based on the potion enchants+infused.

IronWooshu

Daus wrote: »

Didn't test Nord eh?

We already know our place as any aspiring Nord DPS player does as well. Last in Magicka and Last in Stamina.

However we will probably be first in PVP and first in ranking which is both things I play my Nord Warden for.

IonicKai

Thank you for providing some data to work with. Based on this I think they should leave the dw enchants alone as it was pretty crippling to sustain by the looks of it.

cheifsoap

IronWooshu wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Didn't test Nord eh?

We already know our place as any aspiring Nord DPS player does as well. Last in Magicka and Last in Stamina.

However we will probably be first in PVP and first in ranking which is both things I play my Nord Warden for.

But...but...Shalidor

weedgenius

I wish there was a way to do a data-driven comparative test like this for healing and tanking.

Great stuff, thanks!

The_Yellow_King

susmitds wrote: »

Updated with results.

This is really amazing work. You must be a rotation god. So I really dont have to trash my dunmer.

Did I miss it or did you specify for mag did you use flame staff for all or lightning mixed in for altmer or breton?

pshift

Azyle1 wrote: »

The issue is stam is just straight nerfed now. Prepare for nothing but mag because people will say stam is too weak.

Lol what? Are we reading the same numbers? They are so close it could easily be within the margin of error, not to mention you can easily make (or break) a 1-2k dps difference with simply different rotation, food, gear, or just from being more alert at that particular time.

Why do you people overreact to everything? It's hardly "straight nerfed" or "too weak".

eso_nya

Great post! Do u prefer insightful or awesome?

Could u be bothered to run a series of tests w/o putting in passives, to see their impact?

LiquidPony

pshift wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

The issue is stam is just straight nerfed now. Prepare for nothing but mag because people will say stam is too weak.

Lol what? Are we reading the same numbers? They are so close it could easily be within the margin of error, not to mention you can easily make (or break) a 1-2k dps difference with simply different rotation, food, gear, or just from being more alert at that particular time.

Why do you people overreact to everything? It's hardly "straight nerfed" or "too weak".

@pshift the "straight nerf" to stamina has nothing to do with races, it's due to the 1H enchant changes.

It's obviously too early to say whether or not this is going to really change group comp, stamblades are still strong, but the enchant changes were 100% obviously a significant nerf to all DW stam specs. There's really no way around that. Seems like it's about a 3-5k DPS loss depending on exactly how you construct your new setup, what race you are, how well you can sustain it, etc.

So far I've had the best luck swapping to Nirn/Precise DW, with Double Damage Health Alchemical Poisons, Infused Berserker backbar running Stormfist on an Orc or sticking with Velidreth on Redguard/Bosmer. In that case it's right around ~3k lower than I was hitting last patch but sustain is *really* tight so I'm not totally sure it's sustainable in-raid. Will have to test more.

Vomalash

What about the Nords?

The_Yellow_King

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@DjMuscleboy02 , well, then we have our amazingly diverse group composition laid out for the next half a year or more. ^^

All Khajjit nightblades, I'm so glad these race changes will be introducing a more diverse raiding environment.

I dont understand this. His numbers show 500 dps separating the top 5 stamnb, and 600 dps separating the top 4 nb.

That is extremely close! Why would we see an army of kajiit aside from the fact that they are coming out with Elsweyr?

Azyle1

The_Yellow_King wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@DjMuscleboy02 , well, then we have our amazingly diverse group composition laid out for the next half a year or more. ^^

All Khajjit nightblades, I'm so glad these race changes will be introducing a more diverse raiding environment.

I dont understand this. His numbers show 500 dps separating the top 5 stamnb, and 600 dps separating the top 4 nb.

That is extremely close! Why would we see an army of kajiit aside from the fact that they are coming out with Elsweyr?

There are other reports claiming with certain setups, Khajiit are towards the top of both Stam and Mag. One report isn't the end all, be all, though this is certainly insightful.

DjMuscleboy02

The_Yellow_King wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@DjMuscleboy02 , well, then we have our amazingly diverse group composition laid out for the next half a year or more. ^^

All Khajjit nightblades, I'm so glad these race changes will be introducing a more diverse raiding environment.

I dont understand this. His numbers show 500 dps separating the top 5 stamnb, and 600 dps separating the top 4 nb.

That is extremely close! Why would we see an army of kajiit aside from the fact that they are coming out with Elsweyr?

It was more or less a joke, however his results are close without Major Force. Applying Major Force with Khajjit crit bumps them up quite a bit.

I find it more humorous that there will still be little race diversity, rather just a shift in the "meta" race despite ZOS' best attempts to balance it. It's an MMO, there's always going to be a bis something.

Schattenfluegel

I like my Live Redguard Stamsorc

MLGProPlayer

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

The_Yellow_King wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@DjMuscleboy02 , well, then we have our amazingly diverse group composition laid out for the next half a year or more. ^^

All Khajjit nightblades, I'm so glad these race changes will be introducing a more diverse raiding environment.

I dont understand this. His numbers show 500 dps separating the top 5 stamnb, and 600 dps separating the top 4 nb.

That is extremely close! Why would we see an army of kajiit aside from the fact that they are coming out with Elsweyr?

It was more or less a joke, however his results are close without Major Force. Applying Major Force with Khajjit crit bumps them up quite a bit.

I find it more humorous that there will still be little race diversity, rather just a shift in the "meta" race despite ZOS' best attempts to balance it. It's an MMO, there's always going to be a bis something.

Crit is tricky to balance. But as things stand, there would be no reason to pick any race other than Khajiit for endgame magicka DPS (not sure if it's the same for stamina). Altmer and Breton are insanely close and balanced quite nicely (Breton is probably a bit better, but the difference is so small it doesn't matter). I'm guessing a small nerf to Khajiit crit% would put them in line with the others (maybe 5-6%).

John_Falstaff

@MLGProPlayer , I replied to the point in another thread, with Liko's parses. On those parses, yes, khajiits even overshoots some with raid buffs, but the sustain difference with altmer (beats me why) was huge on the metrics report. Both parses were unsustainable, but khajiit is behind by a huge margin, so everything will boil down to whether khajiit will be able to sustain in real situation, or will have to trade the advantage away for regen food (and so max stats).

Twohothardware

I just like the fact that we are FINALLY seeing different Races at the top and different testers are coming up with different results showing multiple Races can take top spots with the right conditions. Was getting so sick of seeing Redguard and Dark Elf PvE and Argonian everything PvP.