Khajit becomes the only option for effective stealth gameplay. Broken Bosmer.

Twohothardware

They need to just add the measly 3 meters bonus to Stealth some of you are complaining about to the Legerdemain passive tree so that any race can be built for sneaking/stealing if that's your thing and be done with it. For the majority of players the Stealthy passive has been useless because there's no real sneaking involved in end-game PvE Dungeons, Trials, or even PvP on classes outside of Nightblade.

Xsorus

Bosmer will be better; because at some point you will become unstealthed and 20% bonus speed on dodge is way better

Gilvoth

.

BlueRaven

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

They need to just add the measly 3 meters bonus to Stealth some of you are complaining about to the Legerdemain passive tree so that any race can be built for sneaking/stealing if that's your thing and be done with it. For the majority of players the Stealthy passive has been useless because there's no real sneaking involved in end-game PvE Dungeons, Trials, or even PvP on classes outside of Nightblade.

well said!
Great Idea!

Or they can just let Bosmer keep the Stealth buff. Seems easier that way.

FrancisCrawford

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Tears of nightblades! So precious!

Why are you taking pleasure in the fact that I and many others will have less fun farming, running delves, or doing quests? That's one of the pettiest things I've ever seen in the forums. You sound like a child at a Trump rally.

FrancisCrawford

Twohothardware wrote: »

They need to just add the measly 3 meters bonus to Stealth some of you are complaining about to the Legerdemain passive tree so that any race can be built for sneaking/stealing if that's your thing and be done with it. For the majority of players the Stealthy passive has been useless because there's no real sneaking involved in end-game PvE Dungeons, Trials, or even PvP on classes outside of Nightblade.

That would be great.

FrancisCrawford

Xsorus wrote: »

Bosmer will be better; because at some point you will become unstealthed and 20% bonus speed on dodge is way better

"Better" only if we stop doing the things we use our Bosmers for and do something COMPLETELY different with them that we have no desire to do. It's like taking away somebody's computer and giving them a sledgehammer, and correctly pointing out that the sledgehammer is better for breaking rocks.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

Mintaka5 wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Tears of nightblades! So precious!

Pvp nightblades aren’t crying. Stacking speed buff with the roll dodge they were going to do anyway when equipped with a bow. I don’t think those are tears you’re drinking.

Have you seen the forums explode with Bosmer stamblade whining?

Well this post sounds a lot like a dramatic introduction to waves of tears. Reminiscent of the Murkmire magicka nerfs. We all know nightblades are not crying because they are basically the devs' golden children, but I am preparing millions of tiny tear collector bottles for those precious nightblade tears to come.

Nightblades are ZoS golden child? Topfu**ingkek. You haven't played for a really long time have you?

SignsOfTheTimes

Snipe, snipe cloak cloak cloak fail

Yamenstein

Twohothardware wrote: »

They need to just add the measly 3 meters bonus to Stealth some of you are complaining about to the Legerdemain passive tree so that any race can be built for sneaking/stealing if that's your thing and be done with it. For the majority of players the Stealthy passive has been useless because there's no real sneaking involved in end-game PvE Dungeons, Trials, or even PvP on classes outside of Nightblade.

Nah then they going to complain that khajiits get extra bonus!

Yamenstein

So ZOS should get rid of the Sprint bonus after Dodge rolling and just add the stealth back ? That what all you bosmer lovers want ???

I would prefer the Sprint bonus

Cundu_Ertur

I suspect the speed bonus won't survive the first few days of PTS, and it will have absolutely nothing to do with us, it will be due to it being too much. A 50% boost to speed with no cooldown for bow wielders? Right. And I got a great deal on a bridge for you, too.


Also, the Khajiit (who kept and even improved their stealth bonus) have stealth and something else for their last passive. There's nothing to say that the stealth would be the only thing in that passive, and I understand why it shouldn't be the only thing. However, it should be part of what is there. The thing that we have alongside the mobility buff at the moment is just complete and utter crap. Replace that is all we are saying.

max_only

Twohothardware wrote: »

They need to just add the measly 3 meters bonus to Stealth some of you are complaining about to the Legerdemain passive tree so that any race can be built for sneaking/stealing if that's your thing and be done with it. For the majority of players the Stealthy passive has been useless because there's no real sneaking involved in end-game PvE Dungeons, Trials, or even PvP on classes outside of Nightblade.

If it’s measly then what is the difference if we get it back. Y’all act like we want the 10% damage from stealth back.

No. Stealth detection is useless. That is what Magelight is for. Give us back stealth radius reduction and/or bonus to Attacks from range instead of Attacks from stealth. That would be in keeping with the lore. We all know that the sprint bonus is going to be gutted so I’m not even laying chips on that.

Cundu_Ertur

max_only wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

They need to just add the measly 3 meters bonus to Stealth some of you are complaining about to the Legerdemain passive tree so that any race can be built for sneaking/stealing if that's your thing and be done with it. For the majority of players the Stealthy passive has been useless because there's no real sneaking involved in end-game PvE Dungeons, Trials, or even PvP on classes outside of Nightblade.

If it’s measly then what is the difference if we get it back. Y’all act like we want the 10% damage from stealth back.

No, they're acting like we want to move into their houses, eat all their Wheaties, and steal their spouses.

And adding the passive to something that all races (including the Khajiit) can get to them isn't addressing the issue. Bosmer have "improved archery, stamina, stamina recovery, STEALTH, reduced fall damage, and disease resistance," per the character creation description. It's a core element of the race. We aren't just making this up. It's not like we're saying we want to play Khajiit but not look like cats; rather we want to keep part of the defining characteristic of the race. If you're just chasing a Meta, take the change token and roll up a Redguard. I want what I was supposed to get when I created my character.

Also I have to wonder if they accidentally mixed up Argonian and Bosmer when they divided up the poison and disease resistance.

Elijah_Crow

And every brand new PVE player who comes to the game with the goal of playing a sneaky rogue type character will feel they are loosing out if they don’t play a Khajit. This is the message the character creation screen will tell them with this change. Prepare for an explosion in the litter box.

SodanTok

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

And every brand new PVE player who comes to the game with the goal of playing a sneaky rogue type character will feel they are loosing out if they don’t play a Khajit. This is the message the character creation screen will tell them with this change. Prepare for an explosion in the litter box.

Agree, they should remove roleplay passives completly and put them to some thieves guildd/legendermain skill line.

Finedaible

Bosmer might be a very nice race for Werewolves with these changes since they are the only one with access to poison immunity because Argonians lost their poison immunity along with their healing received. From a lore perspective, it makes sense for the Bosmer to make good Werewolves. Maybe the larger detection radius was put there to keep up that Hunter theme, and give them more alert to Nightblades.

I think Khajiit changes are almost okay. At least they will be more flexible, but the trade-off being no sustain. The only change I want for them is to get that useless 100 health recovery out of there and give it to the 75 stam and mag recovery to help their sustain slightly.

Cundu_Ertur

Finedaible wrote: »

Bosmer might be a very nice race for Werewolves with these changes since they are the only one with access to poison immunity because Argonians lost their poison immunity along with their healing received. From a lore perspective, it makes sense for the Bosmer to make good Werewolves. Maybe the larger detection radius was put there to keep up that Hunter theme, and give them more alert to Nightblades.

I think Khajiit changes are almost okay. At least they will be more flexible, but the trade-off being no sustain. The only change I want for them is to get that useless 100 health recovery out of there and give it to the 75 stam and mag recovery to help their sustain slightly.

Being a werewolf is a violation of the green pact. (Parenthetically, I personally feel that vampirism is, too, but I don't think that's a universal opinion.) For this reason, all Bosmeri werewolves should be hunted down and terminated. With extreme prejudice.

max_only

Y’all = Bosmer will be better for pvp

Me= Show me how detecting enemies is also a pve passive. Pve. The majority of the game. PVE. What other race has a pvp only passive?



Not related:

Finedaible wrote: »

Bosmer might be a very nice race for Werewolves with these changes since they are the only one with access to poison immunity because Argonians lost their poison immunity along with their healing received. From a lore perspective, it makes sense for the Bosmer to make good Werewolves. Maybe the larger detection radius was put there to keep up that Hunter theme, and give them more alert to Nightblades.

I think Khajiit changes are almost okay. At least they will be more flexible, but the trade-off being no sustain. The only change I want for them is to get that useless 100 health recovery out of there and give it to the 75 stam and mag recovery to help their sustain slightly.

Bosmer always had poison status immunity, we were always the best choice for werewolf because it has always canceled out. You can try it on live server today.

BlueRaven

max_only wrote: »

Y’all = Bosmer will be better for pvp

Me= Show me how detecting enemies is also a pve passive. Pve. The majority of the game. PVE. What other race has a pvp only passive?

That is what really bothers me. And it makes me believe the change was driven by PvP.

evoniee

i enjoyed tears of snipe spammers nightblade

dodgehopper_ESO

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I understand and agree with most of the racial changes, with the exception of removing the Bosmer stealth advantages. This should have been about offering more choices, not limiting them.

Stealth gameplay is significant in Elder Scrolls games and particularly ESO with two DLC’s and with the justice system revolving around this type of gameplay. The changes suggest to all new players that if you enjoy this gameplay, then you must be a Khajit.

This is more limiting as previously you would be able to select from Bosmer as well and there were still trade offs.

I think the changes to Bosmer should be reconsidered. Instead of speed boost on dodge, I think being able to move at full speed in stealth (available from Dark Stalker or othe means) would be a much better passive. This maintains the “Hunter” archetype but doesn’t move so far away from being a stealth inclined race.

I genuinely feel the move away from a stealth inclined race will have a huge impact on diversity particularly for the Nightblade class.

Please reconsider this.

I disagree with you. Both the Bosmer and Khajiit lost their stealthy passive. There is no magical stealthy bonus on either now. I would also like to point out that thematically stealth has always been a big part of the Argonian race so personally I'm very happy that finally the Bosmer and Khajiit are not vastly superior to my Argonian Nightblade (about time). I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Bosmer actually have some pretty neat things, one of which is a resistance to poison which frankly the Argonian should have as well (Argonians are highly poison and disease resistant pretty much always).

BlueRaven

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I disagree with you. Both the Bosmer and Khajiit lost their stealthy passive. There is no magical stealthy bonus on either now.

You may need to re-read the racials. I believe kahjits stealth ability actually got a buff, not eliminated.

BlueRaven

evoniee wrote: »

i enjoyed tears of snipe spammers nightblade

You do realize they are not going away, right? Instead of them being Bosmer or kahjit they will just all be kahjits now, and with better stealth.

Enjoy your time in Cyrodil!!!!

Temeraire507

I just wanted to say that discussion is not held on a really great basis.

Some of you might have to look deeper into some of the games mechanics.

I do believe that stealth detection is rather given to bosmer as an excuse for the loss of the stealth passive and to keep the hunter theme.

In actual PvP you're better off throwing AoEs around you or popping potions than actually using this passive.

I do also believe that this is not hurting stamina nightblade gankers (Yes, not all of them are gankers imo) in PvP at all even if they are bosmer. The passive was only useful in close proximity to enemies and so is the one of the khajiit. No gankers sneak up to their target and strike with a melee opener. If they go melee they use cloak for the crit opener and this passive does not help them if they are invisible anyway. Yes sneaking can be useful if you are going to stealth after winning a fight right before enemy reinforcements arrive or if you try to hide inside an enemies keep but often you won't need that passive. You are more likely to be found by a player throwing AoEs than by a player running straight into your face.

Apart from that I encourage you to wait for the PTS to go online after the patch on monday and test the changes there. Then you can take your arguments to the forums and show how bad this is.

I do not say that stealth detection is great, I do believe that it is utterly useless. I do like stealthy gameplay. But I do believe that many people are making this change way worse than it actually is.

idk

There are already other means to move at full speed while in stealth and Zos does not let them stack. So it would be the only race passive where a player could not get the benefit of another passive or 5 pc set bonus.

That alone would be the reason Zos would not use the idea presented in the OP

Xsorus

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Bosmer will be better; because at some point you will become unstealthed and 20% bonus speed on dodge is way better

"Better" only if we stop doing the things we use our Bosmers for and do something COMPLETELY different with them that we have no desire to do. It's like taking away somebody's computer and giving them a sledgehammer, and correctly pointing out that the sledgehammer is better for breaking rocks.

Well I hate to break it you; you’re going to have to stop what you use for your bosmer for if you want to do anything else in this game.... and at that point when you can’t do that one thing you use that bosmer for and need to get away... that 20% speed bonus is going to be useful.

Ragnaroek93

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Bosmer will be better; because at some point you will become unstealthed and 20% bonus speed on dodge is way better

"Better" only if we stop doing the things we use our Bosmers for and do something COMPLETELY different with them that we have no desire to do. It's like taking away somebody's computer and giving them a sledgehammer, and correctly pointing out that the sledgehammer is better for breaking rocks.

The difference is that your PvE roleplay doesn't require any min maxing, just slot a stealth set (like Night Mother's Embrace) and nothing will change for you. Heck, I've even done the thieves/db questlines on a light armor sorc without troubles. And once you get bored of it and want to do leaderboard content you won't be pissed, because that's currently the point where you would have to racechange. Just because you're not interested in this content (for now) doesn't mean that other players aren't interested as well.

SodanTok

BlueRaven wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Y’all = Bosmer will be better for pvp

Me= Show me how detecting enemies is also a pve passive. Pve. The majority of the game. PVE. What other race has a pvp only passive?

That is what really bothers me. And it makes me believe the change was driven by PvP.

It is roleplay passive. They though of something cheapest and least game changing to put on bosmer to preserve the stealthy lore nature. They cannot put useless sneaking passives on races for free and they cannot balance races when they are putting useless sneaking passives on them because again, sneak is absolutely useless in grand scheme of combat balance. Bosmer were one of the worst races in the game for years because they had to have useless sneak passive.

Welcome to 'this is not skyrim' MMO. Stuff changes. Game changes. Every patch there is new stuff and old stuff getting changed. I know, it is hard for you to accept. This is probably first time in years balancing change actually affected your roleplay life. Get used to it.

And no, I dont have anything against casual players, roleplayers or lore enthusiastic players. But combat balance isnt done for them. Combat balance is done for combat. Sneak is literally disabled in combat in this game. Useful only partly as the way to get into combat by being hidden before starting combat. Anything sneak related doesnt belong to racial passives at all if the aim is to have racial passives combat balanced.

Heimpai

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If you don't see how powerful this new passive is then you shouldn't talk about balance anyways. Having a race which supports mobility builds is a good thing and will enable a lot more builds than this gank stuff. You talk about offering more choices and meanwhile you want to limit the race to the Nb class (like it used to be), that's complete nonsense.

We all know the speed passive will get nerfed leaving bosmers with what? They literally just nerfed mobility so i don’t understand why they thought people would accept this