Where are the dragons? I see Wyrvens.

Michae

Are you seriously complaining about the dragons in TES not being made according to Tolkien standards?

Let me remind you of a few other things:
- Dwarves in TES were a race of elves , were building effing robots and are extinct! Not Tolkien standards and yet no crying here.
- Varieties of elves in general are not to Tolkien standards. There are High, Wood, Dark but also Sea, Snow and Divines know what. And they are in many colors outside the typical fair white race skin. They are yellow, green, blue, and literally white as snow too.
- The moons (two!) are a body of a dead god. Not Tolkien standards and yet no crying here.
- Trolls have three eyes. Not Tolkien standards and yet no crying here.
- Orcs aren't evil. Not Tolkien standards and yet no crying here.
- The Sun is a hole in the sky leading into other realm. Not to any standards and yet no crying here.
- Same with stars.
- The Nirn isn't flat. What's up with that?

And these are just from a top of my head. The Elder Scrolls lore is unique, things don't look like they do in other fantasy fiction or in mythology. And guess what? Things in every mythology differ from eachother. Tha dragon killed by St. George look like a lizard on old depictions, a literal Komodo Dragon. Then there are chineese dragons, also different. There's no guide to fantastical creatures, they could be anything the authors want.

Edit. Changed "Comodo" to "Komodo". I mixed up the antivirus program with the home island of this particular dragon.

Alaztor91

komodo dragons are real tho

Finviuswe

Alaztor91 wrote: »

komodo dragons are real tho

Dragons far larger than that used to exist before they were forced to extinction man forced them to go away

That is a bad thing

Michae

Alaztor91 wrote: »

komodo dragons are real tho

Yes. So why aren't TES dragons looking like them dammit?!

Davor

ZonasArch wrote: »

Welkynar wrote: »

I looked up the definition of "dragon" and it's simply: "a mythical monster like a giant reptile." Another definition is "a mythical animal usually represented as a monstrous winged and scaly serpent or saurian with a crested head and enormous claws."

And then I searched up the definition for "wyvern" and I got "a winged two-legged dragon with a barbed tail."

Your dedication to shutting up OP made me giggle.

Me shut up? Nah.

As for looking up definitions, I have done the same. There are so many definitions we can pick and choose to prove our opinions right or wrong so I never posted any. After all, some definitions I read are dragons must have 4 legs, other Wyverns don't breath fire.

So in the end they are not Wyverns but not also dragons.

Michae wrote: »

Are you seriously complaining about the dragons in TES not being made according to Tolkien standards?

No, I am not seriously complaining, just said something. Though some people are seriously defending.

HappyLittleTree

If in the elder scrolls world they are called dragon they are dragons. They could easily called argonians lizardmen but didn't, they could have named the Khajiit catman but they didn't let them call them however they like. Also wyvern are a kind of dragon so they are still dragons

karekiz

I agree with all the statements above me

ZonasArch

Davor wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Welkynar wrote: »

I looked up the definition of "dragon" and it's simply: "a mythical monster like a giant reptile." Another definition is "a mythical animal usually represented as a monstrous winged and scaly serpent or saurian with a crested head and enormous claws."

And then I searched up the definition for "wyvern" and I got "a winged two-legged dragon with a barbed tail."

Your dedication to shutting up OP made me giggle.

Me shut up? Nah.

As for looking up definitions, I have done the same. There are so many definitions we can pick and choose to prove our opinions right or wrong so I never posted any. After all, some definitions I read are dragons must have 4 legs, other Wyverns don't breath fire.

So in the end they are not Wyverns but not also dragons.

Michae wrote: »

Are you seriously complaining about the dragons in TES not being made according to Tolkien standards?

No, I am not seriously complaining, just said something. Though some people are seriously defending.

You missed the point entirely. The point isn't what you think are dragons or what anyone else does, the point is that zenimax and Bethesda said they are dragons, therefore they are dragons. That's the only point. And, and... Using your own words, "there are so many definitions", so they chose theirs and it is what it is. You didn't see wyverns, you saw dragons. That's indisputable according to your own arguments.
Shush now.

SirAndy

Davor wrote: »

Where are the dragons? All I see are Wyrvens. Are dragons not suppose to have 4 appendages, two legs and two arms? Will that be the surprise, the final boss will be an actual dragon, or all we every have are Wyrvens? Just curious.

You do realize that none of this is real, yes? Just curious ...

Nighn_9

Game of thrones logic..

Davor

SirAndy wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Where are the dragons? All I see are Wyrvens. Are dragons not suppose to have 4 appendages, two legs and two arms? Will that be the surprise, the final boss will be an actual dragon, or all we every have are Wyrvens? Just curious.

You do realize that none of this is real, yes? Just curious ...

What is not real? That is your answer to prove me wrong? If you want to prove me wrong, at least back it up with facts like one or two other people have. Just because it's not real doesn't mean it's correct. So your point is?

Quaesivi

TES dragons, sadly suffer the same issue with GoT dragons, being that they are not the "traditional" true dragons but more of a subspecies as Wyverns, in these cases, one being too overgrown.

In the traditional western mythology, Dragons have 6 limbs (4 legs 2 wings), Wyverns have 4 (2 legs 2 wings), wingless, long ones are chinese dragons, and the sea-dwelling dragons are of nordic origin. Drakes also can refer to wingless 4 legged dragons (regular dragon, but wingless. Don't confuse with chinese) and wyrms can refer to sea serpents.

So basically, according to the traditional mythology, they are wyverns, and basically skyrim is about wyvern-born not dragonborn. But TES calls it a dragon so they are dragons. Same thing as referring a tiger/lion as a cat, not wrong, but not right either.

SirAndy

Davor wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Where are the dragons? All I see are Wyrvens. Are dragons not suppose to have 4 appendages, two legs and two arms? Will that be the surprise, the final boss will be an actual dragon, or all we every have are Wyrvens? Just curious.

You do realize that none of this is real, yes? Just curious ...

What is not real? That is your answer to prove me wrong? If you want to prove me wrong, at least back it up with facts like one or two other people have. Just because it's not real doesn't mean it's correct. So your point is?

You clearly don't understand how lore is created.

So sorry, but you'll have to figure that one out yourself, no spoon feeding from me today ...

Zacuel

It's obviously a very big deal guys.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

I think wyverns are considered lesser dragons, but are still a species of dragons.

Davor

SirAndy wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Where are the dragons? All I see are Wyrvens. Are dragons not suppose to have 4 appendages, two legs and two arms? Will that be the surprise, the final boss will be an actual dragon, or all we every have are Wyrvens? Just curious.

You do realize that none of this is real, yes? Just curious ...

What is not real? That is your answer to prove me wrong? If you want to prove me wrong, at least back it up with facts like one or two other people have. Just because it's not real doesn't mean it's correct. So your point is?

You clearly don't understand how lore is created.

So sorry, but you'll have to figure that one out yourself, no spoon feeding from me today ...

So that is your rebutal? I don't understand how lore is created? Again, your point? Stop trolling or actually come with reasons why I am wrong.

Mr_Walker

I like turtles.

Sylvermynx

Davor wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Where are the dragons? All I see are Wyrvens. Are dragons not suppose to have 4 appendages, two legs and two arms? Will that be the surprise, the final boss will be an actual dragon, or all we every have are Wyrvens? Just curious.

You do realize that none of this is real, yes? Just curious ...

What is not real? That is your answer to prove me wrong? If you want to prove me wrong, at least back it up with facts like one or two other people have. Just because it's not real doesn't mean it's correct. So your point is?

Dav.... son.... none of it's real, so there aren't any facts. You can't be proved wrong, as there ARE no facts. So of course, you can't prove you're right either.

You probably need to pick your battles, y'know? This one's a waste of words....

Davor wrote: »

So that is your rebutal? I don't understand how lore is created? Again, your point? Stop trolling or actually come with reasons why I am wrong.

Now that I can answer. Lore is created by the author(s) of the tale/game. So lore in this case is what Bethesda published beginning with Arena. Apparently, Beth has given approval to ESO for the lore included with the game.

Davor

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Where are the dragons? All I see are Wyrvens. Are dragons not suppose to have 4 appendages, two legs and two arms? Will that be the surprise, the final boss will be an actual dragon, or all we every have are Wyrvens? Just curious.

You do realize that none of this is real, yes? Just curious ...

What is not real? That is your answer to prove me wrong? If you want to prove me wrong, at least back it up with facts like one or two other people have. Just because it's not real doesn't mean it's correct. So your point is?

Dav.... son.... none of it's real, so there aren't any facts. You can't be proved wrong, as there ARE no facts. So of course, you can't prove you're right either.

You probably need to pick your battles, y'know? This one's a waste of words....

Davor wrote: »

So that is your rebutal? I don't understand how lore is created? Again, your point? Stop trolling or actually come with reasons why I am wrong.

Now that I can answer. Lore is created by the author(s) of the tale/game. So lore in this case is what Bethesda published beginning with Arena. Apparently, Beth has given approval to ESO for the lore included with the game.

. Now this is a proper debate/argument. Thank you for that. I am not going to argue against this because you are correct. All my point is, calling something what ever, doesn't mean it's so. While it is so in what ever world it's in is true, but in actual terms it can still be wrong. That is all I ment and some people still kept trying to say I am wrong. I even stopped replying until some people wouldn't let the thread die and tried to prove me wrong without actual proof. That is where I called the person out. Want to shame me, then better make sure you have the evidence to back it up.

I don't need to be proven correct. I just find it funny how so many people say I am wrong but can't back it up like you and two other people did. Such a shame. I expected better from people on these forums here. I thought we were better than just saying "you are wrong and I will shame you for that" but not give proof for doing so.

Sadly, because of my depression and super powers of a gold fish, I can't even remember what the point I was trying to make now. Gah. Time to go and play some ESO.

ascan7

Michae wrote: »

Are you seriously complaining about the dragons in TES not being made according to Tolkien standards?

Please tell me where Tolkien said that dragons must have 6 limbs.

Lot of ignorance regarding dragons. There is a medieval painting of a dragon:

You see? Only 4 limbs. So i guess that Saint George actually killed a wyvern and not a dragon? Go and tell him.

The whole "dragons must have 6 limbs" started with D&D. It has nothing to do with original mythology. It's a popular trope, i personally like it a lot and i like my dragons with 6 limbs, but if an author choose to not follow this trope, he's free to do so, he's not wrong.

Sylvermynx

Davor wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Where are the dragons? All I see are Wyrvens. Are dragons not suppose to have 4 appendages, two legs and two arms? Will that be the surprise, the final boss will be an actual dragon, or all we every have are Wyrvens? Just curious.

You do realize that none of this is real, yes? Just curious ...

What is not real? That is your answer to prove me wrong? If you want to prove me wrong, at least back it up with facts like one or two other people have. Just because it's not real doesn't mean it's correct. So your point is?

You clearly don't understand how lore is created.

So sorry, but you'll have to figure that one out yourself, no spoon feeding from me today ...

So that is your rebutal? I don't understand how lore is created? Again, your point? Stop trolling or actually come with reasons why I am wrong.

Davor wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Where are the dragons? All I see are Wyrvens. Are dragons not suppose to have 4 appendages, two legs and two arms? Will that be the surprise, the final boss will be an actual dragon, or all we every have are Wyrvens? Just curious.

You do realize that none of this is real, yes? Just curious ...

What is not real? That is your answer to prove me wrong? If you want to prove me wrong, at least back it up with facts like one or two other people have. Just because it's not real doesn't mean it's correct. So your point is?

Dav.... son.... none of it's real, so there aren't any facts. You can't be proved wrong, as there ARE no facts. So of course, you can't prove you're right either.

You probably need to pick your battles, y'know? This one's a waste of words....

Davor wrote: »

So that is your rebutal? I don't understand how lore is created? Again, your point? Stop trolling or actually come with reasons why I am wrong.

Now that I can answer. Lore is created by the author(s) of the tale/game. So lore in this case is what Bethesda published beginning with Arena. Apparently, Beth has given approval to ESO for the lore included with the game.

. Now this is a proper debate/argument. Thank you for that. I am not going to argue against this because you are correct. All my point is, calling something what ever, doesn't mean it's so. While it is so in what ever world it's in is true, but in actual terms it can still be wrong. That is all I ment and some people still kept trying to say I am wrong. I even stopped replying until some people wouldn't let the thread die and tried to prove me wrong without actual proof. That is where I called the person out. Want to shame me, then better make sure you have the evidence to back it up.

I don't need to be proven correct. I just find it funny how so many people say I am wrong but can't back it up like you and two other people did. Such a shame. I expected better from people on these forums here. I thought we were better than just saying "you are wrong and I will shame you for that" but not give proof for doing so.

Sadly, because of my depression and super powers of a gold fish, I can't even remember what the point I was trying to make now. Gah. Time to go and play some ESO.

Y'know, Dav.... I think you might actually be happier on the reddit forum. People there are - more.... laid back.... forgiving even.

I spend time here because I just don't like the reddit format. But - there are times when I've considered just managing what I don't like about reddit, instead of having a blood pressure event over stuff here.

Think about it, 'k? (And.... there's probably a really great reddit for your depression issues too.... )

Davor

I am not sure what redit is. Tried it but I see there is so many versions of it. Always look different when I click on a link someone posts.

I like my Bethesda or I should say Zenimax forums.

Take care, let's go hunting now.

Sylvermynx

Davor wrote: »

I am not sure what redit is. Tried it but I see there is so many versions of it. Always look different when I click on a link someone posts.

I like my Bethesda or I should say Zenimax forums.

Take care, let's go hunting now.

Yep. I'm hunting levels on new girls, second account. You?

max_only

Mr_Walker wrote: »

I like turtles.

Haj Mota are the cutest dragons/kaiju in this game

Thalmor-Nordmaster

These are pick pocketing thief Khajiit-A-Dragons. They come pre installed with a bounty and dine on thieves guild fences and stolen sheep.

Thevampirenight

There is many kinds of Dragons they could have used when they did Skyrim. When they did Skyrim they based their culture and homeland on Norse/Norwegian Design. So the reason why the look like Wyrverns might exactly be for that reason. They used the Norse/Norwegian Dragon archtype instead of the European Archtype or the Oriental Archtypes as seen in d&d. So the reason why they look like Wyrverns is because they basically used real life Norwegian/Norse mythology for the Nords and Since the Dragons were a main focus in Skyrim they made them look like Norwegian/Norse Dragons. Main Difference is these dragons don't have kids, so to speak but are more sled aspects of Akatosh or Aka-Tusk or whatever. So they are basically the closed thing to Aedra that still exist or live on Tamriel with Alduin being the first to be shed and the most powerful, aka the firstborn of Akatosh who's job is to basically eat and end the world but he abandons his post instead attempting to rule over the world while eating souls in Sovenguarde which is also based on Norse Mythology as well. I think the world eater aspect is also based on Norse Mythology which in fact it is. As shown on the Wikipedia page down below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Níðhöggr this was the dragon Alduin was in a way based on. But instead of eating at roots of the world he basically will swallow the world and instead of the corpses of the dead he eats the souls of the dead. They also Mention the connection or comparison on the Wikipedia page itself.
Hence why they are making them Norse Dragons that will be seen in the game. They are going by the way Skyrim Portrayed them and that includes the Norwegian look.


Skyrim was one of the most popular elder scrolls and it is to this day as well. I think from what I read somewhere because of Game of Thrones, the Nostalgia that Skyrim Brought is what led to it being so successful. I believe this is something they wanted to bring to Eso. But only this time instead of a Snowy environment they are going to the Desert. Skyrim was popular enough the arrow in the knee joke was referenced in Ncis, as well as Skyrim itself a few times. I'm sure other shows have mentioned Skyrim. Skyrim also allowed you to reanimate your dead enemies and later summon different kinds of undead with the dawnguard dlc.


The reason why they are adding Necromancers might also be Nostalgia and because they were the most asked for class. In other elder scrolls games, we could summon undeads and there was an ability to reanimate a dead corpse but i think there might have only be one in Oblivion, but Skyrim allowed more to be done with necromancy. Even if you don't like Eso going more Skyrim with the new content, it is a smart move for them to do it because of how popular it was. I think there is dragons in the desert in game of thrones but I've not watched very much of it. And only have season one and I think season two. Which I have not even bothered to finish. So that could be another factor for why they are adding Dragons to the Desert sands of Elsweyr.

thorwyn

I'm pretty sure Smaug only had four limbs (2 legs, 2 wings) in the Hobbit movie.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

If Wyverns aren't Dragons how come they were in "Dragonology: The Complete Book of Dragons" haha gottem

Michae

Wow, lots of replies.

Aenthel wrote: »

So basically, according to the traditional mythology, they are wyverns, and basically skyrim is about wyvern-born not dragonborn. But TES calls it a dragon so they are dragons. Same thing as referring a tiger/lion as a cat, not wrong, but not right either.

Sure, but since when is TES a traditional mythology? It has robots in it! But I don't want to repeat myself so see my previous post.

Davor wrote: »

No, I am not seriously complaining, just said something. Though some people are seriously defending.

Oh come on, don't back out now. Is that really the only thing you'll aknowledge from my post? It's pointless to write anything in that case. Can you admit that these things are dragons in TES lore because TES lore says so? Just as trolls look different in TES than in tradition?

@ascan7 Hey, that was just an example. I actually agree with you. Tolkien was just an example since we lately got Smaug who was fitting in that template. My point was that whatever Bethesda and Zeni say is dragons it's dragons in their games. And I brought up a point that medieval dragons don't look like dragons in media now, be it 6 limbed or 4 limbed versions.

I know I'm repeating myself, sorry.

jircris11

Davor wrote: »

Where are the dragons? All I see are Wyrvens. Are dragons not suppose to have 4 appendages, two legs and two arms? Will that be the surprise, the final boss will be an actual dragon, or all we every have are Wyrvens? Just curious.

Wyvern is a smaller class of dragon. Dragon is a derm used for large flying fire breathing lizards. So they ARE dragons, western type mostly vs the Eastern type of snake like.