TequilaFire wrote: »Honestly if you have snipe on your bar you're basically admitting to yourself that you're pathetic at the game, have no intention to learn a dynamic rotation and enjoy getting tbagged 24/7.
There's no justification to using an ability that is broken atm - a 40m ability that hits like a dizzying swing plus desyncs was pretty much designed with the intention to cater for people born without thumbs.
Note: Never refer to snipe as a 'skill' when you refer to it because there's nothing 'skillful' about using it. So just call it an 'ability.'
Nermind - not worth it.
Yeah it's not worth embarrassing yourself and basically exposing yourself as a zergling.
Go on any decent PvPers stream on Twitch and tell them snipe is balanced please. I'd love to see your opinion be undermined in an instant.
Doesn't surprise me that there's people on the forums who defend snipe and your opinion though. Then again the same people probably justify earthgore and sloads as balanced.
TequilaFire wrote: »Honestly if you have snipe on your bar you're basically admitting to yourself that you're pathetic at the game, have no intention to learn a dynamic rotation and enjoy getting tbagged 24/7.
There's no justification to using an ability that is broken atm - a 40m ability that hits like a dizzying swing plus desyncs was pretty much designed with the intention to cater for people born without thumbs.
Note: Never refer to snipe as a 'skill' when you refer to it because there's nothing 'skillful' about using it. So just call it an 'ability.'
Nermind - not worth it.
Yeah it's not worth embarrassing yourself and basically exposing yourself as a zergling.
Go on any decent PvPers stream on Twitch and tell them snipe is balanced please. I'd love to see your opinion be undermined in an instant.
Doesn't surprise me that there's people on the forums who defend snipe and your opinion though. Then again the same people probably justify earthgore and sloads as balanced.
Seraphayel wrote: »The problem is not Snipe, the problem is the synergy with Cloak and all the other tools you can use to absolutely abuse it.
DedEmbryonicCell19 wrote: »This is why eventually every class is going to be the same ..
Thorstienn wrote: »Everyday!?
Snipe is fine, in fact it's actually a pretty bad spammable. The problem is with cloak COMBINED with snipe. Stealth is ok, you get 1 Shot to win, then you will undoubtedly eat an axe/fireball to the face. Cloaking potentially resets the fight, and at 40m, that's the problem.
That and a stupid bug they can't seem to fix for some reason.
Note it IS the spammable for bow, if you give it an increasing cost like streak, then imagine that on ALL spammables!
I use lethal arrow, but I don't "spam" it. A one second cast time is hardly spam. I use it mosly around keeps to counter range attacts on the seige line. And unless the person is low health already or in all light divines with less than 16k health, they aren't gona die. If you're full health and dying to snipe it's L2P.
They do need to fix the desync though, which is the real issue..proteinexe wrote:No nerf of damage, but an increase cost like you said - just like streak
You mean the streak that a mag sorc can spam 5-6 times at least? Don't tell me they can't because I've played mag sorc and have done it many times.
Bow is the only damn ranged stamina option, of which 2 skills are even useful in pvp.
Let's nerf reach, crushing shock, mages wrath, radient destruction, javlin and every single ranged magicka ability in the same way you propose for bow
TequilaFire wrote: »
Could you stop asking for a nerf to one of my favourite PvE skills, please?
Thank you.
@gamerguy757
Why not just make it hit instantly but the cast time is restricted for 3 seconds.
So if I use it, the ability will immediately deal damage but will be locked out for 3 seconds.
Thats not remotely balanced, it should be: higher risk, higher reward. And the risk by using snipe is nearly 0 und the reward is way to high for this.
The risk using snipe is only 0 if
A, you made a build that has no ranged capability, which is on you, and
B, you are the only enemy capable of attacking the sniper (which is rarely true)
So yes. It is possible to artificially construct a scenario in which the risk of using snipe is 0. But in most practical situations, the safety of range is an illusion.
Most melee builds have no range capability. Stamdk, StamWarden have literally nothing to close the gap to a cloaked sniper. Stamplar may have spear to cc the sniper and try to run to him but mostly the sniper is long gone before he reaches him.
Snipe is just to strong in combination with cloak/stealth.
Of course melee builds have no range capability, thats why they are melee builds. That does not mean snipe is too strong however, that just means you made yourself weak to it.
In other words, don't make a melee build and then complain people attack you from range.
I didnt complain they attack me from range. I did complain about snipe overperforming in combination with cloak.
Ignoring the fact that this still causes health desync it is possible to shoot 2 snipes from stealth without the target known for the huge incoming damage and just cloak away before your target breaks the CC. There is no counterplay for it cause you never know when it will come. And no class can sustain 24/7 Wings or shimmering just to counter a sniper who may or may not hides completly save in stealth charging snipe on you.
I just don't see what the problem is. You can make a melee build capable of wiping zergs in seconds with DB+shalks+execute. Yet when you can not kill a single sniper who shoots you twice and then runs away it makes him overperforming? I mean, really...
Just cause DB + Shalks + Execute can wipe some pugs and is indeed strong doesnt make snipe less overperforming.
Actually yes, yes it does. You are complaining about a peashooter while dropping A-bombs left and right.
IF I CAN NOT KILL IT IT IS OVERPERFORMING is the message you are sending here. All the while you are orbiting a rock at mach 5 kiting multiple enemies to their deaths with ulti dumps. Absolutely no sympathy here.
Oh, you know me ingame or how can you tell i do this?
It was a manner of speaking. In plain speak: In a game where one can orbit a rock at mach 5 kiting multiple enemies to their deaths with ulti dumps, another being able to get away after shooting twice is of no consequence.
I read it like you directly mean you, cause you were constantly saying "you".
Ofc, these stamden bombs are strong and overperforming, same like snipe in combination with cloak.
Only cause other overperforming things in a game exist doesnt make snipe less overperforming. I dont get your arguments here
How exactly is one player being able to get away after shooting twice "overperforming"?
That's my argument.
Where is it written that a ranged attacker MUST always be 100% catchable after he initiates an attack at long range(even if his target has no long range capability to retaliate), or else be considered overperforming?
Facefister wrote: »Hate it or not, Snipe adds to build diversity. Today you remove Snipe, what comes tomorrow?
Facefister wrote: »Hate it or not, Snipe adds to build diversity. Today you remove Snipe, what comes tomorrow?
A better game with more balance??
Snipe isn't a problem at all. I get killed way more often by real players with real skill than by the occasional spammer. 2h are deadlier, specially on DKs, NB is op in general and a lot more so with dual daggers than bow. Much worse problem to balance.
Besides, once you get close to these snipers, they get so desperate, it's hilarious how easy it is to kill them.
snipe is one of the few things that keeps DKs relevant, what with the reflector wings and all.
also, few things are more satisfying than killing those BG campers that snipe from their spawn point with their own arrows. Prove me wrong.
Sure its fun but not everyone has Wings or shimmering shield.
Maybe i am a squishy magblade and getting hit from 8k snipes from a dude hiding in stealth. I couldnt predict its coming cause he was in stealth, i got cc and just ate the 2nd 8k snipe and the snipe wasnt in my LOS and instantly cloacked again making it impossible to find him to fight back.
So, what to do? Ofc, heal up. Healing is weak on magblade, need shields, shields are smal in no cp. He is in stealth and prolly preparing his next snipe. Only thing i can do is also cloak and move away cause he wont show himself until he is ready for some more snipes.....
Pretty balanced, yep.
And not everyone uses snipe too
Safe to say it is balanced.
Thats not remotely balanced, it should be: higher risk, higher reward. And the risk by using snipe is nearly 0 und the reward is way to high for this.
The risk using snipe is only 0 if
A, you made a build that has no ranged capability, which is on you, and
B, you are the only enemy capable of attacking the sniper (which is rarely true)
So yes. It is possible to artificially construct a scenario in which the risk of using snipe is 0. But in most practical situations, the safety of range is an illusion.
Most melee builds have no range capability. Stamdk, StamWarden have literally nothing to close the gap to a cloaked sniper. Stamplar may have spear to cc the sniper and try to run to him but mostly the sniper is long gone before he reaches him.
Snipe is just to strong in combination with cloak/stealth.
Of course melee builds have no range capability, thats why they are melee builds. That does not mean snipe is too strong however, that just means you made yourself weak to it.
In other words, don't make a melee build and then complain people attack you from range.
I didnt complain they attack me from range. I did complain about snipe overperforming in combination with cloak.
Ignoring the fact that this still causes health desync it is possible to shoot 2 snipes from stealth without the target known for the huge incoming damage and just cloak away before your target breaks the CC. There is no counterplay for it cause you never know when it will come. And no class can sustain 24/7 Wings or shimmering just to counter a sniper who may or may not hides completly save in stealth charging snipe on you.
I just don't see what the problem is. You can make a melee build capable of wiping zergs in seconds with DB+shalks+execute. Yet when you can not kill a single sniper who shoots you twice and then runs away it makes him overperforming? I mean, really...
Just cause DB + Shalks + Execute can wipe some pugs and is indeed strong doesnt make snipe less overperforming.
Actually yes, yes it does. You are complaining about a peashooter while dropping A-bombs left and right.
IF I CAN NOT KILL IT IT IS OVERPERFORMING is the message you are sending here. All the while you are orbiting a rock at mach 5 kiting multiple enemies to their deaths with ulti dumps. Absolutely no sympathy here.
Oh, you know me ingame or how can you tell i do this?
It was a manner of speaking. In plain speak: In a game where one can orbit a rock at mach 5 kiting multiple enemies to their deaths with ulti dumps, another being able to get away after shooting twice is of no consequence.
I read it like you directly mean you, cause you were constantly saying "you".
Ofc, these stamden bombs are strong and overperforming, same like snipe in combination with cloak.
Only cause other overperforming things in a game exist doesnt make snipe less overperforming. I dont get your arguments here
How exactly is one player being able to get away after shooting twice "overperforming"?
That's my argument.
Where is it written that a ranged attacker MUST always be 100% catchable after he initiates an attack at long range(even if his target has no long range capability to retaliate), or else be considered overperforming?
A ranged attacker needs to have viable counters that aren't wings.
No one said they have to be catch-able
I use lethal arrow, but I don't "spam" it. A one second cast time is hardly spam. I use it mosly around keeps to counter range attacts on the seige line. And unless the person is low health already or in all light divines with less than 16k health, they aren't gona die. If you're full health and dying to snipe it's L2P.
They do need to fix the desync though, which is the real issue..proteinexe wrote:No nerf of damage, but an increase cost like you said - just like streak
You mean the streak that a mag sorc can spam 5-6 times at least? Don't tell me they can't because I've played mag sorc and have done it many times.
Bow is the only damn ranged stamina option, of which 2 skills are even useful in pvp.
Let's nerf reach, crushing shock, mages wrath, radient destruction, javlin and every single ranged magicka ability in the same way you propose for bow
I'm sorry but that argument isn't valid anymore. Dodge roll is even more dodgy than it was before. On a magicka character you can't afford to dodge enough to negate the damage and when you look at your other defenses against snipe you have to be a magicka DK with wings (which is already a fairly unbalanced skill albeit useful) or a nightblade with cloak. Even as a cloak spamming magblade a few snipes will screw you up if you are already in a fight and you often can't spam cloxak if you are actively engaged already.
Watch this before you say anything else:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ6L4omudnE
I'm sorry but there is no L2P anymore. It's debatable if there was to begin with but now there is no debate you are simply incorrect.
gamerguy757 wrote: »Look I'm not saying to nerf the move, but the spamming on it is a little out of hand. I mean, [edited] that we spam SHIELDS and they are OP, so here we go again with a move that is OP spammable and you defend it? OK here's my proposal.
Snipe
Plant a masterfully aimed arrow into an enemy's vital spot, dealing X Physical Damage. (Nerf initial damage by 15%) Activating this ability within 1.5 seconds increases the cost by 20%.
Focused Aim
Increase damage by up to 15% based on distance to target.
Lethal Arrow
No change
[edited to remove baiting comments]
Facefister wrote: »Hate it or not, Snipe adds to build diversity. Today you remove Snipe, what comes tomorrow?
A better game with more balance??
Snipe isn't a problem at all. I get killed way more often by real players with real skill than by the occasional spammer. 2h are deadlier, specially on DKs, NB is op in general and a lot more so with dual daggers than bow. Much worse problem to balance.
Besides, once you get close to these snipers, they get so desperate, it's hilarious how easy it is to kill them.
You haven't run into a good one. And that's ok because it's rare to find one
Thats not remotely balanced, it should be: higher risk, higher reward. And the risk by using snipe is nearly 0 und the reward is way to high for this.
The risk using snipe is only 0 if
A, you made a build that has no ranged capability, which is on you, and
B, you are the only enemy capable of attacking the sniper (which is rarely true)
So yes. It is possible to artificially construct a scenario in which the risk of using snipe is 0. But in most practical situations, the safety of range is an illusion.
Most melee builds have no range capability. Stamdk, StamWarden have literally nothing to close the gap to a cloaked sniper. Stamplar may have spear to cc the sniper and try to run to him but mostly the sniper is long gone before he reaches him.
Snipe is just to strong in combination with cloak/stealth.
Of course melee builds have no range capability, thats why they are melee builds. That does not mean snipe is too strong however, that just means you made yourself weak to it.
In other words, don't make a melee build and then complain people attack you from range.
I didnt complain they attack me from range. I did complain about snipe overperforming in combination with cloak.
Ignoring the fact that this still causes health desync it is possible to shoot 2 snipes from stealth without the target known for the huge incoming damage and just cloak away before your target breaks the CC. There is no counterplay for it cause you never know when it will come. And no class can sustain 24/7 Wings or shimmering just to counter a sniper who may or may not hides completly save in stealth charging snipe on you.
I just don't see what the problem is. You can make a melee build capable of wiping zergs in seconds with DB+shalks+execute. Yet when you can not kill a single sniper who shoots you twice and then runs away it makes him overperforming? I mean, really...
Just cause DB + Shalks + Execute can wipe some pugs and is indeed strong doesnt make snipe less overperforming.
Actually yes, yes it does. You are complaining about a peashooter while dropping A-bombs left and right.
IF I CAN NOT KILL IT IT IS OVERPERFORMING is the message you are sending here. All the while you are orbiting a rock at mach 5 kiting multiple enemies to their deaths with ulti dumps. Absolutely no sympathy here.
Oh, you know me ingame or how can you tell i do this?
It was a manner of speaking. In plain speak: In a game where one can orbit a rock at mach 5 kiting multiple enemies to their deaths with ulti dumps, another being able to get away after shooting twice is of no consequence.
I read it like you directly mean you, cause you were constantly saying "you".
Ofc, these stamden bombs are strong and overperforming, same like snipe in combination with cloak.
Only cause other overperforming things in a game exist doesnt make snipe less overperforming. I dont get your arguments here
How exactly is one player being able to get away after shooting twice "overperforming"?
That's my argument.
Where is it written that a ranged attacker MUST always be 100% catchable after he initiates an attack at long range(even if his target has no long range capability to retaliate), or else be considered overperforming?
A ranged attacker needs to have viable counters that aren't wings.
Not on a toon that is on purpose built as a pure melee brawler. If you make a toon that has no ranged capability, full well knowing that you did so to be exceptionally good at melee, then you have no leg to stand on claiming ranged builds are overperforming against you because you can not catch them.
Other than that, the ranged attacker faces plenty of counters during his gameplay.No one said they have to be catch-able
Really.
"...it is possible to shoot 2 snipes from stealth without the target known for the huge incoming damage and just cloak away before your target breaks the CC. There is no counterplay for it...
...Even if the targets manages to survive he wont catch him cause its nearly impossible for a melee build to close the gap before the sniper vanish into stealth again..."
TequilaFire wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »Other than fixing the desync issue, I’d have ZOS revert the change to the order of bow abilities. Having Snipe so early on in bow leveling makes lowbie battlegrounds miserable.
Now this I agree with never understood why they changed snipe to unlock so early.
And the client/server desync is the problem.