Where are the dragons? I see Wyrvens.

Varana

"Wyvern" is an English-language heraldic term for a dragon with two legs and wings. Considering it something different from a dragon, or a "species", is modern fantasy, not folklore.

Aenthel wrote: »

In the traditional western mythology, Dragons have 6 limbs (4 legs 2 wings), Wyverns have 4 (2 legs 2 wings), wingless, long ones are chinese dragons, and the sea-dwelling dragons are of nordic origin. Drakes also can refer to wingless 4 legged dragons (regular dragon, but wingless. Don't confuse with chinese) and wyrms can refer to sea serpents.

So basically, according to the traditional mythology, they are wyverns, and basically skyrim is about wyvern-born not dragonborn. But TES calls it a dragon so they are dragons. Same thing as referring a tiger/lion as a cat, not wrong, but not right either.

Can you point us to where in "traditional western mythology" the definition of a dragon can be found?

Because traditional depictions and descriptions of dragons really vary wildly across Europe over time. Restricting the use of "dragon" to very specific forms and characteristics is imposing a definition on something that was never that clearly defined.
It's not like lions and cats. There are no clear-cut distinctions.

Also, TES is by no means bound to "traditional western mythology".

Juzz

That’s a wyvern and upgraded wyvern, not an TES dragon 😁

Davor

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

I am not sure what redit is. Tried it but I see there is so many versions of it. Always look different when I click on a link someone posts.

I like my Bethesda or I should say Zenimax forums.

Take care, let's go hunting now.

Yep. I'm hunting levels on new girls, second account. You?

I am trying to get back into my characters I haven't used. Not sure if I want to go all in on Xbox N/A or PC N/A. I lost my "play style" so when I do a mage character I want to be melee, so when I go to melee I miss being a mage LOL.

Davor

Michae wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

No, I am not seriously complaining, just said something. Though some people are seriously defending.

Oh come on, don't back out now. Is that really the only thing you'll aknowledge from my post? It's pointless to write anything in that case. Can you admit that these things are dragons in TES lore because TES lore says so? Just as trolls look different in TES than in tradition?

I am thinking we are thinking differently. Yes I acknowladge that in TES lore they are dragons but if using real life mythology terms they are more wyrvens than draongs. I don't recall ever saying TES Lore can't say that. Just like ESO lore can say 1+1=3, doesn't mean that it is in "real life" or when using "mythology life".

The way I see it, it's like a comic book movie or even books/novels made by Hollywood. How many times does Hollywood change the names/meaning of something and we all know that wasn't the way? A good example would be the last Fantastic Four movie. They got their powers from going to another planet through some transportation system? I guess we can say that is correct for the movie, but in "real comic life/lore" that never happened is not true.

I guess that I was getting at. Does that make sense? As I said, been a bad few days for my depression and don't recall much of what I was thinking in the last few days because of over sleeping and being in a blah state.

Again, I am not saying TES lore is wrong at all, after all it's their lore. Just like in Planet of the apes, the apes are also chimpanzees and orangutans and if the author wanted to call them apes, they would be apes but other people would see them as chimpanzees and orangutans. Does this make sense?

I guess what I am saying is, just because somebody says or calls something, doesn't mean it is. Does it really matter we have been calling the wyverns dragons wrong all this time? No. Just means we were not using the proper terminology. I guess that was my point and I never made that clear. Sorry for that.

Also when I do see them, I think of dragon as well. Thing is, just because we see it that way doesn't mean it's the correct way.

Again, what ever I was feeling at the time of my post, it was thinking wyveren. (dang it I can't even spell that name correctly lol).

Bruccius

Davor wrote: »

Michae wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

No, I am not seriously complaining, just said something. Though some people are seriously defending.

Oh come on, don't back out now. Is that really the only thing you'll aknowledge from my post? It's pointless to write anything in that case. Can you admit that these things are dragons in TES lore because TES lore says so? Just as trolls look different in TES than in tradition?

I am thinking we are thinking differently. Yes I acknowladge that in TES lore they are dragons but if using real life mythology terms they are more wyrvens than draongs. I don't recall ever saying TES Lore can't say that. Just like ESO lore can say 1+1=3, doesn't mean that it is in "real life" or when using "mythology life".

The way I see it, it's like a comic book movie or even books/novels made by Hollywood. How many times does Hollywood change the names/meaning of something and we all know that wasn't the way? A good example would be the last Fantastic Four movie. They got their powers from going to another planet through some transportation system? I guess we can say that is correct for the movie, but in "real comic life/lore" that never happened is not true.

I guess that I was getting at. Does that make sense? As I said, been a bad few days for my depression and don't recall much of what I was thinking in the last few days because of over sleeping and being in a blah state.

Again, I am not saying TES lore is wrong at all, after all it's their lore. Just like in Planet of the apes, the apes are also chimpanzees and orangutans and if the author wanted to call them apes, they would be apes but other people would see them as chimpanzees and orangutans. Does this make sense?

I guess what I am saying is, just because somebody says or calls something, doesn't mean it is. Does it really matter we have been calling the wyverns dragons wrong all this time? No. Just means we were not using the proper terminology. I guess that was my point and I never made that clear. Sorry for that.

Also when I do see them, I think of dragon as well. Thing is, just because we see it that way doesn't mean it's the correct way.

Again, what ever I was feeling at the time of my post, it was thinking wyveren. (dang it I can't even spell that name correctly lol).

Chimps and Orangutans are apes though... a specific breed of apes, perhaps, but apes nonetheless.
Just like how wyverns are Dragons, even in our beautiful European mythology. The only European folks that disagree would be the British, as they decided to seperate the two in the late-medieval period, but the rest? Not so much.

Davor

jircris11 wrote: »

Chimps and Orangutans are apes though... a specific breed of apes, perhaps, but apes nonetheless.
Just like how wyverns are Dragons, even in our beautiful European mythology. The only European folks that disagree would be the British, as they decided to seperate the two in the late-medieval period, but the rest? Not so much.

That is a very good point. What is the proper name for the species? Is it a dragon species or something else.

As for humans I am sure it's not an Ape species but the name eludes me though. So without knowing that name we can say humans are apes then.

Varana

There is no species. "Dragon" is a general term for some large lizard- or snake-like beast, often (but not always) depicted with wings. (Even in European mythology.)

Bethesda/ZOS did not redefine dragons. They did not use an inappropriate name. TES dragons as seen in Skyrim and ESO:Elsweyr are dragons.
In English, that specific form of dragon got its own name. That doesn't make them another "species" or something different altogether. They're still dragons.

Everything else is secondary usage by fantasy authors, be it roleplaying games like DnD or literature, and specific to that particular world.