Cyrodiil's End: You win Zos

Vapirko

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

Ask yourself why would a company not fix a feature to their product if they had the means?
If I build a deck for you and there is a problem with it, I'll fix it because I want you to remain a customer.

Great analogy. Lets say you started out as a contractor building decks. You put tons of hard effort getting your licence, learning safety requirements, building codes. One bad online review could ruin your business. There are plenty of other contractors out there hungry for work but your good customer service gives you an edge. So you work hard to keep your customers pleased and interact with them personally. You only build one deck at a time.

This is about as far from ZOS's business model as you can get.

ZOS has very little direct competition, more customers than they can possible ever interact with personally, they can make more money selling a fake glowing horse than they can from an entire DLC. PvP isn't monetized for them, so it's not incentivized. Some evil marketer probably told them that PvE people have better KPIs, Daily logins, etc. Basically PvE payers are better than PvP players. So ZOS is chasing the money because marketing.

Look. PvP worked fine at one time. So if it worked then, its fixable now. ZOS is UNWILLING to do whatever it takes to fix PvP because they are driven by a very narrow focused group of people that are worse than molag bal cultists: Marketers.

Here let Steve Jobs explain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjvgpumG2mg
The last line of that got cut off but its the most important.

"They have no feeling in their hearts really about wanting to help the customers"
Because its not about customers. Its about sales numbers, Key performance indicators, Daily logins. Not the guy who's skills don't work in PvP.

And here was what PvP used to look like before ZOS ruined it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUzFW0Y11BM

No lag. More people online than they can handle now.

That looks like so much fun. Lag aside, its fun to have high pressure PvP these days, but that kind of battle with nobody knowing what they're doing looks great. And the blessed lack of AOE and Snares. I might honestly prefer going back to a simplified Cyrodiil PvP, instead of the giant groups just sweeping over other giant groups and obliterating them with as many skills as they can cast. Also though, if the amount of abilities and sets being used today could be implemented back then I would be wed see some lag, no?

Arunei

I used to PvP a lot back after launch when I was in a small guild I'd been with since closed beta. I had a potato back then and lagged pretty bad because of it but everyone else seemed to be fine and we generally had a lot of fun.

I can't remember the last time I went into Cyro to seriously PvP these days. I'm mostly an RPer now and also do a fair bit of PvE in the way of dungeons, but whenever I do go into Cyro for whatever reason (usually just to unlock Warhorn on a new tank), every time I get near even a smaller battle, my computer starts having serious issues, and I have a good gaming rig now with a hardwired connection directly into my router and a 15Mbps internet connection. Not exactly the best speedwise yeah, but you'd think a solid (and new, haven't even had this computer a full year yet) gaming rig wouldn't have the same issues a potato computer from years ago did when coming across even small scale battles.

As little as I PvP these days, I remember how much fun I used to have with my original guild. I hope ZOS gets on the ball with fixing this mess sooner rather than later for everyone who still has fun (or tries to) in Cyro.

MajBludd

Could it be all the sets they have now with the animations? You didn't have as many proc sets within the first 2 yrs of the game or didn't see many being used.

I just wonder how much of that plays into the lag

Deepblue962

Cavedog wrote: »

The lag is very bad lately. It's impossible to solo towns with lag as bad as it is now.....with all the extra guards, you can't get them down fast enough with this much lag.

It's really bad when you are solo and fighting only npc's and you lag out so bad your skills don't fire...even though the button light has blinked 15 times to indicate you are pushing the button.

But then again, when it's not prime time, everything works pretty good. The lag is clearly a server load issue, and not our individual internet connection.

Ditto. I don't even do PVP and won't attempt it given all the lag issues I hear about, because it's bad enough, solo PVE. Like Cavedog said, at certain times, like early morning Central US time zone, lag is fine, <100 ms, typically around 85ms. In the evening, it is consistently >200ms, with spikes during A SOLO PVE in a NON POPULATED AREA, of over 500ms. Definitely enough to cause spells to not fire at critical times and cause unfair death. I love this game, and won't stop playing, but DAMNIT, fix this!!! It's ridiculous.

Palidon

Yes Cyrodiil has been on a down hill slide for some time now. What is really sad is ZOS has completely turned a blind eye to the thousands of complaints about the performance issues in Cyrodiil. (Yes I mean thousands just count the number of threads on this Cyrodiil subject then look at all the complaints in each thread.)

I left ESO last month after finally realizing nothing was going to change. What is really funny is PvP was their big selling point for their game when it all started 4 years ago. Anyways you can continue to complain or find another game to play.
If you are going to stick around and put up with their bull then at least don't pay to play their game.

Happy New Year to All and happy gaming.

Jakx

The best is the click sound in the game to let you know that youre trying to break free but the servers just arent letting you. Click Click Click Click dead.

Hoolielulu

I ran into something new today: I only had the ability to roll backwards. That's all I could do to try and get away from an enemy and I was dead pretty quick.

valeriiya

Hoolielulu wrote: »

I ran into something new today: I only had the ability to roll backwards. That's all I could do to try and get away from an enemy and I was dead pretty quick.

It's not just you, I've had this for the last two weeks

dotme

Console PvP is pretty bad now. It didn't used to be.

1) Load screens everywhere. Just riding from Kingscrest to Arrius you'll hit 2-3 load screens in open field with no other players around. Those will last anywhere from 2 seconds to 10, but they'll always kill your rapids (and immersion). Load screens in the middle of fights are also becoming very common.

2) In combat. For days. You'll run from one keep to another because you can't mount, and you can't use a transit shrine.

3) Skill/Performance Lag. Makes even the simple act of walking through a door exciting because you tap X and nothing happens. Tap it a few more times, and you might go inside. Then out again. lol

4) Severe FPS drops, even when no other players are around, if you just loaded into a keep or area.

The list goes on. Way worse now than it was a year or two ago, with fewer campaigns and fewer players. I don't know what's going on any more.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Palidon wrote: »

I left ESO last month after finally realizing nothing was going to change. What is really funny is PvP was their big selling point for their game when it all started 4 years ago.

PvP was the ONLY endgame when the game launched. There was no trials, just some 4man dungeons and those were level locked.

ZOS's website used to advertise how amazing cyrodiil was. The site literally said "100s of players on screen at the same time"

That page has mysteriously been removed.

Durham

Crickets guys ..... churp churp ....

zyk

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

And here was what PvP used to look like before ZOS ruined it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUzFW0Y11BM

No lag. More people online than they can handle now.

I'm as critical as anyone of ZOS, but the game could handle what's in that video today. It's very slow and few, if any, actually know how to play.

Shardaxx wrote: »

You're right it was like that on console too in the early days, loads going on and no lag. Then after a patch about 2-3 years ago it all went wrong, and its never been right since.

Right, but PC Cyro performance became crippling during 2014, almost a year before the console release -- so the idealized Cyro you remember was played with the same version of the game that was extremely laggy for PC players.

The reason it didn't seem laggy was a combination of low level characters and the fact few knew how to play at that point.

cazlonb16_ESO

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Some evil marketer probably told them that PvE people have better KPIs, Daily logins, etc. Basically PvE payers are better than PvP players. So ZOS is chasing the money because marketing.

Let's be honest here: That "evil" marketer is right. Mass PvP in proper MMOs is completely different from Fortnite or Overwatch.

Even in Eve it is the PvEers who rake in the money and it is pretty much impossible to cater any more to the tiny minority of hardcore PvPers than CCP did and does.

The MMO PvP community is extremely demanding, super toxic and ungrateful ( yea, that includes me ). Even if Camelot Unchained turns out to be all the fans hope for, it will be a commercial disaster.

Completely botching the supposed PvP DLC Imperial City of course didn't exactly help ZOS...It was all about enabling gankers and that is just stupid design. We told them, but...

Icarus42

Its frustrating when no amount of skill can overcome the horrible debilitating lag bombs that honestly have killed me more times than anything else in Cyrodiil. Its sad because Cyrodiil has the potential to be awesome, which I have experienced in the off hours, in smaller scale field battles, or epic keep defenses etc.
This issue has been going on for so long however that I feel certain that it is something that cannot be fixed, otherwise wouldn't ZOS have taken care of it?
Its unfortunate that for many people pvp is primarily why they got this game in the first place. Or equally frustrating for those who finish the storyline and want something more to do in game, something to build towards and all they have is a buggy laggy mess that is Cyrodiil.

Colecovision

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

If only there was another CP campaign we could play in that wasn’t overpopulated and laggy... SHORly they made one, but unSHOR if they did... it would be awfully SHORtsighted of ZOS to not have provided another campaign.

The only campaigns that exist are the ones that give 50 crystals at the end.

TequilaFire

If you PvP every day, you will have more transmute crystals than you can hold before the end of a 30 day campaign.
I have so many geodes I have to destroy them.

Exodium

Cyrodill Vivec has been at its all time worst the past few weeks. Everyone is reporting constant crashes and lag. Ive been in situations where 16 people surrounded me and couldnt kill me cause it was so laggy their attacks werent registering...I couldn't kill any of them either

This game is actual ***. Like I said Black Desert Online will be the death of this game for anyone that values PvP.

Sylosi

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

The MMO PvP community is extremely demanding, super toxic and ungrateful ( yea, that includes me .

I'd say the PvP community (and in fact the whole playerbase) are pretty undemanding.

If balance, performance, unfixed bugs, attention to gameplay, etc in a shooter, moba, etc were as bad as in ESO then you'd simply have a dead game where no one sticks around.

Which is actually the problem with MMORPGs the gameplay is both third rate and not a priority. Which is why despite the huge influx of people to online gaming in recent years, barely any have ended up with MMORPGs, and the genre has gone from mainstream to niche.

The people who play these games are undemanding, they will put up with a product which in its worst case is not even fit for use (see Cyrodil), the majority do not really care about game play, they are Skinner Box zombies who are mainly concerned about being patted on the head like a dog and getting their shiny rewards.

But even those won't save MMORPGs, because more and more of them go to mobile gaming.

eol

Wow. My experience is totally different. I avoid Vivec like the lag-plague it is, and play on Sotha and sometimes Shor and in general I have fun. No lag except sometimes in big (30+ player) battles, and even then its not that bad, nothing like you are describing in Vivec.

People keep saying that Zos should pay attention and 'fix it', but perhaps the problem is inherent in the design and is not fixable? Don't you think they would have fixed it if they could? Why wouldn't they? I agree with the person who said that they are putting more emphasis on battlegrounds, where the # of players is limited. But if you want open world PVP just go to Sotha or Shor and make do. Yes they are much less active than Vivec, especially in US off-hours, but they are playable and I enjoy it there. Not sure why you would stay in Vivec and not give them a chance. IMO its them or nothing, your choice.

Itzmichi

Game is dying so why people still wondering? 🤔

eso_lags

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKneUtICdtU

eso_lags

eol wrote: »

Wow. My experience is totally different. I avoid Vivec like the lag-plague it is, and play on Sotha and sometimes Shor and in general I have fun. No lag except sometimes in big (30+ player) battles, and even then its not that bad, nothing like you are describing in Vivec.

People keep saying that Zos should pay attention and 'fix it', but perhaps the problem is inherent in the design and is not fixable? Don't you think they would have fixed it if they could? Why wouldn't they? I agree with the person who said that they are putting more emphasis on battlegrounds, where the # of players is limited. But if you want open world PVP just go to Sotha or Shor and make do. Yes they are much less active than Vivec, especially in US off-hours, but they are playable and I enjoy it there. Not sure why you would stay in Vivec and not give them a chance. IMO its them or nothing, your choice.

At least if they came out and said they couldnt fix it then a lot of us would just give up hope. There would be no point in wondering when it was going to get fixed. Then we would choose to either deal with it or leave. And thats how it happens right now anyway, some people have left, some people have stayed. Pretty much everyone has left solo pvp though.. But honesty is not what a company does. It strings you along to keep you paying. So here we are.

Jakx

eso_lags wrote: »

eol wrote: »

Wow. My experience is totally different. I avoid Vivec like the lag-plague it is, and play on Sotha and sometimes Shor and in general I have fun. No lag except sometimes in big (30+ player) battles, and even then its not that bad, nothing like you are describing in Vivec.

People keep saying that Zos should pay attention and 'fix it', but perhaps the problem is inherent in the design and is not fixable? Don't you think they would have fixed it if they could? Why wouldn't they? I agree with the person who said that they are putting more emphasis on battlegrounds, where the # of players is limited. But if you want open world PVP just go to Sotha or Shor and make do. Yes they are much less active than Vivec, especially in US off-hours, but they are playable and I enjoy it there. Not sure why you would stay in Vivec and not give them a chance. IMO its them or nothing, your choice.

At least if they came out and said they couldnt fix it then a lot of us would just give up hope. There would be no point in wondering when it was going to get fixed. Then we would choose to either deal with it or leave. And thats how it happens right now anyway, some people have left, some people have stayed. Pretty much everyone has left solo pvp though.. But honesty is not what a company does. It strings you along to keep you paying. So here we are.

Completely agree with this sentiment. They wont do it because it'll cost them money but I'd personally prefer just to know the truth behind it. I think I could deal with it better if I didnt expect this company to fix it. You either accept it or play the game for other reasons. Lately though this company has been drying up all their goodwill toward the player base so I'd expect nothing to come down the pipe.

fatmanatcomp

Cancel plus, play other games, feel the stress and disapppointment leave you.

Hoolielulu

valeriiya wrote: »

Hoolielulu wrote: »

I ran into something new today: I only had the ability to roll backwards. That's all I could do to try and get away from an enemy and I was dead pretty quick.

It's not just you, I've had this for the last two weeks

Yikes

eol

well I agree, they should address the issue. But game companies - like products of most types - are not big on advertising their game's faults. Like many game companies they are probably struggling to make money and not reduce staff.

One other comment about the 'good old days of PvP before Zos ruined it': I was there from beta on, and there was never such a time. Maybe it seemed that way to some, but if you looked close enough, it never existed. I quit the first time in 2015 because of problems in PvP, like multi-botting and zergs creating lag on purpose (infinite comets) to crash the server and prevent keeps from flipping. Now you can blame Zos for that, but you can also blame players who are jerks and who will cheat at all costs. Few of these games are so hack-proof that a determined player cant find a way to cheat if they try hard enough.

I came back late in 2015, left again in 2016, but have been back since early 2017. PvP on my campaigns is the best it has ever been in terms of playability and lag. Vivec is bad, and maybe its gotten worse since I tried it a couple times, but the moment an enemy zerg comes close, I could feel the lag and lack of responsiveness, so why play there? I think PvP is pretty much like animation cancelling: Zos never intended that, but it there is no feasible way to fix it, so we have to live with it.

The worse thing Zos has done is allowed an account to play on different alliances in the same campaign. It has ruined a sense of realm-pride and just encouraged players to log onto the winning alliance, until its losing and then switch.

Anyway, it is what it is. There are still many problems and probably always will be in a game with this much complexity. But there are many good aspects, especially when compared to other games out there which have their own set of pros and cons.

Savos_Saren

The lag last night was atrocious in Vivec PC/NA. It’s progressively getting worse. It bleeds over into PVE as well.

I can’t remember the last time that I’ve seen a ZOS representative in-game- nor have I seen any “improvement to lag” as they constantly say they’re focusing on.

You know what I have seen, though? Stupid banners about crown store items and cash grab garbage.

I’ve recently changed credit cards and I need to change my billing info for my subscription. Supposedly the only way to do that is to cancel your subscription and then reapply. But honestly- after four years of watching this game shift from an MMORPG to a D&D version of the Sims- if I unsubscribe... I’m not going to resub.

I wonder if ESO is going to win MMORPG of the year this time.

Jakx

eol wrote: »

well I agree, they should address the issue. But game companies - like products of most types - are not big on advertising their game's faults. Like many game companies they are probably struggling to make money and not reduce staff.

One other comment about the 'good old days of PvP before Zos ruined it': I was there from beta on, and there was never such a time. Maybe it seemed that way to some, but if you looked close enough, it never existed. I quit the first time in 2015 because of problems in PvP, like multi-botting and zergs creating lag on purpose (infinite comets) to crash the server and prevent keeps from flipping. Now you can blame Zos for that, but you can also blame players who are jerks and who will cheat at all costs. Few of these games are so hack-proof that a determined player cant find a way to cheat if they try hard enough.

I came back late in 2015, left again in 2016, but have been back since early 2017. PvP on my campaigns is the best it has ever been in terms of playability and lag. Vivec is bad, and maybe its gotten worse since I tried it a couple times, but the moment an enemy zerg comes close, I could feel the lag and lack of responsiveness, so why play there? I think PvP is pretty much like animation cancelling: Zos never intended that, but it there is no feasible way to fix it, so we have to live with it.

The worse thing Zos has done is allowed an account to play on different alliances in the same campaign. It has ruined a sense of realm-pride and just encouraged players to log onto the winning alliance, until its losing and then switch.

Anyway, it is what it is. There are still many problems and probably always will be in a game with this much complexity. But there are many good aspects, especially when compared to other games out there which have their own set of pros and cons.

The game companies that are losing money have pretty standard faults across the board. Blizzard neglected its player base and now it suffers, its mmo went in a direction of "you think you want it but you dont" and they'll tell you whats fun, cant forget "dont you all have phones?" Zenimax? Look no further than Bethesda subsidiary releasing Fallout 76 which was garbage. Maybe every studio can argue its the parent company, marketing department, and/or some CEO thats pushing profit over quality but thats why consumers are FINNNNALLLY responding with their wallets after years of companies taking advantage of consumers penchant for brand loyalty.

Now is the time in ESO that I am pushing this onto these developers. Its time that they put in the resources to fix the current game instead of adding more paint over the rusting infrastructure. I get that it must be exhausting to push new context every 3 months but when you neglect all the previous content unless its crowns or housing then you're destined to start losing customers. Its a terrible business direction which I cant fathom how someone at ZOS thinks that server performance isn't a priority. You'll win maybe in the short term with cash grabs but how long is that sustainable?

Waseem

another unannounced feature in locked population feature: killing enemy players at a high distance ( like ballista max range) yields a kill but not AP, regardless of how much damage you do, this feature is exclusive to locked pops pvp.

ZarkingFrued

They will never fix PVp lagggggggggggggggggggggggggg