Khajit becomes the only option for effective stealth gameplay. Broken Bosmer.

Everstorm

Feanor wrote: »

I love the RP flavored threads. I vote for a dedicated RP server where everyone can finally sit eternally in stealth while one shotting Raid bosses. Stealth as it’s implemented in ESO shouldn’t even be a part of the game.

I love people that are too dim to comprehend that there are people in the world with other preferences than their own. Oh wait, I don't.

Uryel

Feanor wrote: »

I love the RP flavored threads. I vote for a dedicated RP server where everyone can finally sit eternally in stealth while one shotting Raid bosses. Stealth as it’s implemented in ESO shouldn’t even be a part of the game.

Crawl back under your rock, please, you troll.

Feanor

Uryel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I love the RP flavored threads. I vote for a dedicated RP server where everyone can finally sit eternally in stealth while one shotting Raid bosses. Stealth as it’s implemented in ESO shouldn’t even be a part of the game.

Crawl back under your rock, please, you troll.

I’ll instead just play and enjoy the game .

Uryel

Feanor wrote: »

I’ll instead just play and enjoy the game .

By all means, do. That's what a game is for, right ? Which is precisely why I don't understand your reaction to us willing to keep enjoying the game.

This has nothing to do with RP, but with how we play our characters. Good for you if you fancy steamrolling trials, but I much rather prefer stealing stuff, going where I'm not supposed to be, or simply sneaking to whatever objective I have, killing the target, and sneak out. This isn't roleplay, I'm not talking about posing as a misterious figure in taverns and using pompous words to pretend I'm all high and mighty, like many (bad) roleplayers do. We'e talking about how we play the game, simple as that.

Feanor

@Uryel and @Everstorm

I retract my comment and apologize. After seeing this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455172/a-visual-of-khajiits-new-stealth-capability-stacking-is-quite-extreme at least. It’s a bit absurd I must admit.

Datthaw

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

Feanor

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

Already equipping my Bosmer stamNB for Wrathstone.

Everstorm

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

The dodge buff is awesome, it's the stealth detection thing that is useless. Bosmer lost both the stealth buff and the extra damage from stealth. Trading the 10% damage for the speed is fine, nobody is complaining about that. It's the useless stealth detection thing that comes in place of the stealth buff that is unneeded and unwanted.

Uryel

Feanor wrote: »

@Uryel and @Everstorm

I retract my comment and apologize. After seeing this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455172/a-visual-of-khajiits-new-stealth-capability-stacking-is-quite-extreme at least. It’s a bit absurd I must admit.

Thank you very much

On live, my bosmer can be almost as good as the khajiit shown in these pictures. But she's wearing one set to boost her stealth radius, and one to keep moving normally. I could theoretically be this stealthy, but at the cost of mobility, and at the cost of... Well, needing two sets just for that, which doesn't leave much room for combat flexibility. That isn't the focus of the character, though.

On PTS, Khajiits can be just as stealthy as I we are nowadays, WITHOUT any bonus gear. That is inded a tad bit extreme, but hey, I wouldn't mind all that much if the idea was to make one race stealthy AF and deprive the other from it entirely.

While most changes are adjustments (not all, but many), removing stealth from the bosmers is a radical change of what defines the race, and also goes against the lore soooo badly. I do understand that stealth is marginally used in game, that it has no use in trials and whatnot... Still, it is used, by people who play bosmers and not just only khajiits, many of those are not all that interested in raids ans high end content.

So basically, this update will kill the fun of all casual player who merely enjoys stealing sh*t and escaping the law. Among other things

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

Well I don't think you understand that some people do play differently from you and give zero f**ks about that speed bonus. But again, no one is complaining about the speed bonus. The problem is with stealth detection, absolutely useless in PvE, marginally useful in PvP, replacing a stealth bonus that may be marginally useful in PvE and PvP alike, that is at the core of how certain non-high-end-content characters have been created, and is also integral to the lore of the race.

If willing to play my character the way I like it, stealing sh*t and stuff, and a way that fits decades of lore, over some half-arsed competitive PvP gimmick makes me an idiot, then I'll gladly call myself an idiot. And as Georges Couteline would say, "Being taken for an imbecile by a fool is a delight for the finest minds".

TankinatorFR

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

More speed mean more need for me to wait for my friends before ingaging into the next fight. Because I already walk faster than them.
Not that useful...
But, well, I will not complain, it's better than nothing.

Speaking about nothing, the second part of the passive have no effect on any segment of the game out of PvP. And even there, I don't see it being that useful. Except maybe if I decide to play 1-2-3 sunshine with khadjit. I might see them better than others players. Need to test.
And I don't mean fight them, cause they would just unleash their arrows from a distance if they spot me, just like before.
So yep, while other race receive 2 bonus from this passive, bosmer receive 1 bonus and a lgroup of words...

max_only

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

Why not both?

Why can’t we sneak and roll? Why does it have to be all or nothing with you people?

It’s a two part passive, we are asking for a change to one part. Geebus

Uryel

Wing wrote: »

the stealthy passive only effects players chance of noticing you, not NPC's (it was purely a pvp skill) neither does the medium armor skill improved sneak, as it modified the same mechanic.
[..]
stealthy does not effect pve.

This is absolutely wrong. Maybe it wass true "ages ago" when you did test it, but it is wrong today. It's easy enough to test, on that we agree, though.

My wife plays a stealthy Breton. I play a stealthy Bosmer. We both play PvE only, and we both wear the same sets. WXe also have the same passives from Dark Brotherhood, thief line, and obviously we both wear medium armour in each slots. So of course we went sneaking into a public dungeon and noted when the mobs would notice each of use. Simple enough, really : I go forward about one meter, then she does, then I do again.

Result is always, 100% the same : at some point, I am still undetected by mobs, and whe she joins, me she gets detected. And if the difference isn't 3 meters, it's simply because I could sneak even closer without being detected, and she couldn't.

Give it a try, roll a bosmer, slap some medium armor on, go sneaking about, then try it with a Breton in light armour or a nord in heavy or whatever, you WILL notice a tremendous difference.

Cundu_Ertur

max_only wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

Why not both?

Why can’t we sneak and roll? Why does it have to be all or nothing with you people?

It’s a two part passive, we are asking for a change to one part. Geebus

It was a two part passive before, hide better and get a damage bonus out of sneak; and it is a two part now for both races that had the original -- the khajiit hide even better than before and get a critical bonus all the time, the bosmer see hidden things better (which is new) and move faster after a roll-dodge.


We are ONLY talking about the one part of the bosmer passive, where the ability to hide better was replaced with a useless ability to see hidden things; because we don't care about the rest. The rest is fine.

max_only

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

Why not both?

Why can’t we sneak and roll? Why does it have to be all or nothing with you people?

It’s a two part passive, we are asking for a change to one part. Geebus

It was a two part passive before, hide better and get a damage bonus out of sneak; and it is a two part now for both races that had the original -- the khajiit hide even better than before and get a critical bonus all the time, the bosmer see hidden things better (which is new) and move faster after a roll-dodge.


We are ONLY talking about the one part of the bosmer passive, where the ability to hide better was replaced with a useless ability to see hidden things; because we don't care about the rest. The rest is fine.

I know that... the person I was replying to made it seem like we were dumb to ask for stealth back because we got roll dodge boost. Why can’t we have both our current stealth passive AND the roll dodge passive?

Cundu_Ertur

max_only wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

Why not both?

Why can’t we sneak and roll? Why does it have to be all or nothing with you people?

It’s a two part passive, we are asking for a change to one part. Geebus

It was a two part passive before, hide better and get a damage bonus out of sneak; and it is a two part now for both races that had the original -- the khajiit hide even better than before and get a critical bonus all the time, the bosmer see hidden things better (which is new) and move faster after a roll-dodge.


We are ONLY talking about the one part of the bosmer passive, where the ability to hide better was replaced with a useless ability to see hidden things; because we don't care about the rest. The rest is fine.

I know that... the person I was replying to made it seem like we were dumb to ask for stealth back because we got roll dodge boost. Why can’t we have both our current stealth passive AND the roll dodge passive?

Just bolstering your argument, we're in full agreement. Or near enough for government work.

Bladewizard

If taking away bosmers stealth makes it to live, for me it just makes the decision on buying the expansion real easy, or paying my sub on both my accounts for that matter. Forcing me to change all my bosmer to khajit in order to continue to play the way I like wont work. I play solo pve. My sneaking around and having fun harms no one else in this game and if this goes live my favorite characters will all have to be changed to khajit. Not cool!

max_only

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

Why not both?

Why can’t we sneak and roll? Why does it have to be all or nothing with you people?

It’s a two part passive, we are asking for a change to one part. Geebus

It was a two part passive before, hide better and get a damage bonus out of sneak; and it is a two part now for both races that had the original -- the khajiit hide even better than before and get a critical bonus all the time, the bosmer see hidden things better (which is new) and move faster after a roll-dodge.


We are ONLY talking about the one part of the bosmer passive, where the ability to hide better was replaced with a useless ability to see hidden things; because we don't care about the rest. The rest is fine.

I know that... the person I was replying to made it seem like we were dumb to ask for stealth back because we got roll dodge boost. Why can’t we have both our current stealth passive AND the roll dodge passive?

Just bolstering your argument, we're in full agreement. Or near enough for government work.

My bad bro, the internet format gets me primed for opposition lol

All good

StarOfElyon

You can still hide and snipe.

Everstorm

StarOfElyon wrote: »

You can still hide and snipe.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend that there are a ton of players out there who do not care for PvP. I don't give a flying hoot about sniping. I just want my character to keep functioning the way it did when I made her, since the stealth passive was the very reason I picked this race.

Lord_Eomer

OP wants no balance but Bosmer to be an ultimate Race!

@ZOS_Gilliam you did amazing job on racial balances, I hope ZOS will not get under pressure and re-buff races that no longer deserves.

Muskrap

Everstorm wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

You can still hide and snipe.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend that there are a ton of players out there who do not care for PvP. I don't give a flying hoot about sniping. I just want my character to keep functioning the way it did when I made her, since the stealth passive was the very reason I picked this race.

Except the game can not and should never be balanced by non PvP/high level PvE

The uses of stealth is completely useless in high level PvE, and only useful in PvP. Meaning that they needed to balance the stealth mechanic for it.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend how video games can't be balanced for people that aren't doing the end game content

InvictusApollo

I'm really looking forward to playing my Bosmer stamblade and stamwarden in pvp. The speedboost will allow me to quickly escape unfavorable situations even if enemies employ detection potions or skills and then enter stealth mode when being outside their range.
And Bosmer stealth detection is actually also something that I look for with anticipation. Why? Because I will be much safer in stealth mode since I will detect sneaking enemies before they attack me.
As for pve nerf... really? You are whining because you get some more challenge at sneaking? Really? It's already super easy. More challenge = more fun.

BlueRaven

Muskrap wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

You can still hide and snipe.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend that there are a ton of players out there who do not care for PvP. I don't give a flying hoot about sniping. I just want my character to keep functioning the way it did when I made her, since the stealth passive was the very reason I picked this race.

Except the game can not and should never be balanced by non PvP/high level PvE

The uses of stealth is completely useless in high level PvE, and only useful in PvP. Meaning that they needed to balance the stealth mechanic for it.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend how video games can't be balanced for people that aren't doing the end game content

Except the game can not and should never be based around the clear minority of players who do high level pve and PvP. You (falsely) claim it’s not needed in endgame content, so by your argument why should it effect the balancing of races at all!

When is stealth detection used in high end Pve? If not why are we balancing a race around pvp only?

Stealth not used in high end pve? News to me. Beyond mat farming it sounds to me like you are doing Vet AA wrong, maybe you can ask the more experienced trial groups on the forums about the Beni fits of keeping the center group stealthed.

Also if you are farming the imperial city sewers solo and you are not stealthing away from the banner carriers, you should really try it as it saves you a bunch of telvar stones. Pro tip: Telvar stones can be used to purchase high level enchants that’s used for high level PvE and PvP! So keep that stealth button ready!

And as for PvP, well stealth is used all the time. Pro Tip: The areas between Ash and Roe have many narrow choke points that make a prime target for stealthed attackers. If you are trying to get through it safely try using stealth yourself!

Everstorm

Muskrap wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

You can still hide and snipe.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend that there are a ton of players out there who do not care for PvP. I don't give a flying hoot about sniping. I just want my character to keep functioning the way it did when I made her, since the stealth passive was the very reason I picked this race.

Except the game can not and should never be balanced by non PvP/high level PvE

The uses of stealth is completely useless in high level PvE, and only useful in PvP. Meaning that they needed to balance the stealth mechanic for it.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend how video games can't be balanced for people that aren't doing the end game content

Neither better stealth nor better detection has any measurable effect on high end pve or pvp so it is completely irrelevant to your balancing mantra. It does absolutely no harm to your playstyle either way, yet letting the bosmer keep their stealth would make a lot of people happy. And most players do not participate in high end stuff but they are paying just as much or little for the game as you. Keeping them happy and paying will also benefit your prefered playstyle.

StarOfElyon

Everstorm wrote: »

Muskrap wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

You can still hide and snipe.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend that there are a ton of players out there who do not care for PvP. I don't give a flying hoot about sniping. I just want my character to keep functioning the way it did when I made her, since the stealth passive was the very reason I picked this race.

Except the game can not and should never be balanced by non PvP/high level PvE

The uses of stealth is completely useless in high level PvE, and only useful in PvP. Meaning that they needed to balance the stealth mechanic for it.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend how video games can't be balanced for people that aren't doing the end game content

Neither better stealth nor better detection has any measurable effect on high end pve or pvp so it is completely irrelevant to your balancing mantra. It does absolutely no harm to your playstyle either way, yet letting the bosmer keep their stealth would make a lot of people happy. And most players do not participate in high end stuff but they are paying just as much or little for the game as you. Keeping them happy and paying will also benefit your prefered playstyle.

To say that stealth has no measurable effect on pvp is nonsense. NBs are annoying as crap because of their invisibility and their damage from stealth makes their gank-play possible. Bosmers already have great bow use. They don't even have to put themselves in harms way. I've been killed from poison arrows so many times it's ridiculous, and I never saw who it was that shot me. Were they cloaked? I don't know. I was shot in the back or the side from a long distance while I was distracted. With that kind of ability, adding more stealth ability makes it redundant (in an op way).

Cundu_Ertur

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Muskrap wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

You can still hide and snipe.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend that there are a ton of players out there who do not care for PvP. I don't give a flying hoot about sniping. I just want my character to keep functioning the way it did when I made her, since the stealth passive was the very reason I picked this race.

Except the game can not and should never be balanced by non PvP/high level PvE

The uses of stealth is completely useless in high level PvE, and only useful in PvP. Meaning that they needed to balance the stealth mechanic for it.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend how video games can't be balanced for people that aren't doing the end game content

Neither better stealth nor better detection has any measurable effect on high end pve or pvp so it is completely irrelevant to your balancing mantra. It does absolutely no harm to your playstyle either way, yet letting the bosmer keep their stealth would make a lot of people happy. And most players do not participate in high end stuff but they are paying just as much or little for the game as you. Keeping them happy and paying will also benefit your prefered playstyle.

To say that stealth has no measurable effect on pvp is nonsense. NBs are annoying as crap because of their invisibility and their damage from stealth makes their gank-play possible. Bosmers already have great bow use. They don't even have to put themselves in harms way. I've been killed from poison arrows so many times it's ridiculous, and I never saw who it was that shot me. Were they cloaked? I don't know. I was shot in the back or the side from a long distance while I was distracted. With that kind of ability, adding more stealth ability makes it redundant (in an op way).

Bosmer archers (which is gonna be a lot of them because they get a bonus to learning bows) are going to shoot you from far away because ALL archers have something called 'long shot' which increases the damage done as the distance to the target goes up. The bosmer stealth bonus nerf only affects how close they can get before they're detected.

The damage bonus that khajiit and bosmer used to have from stealth is still gone, so you do get that. But the idea that the stealth bonus is 'op' is garbage. During the past event I died dozens of times to other players, and the one PVP kill I had was because it was someone getting attacked by two other people. I wasn't even in hiding, couldn't hide, because I was getting hit by something that kept me from stealthing.

Cireous

Datthaw wrote: »

I don't think people understand how much of a trolly buff bosmer just got. That movement speed is awesome, and you're an idiot if you want a stealth passive over it.

What if... I... want... both?

Everstorm

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Muskrap wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

You can still hide and snipe.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend that there are a ton of players out there who do not care for PvP. I don't give a flying hoot about sniping. I just want my character to keep functioning the way it did when I made her, since the stealth passive was the very reason I picked this race.

Except the game can not and should never be balanced by non PvP/high level PvE

The uses of stealth is completely useless in high level PvE, and only useful in PvP. Meaning that they needed to balance the stealth mechanic for it.

It's bewildering how some people can't comprehend how video games can't be balanced for people that aren't doing the end game content

Neither better stealth nor better detection has any measurable effect on high end pve or pvp so it is completely irrelevant to your balancing mantra. It does absolutely no harm to your playstyle either way, yet letting the bosmer keep their stealth would make a lot of people happy. And most players do not participate in high end stuff but they are paying just as much or little for the game as you. Keeping them happy and paying will also benefit your prefered playstyle.

To say that stealth has no measurable effect on pvp is nonsense. NBs are annoying as crap because of their invisibility and their damage from stealth makes their gank-play possible. Bosmers already have great bow use.

Snipers already shoot from far away to get the damage bonus from the archery passive so for them those 3m stealth bonus is irrelevant. Bosmer only get a 15% bonus to learning the archery skills, also irrelevant for anything combat related.

Uryel

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

OP wants no balance but Bosmer to be an ultimate Race!

That's bullsh*t. Most of us who want to retain the stealth bonus DO agree with most changes. We just want to retain the reason we made our character, that is, stealth.

Not stealth to be master race is PvP, most of us who want to retain the stealth bonus don't even CARE about PvP. Not to be able to snipe, that we could do with any character. Just so we ca,n sneak about undetected when stealing stuff, when pickpocketing, to evade guards, and pretty much everything a stealthy thief or assassin would do IN PVE.

Also, how would that make Bosmers into the ultimate race, when Khajiits have a MUCH better stealth bonus after the changes ? How is our stamina regeneration better than that of the Redguards ? How is Bosmer the best race for magicka builds ? Yeah, of course, it's not.

Lore-wise, Bosmers areas stealthy as Khajiits. Game-wise, they have had better stealth bonus in every solo game since Morrowind, and if any race should have had recieived a detection bonus, it'st he Khajiits, who used to have the Night Eye.

No one wants the Bosmers to be "master race". The detection bonus is absolutely useless in PvE, marginally useful in PvP, and will break many characters that were made to be stealthy over the almost 5 years the game has been available. All this because someone in the maths team decided that "hey, let's make sure everything is fundamentally different" without even caring about how people actually play the game. As if there was ever a confusion between the Khajiits and the Bosmers.

Uryel

Everstorm wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

To say that stealth has no measurable effect on pvp is nonsense. NBs are annoying as crap because of their invisibility and their damage from stealth makes their gank-play possible. Bosmers already have great bow use.

Snipers already shoot from far away to get the damage bonus from the archery passive so for them those 3m stealth bonus is irrelevant. Bosmer only get a 15% bonus to learning the archery skills, also irrelevant for anything combat related.

So, what does the Nightblade thing has to do with Bosmer racial passive ? Are all Bosmers Nightblade, and all Nightblades Bosmers ? No, right ?

But well, whatever You complain about them Bosmers sniping you ? Tell me, how do you plan on sneaking behind a sniping Bosmer to take them out now that they will see you coming fro ma mile away ? Because THAT ios the ONLY use of that stealth detection bonus. The only one. It has ONE use in PvP and ZERO use in PvE.

On the other hand, you don't complain about Khajiits who will be able to hide even better. An even more well-hidden sniper with ab onus to crit chances, yeah, sure, that can't be annoying at all, tight ?