Nerf Rapids

Qbiken

Sharee wrote: »

Diundriel wrote: »

EU has a couple of really good organized groups and a lot of halfway organized group...
from eu perspective this change gonna hurt cyro, may be different on na...

From where i am standing, a cyro without ball groups looks much better than with them.

Cyrodil without huge as zergs looks so much better. Would rather have ballgroups than zergs, not gona lie.

Moonsorrow

Thogard wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Now is the best time ever for everyone to become an Archer and join the zerg. There can spam snipe and get kills from safety of the numbers. When bored, can go do battlegrounds for some "riveting gameplay".

Lol truth.

But interestingly enough, snipe meme builds got a subtle nerf this patch with the 10% bonus dmg from hiding being removed from the racial passives.

Khajiit still has that, it was removed from Bosmer though, Edit: You are correct on the damage. their Stealthy passive was kind of split in half an Bosmer got that dodge roll speed thingy instead of the stealth damage bonus.

Rake

Noone have 10% bonus damage from steailth in their racial passives

Moonsorrow

Rake wrote: »

Noone have 10% bonus damage from steailth in their racial passives

You are right, had to check again and it was the stealth detection and detection radius reduction only that was split between them. Okay so 10% less on stealth snipe damage, well atleast can run with zerg and spam it and no need to crouch.. still if nb, gotta cloak for crits.

aetherial_heavenn

There is a great discussion of CC's here. The rapids change is fixing a symptom not a cause in my opinion.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454645/the-neutral-zone-trap-a-thorough-look-at-cc-in-this-game/p1

Sylphie

inb4 all raids next patch consists of only heavy armor stamdens, negates and healers.

Thrasher91604

Zerg ball farming groups are a pestilence on Cyrodiil and are boring gameplay. This change is a blessing. Thanks ZoS!

Sharee

Qbiken wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Diundriel wrote: »

EU has a couple of really good organized groups and a lot of halfway organized group...
from eu perspective this change gonna hurt cyro, may be different on na...

The entitlement in this post is unreal. I think the majority of PvP players would love to see ballgroups gone. You contribute nothing to PvP. All you do is create insane lag for everyone, making the game unplayable like yesterday evening in sotha. The only ones who are going to dislike this are the ballgroups. And then you have the audacity to say "this will hurt cyro..."

I would say the 50-60+man un organized pugs in the faction zerg contribute to the lag as much, if not more than a 12-16 man ball group.

Or in other words, a 16 man ball group causes so much lag that it would otherwise take 4 times as many players that do not ball up to create the same lag.

HansaBergen

So no more ball groups zerging me down with 15 ults? Thank you zenimax for the nerf!

pzschrek

Thogard wrote: »

pzschrek wrote: »

It heavily reinforces the stamina dominance in pvp, that’s for sure

This is actually a huge buff for my mag small scale group but we’re a niche extension spec.

Stam small scale won’t get run down as easily openworld though so that’s nice. No more hiding in towers (although still plenty of tower play).

@Thogard Yes, quite. To be clear I meant for ball groups.

I main magsorc so every movement nerf makes me stronger in open world of course.

Svidrir

That really a nerf for organised group ...


We are theoretically on a group game but everything is done to kill the groups ... Siege weapons, time stop, and now that


All this will favor those who spam 1 skill in the middle of 40 other spammers of 1 Skill

X: Bump, Bump, etc
X: time stop, time stop, time stop
X: Weapon (im not to spame i rest on weapon)
etc ....

A group organizes to, on average a person responsible for speed and she is far from doing only that, she heals, poses caltrop, uses are ultimate etc.

But the spammer in the zerg

1. I propose to remove out-of-group care, if you want care you only benefit from those in your group, or yours

Checkmath

Well PvP/endgame probably is a matter of opinion, but that does not really matter here
I agree with Thogard here, that organized groups now have to care more about the individual skill instead of putting that task of rapid spam on a few players dedicated to do so. Instead every group member has to deal with snares and roots now, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I can imagine, that good groups will adapt very fast and will overcome this matter easely. Approaches could include nbs providing speedbuff with twisting path, meanwhile all group members have to deal with roots and snares via shuffle (in case of stamina characters). Purge will surely play an important role in that too. I think the people most hit by this change are the less organized pvp groups, which play a rather more casual style. They now will have much more problems to move freely than a group that adapted to this change already, which means having even more problem to deal with the situations, they actually mastered before by just having someone taking care of mobility with rapids.

So in conclusion, I personally think that most ball groups will overcome this problem rather quickly. Meanwhile less organized groups will suffer.

PS. Do not get hit by a cold stone trebuchet again OP

Diundriel

haha the coldstone treb you wiped us with that when i was with fist in december^^
less organized Groups dont have a dedicated Spammer as organized Groups have and have not taken full Advantage of the root/snare removal, just of the Speed. Maybe making the skill just last for 3 seconds would help organized Groups to still use it and nerf less organized Groups that dont have a dedicated Spammer for it (most havent really) and also Change the other Morph that gives extra Speed so it fits better for solo/smallscale Players.
A bit like vigor: you got a raid Version for Group Play with bigger radius and a solo/smallscale Version that you benefit more of.
PS: sry for german autocorrection
@Checkmath what do you think About a Change like that to the "raid Morph" and to the other Morph that no one uses atm?
another idea i had would be to remove all roots/snares from your Group when you cast it, but completely remove the 30 sec immunity (just Maybe Keep the Speed)

TheBonesXXX

Great change, the Borg mindless drone types who think they're organized will come to realize they may have never been truly organized.

The_Shadowborn

BaylorCorvette

Thogard wrote: »

The top end PvP guilds are all happy about these changes.

Only the zerg guilds are upset. The rapids spammer will have to find a new job.

Agree. I support this change 100%

Aliyavana

You are a ball group, you dont need any buffs, you have numbers

Koensol

Qbiken wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Diundriel wrote: »

EU has a couple of really good organized groups and a lot of halfway organized group...
from eu perspective this change gonna hurt cyro, may be different on na...

The entitlement in this post is unreal. I think the majority of PvP players would love to see ballgroups gone. You contribute nothing to PvP. All you do is create insane lag for everyone, making the game unplayable like yesterday evening in sotha. The only ones who are going to dislike this are the ballgroups. And then you have the audacity to say "this will hurt cyro..."

I would say the 50-60+man un organized pugs in the faction zerg contribute to the lag as much, if not more than a 12-16 man ball group.

Funny then how the lag problems during the event were much, much less prevalent. Even on poplocked campaigns. Yet you can just feel the game become more and more laggy as a ball group approaches, like how it did yesterday. They can even lag out a campaign that isn't even poplocked, because their healing springs monkeys can't stop pushing their assigned button for even 1 second. The amount of calculations the server needs to proces in such a short time becomes a massive problem for the quality of gameplay for the rest of cyrodiil.

TheYKcid

Solo & smallscale players are able to deal with the snares and roots just fine. Despite heavily-nerfed immunity options since Murkmire. And despite having those snares & roots constantly reapplied—by multiple enemies for each one of them—when playing outnumbered.

What excuse could you possibly make for being unable to cope, when you've got a zerg of 24—healbots and meatshields included—to back you up?

del9

For everyone complaining - all the tools that the rest of the eso pvp population utilizes regularly to stay mobile are all still available to use. Learn to use them.

If you have a problem with the state of snares and roots in the game, then you should lobby the devs to decrease the amount of ground aoe snares and aoe roots in the game. But something tells me if you love rapids, you also love aoe spam.

Berenhir

TheYKcid wrote: »

Solo & smallscale players are able to deal with the snares and roots just fine. Despite heavily-nerfed immunity options since Murkmire. And despite having those snares & roots constantly reapplied—by multiple enemies for each one of them—when playing outnumbered.

What excuse could you possibly make for being unable to cope, when you've got a zerg of 24—healbots and meatshields included—to back you up?

Well, the raid groups here already presented their problems and excuses. Some are unable to deal with opponents outnumbering them or slowing them down, because they cannot run away spamming springs and equilibrium to reposition in a favourable choke point to then press w while counting to 8 (they said they now even have an add-on for proxies lol 8-)). People seem to fear that they have to fight outnumbered on even terms and their only advantage is their skill and coordination.

Funnily they also attribute their ability to spam an immunity skill for 24 players to their high organisation and coordination and feel that they therefore deserve big advantages over non coordinated groups.

The better ball group players have no issue with the lack of rapids as they can rely on their knowledge and situational awareness. Especially those people with half a brain cell saw that change coming since murkmire.

But a lot of these defenders of the glorious and most difficult form of group play (following a compass add-on to stay on crown and rotate abilities) fear meeting a number of single players and small groups that outnumbers themselves without structural advantages, revealing their personal lack of ability to deal with basic game mechanics like slows or roots.

Ahtu

I like this change. It encourages build diversity. Fights will be more interesting now.

Thrasher91604

The skill spamming zerg balls kill performance in Cyro that results in a highly degraded ability to counter them. Anything to discourage that sort of mindless and exploitive gameplay is highly appreciated. Thanks again!

Yrhn

Solo players still use retreating maneuver. Been playing mnb since console release. Once I acquired retreating maneuver it’s never been off my bar. I am almost always solo.

Irylia

Diundriel wrote: »

I just read the patch notes you planned and it looked good till i read this point. You basically will make all ball groups in pvp that actually keep pvp alive leave the game, as they want to play organized and cant do that if you complelety remove the only reason for rapids in group ... Zergs will still run in cyro, but you basically bash all PvP endgame groups out of the game.
I promise you if this go live like this i am also gonna quit the Game and all PvP Guilds i know and played with so for will aswell, as the only reason to still play this game is to raid (organized) together and you just destroy that complelty.
I hope we can prevent this as I and my Guild still enjoys raiding and dont wanna stop cause you make it simply not possible to raid anymore. 2 Caltrops will basically destroy your movement, the 15% less damage taken from behind wont help you if your grp gets stuck all time cause they cant sustain or slot a snare removeable skill.
Is one of the ZOS Team actually PvP raiding on an endgame level?

Good. I’m glad you will have to learn how to mitigate/sustain/dps/and move for yourself now that rapid speed is going to be nerfed.
For far too long have your organized raid types been able to abuse and crutch on every mechanic in the game. Earthgore/purge spam/rapids/siege shield/low sustain/layered healing from various players.

Maybe try to challenge yourself and wipe the things you try and do in a 16 man but with less and on builds that require you to raise the ceiling on your gameplay.

https://youtu.be/1hecXIVtm8g

https://youtu.be/YCgnwgfrUXc
10:32 primarily but feel free to watch all or parts of both vids.

And we came from doing it with 2-4
https://youtu.be/BWX0O_Tz_rE

This entire patch since snares and speed nerfs we have had to deal with the changes and adapt/improvise and still reach higher and higher goals.
IMO we have done that as showcased with the first two vids

This is a good change and hopefully next they address snares as a major minor system which will Be less oppressive while still requiring you to be self sufficient

Grimlok_S

This change is completely unraidlistic and brakes my immersion

Think of any military example in history - any army that has had the advantage of outnumbering their opponent should also have the advantage of speed and maneuverability, running circles around smaller groups.

ZOS_Mika

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. As a similar thread already exists, we will be closing this one down. We invite you to continue the discussion here.