Calls for DK Wings Nerf, Why?

Dojohoda

As a magblade ...

*** wings, they can be worked around; kindly return purge back to my cloak or work in a snare & root removal to cloak, or path, something OR FIX SHADE and stop breaking it!

Mintaka5

I'm sorry all you DK lovers out there, but fighting DKs with great heals and impenetrable health is just boring AF. If I don't take you down to below 50% ever in a fight yet every other player I can, it's a broke build out, and honestly not a very engaging fight. Have fun playing with yourself in PvP.

Sy1ph5

Maybe sorcs wouldn't be so salty about wings ( a class defining skill that needs adjustments,not nerfs, and should absolutely stay) if ZoS hadn't spent the last year and a half essentially removing everything class defining about the sorc.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

NyassaV wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Because the forums are full of Sorc and NB mains who just want to pew pew at range with no repercussions whatsoever.

Once they're done with this campaign to get wings nerfed, sorc mains will go back to trying to get cloak nerfed and NB mains will go back to trying to get every single defense mechanism besides cloak nerfed. They just happened to find a common cause this time.

maybe cuz no one likes having 100% of their damage negated when that class also had the best self healing, CC, and very good single target pressure.

If wing's didn't negate everything I'm sure people would care less but it basically makes fighting a DK a waste of time as a ranged build. Like sorry there is just no damn point, not only can they out-heal you but they will also take little to no damage.

That's really the issue. I am really not here to cry about wings, but as a sorc, I simply avoid them 1v1. It's typically a stalemate. If I get to close, a good DK is going to CC you and never let up until you are out of stam. If I stay far away and range the, most of my tool kit is coming right back at me (my light attacks, CC, and hardest hitting skill in frags). Sure there are damage skills that cant be reflected, but DKs are otherwise very tanky. Curse, FP, and Mages wrath spam is simply not going to kill a competent DK and sorc healing is not great against any class with good consistent pressure.

Cloak is still the most broken skill in PVP, but that is a different debate. That said, i am actually not sure I want it nerfed because catching NBs is one of my favorite hobbies. Thanks to curse, sorcs are good at countering cloak.

CaliMade

NyassaV wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Because the forums are full of Sorc and NB mains who just want to pew pew at range with no repercussions whatsoever.

Once they're done with this campaign to get wings nerfed, sorc mains will go back to trying to get cloak nerfed and NB mains will go back to trying to get every single defense mechanism besides cloak nerfed. They just happened to find a common cause this time.

maybe cuz no one likes having 100% of their damage negated when that class also had the best self healing, CC, and very good single target pressure.

If wing's didn't negate everything I'm sure people would care less but it basically makes fighting a DK a waste of time as a ranged build. Like sorry there is just no damn point, not only can they out-heal you but they will also take little to no damage.

Can confirm there is absolutely no class in this game that gets tta 100% of their damage negated by wings


best self healing LMAO

1 heal debuff boi

Magblade's damage is all projectiles. If you play that style of build then you have Valkyn and Entropy but the damage from Entropy is negligible

Yes they currently have the best self healing. If you think they don't then imagine how everyone else feels (I am not including Shrooms and BoL when I say this since those are burst heals not only used for the user).

1 heal debuff hurts everyone boi

and why are people scared to use concealed weapon?
force pulse is a thing.

Not everything works against everyone. Not everything is supposed to work against everyone.

I do think swallow soul should go through wings.

but ive been on both sides of sorc v dk

and I KNOW sorc shouldn’t be saying jack *** about magdks other than complaining about ratchet talons spam.



dk damage is woefully irrelevant against a good sorc. Sheilds counter Magdk a hell of alot harder than you realize.

And no, Mag dks dont have the best self healing, as I said, 1 heal debuff.

AoE healing is still self healing.
If a templar is alone in a forest and they use BoL do they heal themselves?

templars and sorcs are effected by heal debuffs yeah but they are not nearly as screwed as a dk.

I Play all classes a whole lot, been playing for years and have mained every single class outside of wardens. I fully understand the relationship each class has with each other. every sorc complaining about dk wings are ignorant to there own defenses and any nightblade complaining about wings(partly justified as i said SS shouldn’t be reflectable) are to stubborn to try a melee build.


I ask everyone to just take one second and look at what each class has as their Primary Defensive mechanics

Wings-Counters Range
Streak-counters melee
Cloak-Counters Sustained Damage
Shim Sheild - Counters range
Purify- Counters Dots

Thats what these powerful defensive skills do. they counter playstyles and force you to approach each fight differently.

its beyond me how sorcs dont Cry about templars, My curse getting purified is alot more annoying than wings spam.

Conduit0

CaliMade wrote: »

its beyond me how sorcs dont Cry about templars, My curse getting purified is alot more annoying than wings spam.

Once they get the thing they're currently crying about nerfed they will move onto crying about the next thing they are too lazy to learn to counter.

Priyasekarssk

Aedaryl wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Wings were overperforming at release(reflecting everything for 4 seconds).
The devs re-evaluated them, and made them only reflect 4 projectiles.

The arguments being used today asking for wing nerfs are the same arguments that have been used 4 years ago.
Devs already considered those arguments, and deemed the 4-projectiles nerf sufficient.
You will need some new ones if you want to convince them wings need another nerf.

But that will be problematic, since there is nothing new about wings that has changed in the last 4 years which would warrant a re-evaluation of the ability. So, good luck.

How do you kill a flappy DK on a magsorc ?

Wings are so unbalanced that the ability is banned from all dueling tournement, the place (1v1) where wings is OP vs some matchup.

People are not asking to straight nerf the ability, but people want it to be less a hardcounter in 1v1 and more usefull in 1vX.

For your information. No mage sorc ever signed for dual tournament. Everyone know its a trash.

Priyasekarssk

Edziu wrote: »

biggda76 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@biggda76 @TheYKcid

oh yeah, because light attacks do so much damage you need to heal/shield every light attacks reflected and dk will cc you at 30m+ range from wchich you can spam every your skill and streak away when dk will slowly walk to you

the only think I can agree and would be great to balance is as you @TheYKcid proposed to make wing work only at this 15m+ range so projectiles in melee could work again as this price to be close to melee range

but now what you try defend is that you are able to do all of this even in 40m range...how nonmobile melee class is supposed to deal with you when you can literally spam on them from 40m range while you also have streak to keep gap before this dk use gap close if even have it slotted to use

I mean if you want attack me and just stand while I spam light attacks then it's fine, and you know, you could like literally walk up to me since I don't have any mobility either (mNB)

As for how to deal with being damaged from ranged, ask you know, for example stamplar how go deal with it, so shield or heal. I mean you could even literally sprint wasting stam cause clench wouldn't cc you anyway and as soon as you get close enough to fossilize I dont see a problem

And my problem is mostly mNB so yea, melee ultimate makes me want to go melee so id you like being able to ignore wings in melee as for that idea

so ok, here I understand you as magnb as magnb is in much worse spot than sorc against dk with wing
and so here is great option from @TheYKcid to make wings reflect work only if you are casting prjectiles from longer range tha this melee range/10m/15m as how it could looks to make work your build properly if you are in this melee range eve forced by your own build while having most skills as projectiles even in your own build so not reflect is forcing you to go in melee range but just your build and reflect is just K.O. for someone like you

sorry if I flamed you before or something..but you know...99% people complaing loudly about wings are just magsorcs

What ? NB escapes with shadow image or cloak . Sorc get pulled by chains after 5 streaks and cry and die. Mage NB in worst spot ? Top most DPS in game is is worst spot ? A build with 7-8 spell damage is in worst spot ? A top tier PVP class is in worst spot ? Only class who play with 7 divines in PVP is in worst spot ?
No 1 in many dueling tournaments in 2018 is in worst spot ? And no even signed up for mage sorc in any of the dueling tournaments in second half of 2018. Pathetic noobs.
Please come with your mage sorc and duel me and win atleast in 1 of 100 fights.

Edziu

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

biggda76 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@biggda76 @TheYKcid

oh yeah, because light attacks do so much damage you need to heal/shield every light attacks reflected and dk will cc you at 30m+ range from wchich you can spam every your skill and streak away when dk will slowly walk to you

the only think I can agree and would be great to balance is as you @TheYKcid proposed to make wing work only at this 15m+ range so projectiles in melee could work again as this price to be close to melee range

but now what you try defend is that you are able to do all of this even in 40m range...how nonmobile melee class is supposed to deal with you when you can literally spam on them from 40m range while you also have streak to keep gap before this dk use gap close if even have it slotted to use

I mean if you want attack me and just stand while I spam light attacks then it's fine, and you know, you could like literally walk up to me since I don't have any mobility either (mNB)

As for how to deal with being damaged from ranged, ask you know, for example stamplar how go deal with it, so shield or heal. I mean you could even literally sprint wasting stam cause clench wouldn't cc you anyway and as soon as you get close enough to fossilize I dont see a problem

And my problem is mostly mNB so yea, melee ultimate makes me want to go melee so id you like being able to ignore wings in melee as for that idea

so ok, here I understand you as magnb as magnb is in much worse spot than sorc against dk with wing
and so here is great option from @TheYKcid to make wings reflect work only if you are casting prjectiles from longer range tha this melee range/10m/15m as how it could looks to make work your build properly if you are in this melee range eve forced by your own build while having most skills as projectiles even in your own build so not reflect is forcing you to go in melee range but just your build and reflect is just K.O. for someone like you

sorry if I flamed you before or something..but you know...99% people complaing loudly about wings are just magsorcs

What ? NB escapes with shadow image or cloak . Sorc get pulled by chains after 5 streaks and cry and die. Mage NB in worst spot ? Top most DPS in game is is worst spot ? A build with 7-8 spell damage is in worst spot ? A top tier PVP class is in worst spot ? Only class who play with 7 divines in PVP is in worst spot ?
No 1 in many dueling tournaments in 2018 is in worst spot ? And no even signed up for mage sorc in any of the dueling tournaments in second half of 2018. Pathetic noobs.
Please come with your mage sorc and duel me and win atleast in 1 of 100 fights.

do I was mentiong every class here or only mgnb and magsorc?
magnb is in worse spot in range than sorc as have more projectiles in his skills than magsorc against sayed magdk
so nb use no more cloak and shadow image? if it isnt broken then for what are you using magnb without these tools?
pathetic noobs? sorry but this greatly fit to you as what I was reading wrote by you while I see you probably play mag sorc

sorry but magsorc almost never was on down in pvp, only now it is not in best spot after shields nerf after that long time....
if you say how strong mgnb is in overall then why also magnb are complaining about dk wing where 90% of their damage tools are projectile and also why even much much more sorcs are compaining about dk wing whose have mayve 20% of their damage tools as projectile

for that many posts which I have seen in many threads about dk wings what I see is this as maybe only 5% of complainers are mag nb, rest 95% Im purely sure are magsorcs which have more working in 100% tools than nb which main defense skill - cloak- is easy to break and as I hear really often to this shadow image is just broken/not working as intendeed and here still less magnb are complaining about anything than magsorcs

Ragnaroek93

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

biggda76 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@biggda76 @TheYKcid

oh yeah, because light attacks do so much damage you need to heal/shield every light attacks reflected and dk will cc you at 30m+ range from wchich you can spam every your skill and streak away when dk will slowly walk to you

the only think I can agree and would be great to balance is as you @TheYKcid proposed to make wing work only at this 15m+ range so projectiles in melee could work again as this price to be close to melee range

but now what you try defend is that you are able to do all of this even in 40m range...how nonmobile melee class is supposed to deal with you when you can literally spam on them from 40m range while you also have streak to keep gap before this dk use gap close if even have it slotted to use

I mean if you want attack me and just stand while I spam light attacks then it's fine, and you know, you could like literally walk up to me since I don't have any mobility either (mNB)

As for how to deal with being damaged from ranged, ask you know, for example stamplar how go deal with it, so shield or heal. I mean you could even literally sprint wasting stam cause clench wouldn't cc you anyway and as soon as you get close enough to fossilize I dont see a problem

And my problem is mostly mNB so yea, melee ultimate makes me want to go melee so id you like being able to ignore wings in melee as for that idea

so ok, here I understand you as magnb as magnb is in much worse spot than sorc against dk with wing
and so here is great option from @TheYKcid to make wings reflect work only if you are casting prjectiles from longer range tha this melee range/10m/15m as how it could looks to make work your build properly if you are in this melee range eve forced by your own build while having most skills as projectiles even in your own build so not reflect is forcing you to go in melee range but just your build and reflect is just K.O. for someone like you

sorry if I flamed you before or something..but you know...99% people complaing loudly about wings are just magsorcs

What ? NB escapes with shadow image or cloak . Sorc get pulled by chains after 5 streaks and cry and die. Mage NB in worst spot ? Top most DPS in game is is worst spot ? A build with 7-8 spell damage is in worst spot ? A top tier PVP class is in worst spot ? Only class who play with 7 divines in PVP is in worst spot ?
No 1 in many dueling tournaments in 2018 is in worst spot ? And no even signed up for mage sorc in any of the dueling tournaments in second half of 2018. Pathetic noobs.
Please come with your mage sorc and duel me and win atleast in 1 of 100 fights.

@SubversusReformed just go full divines on your magblade 4Head

Matthros

I can agree with wings being adjusted to stop reflecting within melee range. The worse is when dealing with players up on a keep wall, in a tower, or on a large rock just attacking from range spamming reach, snipe, etc. so wings are useful in these situations to help close the gap since chains has the height issue.

Minalan

A long time ago MagDK damage was meh, and the heals were non-existent. It made sense back then to turn people's damage back against them. Nobody complained about it because... MagDK was bad.

Now that's not the case. It should probably be looked at in some fashion.

I'm not calling for a nerf, but lets take a look at what the skill should and shouldn't reflect back. Maybe it shouldn't reflect magblade spammable?

Xvorg

TheYKcid wrote: »

The only change I'd like to see would be, as you said, for wings to not reflect within a certain minimum range. I even feel 8m would be reasonable—being the range of fossilize. It would ensure that any engagement the DK takes plays to their natural advantages.

Ok, I want defensive rune to not stun at 8 mts, because it's stun does not let me put dmg in melee range and cannot be dodge neither blocked.

Fair enough?

Xvorg

Edziu wrote: »

yes @TheYKcid as I havn't seen many great option to change wings to get more counterplay against them for specific build without nerfing them to the groud your option is the best
as at all wing for dk are supposed to defent from pure range build, ok but at all I know it is very frustrating if you get finally into melee range with this dk your tools still are same, not change while now not dk is punised for being in range with you but you are punished for being in melee range and still have same tools

this is grear option to counter play as dk have no tools to fight in range..so he forces you to fight with him with melee but you cant if still have onlyy range setup...so here is going counter for price - you are going to be ine melee range with dk for getting acces to all your tool while sacrifacing your safe long gap from which he couldnt do anything to you but with reflect also you couldt do anything

so this is great middle as you both are going to meet in melee range and with it you both can finally fight eachother - this sounds as great balance option to something not balanced the best - tbh this dk reflect have great predispositions to be really super balanced in right way while many skills dont have that great options to be balanced for that much at once and that many different builds

sorry, but it is a crap of idea. Don't you consider tanks also need to use wings in PvE? What about duels, will you nerf an entire class just because one skills? No point in slotting wings on a duel.

Do you know what happens if a reflected sorc attack hits defensive rune?

Xvorg

NyassaV wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Because the forums are full of Sorc and NB mains who just want to pew pew at range with no repercussions whatsoever.

Once they're done with this campaign to get wings nerfed, sorc mains will go back to trying to get cloak nerfed and NB mains will go back to trying to get every single defense mechanism besides cloak nerfed. They just happened to find a common cause this time.

maybe cuz no one likes having 100% of their damage negated when that class also had the best self healing, CC, and very good single target pressure.

If wing's didn't negate everything I'm sure people would care less but it basically makes fighting a DK a waste of time as a ranged build. Like sorry there is just no damn point, not only can they out-heal you but they will also take little to no damage.

Can confirm there is absolutely no class in this game that gets tta 100% of their damage negated by wings


best self healing LMAO

1 heal debuff boi

Magblade's damage is all projectiles. If you play that style of build then you have Valkyn and Entropy but the damage from Entropy is negligible

c'mon, as a Mageblade when I see the projectile reflected back to me I *** CLOAK!!!

Do you want a counter to wings? Just cloak. 0 dmg and the option to reset the entire fight.

Elusiin

There's calls for a DK wings nerf because it's has a broken mechanic (projectile reflect) that has no counter play. If you're gonna nerf shields for being broken damage mitigation with no counter play, then you should nerf reflective scales for having no counter play (honestly reflect projectiles being more broken as it also damages the attacker helping you dps them down while you're mitigating all their damage).

Xvorg

biggda76 wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

I think I know whats really going on. For a long time DK's were a subpar open world pvp class and aside from a small population of grizzled veterans most DK's were potatoes and practically free kills for everyone. Thanks to a series of much needed buffs DK's have become competitive again so the population of competent DK's is growing, which has lead us to where we are now with people being angry that DK's aren't the guaranteed AP that they once were.

Dude that's so not true, I love playing my sDK and I love it strong but the fact that you can negate all damage, your skill being actually way stronger than sorc's negate ult in what it does (in 1v1 scenario obv) is just ridiculous and shouldn't be a thing

wut?

So what about taking away all the shields in the game including shimmering? What about taking away s/b ulti?

And saying it negates ALL dmg? Are you for real? It negates around 20 skills in a game with more than 100

Xvorg

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

There's calls for a DK wings nerf because it's has a broken mechanic (projectile reflect) that has no counter play. If you're gonna nerf shields for being broken damage mitigation with no counter play, then you should nerf reflective scales for having no counter play (honestly reflect projectiles being more broken as it also damages the attacker helping you dps them down while you're mitigating all their damage).

It does have counterplay. There are at least half of a dozen counterplays to wings available to each class.

There's even a set that does 10% dmg as oblivion dmg if you channel a full heavy lit or resto attack to a class that stacks heal. Want to give them more pain? Pair that set with torugs, infused and an oblivion glyph. More pain? Use skoria

All that dmg on a full channeled attack. If you want even more pain, slot crushing shock and use it in between full HAs. You can even put rune and wrath to make the mDK even more miserable.

And you know what's good about that set up? It works with every single class.

jcm2606

Mintaka5 wrote: »

I'm sorry all you DK lovers out there, but fighting DKs with great heals and impenetrable health is just boring AF. If I don't take you down to below 50% ever in a fight yet every other player I can, it's a broke build out, and honestly not a very engaging fight. Have fun playing with yourself in PvP.

You do realise that all classes can reach that level of tankiness, right? Not just DK's. DK's are innately tanky, but they aren't nearly as tanky as you make them out to be unless they've specifically built for that. If they have, they sacrifice damage, which means they aren't a threat to you. Walk away, ignore them.

The only place these sort of builds are a problem would be the objective-based BG game modes. That isn't so much the tank's fault, rather it is the fault of the game modes for not taking tanky players into account.

If you want something to complain about, complain about stamden. Innately tanky thanks to the myriad of heals, one of the best burst combos in the game, and can build tanky without sacrificing too much damage.

Minalan

Xvorg wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

There's calls for a DK wings nerf because it's has a broken mechanic (projectile reflect) that has no counter play. If you're gonna nerf shields for being broken damage mitigation with no counter play, then you should nerf reflective scales for having no counter play (honestly reflect projectiles being more broken as it also damages the attacker helping you dps them down while you're mitigating all their damage).

It does have counterplay. There are at least half of a dozen counterplays to wings available to each class.

There's even a set that does 10% dmg as oblivion dmg if you channel a full heavy lit or resto attack to a class that stacks heal. Want to give them more pain? Pair that set with torugs, infused and an oblivion glyph. More pain? Use skoria

All that dmg on a full channeled attack. If you want even more pain, slot crushing shock and use it in between full HAs. You can even put rune and wrath to make the mDK even more miserable.

And you know what's good about that set up? It works with every single class.

You're not going to kill a DK with force pulse and lightning/resto heavies. Not with their healing and damage output. If we're being honest then that's not really a counter.

Priyasekarssk

Edziu wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

biggda76 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@biggda76 @TheYKcid

oh yeah, because light attacks do so much damage you need to heal/shield every light attacks reflected and dk will cc you at 30m+ range from wchich you can spam every your skill and streak away when dk will slowly walk to you

the only think I can agree and would be great to balance is as you @TheYKcid proposed to make wing work only at this 15m+ range so projectiles in melee could work again as this price to be close to melee range

but now what you try defend is that you are able to do all of this even in 40m range...how nonmobile melee class is supposed to deal with you when you can literally spam on them from 40m range while you also have streak to keep gap before this dk use gap close if even have it slotted to use

I mean if you want attack me and just stand while I spam light attacks then it's fine, and you know, you could like literally walk up to me since I don't have any mobility either (mNB)

As for how to deal with being damaged from ranged, ask you know, for example stamplar how go deal with it, so shield or heal. I mean you could even literally sprint wasting stam cause clench wouldn't cc you anyway and as soon as you get close enough to fossilize I dont see a problem

And my problem is mostly mNB so yea, melee ultimate makes me want to go melee so id you like being able to ignore wings in melee as for that idea

so ok, here I understand you as magnb as magnb is in much worse spot than sorc against dk with wing
and so here is great option from @TheYKcid to make wings reflect work only if you are casting prjectiles from longer range tha this melee range/10m/15m as how it could looks to make work your build properly if you are in this melee range eve forced by your own build while having most skills as projectiles even in your own build so not reflect is forcing you to go in melee range but just your build and reflect is just K.O. for someone like you

sorry if I flamed you before or something..but you know...99% people complaing loudly about wings are just magsorcs

What ? NB escapes with shadow image or cloak . Sorc get pulled by chains after 5 streaks and cry and die. Mage NB in worst spot ? Top most DPS in game is is worst spot ? A build with 7-8 spell damage is in worst spot ? A top tier PVP class is in worst spot ? Only class who play with 7 divines in PVP is in worst spot ?
No 1 in many dueling tournaments in 2018 is in worst spot ? And no even signed up for mage sorc in any of the dueling tournaments in second half of 2018. Pathetic noobs.
Please come with your mage sorc and duel me and win atleast in 1 of 100 fights.

do I was mentiong every class here or only mgnb and magsorc?
magnb is in worse spot in range than sorc as have more projectiles in his skills than magsorc against sayed magdk
so nb use no more cloak and shadow image? if it isnt broken then for what are you using magnb without these tools?
pathetic noobs? sorry but this greatly fit to you as what I was reading wrote by you while I see you probably play mag sorc

sorry but magsorc almost never was on down in pvp, only now it is not in best spot after shields nerf after that long time....
if you say how strong mgnb is in overall then why also magnb are complaining about dk wing where 90% of their damage tools are projectile and also why even much much more sorcs are compaining about dk wing whose have mayve 20% of their damage tools as projectile

for that many posts which I have seen in many threads about dk wings what I see is this as maybe only 5% of complainers are mag nb, rest 95% Im purely sure are magsorcs which have more working in 100% tools than nb which main defense skill - cloak- is easy to break and as I hear really often to this shadow image is just broken/not working as intendeed and here still less magnb are complaining about anything than magsorcs

Just for your information. Mageblade is no1 in EU dueling tournament last time and DK comes only second. Stamplar third. No mage sorc even signed up in any of the tournaments recent 6 months as far I know. Mageblade can beat DK on high end. Mage Sorc has zero escape utility. Streak I will pull chain. You cannot cc me. Even if try to escape I take flight. I fossilize you ever now and then. Mageblade have many utilities to escape and reset the fight, which mage sorc doesn't. So, question is why mageblade even complaining when mageblade are strong contenders in many tournaments? Can't they L2P.

Priyasekarssk

jcm2606 wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

I'm sorry all you DK lovers out there, but fighting DKs with great heals and impenetrable health is just boring AF. If I don't take you down to below 50% ever in a fight yet every other player I can, it's a broke build out, and honestly not a very engaging fight. Have fun playing with yourself in PvP.

You do realise that all classes can reach that level of tankiness, right? Not just DK's. DK's are innately tanky, but they aren't nearly as tanky as you make them out to be unless they've specifically built for that. If they have, they sacrifice damage, which means they aren't a threat to you. Walk away, ignore them.

The only place these sort of builds are a problem would be the objective-based BG game modes. That isn't so much the tank's fault, rather it is the fault of the game modes for not taking tanky players into account.

If you want something to complain about, complain about stamden. Innately tanky thanks to the myriad of heals, one of the best burst combos in the game, and can build tanky without sacrificing too much damage.

Walk away? I pull chains. No escape. Only death.

biggda76

Xvorg wrote: »

biggda76 wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

I think I know whats really going on. For a long time DK's were a subpar open world pvp class and aside from a small population of grizzled veterans most DK's were potatoes and practically free kills for everyone. Thanks to a series of much needed buffs DK's have become competitive again so the population of competent DK's is growing, which has lead us to where we are now with people being angry that DK's aren't the guaranteed AP that they once were.

Dude that's so not true, I love playing my sDK and I love it strong but the fact that you can negate all damage, your skill being actually way stronger than sorc's negate ult in what it does (in 1v1 scenario obv) is just ridiculous and shouldn't be a thing

wut?

So what about taking away all the shields in the game including shimmering? What about taking away s/b ulti?

And saying it negates ALL dmg? Are you for real? It negates around 20 skills in a game with more than 100

K I meant mnb idk guess it's not clear some my posts got deleted lmoa

Yes wings feel underwhelming in 1vX and op in 1v1 against mnb as mentioned

You don't see people crying about shimmering or s&b ult, yet you see about wings. Hmmmm

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

biggda76 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@biggda76 @TheYKcid

oh yeah, because light attacks do so much damage you need to heal/shield every light attacks reflected and dk will cc you at 30m+ range from wchich you can spam every your skill and streak away when dk will slowly walk to you

the only think I can agree and would be great to balance is as you @TheYKcid proposed to make wing work only at this 15m+ range so projectiles in melee could work again as this price to be close to melee range

but now what you try defend is that you are able to do all of this even in 40m range...how nonmobile melee class is supposed to deal with you when you can literally spam on them from 40m range while you also have streak to keep gap before this dk use gap close if even have it slotted to use

I mean if you want attack me and just stand while I spam light attacks then it's fine, and you know, you could like literally walk up to me since I don't have any mobility either (mNB)

As for how to deal with being damaged from ranged, ask you know, for example stamplar how go deal with it, so shield or heal. I mean you could even literally sprint wasting stam cause clench wouldn't cc you anyway and as soon as you get close enough to fossilize I dont see a problem

And my problem is mostly mNB so yea, melee ultimate makes me want to go melee so id you like being able to ignore wings in melee as for that idea

so ok, here I understand you as magnb as magnb is in much worse spot than sorc against dk with wing
and so here is great option from @TheYKcid to make wings reflect work only if you are casting prjectiles from longer range tha this melee range/10m/15m as how it could looks to make work your build properly if you are in this melee range eve forced by your own build while having most skills as projectiles even in your own build so not reflect is forcing you to go in melee range but just your build and reflect is just K.O. for someone like you

sorry if I flamed you before or something..but you know...99% people complaing loudly about wings are just magsorcs

What ? NB escapes with shadow image or cloak . Sorc get pulled by chains after 5 streaks and cry and die. Mage NB in worst spot ? Top most DPS in game is is worst spot ? A build with 7-8 spell damage is in worst spot ? A top tier PVP class is in worst spot ? Only class who play with 7 divines in PVP is in worst spot ?
No 1 in many dueling tournaments in 2018 is in worst spot ? And no even signed up for mage sorc in any of the dueling tournaments in second half of 2018. Pathetic noobs.
Please come with your mage sorc and duel me and win atleast in 1 of 100 fights.

do I was mentiong every class here or only mgnb and magsorc?
magnb is in worse spot in range than sorc as have more projectiles in his skills than magsorc against sayed magdk
so nb use no more cloak and shadow image? if it isnt broken then for what are you using magnb without these tools?
pathetic noobs? sorry but this greatly fit to you as what I was reading wrote by you while I see you probably play mag sorc

sorry but magsorc almost never was on down in pvp, only now it is not in best spot after shields nerf after that long time....
if you say how strong mgnb is in overall then why also magnb are complaining about dk wing where 90% of their damage tools are projectile and also why even much much more sorcs are compaining about dk wing whose have mayve 20% of their damage tools as projectile

for that many posts which I have seen in many threads about dk wings what I see is this as maybe only 5% of complainers are mag nb, rest 95% Im purely sure are magsorcs which have more working in 100% tools than nb which main defense skill - cloak- is easy to break and as I hear really often to this shadow image is just broken/not working as intendeed and here still less magnb are complaining about anything than magsorcs

Just for your information. Mageblade is no1 in EU dueling tournament last time and DK comes only second. Stamplar third. No mage sorc even signed up in any of the tournaments recent 6 months as far I know. Mageblade can beat DK on high end. Mage Sorc has zero escape utility. Streak I will pull chain. You cannot cc me. Even if try to escape I take flight. I fossilize you ever now and then. Mageblade have many utilities to escape and reset the fight, which mage sorc doesn't. So, question is why mageblade even complaining when mageblade are strong contenders in many tournaments? Can't they L2P.

Allow wings in 1v1 and let's see how the Turney goes

And maybe they are complaining cause can't damage you unless you're a brain dead monkey with little counterplay. Just think why the strongest class in-game :XD: doesn't cry bout shimmer

Koensol

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Because the forums are full of Sorc and NB mains who just want to pew pew at range with no repercussions whatsoever.

Once they're done with this campaign to get wings nerfed, sorc mains will go back to trying to get cloak nerfed and NB mains will go back to trying to get every single defense mechanism besides cloak nerfed. They just happened to find a common cause this time.

maybe cuz no one likes having 100% of their damage negated when that class also had the best self healing, CC, and very good single target pressure.

If wing's didn't negate everything I'm sure people would care less but it basically makes fighting a DK a waste of time as a ranged build. Like sorry there is just no damn point, not only can they out-heal you but they will also take little to no damage.

Same with cloak.
Maybe cuz no one likes having 100% (but, you know, actually 100% cause cloak works with all classes and more abilities, all but AoE as opposed to just a limited subsection of ranged attacks) vs a class that then becomes untargettable, invisible and ignores all dot damage whilst having the best sustain, good damage, and CC equally as good as DKs.

At it again with the same drivel aren't we? Do I need to remind you once more that you cannot keep hammering and pressuring an opponent while being in cloak? Cloak is OP, but it is in no way comparable to wings. Wings allow you to counter a ranged playstyle's damage completely, while being able to freely put pressure on the enemy with no risk of ever being counter attacked.

I wish all the DK knuckleheads would learn to realize this. I'm sure you'd love it if all your dots were reflected at you and people wouls tell you to "just slot inhale bro". Please, just please stop.

Edziu

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

biggda76 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@biggda76 @TheYKcid

oh yeah, because light attacks do so much damage you need to heal/shield every light attacks reflected and dk will cc you at 30m+ range from wchich you can spam every your skill and streak away when dk will slowly walk to you

the only think I can agree and would be great to balance is as you @TheYKcid proposed to make wing work only at this 15m+ range so projectiles in melee could work again as this price to be close to melee range

but now what you try defend is that you are able to do all of this even in 40m range...how nonmobile melee class is supposed to deal with you when you can literally spam on them from 40m range while you also have streak to keep gap before this dk use gap close if even have it slotted to use

I mean if you want attack me and just stand while I spam light attacks then it's fine, and you know, you could like literally walk up to me since I don't have any mobility either (mNB)

As for how to deal with being damaged from ranged, ask you know, for example stamplar how go deal with it, so shield or heal. I mean you could even literally sprint wasting stam cause clench wouldn't cc you anyway and as soon as you get close enough to fossilize I dont see a problem

And my problem is mostly mNB so yea, melee ultimate makes me want to go melee so id you like being able to ignore wings in melee as for that idea

so ok, here I understand you as magnb as magnb is in much worse spot than sorc against dk with wing
and so here is great option from @TheYKcid to make wings reflect work only if you are casting prjectiles from longer range tha this melee range/10m/15m as how it could looks to make work your build properly if you are in this melee range eve forced by your own build while having most skills as projectiles even in your own build so not reflect is forcing you to go in melee range but just your build and reflect is just K.O. for someone like you

sorry if I flamed you before or something..but you know...99% people complaing loudly about wings are just magsorcs

What ? NB escapes with shadow image or cloak . Sorc get pulled by chains after 5 streaks and cry and die. Mage NB in worst spot ? Top most DPS in game is is worst spot ? A build with 7-8 spell damage is in worst spot ? A top tier PVP class is in worst spot ? Only class who play with 7 divines in PVP is in worst spot ?
No 1 in many dueling tournaments in 2018 is in worst spot ? And no even signed up for mage sorc in any of the dueling tournaments in second half of 2018. Pathetic noobs.
Please come with your mage sorc and duel me and win atleast in 1 of 100 fights.

do I was mentiong every class here or only mgnb and magsorc?
magnb is in worse spot in range than sorc as have more projectiles in his skills than magsorc against sayed magdk
so nb use no more cloak and shadow image? if it isnt broken then for what are you using magnb without these tools?
pathetic noobs? sorry but this greatly fit to you as what I was reading wrote by you while I see you probably play mag sorc

sorry but magsorc almost never was on down in pvp, only now it is not in best spot after shields nerf after that long time....
if you say how strong mgnb is in overall then why also magnb are complaining about dk wing where 90% of their damage tools are projectile and also why even much much more sorcs are compaining about dk wing whose have mayve 20% of their damage tools as projectile

for that many posts which I have seen in many threads about dk wings what I see is this as maybe only 5% of complainers are mag nb, rest 95% Im purely sure are magsorcs which have more working in 100% tools than nb which main defense skill - cloak- is easy to break and as I hear really often to this shadow image is just broken/not working as intendeed and here still less magnb are complaining about anything than magsorcs

Just for your information. Mageblade is no1 in EU dueling tournament last time and DK comes only second. Stamplar third. No mage sorc even signed up in any of the tournaments recent 6 months as far I know. Mageblade can beat DK on high end. Mage Sorc has zero escape utility. Streak I will pull chain. You cannot cc me. Even if try to escape I take flight. I fossilize you ever now and then. Mageblade have many utilities to escape and reset the fight, which mage sorc doesn't. So, question is why mageblade even complaining when mageblade are strong contenders in many tournaments? Can't they L2P.

and again and again...pvp balance isn't balanced around just duels, there was good post explaining this

magblade have many utilities to escape and reset fight? all I know from these tools there are just cloak and shadow image used with mind
if you gonna streak on sorc why then dont streak through this dk which is gap closing you? if he is gap closing you then ofc he dont have block up so you will stun him and now you have tim for 2 streaks before he can use any skill and 2 streaks are enough to make gap to not be able use gap closer so here you are now safe and can use 1-2 more streaks for bigger gap and now just slowly run away from him while recovering resources

and magnb as betted at dueals than magdk...well we know as reflect here is banned so magnb can use fully his tools without restrictions and about nonsorc here....as we also know sorc is based on damn pets as cheesy build with broken targeting in this game which is main thing on sorc for duels to have big advantage

and I just remember how was times when other classes wasn't signed for any tourments beecause they in overall was in sick spot so dont make this as escuse mfor sorc now
this is jus endless cycle with balancing and meta - some classes will be on top, some on down and as for pvp I can see this magsorc 1st time since 3 years on down while most classes was much often on that down

you seems to be just magsorc main crying after get 1st bigger nerfs to your main class which was barely touched for over 3 years while in this same time rest classes was nerfed more than once to be on down of everything so please be silent, now you can feel other classes feelings how they was in very bad spots but bad spot of sorc isn't and magdk reflect fault but just overall changes

kypranb14_ESO

Matthros wrote: »

My main is a DK and been enjoying playing it for years. Why all of sudden are multiple posts to nerf wings when they were never an issue and have been nerfed multiple times already? Did a lot of players switch to ranged builds and can’t kill us as easily?

As a Magblade main, I know how it feels for people to constantly call for an easily countered class defining skill to be nerfed.

I can also say that Wings are in a good spot now, and I play at a range. No changes needed.

Xvorg

Minalan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

DanteMR1995 wrote: »

There's calls for a DK wings nerf because it's has a broken mechanic (projectile reflect) that has no counter play. If you're gonna nerf shields for being broken damage mitigation with no counter play, then you should nerf reflective scales for having no counter play (honestly reflect projectiles being more broken as it also damages the attacker helping you dps them down while you're mitigating all their damage).

It does have counterplay. There are at least half of a dozen counterplays to wings available to each class.

There's even a set that does 10% dmg as oblivion dmg if you channel a full heavy lit or resto attack to a class that stacks heal. Want to give them more pain? Pair that set with torugs, infused and an oblivion glyph. More pain? Use skoria

All that dmg on a full channeled attack. If you want even more pain, slot crushing shock and use it in between full HAs. You can even put rune and wrath to make the mDK even more miserable.

And you know what's good about that set up? It works with every single class.

You're not going to kill a DK with force pulse and lightning/resto heavies. Not with their healing and damage output. If we're being honest then that's not really a counter.

But oblivion dmg forces the DK into defensive mode, same as skoria. I use to do it on a mDK without any offensive spell besides shock reach. Curiously I had harder time against healbots and Fury+7th legios stam DKs for obvious reasons.

In fact I'm starting to consider doing it on a sorc, despite I promised not to play after the necro joke.

ak_pvp

Koensol wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Because the forums are full of Sorc and NB mains who just want to pew pew at range with no repercussions whatsoever.

Once they're done with this campaign to get wings nerfed, sorc mains will go back to trying to get cloak nerfed and NB mains will go back to trying to get every single defense mechanism besides cloak nerfed. They just happened to find a common cause this time.

maybe cuz no one likes having 100% of their damage negated when that class also had the best self healing, CC, and very good single target pressure.

If wing's didn't negate everything I'm sure people would care less but it basically makes fighting a DK a waste of time as a ranged build. Like sorry there is just no damn point, not only can they out-heal you but they will also take little to no damage.

Same with cloak.
Maybe cuz no one likes having 100% (but, you know, actually 100% cause cloak works with all classes and more abilities, all but AoE as opposed to just a limited subsection of ranged attacks) vs a class that then becomes untargettable, invisible and ignores all dot damage whilst having the best sustain, good damage, and CC equally as good as DKs.

At it again with the same drivel aren't we? Do I need to remind you once more that you cannot keep hammering and pressuring an opponent while being in cloak? Cloak is OP, but it is in no way comparable to wings. Wings allow you to counter a ranged playstyle's damage completely, while being able to freely put pressure on the enemy with no risk of ever being counter attacked.

I wish all the DK knuckleheads would learn to realize this. I'm sure you'd love it if all your dots were reflected at you and people wouls tell you to "just slot inhale bro". Please, just please stop.

At it again with the same drivel aren't we? Do I need to remind you you cannot reflect all melee attacks, dots, any ranged non projectile attacks, i.e. any beam attacks, any pet attacks, on target attacks like fury/curse, some projectiles like birb which are just excempt, projectiles with AoE components like valkyn. Basically everything from about 7.5 out of 10 classes.
But you can cloak them. And be invisible. And whilst AoEs break cloak you have to first find them, and they go through wings. And whilst the secondary explosions of POTL or curse will pop cloak, you can avoid them entirely, unlike wings.
Need I also mention it gives you a buff to counteroffense with the crit?

I'd trade something like wings which is very strong against a couple of classes for cloak which is very strong against nearly all of them and way more versatile for OW.

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

satanio

No need for nerf, it's almost as good as cloak. On par with streak.

Koensol

ak_pvp wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Because the forums are full of Sorc and NB mains who just want to pew pew at range with no repercussions whatsoever.

Once they're done with this campaign to get wings nerfed, sorc mains will go back to trying to get cloak nerfed and NB mains will go back to trying to get every single defense mechanism besides cloak nerfed. They just happened to find a common cause this time.

maybe cuz no one likes having 100% of their damage negated when that class also had the best self healing, CC, and very good single target pressure.

If wing's didn't negate everything I'm sure people would care less but it basically makes fighting a DK a waste of time as a ranged build. Like sorry there is just no damn point, not only can they out-heal you but they will also take little to no damage.

Same with cloak.
Maybe cuz no one likes having 100% (but, you know, actually 100% cause cloak works with all classes and more abilities, all but AoE as opposed to just a limited subsection of ranged attacks) vs a class that then becomes untargettable, invisible and ignores all dot damage whilst having the best sustain, good damage, and CC equally as good as DKs.

At it again with the same drivel aren't we? Do I need to remind you once more that you cannot keep hammering and pressuring an opponent while being in cloak? Cloak is OP, but it is in no way comparable to wings. Wings allow you to counter a ranged playstyle's damage completely, while being able to freely put pressure on the enemy with no risk of ever being counter attacked.

I wish all the DK knuckleheads would learn to realize this. I'm sure you'd love it if all your dots were reflected at you and people wouls tell you to "just slot inhale bro". Please, just please stop.

At it again with the same drivel aren't we? Do I need to remind you you cannot reflect all melee attacks, dots, any ranged non projectile attacks, i.e. any beam attacks, any pet attacks, on target attacks like fury/curse, some projectiles like birb which are just excempt, projectiles with AoE components like valkyn. Basically everything from about 7.5 out of 10 classes.
But you can cloak them. And be invisible. And whilst AoEs break cloak you have to first find them, and they go through wings. And whilst the secondary explosions of POTL or curse will pop cloak, you can avoid them entirely, unlike wings.
Need I also mention it gives you a buff to counteroffense with the crit?

I'd trade something like wings which is very strong against a couple of classes for cloak which is very strong against nearly all of them and way more versatile for OW.

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

Wow this is such a dejavu... Look, dude. You obviously miss my point. I'm not arguing which is more OP or which is more worth taking. I just wish people would stop comparing wings to cloak or saying "what about cloak" as a counter argument, because they are NOT comparable. They are powerful in different ways. Cloak being broken OP in general by letting the NB always have control and able to escape when losing while at the same time offering unrivaled dot suppresion. Wings being less multipurpose but extremely OP against magblades to the point where a duel is a complete meme. This is not the same thing, if you have any analytical capabilities.

A stamblade with cloak vs magdk duel where both are equal skill can end both ways, even if stamblade is a stronger class. Because having cloak slotted doesnt mean you are 100% immune to all attacks. You will get hit and bursted eventually. A magdk with wings vs magblade will end in a win for the magdk or end in a boring stalemate. Even if the magdk is utter trash he can pull a stalemate because of how ridiculously hard wings counter the destro resto magblade.

Sustain isn't even an issue because the only magicka you will lose is from the offensive skills you cast. You have complete and utter control of the fight, because apart from casting wings you have absolutely nothing to worry about. You will receive absolutely minimal pressure.
- Swallow soul: reflected
- Assassins will: reflected
- Flame reach: reflected
- Cripple: reflected
- Impale: reflected
- Inferno staff (only one worth using on ranged magblade) light attacks: reflected
- Inferno staff heavy attacks: reflected

Only *** thing I can hit is force pulse (because swallow soul turned to ***) and soul harvest. Trust me, that will NEVER kill a magdk with any amount of brain cells. Other options such as sap essence and concealed weapon are complete and utter trash and not a viable slot on a ranged solo build. The only thing you will ever burst someone with on magblade is a good will combo. This is virtually impossible to pull off against a decent magdk.

And just so you know I play multiple classes outside of nb and nothing even comes close to how meme worthy a magblade vs magdk 1v1 is.