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Cyrodiil's End: You win Zos

  • Aquatorch
    Aquatorch
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    I think one of the biggest problems with lag is because ZoS is using Akamai for their DDoS protection, which they need of course.

    The solution could be somewhat simple if they were just willing to address it. All they have to do is add a built-in VPN that bypasses Akamai once you authenticate. This solves the following:

    If they kept Akamai in place, no one outside of the gaming community should be able to DDOS the servers, but the folks who authenticate to the servers would bypass Akamai completely and thus lower their latency anywhere from 20% to 80%.

  • zyk
    zyk
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    Aquatorch wrote: »
    I think one of the biggest problems with lag is because ZoS is using Akamai for their DDoS protection, which they need of course.

    The solution could be somewhat simple if they were just willing to address it. All they have to do is add a built-in VPN that bypasses Akamai once you authenticate. This solves the following:

    If they kept Akamai in place, no one outside of the gaming community should be able to DDOS the servers, but the folks who authenticate to the servers would bypass Akamai completely and thus lower their latency anywhere from 20% to 80%.

    The bad guys would then ddos the vpn. There's no easy answers to ddosing. But I don't think it has close to the impact you think it does because we don't see close to the same performance issues in PVE.

    The biggest problem has been made clear by ZOS: the server is overwhelmed by server-side calculations.

    Stacked players who use AEs create the most lag because they have far more interactions that require calculations.

    It is made worse when the stacked players are grouped because of group-only calculations.

    It is made worse by good players who are weaving and executing abilities on cooldown.

    It is made worse by well-built characters who survive/sustain longer and are more likely to use one or more proc sets; especially AE proc sets including offensive and defensive sets.

    Therefore elite raids who check all of those boxes create the most lag. Especially when they are constantly looking for outnumbered fights.

    If you are an elite pvp raid, do us all a favor and don't backdoor that 40v40 that's already happening at ash/chal/alessia.
    Edited by zyk on January 9, 2019 5:20AM
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you"
    pvp videos: eso zyk on youtube
    enjin profile
    66
    lives · lived · will live - dies · died · will die
  • tamrielwinner
    tamrielwinner
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    zyk wrote: »
    The biggest problem has been made clear by ZOS: the server is overwhelmed by server-side calculations.

    Stacked players who use AEs create the most lag because they have far more interactions that require calculations.

    It is made worse when the stacked players are grouped because of group-only calculations.

    It is made worse by good players who are weaving and executing abilities on cooldown.

    It is made worse by well-built characters who survive/sustain longer and are more likely to use one or more proc sets; especially AE proc sets including offensive and defensive sets.

    Therefore elite raids who check all of those boxes create the most lag. Especially when they are constantly looking for outnumbered fights.

    what you just described is playing the game and it should be no fault of the players, whatever they may be doing.

    pvp is a relatively small player base in most mmos compared to those that pve. the investment into pve is probably 98% of their resources spent compared to pvp and that's the main reason.
  • zyk
    zyk
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    what you just described is playing the game and it should be no fault of the players, whatever they may be doing.
    The performance issues in Cyrodiil are, ultimately, not the fault of the players, no. ZOS has, bone-headedly, designed gameplay their AvA server tech cannot handle.

    Players can't do very much about that.

    However, players can control what they do in Cyrodiil and should avoid doing things they know will degrade performance for everyone. That's just being a decent citizen.

    It's reasonable to ask players to limit their raids to one large group and to avoid bringing their raids to already large, laggy fights.
    Edited by zyk on January 9, 2019 8:49AM
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you"
    pvp videos: eso zyk on youtube
    enjin profile
    66
    lives · lived · will live - dies · died · will die
  • eso_lags
    eso_lags
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    Jakx wrote: »
    I cant even imagine consoles. If I were console I'd have quit long ago. This game isn't made for console, thats a straight cash grab. I wonder how much console development held/holds this game back. I get it though, it got them lots of money.

    Don't tell me my shoes are tight before you haven't worn them @Jakx it's not that bad and with a few tricks you can get a very smooth connection I rarely crash more then 1ce a day and only in pvp.

    and what are those tips and tricks, if you wouldnt mind.
    XB1 NA GT: Eso Lags
    CP 1000+ XB1
    CP 169 Stormproof Stam sorc - PC NA
    Broken game

  • KaiDynasty
    KaiDynasty
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    On PC Eu i don't crash, but man, the lag is awful. The delay on the skills the moment when you press them and when they effectively fire is horrible. Most of the times if you press a skill it just doesn't register at all, i am sad about it but in terms of performance Eso Cyrodiil is one of the worst game to play.
  • MajBludd
    MajBludd
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    I choose "C"
  • Shantu
    Shantu
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    Stupid lag kills where you get hit by 5 skills in a nanosecond by the same guy are making me just log out. You put all this effort into maximizing your gear, resistances, skills...and some guy comes up and kills you with one swing. So much fun!
  • ZOS_MikaS
    ZOS_MikaS
    admin
    We have removed several off topic and baiting comments from this thread. It is appreciated that this thread has remained constructive for the vast majority of the discussion, but we ask that you keep all commentary on-topic so that the thread doesn't continue to derail. Thank you for your understanding and for providing us with your feedback.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
  • Aquatorch
    Aquatorch
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    ZOS_MikaS wrote: »
    We have removed several off topic and baiting comments from this thread. It is appreciated that this thread has remained constructive for the vast majority of the discussion, but we ask that you keep all commentary on-topic so that the thread doesn't continue to derail. Thank you for your understanding and for providing us with your feedback.

    Since ZoS employees are clearly reading the forum posts, can you please address the lag, latency, and Akamai, issues? I really just want to know if you're at least looking into them or if I'm wasting my time and money on the game.
  • Jakx
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    Does ZOS see whats going on performance wise in PC NA Vivec right now? It's only going to get worse for this event. Lets discuss.
    Joined September 2013
  • Jakx
    Jakx
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    First Vivec freeze of the event. Many more to go :)
    Joined September 2013
  • Jaavaa
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    R.I.P Cyro. Unplayable like every year at this event. Zos don't care about us pvp only Players.
  • merevie
    merevie
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    This thread has been ignored. Thank you for playing Elder Scrolls Online.

    Please use the Crown Store on your way out
  • Kiwi
    Kiwi
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    There is nobody with any means to influence the game in this forum that will ever help anyone with anything.
    and thats a proven fact
    A large yellow rectangle
    
  • NeillMcAttack
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    Jakx wrote: »
    Is this an issue you ignore because its just an unfixable problem with the servers and combat?

    Yes. It's been 4 and a half years. What do you think has changed?
    PS4 EU
    Slawhk Dunmer Magblade EP Tidehunter Argonian StamDK Tank EP
    Sephirith Altmer Temp Support EP Bahamith Dunmer MagDK EP
    Raise-or Redguard StamSorc EP Kaijt Sith Khajiit StamBlade EP
    Lone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP
    Housing done right<-click to discuss. A quality AvA experience<-click to discuss
  • Gronk
    Gronk
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    Was at KC keep about an hour ago a super freeze like everything stopped then when I was able to move again I only had 2 k health. I think Jakx ran past me and got caught up in that mess to at KC.

    Going to go make dinner and call it a night or a week or longer.
    Old Guard since Jan 2014
    "Read more, Post less."
  • Jakx
    Jakx
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    Jakx wrote: »
    Is this an issue you ignore because its just an unfixable problem with the servers and combat?

    Yes. It's been 4 and a half years. What do you think has changed?

    I'm guessing CP has made server calculations more taxing and that if we got word from the devs that No-Cp only cyrodiil would be massively improved performance wise. Then maybe we should think about getting on that? Theres things the devs can do and refuse to do. Its a fact that performance has gotten worse, now we need to reverse what's been causing it. Whatever that might be. Its speculation from my end.. its their jobs to know.
    Gronk wrote: »
    Was at KC keep about an hour ago a super freeze like everything stopped then when I was able to move again I only had 2 k health. I think Jakx ran past me and got caught up in that mess to at KC.

    Going to go make dinner and call it a night or a week or longer.

    Yea I just solo pvp and was like two keeps away from any fighting and the ability lag was unreal. This event is pretty much just becoming go play slide show next to the zergs to get your keep flip double AP. I didn't freeze in KC but earlier at Chal it was ripperino.
    Joined September 2013
  • p00tx
    p00tx
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    As stated above, we all pay money to play this game, and we all paid money to even access it in the first place. If this were a 100% free to play, free download, no crown store game, we wouldn't really have a leg to stand on, but we pay for a product. Some of us pay a LOT (doesn't matter what anyone feels about that because those dollars fund this game). There is no reason whatsoever to ignore your clientele when they are telling you, over and over and over, that your product doesn't work. I am so disgusted and fed up with the utter lack of regard given for issues like this, and I'm embarrassed for the amazing artists and talented technicians and programmers who have given their time and talent to this game only to end up aligned with a soulless money hungry machine whose only goal is to squeeze out as much cash as possible over the lifespan of this game. It's absolutely shameful.

    Also, don't bother entreating the forum moderators for help. They are usually independent contractors hired by the company or a contracted third party to approve or deny forum posts and make sure no one is violating the ToS. They're not responsible for any of the issues and have no power to communicate your concerns to upper management. I think if any of us want to make sure the right people hear these concerns, it's going to take some carefully and professionally worded letters sent to the higher ups.
    Edited by p00tx on January 10, 2019 10:13PM
    Xbox NA
  • Agalloch
    Agalloch
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    ZOS must remove the anti bot software that come with the lighting patch.

    They can implement another anti bot software , more modern , who doesn't eat so much resources.

    Before lighting patch we had a larger scale PVP in Cyrodiil 500x500x500. , maybe even more...hundreds of players on the same screen....with almost no performance issues.

    I miss the old days of pvp.



    English is not my native language.
  • Jakx
    Jakx
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    ZOS needs to present to us why performance degraded so much. There is a solution here but the damning part is they likely are too apathetic to do anything about it.


    Are CP calculations ruining performance? Then switch Cyro completely to no-CP.

    Did the lighting patch updates screw performance? They did so revert what caused it from there and reevaluate.

    Server quality? Upgrade.

    There's solutions here and while I don't expect them to discuss options with the community. I expect them to fix it.
    Joined September 2013
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    Jakx wrote: »

    I'm guessing CP has made server calculations more taxing and that if we got word from the devs that No-Cp only cyrodiil would be massively improved performance wise. Then maybe we should think about getting on that? Theres things the devs can do and refuse to do. Its a fact that performance has gotten worse, now we need to reverse what's been causing it. Whatever that might be. Its speculation from my end.. its their jobs to know.

    The devs did an event to test CP Vs no CP 2 years ago. They never released the results and the CP severs are still here.

    Most people that tried both didn't notice a difference.

    Don't you think that if CP was the smoking gun, they would have said so?

    .
    Edited by Katahdin on January 11, 2019 2:40PM
    Beta tester November 2013
  • Jakx
    Jakx
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    Katahdin wrote: »
    Jakx wrote: »

    I'm guessing CP has made server calculations more taxing and that if we got word from the devs that No-Cp only cyrodiil would be massively improved performance wise. Then maybe we should think about getting on that? Theres things the devs can do and refuse to do. Its a fact that performance has gotten worse, now we need to reverse what's been causing it. Whatever that might be. Its speculation from my end.. its their jobs to know.

    The devs did an event to test CP Vs no CP 2 years ago. They never released the results and the CP severs are still here.

    Most people that tried both didn't notice a difference.

    Don't you think that if CP was the smoking gun, they would have said so?

    .

    No. I don't think they would have at all. They've said absolutely nothing since that test or really anything pertaining to PvP. We already have evidence that CP causes performance issues, just look at how all CP must round down to the nearest whole number and cant factor decimals, its due to calculations and was a change made just because of performance degradation. So even having to do those calculations is still a tax on the system. Either way I am saying that could be a cause of the issue but its all speculation. It's ZOS' job to know the problem and fix it, they haven't communicated with their players on any of the pvp performance issues.
    Joined September 2013
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    Jakx wrote: »
    Katahdin wrote: »
    Jakx wrote: »

    I'm guessing CP has made server calculations more taxing and that if we got word from the devs that No-Cp only cyrodiil would be massively improved performance wise. Then maybe we should think about getting on that? Theres things the devs can do and refuse to do. Its a fact that performance has gotten worse, now we need to reverse what's been causing it. Whatever that might be. Its speculation from my end.. its their jobs to know.

    The devs did an event to test CP Vs no CP 2 years ago. They never released the results and the CP severs are still here.

    Most people that tried both didn't notice a difference.

    Don't you think that if CP was the smoking gun, they would have said so?

    .

    No. I don't think they would have at all. They've said absolutely nothing since that test or really anything pertaining to PvP. We already have evidence that CP causes performance issues, just look at how all CP must round down to the nearest whole number and cant factor decimals, its due to calculations and was a change made just because of performance degradation. So even having to do those calculations is still a tax on the system. Either way I am saying that could be a cause of the issue but its all speculation. It's ZOS' job to know the problem and fix it, they haven't communicated with their players on any of the pvp performance issues.

    Either they can't fix it or dont want to fix it because it is too big an undertaking and don't want to tell the playerbase that
    Beta tester November 2013
  • Jakx
    Jakx
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    Katahdin wrote: »
    Jakx wrote: »
    Katahdin wrote: »
    Jakx wrote: »

    I'm guessing CP has made server calculations more taxing and that if we got word from the devs that No-Cp only cyrodiil would be massively improved performance wise. Then maybe we should think about getting on that? Theres things the devs can do and refuse to do. Its a fact that performance has gotten worse, now we need to reverse what's been causing it. Whatever that might be. Its speculation from my end.. its their jobs to know.

    The devs did an event to test CP Vs no CP 2 years ago. They never released the results and the CP severs are still here.

    Most people that tried both didn't notice a difference.

    Don't you think that if CP was the smoking gun, they would have said so?

    .

    No. I don't think they would have at all. They've said absolutely nothing since that test or really anything pertaining to PvP. We already have evidence that CP causes performance issues, just look at how all CP must round down to the nearest whole number and cant factor decimals, its due to calculations and was a change made just because of performance degradation. So even having to do those calculations is still a tax on the system. Either way I am saying that could be a cause of the issue but its all speculation. It's ZOS' job to know the problem and fix it, they haven't communicated with their players on any of the pvp performance issues.

    Either they can't fix it or dont want to fix it because it is too big an undertaking and don't want to tell the playerbase that

    This is likely the case but hey.. What are forums for except to ignore your playerbase and create more dissatisfaction.
    Joined September 2013
  • Jakx
    Jakx
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    How's the lag today?
    Joined September 2013
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