Make Race Cosmetic

ElliottXO

I've also always been against it but start to agree now somehow. Not really sure.

Pick a cosmetic race, then pick a 'grew up in...' history to get the racial bonus. So a Nord who grew up in Auridon gets the Altmer racials.

Sometimes compromises need to be made. And I think above solution will please more players than it will displease. That being said the forum is probably least representitive to answer this question.

And please don't play the lore card when 5 mudcrabs are stronger than molag bal.

zyk

Arzurag wrote: »

You can´t change human nature, it´s but of our character to strive for the best.

There's nothing esoteric about it. It's a game. Part of the challenge in games is learning the systems and then making intelligent decisions according to them.

To do otherwise would be akin to a hockey player wearing snow shoes instead of skates because he likes them better, regardless of the performance impact.

I understand ESO is a social and general entertainment platform for some players, so this may not apply to everyone, but there is no mystery why gamers prefer to choose optimal races for gameplay purposes.

Weper

I would like "cosmetic only" racials.
Currently if you wanna do veteran trials you have to play with the meta race. Actually that s*cks.
The racials are forcing players to play with a race they don't want to play.
That's why i stopped doing PvE and PvP content. (Actually i did normal trials for the story. And i do sometimes veteran dungeons if there is an event or like that.)
I'm not gonna race change my Nord nightblade cause i like Nords and that's my main character.

So i just decided to play WoW if i want to do PvE content because the racials are not not really affect your DPS (1% difference or like that) in that game.

Joy_Division

mxxo wrote: »

Best idea ever. I don´t see any point in forcing and punishing ppl to play an altmer for example if they dont like altmer. Its a roleplaying game after all.

Who is forcing anyone to play an Altmer?

CipherNine

Joy_Division wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Best idea ever. I don´t see any point in forcing and punishing ppl to play an altmer for example if they dont like altmer. Its a roleplaying game after all.

Who is forcing anyone to play an Altmer?

You are a class representative. Don't act like you are not forced to play a certain race if you like to do high end game Trials.

Claudman

I've been heavily against this before, but...
Man, there's got to be a way to do something without skewering every build. This suggestion isn't too bad as it does pool into the archetype stuff.

heavier

Claudman wrote: »

I've been heavily against this before, but...
Man, there's got to be a way to do something without skewering every build. This suggestion isn't too bad as it does pool into the archetype stuff.

speaking
they could give each race a "branch" or "path" to follow that would favor stamina or magicka...the idea of each race being rigidly defined to offer bonuses of 2000 stat or whatever is a bit contrived.

I've pushed for some nuance here before because I don't want to be orc ... but I gotta go fast.

ecru

Turelus wrote: »

Please no.

Cosmetic only races is so bland and honestly the bonuses in ESO whilst good and help power you up are not required.

If people want to play a race because they like it they can, and they'll do fine in all content with that if they're a skilled player.
If people want to be top of leaderboards or make their life easier they choose a race which fits the role.

What. Everyone being the same race is bland. How in the hell is people having the freedom to look however they want "bland"? You think the game is more interesting when every magicka dps is altmer?

Lab3360 wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Please no.

Cosmetic only races is so bland and honestly the bonuses in ESO whilst good and help power you up are not required.

If people want to play a race because they like it they can, and they'll do fine in all content with that if they're a skilled player.
If people want to be top of leaderboards or make their life easier they choose a race which fits the role.

This and it is clear Zos wants to keep some flavor, even if it is light flavor.

Race choices having meaning is a very attractive aspect of the game and a solid part of TES all along. While I expect tweaks to the change put forward, it still permits race choice having meaning but also has less of an impact on those who make these choices totally on cosmetics.

Except that isn't true at all, because this community is such slaves to the meta. You can't get into trials unless your a meta race cause these morons put leaderboard run requirements on everything. Racial passives have done nothing but create a toxic atmosphere.

Have you thought about trying a non meta trials guild? There are lots of them out there and they complete content just as efficiently.

"non meta" guilds aren't clearing vCR+3. even my guild has a few outliers but overall 10/12 people in the raid chose the best race for their class based on stats.

CipherNine

ecru wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Please no.

Cosmetic only races is so bland and honestly the bonuses in ESO whilst good and help power you up are not required.

If people want to play a race because they like it they can, and they'll do fine in all content with that if they're a skilled player.
If people want to be top of leaderboards or make their life easier they choose a race which fits the role.

What. Everyone being the same race is bland. How in the hell is people having the freedom to look however they want "bland"? You think the game is more interesting when every magicka dps is altmer?

People are delusional when it comes to racial passives. They think they are a special snowflake in the pack. But they are no different than everyone else.

Starlock

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Arzurag wrote: »

You can´t change human nature, it´s but of our character to strive for the best.

*rolls eyes* Nope. I strive to have fun. That's the only reason for playing a game of any sort from my POV. I'm totally non-competitive - I actually do not have a competitive bone in my body, or a gene in my DNA. I don't care if you're better at something than I am.

FUN is the point, for me. I get you might be competitive - but I don't really believe it's "human nature".

Some folks forget people like you exist. Thanks for speaking up. We need more reminders around here that no, “the community” is not slaved to “the meta” when good chunks of us play games for fun or for reasons other than competition.

MLGProPlayer

I agree. Part of the fun of playing an MMO is customizing your character's appearance. But if you can't play the race you want, it sucks the fun out of the cosmetic side of the game.

It's the same as gender locked classes in Korean MMOs.

Ertosi

A cosmetic only race? They're called Polymorphs and they're already in the game. Feel free to use them.

Knootewoot

No

Only min/maxers probably complaining.

Facefister

CipherNine wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Best idea ever. I don´t see any point in forcing and punishing ppl to play an altmer for example if they dont like altmer. Its a roleplaying game after all.

Who is forcing anyone to play an Altmer?

You are a class representative. Don't act like you are not forced to play a certain race if you like to do high end game Trials.

I do like 45k dps with my Altmer stamsorc in trials. I know I know its not that much but hey, it was enough for a timed run in vMoL.

CipherNine

Ertosi wrote: »

A cosmetic only race? They're called Polymorphs and they're already in the game. Feel free to use them.

What?...You gotta be kidding... what you just said has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Mr_Walker

Arzurag wrote: »

You can´t change human nature, it´s but of our character to strive for the best.

Sure I do. In important things. My leisure activities... not so much.

Lord_Eomer

No, happy the way they are!

Vecro

The problem is the toxicity that the min-maxers perpetuate...

zyk

Vecro wrote: »

The problem is the toxicity that the min-maxers perpetuate...

What a ridiculous statement. Min maxing just means intelligent character design. There's no correlation between intelligence and toxicity.

I consider myself to be a pretty casual gamer, but I still like to make intelligent choices when I game, so I always select the race with the stats that best suit the role I intend for the character. That's not elitism, that's called playing a game.

Tholian1

I really like the OP idea. I like my Imperial and it will never be a tank no matter how much ZOS mistakenly thinks it should be.

If racial passives don’t matter much, then why are they changing them at all?

Why do Imperials only have passives that enhance tanking? That is not freedom.

MaxJrFTW

Casuals always trying to ruin games for everyone else. I hope they don't make this mistake. Homogenization ruined World of Warcraft, a game that used to have 12m subs and will probably be dead within two years. Just keep that in mind.

mxxo

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Casuals always trying to ruin games for everyone else. I hope they don't make this mistake. Homogenization ruined World of Warcraft, a game that used to have 12m subs and will probably be dead within two years. Just keep that in mind.

Inhomogenity is also able to ruin a game.

There are other ways to make chars even more different than with racial passives.

CipherNine

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Casuals always trying to ruin games for everyone else. I hope they don't make this mistake. Homogenization ruined World of Warcraft, a game that used to have 12m subs and will probably be dead within two years. Just keep that in mind.

lol it would not ruin the game in the least. What is it with you people and your entire enjoyment of the game revolving around racial passives? You must not enjoy the game that much if they matter so much. The racial passives have never made any sense anyway.

When you lock a race down to the 1 set of passives. You are saying every person of that certain race is the same. Which is just idiotic especially in the Elder Scrolls world. I'm sick of hearing the Lore card thrown around in defense of passives. That makes even less sense.

If you want to throw around the Lore card well then racial passives should be a choice we make to fit whatever role we want to play. The current passives do not fit the lore whatsoever. Seeing as how the greatest mage of the 1st era, Shalidor. Is a NORD! Yet Nords have no magicka passives. Yet there is tons of Nord mages in their mages guild.

If your reasons for having racial passives is for lore reasons. Then nords should have no mages guild or any mages. same with every other race that dont have passives for magicka.

Lore is a stupid defense for keeping Racial passives. It's a baseless argument.

Vecro

zyk wrote: »

Vecro wrote: »

The problem is the toxicity that the min-maxers perpetuate...

What a ridiculous statement. Min maxing just means intelligent character design. There's no correlation between intelligence and toxicity.

I consider myself to be a pretty casual gamer, but I still like to make intelligent choices when I game, so I always select the race with the stats that best suit the role I intend for the character. That's not elitism, that's called playing a game.

You can make intelligent choices without being a mindless sheep. The toxicity comes from min-maxers pushing and pressuring everyone else. The Devs obviously agree thus the direction they are currently taking.

Olith

mxxo wrote: »

Best idea ever. I don´t see any point in forcing and punishing ppl to play an altmer for example if they dont like altmer. Its a roleplaying game after all.

This comment perplexes me. It's a role playing game, and that's why races should be cosmetic only, to the point that Argonians are renamed to Alchemists (essentially turning race into another class/profession)? I don't get the logic behind that.

mxxo

Olith wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Best idea ever. I don´t see any point in forcing and punishing ppl to play an altmer for example if they dont like altmer. Its a roleplaying game after all.

This comment perplexes me. It's a role playing game, and that's why races should be cosmetic only, to the point that Argonians are renamed to Alchemists (essentially turning race into another class/profession)? I don't get the logic behind that.

You are roleplaying a Char, that isn´t bound to passives. There is a good definition of roleplay on urban dictionary if that helps.

Olith

CipherNine wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Best idea ever. I don´t see any point in forcing and punishing ppl to play an altmer for example if they dont like altmer. Its a roleplaying game after all.

People are delusional when it comes to racial passives. They think they are a special snowflake in the pack. But they are no different than everyone else.

Yeah but you know people have this delusion that having racial passives makes them playing a certain race a special unique snowflake. It doesn't. You are not different than the other million other players of the same race.

Here we go again... The guys that can't stop complaining and whining all over the forum about how bad race passives affect their playing are calling us role playing casuals "snowflakes". Because their constant moaning about not being able to play endgame competitive content with a Bosmer tank (for the looks) isn't snowflake at all.

Stop this ridiculous "snowflake" BS.

Panchaea

The arguments against races being a cosmetic and personal choice that rely on the notion that things will become bland and homogenised are just as problematic as the arguments for racial passives on the basis of lore. Hell, half this game is already homogenised. How many times do you see a lightning or frost staff prevail over a fire staff for magicka DPS? CP spreads are almost identical for most builds depending on the attribute.

I don't see how pigeonholing races into specific roles (which is even worse with the proposed changes) makes anything more diverse or less homogeneous than allowing people to play whichever race they wish without getting gimped for making that choice. It's actually incredibly boring to see Altmer and Dunmer magicka users over and over again, just as it is boring to see Redguard stamina users over and over again. Is it really diversification if one out of three "magicka" races has the better selection of passives?

Homogeneity Argument: This wouldn't have even been a thing if we started with a custom birthsign or subclass system when the game came out. Some people don't want to play Redguards, and some don't want to play Altmer. It's simple as that. Other MMOs aren't as rigid. In SWTOR, a human Sith was as capable as a Twi'lek Sith. WoW isn't as liberating but doesn't come close to the rigidity ESO's about to receive.

Making race choices cosmetic doesn't casualise or "dumb down" the game in any form. It doesn't take a lot of lateral thinking to take one look at the passives and say "this is perfect for my build". You're literally dumping points into the passives. It's not like mastering a skill rotation. Further, it doesn't, in any way or form, foster a good player to player culture when harder content encourages players to limit their race choices. If I play an Imperial magicka user, and I want to get into high end content, why should I ditch my personal preference in the event that it's demanded of me? Choosing your race doesn't take a lot of intelligence when all you're doing is clicking your mouse and confirming the choice.

Lore Argument: As flimsy as people saying dragons shouldn't be in the mid Second Era. You have plenty of examples of races mastering areas they normally would not. Shalidor, Emeric, hell, an ORSIMER Psijic on Artaeum. Even the title of Imperial Battlemage, which is considered one of the most esteemed positions of magic in the Empire, belongs to an Imperial. Even in TES V, the racial traits did not bog down your ability to play. Sure, an Altmer had 50 extra Magicka points. Say hello to my enchanted 100% Magicka cost reduction on my Nord. Gear made the difference.

There's no valid argument for this anymore, especially when these new racial changes do nothing to fix any inherent problems with gameplay balance. If you're going to determine how someone performs based on an aesthetic choice, then we shouldn't even discuss how to fix class balance.

zyk

Vecro wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Vecro wrote: »

The problem is the toxicity that the min-maxers perpetuate...

What a ridiculous statement. Min maxing just means intelligent character design. There's no correlation between intelligence and toxicity.

I consider myself to be a pretty casual gamer, but I still like to make intelligent choices when I game, so I always select the race with the stats that best suit the role I intend for the character. That's not elitism, that's called playing a game.

You can make intelligent choices without being a mindless sheep. The toxicity comes from min-maxers pushing and pressuring everyone else. The Devs obviously agree thus the direction they are currently taking.

What you describe is impossible. Min-maxers, people who make optimal builds, are incapable of forcing others to use them.

It is not toxic for raids that have requirements. That is their prerogative. If you don't like their rules, then find a group with rules you can agree to or form your own.

The move by the devs shows that they want to make race less relevant, but that will not change that some raids will still have requirements.

MaxJrFTW

CipherNine wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Casuals always trying to ruin games for everyone else. I hope they don't make this mistake. Homogenization ruined World of Warcraft, a game that used to have 12m subs and will probably be dead within two years. Just keep that in mind.

lol it would not ruin the game in the least. What is it with you people and your entire enjoyment of the game revolving around racial passives? You must not enjoy the game that much if they matter so much. The racial passives have never made any sense anyway.

When you lock a race down to the 1 set of passives. You are saying every person of that certain race is the same. Which is just idiotic especially in the Elder Scrolls world. I'm sick of hearing the Lore card thrown around in defense of passives. That makes even less sense.

If you want to throw around the Lore card well then racial passives should be a choice we make to fit whatever role we want to play. The current passives do not fit the lore whatsoever. Seeing as how the greatest mage of the 1st era, Shalidor. Is a NORD! Yet Nords have no magicka passives. Yet there is tons of Nord mages in their mages guild.

If your reasons for having racial passives is for lore reasons. Then nords should have no mages guild or any mages. same with every other race that dont have passives for magicka.

Lore is a stupid defense for keeping Racial passives. It's a baseless argument.

Daggerfall racials - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Races

Morrowind racials - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races

Oblivion racials - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races

Skyrim racials - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Races

ESO racials - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Races

Oh, what's that? Racials have always been a core part of The Elder Scrolls franchise? Choosing a race has always mattered? Who would have thought?

The moment they remove racials, this stops being an elder scrolls game. The moment this stops being an elder scrolls game, they lose the people that are here because they fell in love with The Elder Scrolls franchise for what it is. And they would do so in favor of those who would rid the franchise of its core elements, for the sake of capricious self entitlement. Casuals will never be happy with a game until the company developing it bends over and satisfies their every whim.