Some things just need to happen...

Crixus8000 · December 2018

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Well mmo=grind.

The skill points are a part of the progression of a character. If they were available to every character after your first, you'd have way too many options for skills/passives at lvl 1 compared to a brand new player at lvl 1. They are completely different than achievements, not the same at all. Now if you only wanted the "skyshard Hunter" achievement be account wide, or the locations revealed on the map, ok. You should still need to go to them to get the bonus skill points.

Now you may say "but CP gives way more advantage than skill points at a low level" and you'd be correct. I'd rather that CP stays account wide but only unlocks at level 50.

Zos thought of this for pvp though, and that's why CP is disabled in the under 50 campaigns. They know that against other players without CP, a max CP level 10 could wreck them. This is also a reason why some skill points are locked behind the skyshards. If a player wants to twink in under 50 cyro they at least have to put in a little effort to get those skill points.

The fact that I can craft gold armor, weapons and jewelry for my new level 10 and know a little bit about ESO pvp already puts me in a position to dominate a completely new player to pvp.

Now you might say, "but what about pve players, I hate cyro, would never set foot there!" but the fact is ESO doesn't separate skills, sets or hardly anything beyond battlespirit, between pvp and pve.
We all know what happens to one happens to the other.

The tl:dr version; it would adversely effect brand new players in both pvp and pve therefore shouldn't happen.

Then mount training, guilds and skyshars ect could just unlock at 50, making you have no advantage over newer players but not forcing people to grind for something they have already worked for.

I don't enjoy pve on this game. I play it for the pvp, so being forced to grind something I hate just to be able to play the thing I actually want is quite annoying. After you have done the grind once I just think it should be optional to skip it...

Cambruin · December 2018

There is no accomplishment whatsoever in modern-day MMOs. Nothing that sets you apart from me. You know who does stand out in a crowd? Those with 60/60/60 mounts. Those with r10 mages guild. Those who beat the 'fishing game'.

While it doesn't take skill, it does require dedication to get those unlocked. And you want to have this account-wide?? The precious few real 'feats' being trivialized in what's already a very trivial game/genre?

If you can't dedicate yourself to something, that's your problem, don't ask devs to adjust their game to your needs. The genre thrived on 'bloat' and 'grind'. Now bloat is removed so everyone and everyone's mother finds it easily accessible. Grind can be circumvented through store items.
The less of these 'grinds', the faster you'll chew through the game. The faster you'll move on to the next. Only to consume it and move on again. Like locusts.

Crixus8000 · December 2018

Cambruin wrote: »

There is no accomplishment whatsoever in modern-day MMOs. Nothing that sets you apart from me. You know who does stand out in a crowd? Those with 60/60/60 mounts. Those with r10 mages guild. Those who beat the 'fishing game'.

While it doesn't take skill, it does require dedication to get those unlocked. And you want to have this account-wide?? The precious few real 'feats' being trivialized in what's already a very trivial game/genre?

If you can't dedicate yourself to something, that's your problem, don't ask devs to adjust their game to your needs. The genre thrived on 'bloat' and 'grind'. Now bloat is removed so everyone and everyone's mother finds it easily accessible. Grind can be circumvented through store items.
The less of these 'grinds', the faster you'll chew through the game. The faster you'll move on to the next. Only to consume it and move on again. Like locusts.

Why do you assume your way of playing is the same for everyone ? Having all these things done faster would not make me bored of the game quickly, it would do the opposite, what's making me bored is only being able to play one character because I would have to grind for a long time doing something I HATE just to be able to play.

In cyrodil you will want a max speed mount as the map is huge, it's already basically a horse simulator even with a max speed mount. So that's 60 days I have to wait just untill I can move at a decent pace.

If you don't want to have these things account wide then don't I said it would be good as being optional, but it's quite sad that it bothers you just because someone would get something that they already worked for.

Vapirko · December 2018

The problem is, there are two groups of people. The first group would like to see some stuff made less monotonous like sky shards, mount lessons. Because for us the goal is endgame. We want to go have fun in PvP or PvE at the higher levels and we don’t want to spend wasted hours grinding everything when we want to adapt a new class for endgame content. The other crowd enjoys the grind, reading every story line, gathering every lorebook many times over. Many are probably not too big into endgame stuff. But the problem with this crowd is they think it’s “lazy” to not want to spend your time repeating the same material over and over (although what could be physically lazier than sitting in front of a computer doing the same activity again and again?) And these people are vehemently against anyone else having to grind less. Why? I don’t know. Maybe because they attribute some sort of self worth from completing the same thing on ten different alts. But come in here and try to get the grind reduced so you can go enjoy your endgame more and these people will come out of the woodworks to yell at you, tell you your lazy and spit on you for wanting to skip the “challenge.” Also ZOS makes money from things like mount lessons so they won’t change it.

Siohwenoeht · December 2018

Cambruin wrote: »

There is no accomplishment whatsoever in modern-day MMOs. Nothing that sets you apart from me. You know who does stand out in a crowd? Those with 60/60/60 mounts. Those with r10 mages guild. Those who beat the 'fishing game'.

While it doesn't take skill, it does require dedication to get those unlocked. And you want to have this account-wide?? The precious few real 'feats' being trivialized in what's already a very trivial game/genre?

If you can't dedicate yourself to something, that's your problem, don't ask devs to adjust their game to your needs. The genre thrived on 'bloat' and 'grind'. Now bloat is removed so everyone and everyone's mother finds it easily accessible. Grind can be circumvented through store items.
The less of these 'grinds', the faster you'll chew through the game. The faster you'll move on to the next. Only to consume it and move on again. Like locusts.

You know that brought me back to burning crusade WoW lol. Getting the explorer achievement on my main really did feel like an accomplishment. You had to sneak into the other alliance territory where you could be attacked on sight by the city guards. Toughest part was getting into the night elf starting zone. Had to stow away on a small boat and either hope the guards on the boat didn't find you or kill them to reach the mainland, then run through the capital city immediately since there wasn't a way around, trailing guards and whatnot behind you. It's been so long I don't remember for sure but it might have auto-flagged you for pvp too, I know the capital city raids did. Definitely nothing like that anymore.

Tandor · December 2018

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

can we just get a toggle?

I am still bewildered why some people dont want account bound achievements for others when it has zero effect on themselves.

But it does impact on everyone. It can't just appear one patch day, it has to be designed, coded and tested - all of which diverts scarce resources from more important development priorities.

It also unbalances the game.

Plus whenever something game-changing is made optional there is enormous pressure to adopt the change rather than toggle it off, and players will get kicked from groups if they haven't done so.

These sorts of proposal are not QoL improvements, they are structural gameplay changes and as such they impact everyone.

Tandor · December 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Well mmo=grind.

The skill points are a part of the progression of a character. If they were available to every character after your first, you'd have way too many options for skills/passives at lvl 1 compared to a brand new player at lvl 1. They are completely different than achievements, not the same at all. Now if you only wanted the "skyshard Hunter" achievement be account wide, or the locations revealed on the map, ok. You should still need to go to them to get the bonus skill points.

Now you may say "but CP gives way more advantage than skill points at a low level" and you'd be correct. I'd rather that CP stays account wide but only unlocks at level 50.

Zos thought of this for pvp though, and that's why CP is disabled in the under 50 campaigns. They know that against other players without CP, a max CP level 10 could wreck them. This is also a reason why some skill points are locked behind the skyshards. If a player wants to twink in under 50 cyro they at least have to put in a little effort to get those skill points.

The fact that I can craft gold armor, weapons and jewelry for my new level 10 and know a little bit about ESO pvp already puts me in a position to dominate a completely new player to pvp.

Now you might say, "but what about pve players, I hate cyro, would never set foot there!" but the fact is ESO doesn't separate skills, sets or hardly anything beyond battlespirit, between pvp and pve.
We all know what happens to one happens to the other.

The tl:dr version; it would adversely effect brand new players in both pvp and pve therefore shouldn't happen.

Then mount training, guilds and skyshars ect could just unlock at 50, making you have no advantage over newer players but not forcing people to grind for something they have already worked for.

I don't enjoy pve on this game. I play it for the pvp, so being forced to grind something I hate just to be able to play the thing I actually want is quite annoying. After you have done the grind once I just think it should be optional to skip it...

I understand your frustration, but why should someone who's only here for the PvP be able to change the way PvE operates? How you would feel about it if I as a PvEer started demanding gameplay changes in order to dumb down PvP?

Crixus8000 · December 2018

Tandor wrote: »

show previous quotes

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Well mmo=grind.

The skill points are a part of the progression of a character. If they were available to every character after your first, you'd have way too many options for skills/passives at lvl 1 compared to a brand new player at lvl 1. They are completely different than achievements, not the same at all. Now if you only wanted the "skyshard Hunter" achievement be account wide, or the locations revealed on the map, ok. You should still need to go to them to get the bonus skill points.

Now you may say "but CP gives way more advantage than skill points at a low level" and you'd be correct. I'd rather that CP stays account wide but only unlocks at level 50.

Zos thought of this for pvp though, and that's why CP is disabled in the under 50 campaigns. They know that against other players without CP, a max CP level 10 could wreck them. This is also a reason why some skill points are locked behind the skyshards. If a player wants to twink in under 50 cyro they at least have to put in a little effort to get those skill points.

The fact that I can craft gold armor, weapons and jewelry for my new level 10 and know a little bit about ESO pvp already puts me in a position to dominate a completely new player to pvp.

Now you might say, "but what about pve players, I hate cyro, would never set foot there!" but the fact is ESO doesn't separate skills, sets or hardly anything beyond battlespirit, between pvp and pve.
We all know what happens to one happens to the other.

The tl:dr version; it would adversely effect brand new players in both pvp and pve therefore shouldn't happen.

Then mount training, guilds and skyshars ect could just unlock at 50, making you have no advantage over newer players but not forcing people to grind for something they have already worked for.

I don't enjoy pve on this game. I play it for the pvp, so being forced to grind something I hate just to be able to play the thing I actually want is quite annoying. After you have done the grind once I just think it should be optional to skip it...

I understand your frustration, but why should someone who's only here for the PvP be able to change the way PvE operates? How you would feel about it if I as a PvEer started demanding gameplay changes in order to dumb down PvP?

That's why I said make it optional, or something. I mean I'm ok playing my char, I have fun with the game when it's not lagging too bad, but it would be nice to be able to play other characters. I just don't think being able to skip some skyshards and guilds would be a big deal, especially since I have already grinded it all on my main char.

Edziu · December 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

The problem is, there are two groups of people. The first group would like to see some stuff made less monotonous like sky shards, mount lessons. Because for us the goal is endgame. We want to go have fun in PvP or PvE at the higher levels and we don’t want to spend wasted hours grinding everything when we want to adapt a new class for endgame content. The other crowd enjoys the grind, reading every story line, gathering every lorebook many times over. Many are probably not too big into endgame stuff. But the problem with this crowd is they think it’s “lazy” to not want to spend your time repeating the same material over and over (although what could be physically lazier than sitting in front of a computer doing the same activity again and again?) And these people are vehemently against anyone else having to grind less. Why? I don’t know. Maybe because they attribute some sort of self worth from completing the same thing on ten different alts. But come in here and try to get the grind reduced so you can go enjoy your endgame more and these people will come out of the woodworks to yell at you, tell you your lazy and spit on you for wanting to skip the “challenge.” Also ZOS makes money from things like mount lessons so they won’t change it.

this is the best explanation I have seen in single post about everything in this thread1

and this is sad how in these 2 groups which we have - pvp and end game players who just get really bored after grinding their new char just to get it in playabe state for their content so this grining for new toon is just taking away more from this game to finalli stop playing as its not fun to grind every this new char while playing single character also is jsut burning out this player after long time

and we - those players for harder content than just grinding every new alt we have many suggestions and arguments and compromises how ZOS could improwe our QoL to keep us in game for much longer so giving us more fun of playing this game while not breaking playability or immersion those who prefer this grind more - as our basic suggestion is just toggle option so we would be happy and grinders would be happy as they still can grind what they want

but unfortunately as I experienced in 95% of posts in thread like this - this 2nd group - so these who like repear grind on every new character because of their immersion - they are more selfish because they dont care about our feeling what we feel about their grind which we dont hate them for that as we understand and thats why we have many compromoses - for which unfortunately this "grinders" group dont even mind for because they dont care for us and our gamplay

PS: and btw who is more toxic then? normal playerd doing veteran endgame and/or pvp trying different solutions to improve their QoL while not breaking casuals/RP's immersions and gameplay or maybe those casuals/RP's which dont care abount anyone else who jsut have different opinion of having fun and also not trying different solutions to make everyone (or most happy) as for them its enough as they are happy so they dont care about rest

Tandor · December 2018

It's precisely because there are two different types of player - those for whom full development of alts is considered a time-wasting grind, and those for whom it is the whole purpose of playing multiple characters - that ZOS have balanced the game so well with some things like CPs, dye unlocks and collections being account-wide, and other things like lorebooks, skyshards and most achievements being character-specific. I think they've got the balance right, but they can never please all the players all of the time.

jainiadral · December 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

The problem is, there are two groups of people. The first group would like to see some stuff made less monotonous like sky shards, mount lessons. Because for us the goal is endgame. We want to go have fun in PvP or PvE at the higher levels and we don’t want to spend wasted hours grinding everything when we want to adapt a new class for endgame content. The other crowd enjoys the grind, reading every story line, gathering every lorebook many times over. Many are probably not too big into endgame stuff. But the problem with this crowd is they think it’s “lazy” to not want to spend your time repeating the same material over and over (although what could be physically lazier than sitting in front of a computer doing the same activity again and again?) And these people are vehemently against anyone else having to grind less. Why? I don’t know. Maybe because they attribute some sort of self worth from completing the same thing on ten different alts. But come in here and try to get the grind reduced so you can go enjoy your endgame more and these people will come out of the woodworks to yell at you, tell you your lazy and spit on you for wanting to skip the “challenge.” Also ZOS makes money from things like mount lessons so they won’t change it.

Well, not exactly. I'd add a third group that gets annoyed and frustrated by pointless grind, but also loves questing and exploration and story. *raises hand* I'll repeat story endlessly, but I get annoyed by having to grind out the equivalent of rep, of remembering to do tedious chores like horse training or researching in crafting. Those get in the way of my enjoyment. Sometimes in a big way. I don't care about endgame at all.

And I hate having gated story like the Mages' and Fighters' Guild lines that rely on how much grinding you've done in the interim. That was especially glaring on my magsorc, who I skipped Fighters' Guild until after I'd finished the main storyline. Grinding thousands of daedra before I could get my next story fix drove me nuts. Just ugh.

I don't give two you-know-whats about achievements unless there's a cool dye color attached and I can get it with minimal effort. Some of the grinds people seem attached to also have no skill required to finish them. How hard is it to ride to the horse trainer and fork over 250 gold? No skill's required beyond remembering to do it. Same with clicking on a skyshard. Why not make these account-wide? They're nothing but a time gate or a log-in gate.

And a fourth-- console players who don't have the easy-peasy way of dealing with skyshards and lorebooks. I don't find either of those grinds particularly galling, but I have some nifty add-ons that make it really simple to find everything. Getting lorebooks on a map takes me maybe half an hour of riding around on a fully-trained mount while I'm also pre-mapping wayshrines. You're not so lucky if you're on console. TBH, I think I'd be more aggravated than some of the posters I've read on this forum if I had to do this stuff without add-ons.

Tandor · December 2018

jainiadral wrote: »

You're not so lucky if you're on console. TBH, I think I'd be more aggravated than some of the posters I've read on this forum if I had to do this stuff without add-ons.

And yet some of us do this stuff perfectly happily on PC without a single addon installed.

TheInfernalRage · December 2018

I never had a problem with these. Sounds like someone is feeling entitled to make life easy in game. A big NO. If you can't understand that, you must be a noob.

Got everything done without these pesky complaints about the game. I have maxed out 14/15 characters atm (except one because I got caught with playing some games I bought a few years ago). And I also deleted around 5 maxed characters with level 10 mage guild, etc. etc.

tmbrinks · December 2018

Edziu wrote: »

show previous quotes

Vapirko wrote: »

The problem is, there are two groups of people. The first group would like to see some stuff made less monotonous like sky shards, mount lessons. Because for us the goal is endgame. We want to go have fun in PvP or PvE at the higher levels and we don’t want to spend wasted hours grinding everything when we want to adapt a new class for endgame content. The other crowd enjoys the grind, reading every story line, gathering every lorebook many times over. Many are probably not too big into endgame stuff. But the problem with this crowd is they think it’s “lazy” to not want to spend your time repeating the same material over and over (although what could be physically lazier than sitting in front of a computer doing the same activity again and again?) And these people are vehemently against anyone else having to grind less. Why? I don’t know. Maybe because they attribute some sort of self worth from completing the same thing on ten different alts. But come in here and try to get the grind reduced so you can go enjoy your endgame more and these people will come out of the woodworks to yell at you, tell you your lazy and spit on you for wanting to skip the “challenge.” Also ZOS makes money from things like mount lessons so they won’t change it.

this is the best explanation I have seen in single post about everything in this thread1

and this is sad how in these 2 groups which we have - pvp and end game players who just get really bored after grinding their new char just to get it in playabe state for their content so this grining for new toon is just taking away more from this game to finalli stop playing as its not fun to grind every this new char while playing single character also is jsut burning out this player after long time

and we - those players for harder content than just grinding every new alt we have many suggestions and arguments and compromises how ZOS could improwe our QoL to keep us in game for much longer so giving us more fun of playing this game while not breaking playability or immersion those who prefer this grind more - as our basic suggestion is just toggle option so we would be happy and grinders would be happy as they still can grind what they want

but unfortunately as I experienced in 95% of posts in thread like this - this 2nd group - so these who like repear grind on every new character because of their immersion - they are more selfish because they dont care about our feeling what we feel about their grind which we dont hate them for that as we understand and thats why we have many compromoses - for which unfortunately this "grinders" group dont even mind for because they dont care for us and our gamplay

PS: and btw who is more toxic then? normal playerd doing veteran endgame and/or pvp trying different solutions to improve their QoL while not breaking casuals/RP's immersions and gameplay or maybe those casuals/RP's which dont care abount anyone else who jsut have different opinion of having fun and also not trying different solutions to make everyone (or most happy) as for them its enough as they are happy so they dont care about rest

Yup, those of us who don't want to give handouts are "selfish" don't "care about your feelings" YOU ALREADY HAVE YOUR COMPROMISE... you have shared CP, shared bank space, shared dyes, etc... all that have been mentioned. But please, keep ignoring that.

A "toggle" is not a solution. I would be abused, it would still break the game, as multiple people have said and explained. But please, keep ignoring that.

You keep using the word "most" want this... at best it's split 50/50 here in the thread. (And statistics show that you are 20x more likely to report a complaint than being happy with something, so it's actually probably closer to 5% for 95% against) But I'm sure you'll come back and attack and berate me for this post, just like you do everybody else.

jainiadral · December 2018

Tandor wrote: »

show previous quotes

jainiadral wrote: »

You're not so lucky if you're on console. TBH, I think I'd be more aggravated than some of the posters I've read on this forum if I had to do this stuff without add-ons.

And yet some of us do this stuff perfectly happily on PC without a single addon installed.

Which is great for you. But it's not so great for people who don't enjoy this kind of thing.

Anyway, I'm not particularly advocating for anything one way or the other. Just that I can understand the frustration some players have. You won't catch me shedding any tears if some of these things are made account-wide instead of per character. I don't find horse training, research, or lorebook/skyshard hunting to add anything to my enjoyment or sense of accomplishment. That said, I don't mind them that much. Psijic Guild, Fighters' Guild and Undaunted can go take a long walk off a short cliff, however

Edziu · December 2018

tmbrinks wrote: »

show previous quotes

Edziu wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The problem is, there are two groups of people. The first group would like to see some stuff made less monotonous like sky shards, mount lessons. Because for us the goal is endgame. We want to go have fun in PvP or PvE at the higher levels and we don’t want to spend wasted hours grinding everything when we want to adapt a new class for endgame content. The other crowd enjoys the grind, reading every story line, gathering every lorebook many times over. Many are probably not too big into endgame stuff. But the problem with this crowd is they think it’s “lazy” to not want to spend your time repeating the same material over and over (although what could be physically lazier than sitting in front of a computer doing the same activity again and again?) And these people are vehemently against anyone else having to grind less. Why? I don’t know. Maybe because they attribute some sort of self worth from completing the same thing on ten different alts. But come in here and try to get the grind reduced so you can go enjoy your endgame more and these people will come out of the woodworks to yell at you, tell you your lazy and spit on you for wanting to skip the “challenge.” Also ZOS makes money from things like mount lessons so they won’t change it.

this is the best explanation I have seen in single post about everything in this thread1

and this is sad how in these 2 groups which we have - pvp and end game players who just get really bored after grinding their new char just to get it in playabe state for their content so this grining for new toon is just taking away more from this game to finalli stop playing as its not fun to grind every this new char while playing single character also is jsut burning out this player after long time

and we - those players for harder content than just grinding every new alt we have many suggestions and arguments and compromises how ZOS could improwe our QoL to keep us in game for much longer so giving us more fun of playing this game while not breaking playability or immersion those who prefer this grind more - as our basic suggestion is just toggle option so we would be happy and grinders would be happy as they still can grind what they want

but unfortunately as I experienced in 95% of posts in thread like this - this 2nd group - so these who like repear grind on every new character because of their immersion - they are more selfish because they dont care about our feeling what we feel about their grind which we dont hate them for that as we understand and thats why we have many compromoses - for which unfortunately this "grinders" group dont even mind for because they dont care for us and our gamplay

PS: and btw who is more toxic then? normal playerd doing veteran endgame and/or pvp trying different solutions to improve their QoL while not breaking casuals/RP's immersions and gameplay or maybe those casuals/RP's which dont care abount anyone else who jsut have different opinion of having fun and also not trying different solutions to make everyone (or most happy) as for them its enough as they are happy so they dont care about rest

Yup, those of us who don't want to give handouts are "selfish" don't "care about your feelings" YOU ALREADY HAVE YOUR COMPROMISE... you have shared CP, shared bank space, shared dyes, etc... all that have been mentioned. But please, keep ignoring that.

A "toggle" is not a solution. I would be abused, it would still break the game, as multiple people have said and explained. But please, keep ignoring that.

You keep using the word "most" want this... at best it's split 50/50 here in the thread. (And statistics show that you are 20x more likely to report a complaint than being happy with something, so it's actually probably closer to 5% for 95% against) But I'm sure you'll come back and attack and berate me for this post, just like you do everybody else.

well when I write "most" as for group of people I mean most of those who just dont care for your thing, maybe I wrote this badly? idk so I explained this

and about cp sharad ahahaha xD

may I quote you how mainly you are defending everything to stay character bound as it is bug if we got to CP which well..at all I would have no problem as playing mainly 1 character because of game work for alts...I proposed CP to be character bound as troll and yer here I got you and just you cried how you dont want cp character bound xD as someone else named this "irony" which it is

shared bank space is basic for almost every "online" game, not only as mmo.
and dyes, motifs to outfit etc also in many games is account unlocked

and how toggle option wold be abused? we have explained many more times with many different arguments how it could work to not break even anything in this game but you always comming with always only and same even not changed argument which is bad argument on background of our many different arguments/suggestions how it could work

and here you really seem selfish about this as how you care about your character progression while we dont care as our character progression depends on veteran endgame where single exploration of world is enough for us to be able to complete all of this endgem which we have discovered once

and small reminder of your irony how fine you are with everything grindly we have character bound but you are agains CP for this as this is also "character progression" even more breaking game at strat than some more of skillpoins with not to mention as our character which we play is getting these CP and then these CP are used on freshly created character with no any exp and any skills onlocked yet, nor leveld and we have on him cap CP from nowhere...DAT LOGIC!

Ackadian · December 2018

Man...I swear everytime I see that profile pic I already know it's "that person" again...why do you complain so much? I swear everyday there's like a new thread of yours whining about something.I could swear you were the same woman who thought her dungeon group kicked her for being female a few weeks ago. If you dislike the game so much why do you keep playing it and trying to drag others down your hate hole as well? Let it go already.

tmbrinks · December 2018

Edziu wrote: »

show previous quotes

tmbrinks wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The problem is, there are two groups of people. The first group would like to see some stuff made less monotonous like sky shards, mount lessons. Because for us the goal is endgame. We want to go have fun in PvP or PvE at the higher levels and we don’t want to spend wasted hours grinding everything when we want to adapt a new class for endgame content. The other crowd enjoys the grind, reading every story line, gathering every lorebook many times over. Many are probably not too big into endgame stuff. But the problem with this crowd is they think it’s “lazy” to not want to spend your time repeating the same material over and over (although what could be physically lazier than sitting in front of a computer doing the same activity again and again?) And these people are vehemently against anyone else having to grind less. Why? I don’t know. Maybe because they attribute some sort of self worth from completing the same thing on ten different alts. But come in here and try to get the grind reduced so you can go enjoy your endgame more and these people will come out of the woodworks to yell at you, tell you your lazy and spit on you for wanting to skip the “challenge.” Also ZOS makes money from things like mount lessons so they won’t change it.

this is the best explanation I have seen in single post about everything in this thread1

and this is sad how in these 2 groups which we have - pvp and end game players who just get really bored after grinding their new char just to get it in playabe state for their content so this grining for new toon is just taking away more from this game to finalli stop playing as its not fun to grind every this new char while playing single character also is jsut burning out this player after long time

and we - those players for harder content than just grinding every new alt we have many suggestions and arguments and compromises how ZOS could improwe our QoL to keep us in game for much longer so giving us more fun of playing this game while not breaking playability or immersion those who prefer this grind more - as our basic suggestion is just toggle option so we would be happy and grinders would be happy as they still can grind what they want

but unfortunately as I experienced in 95% of posts in thread like this - this 2nd group - so these who like repear grind on every new character because of their immersion - they are more selfish because they dont care about our feeling what we feel about their grind which we dont hate them for that as we understand and thats why we have many compromoses - for which unfortunately this "grinders" group dont even mind for because they dont care for us and our gamplay

PS: and btw who is more toxic then? normal playerd doing veteran endgame and/or pvp trying different solutions to improve their QoL while not breaking casuals/RP's immersions and gameplay or maybe those casuals/RP's which dont care abount anyone else who jsut have different opinion of having fun and also not trying different solutions to make everyone (or most happy) as for them its enough as they are happy so they dont care about rest

Yup, those of us who don't want to give handouts are "selfish" don't "care about your feelings" YOU ALREADY HAVE YOUR COMPROMISE... you have shared CP, shared bank space, shared dyes, etc... all that have been mentioned. But please, keep ignoring that.

A "toggle" is not a solution. I would be abused, it would still break the game, as multiple people have said and explained. But please, keep ignoring that.

You keep using the word "most" want this... at best it's split 50/50 here in the thread. (And statistics show that you are 20x more likely to report a complaint than being happy with something, so it's actually probably closer to 5% for 95% against) But I'm sure you'll come back and attack and berate me for this post, just like you do everybody else.

well when I write "most" as for group of people I mean most of those who just dont care for your thing, maybe I wrote this badly? idk so I explained this

and about cp sharad ahahaha xD

may I quote you how mainly you are defending everything to stay character bound as it is bug if we got to CP which well..at all I would have no problem as playing mainly 1 character because of game work for alts...I proposed CP to be character bound as troll and yer here I got you and just you cried how you dont want cp character bound xD as someone else named this "irony" which it is

shared bank space is basic for almost every "online" game, not only as mmo.
and dyes, motifs to outfit etc also in many games is account unlocked

and how toggle option wold be abused? we have explained many more times with many different arguments how it could work to not break even anything in this game but you always comming with always only and same even not changed argument which is bad argument on background of our many different arguments/suggestions how it could work

and here you really seem selfish about this as how you care about your character progression while we dont care as our character progression depends on veteran endgame where single exploration of world is enough for us to be able to complete all of this endgem which we have discovered once

and small reminder of your irony how fine you are with everything grindly we have character bound but you are agains CP for this as this is also "character progression" even more breaking game at strat than some more of skillpoins with not to mention as our character which we play is getting these CP and then these CP are used on freshly created character with no any exp and any skills onlocked yet, nor leveld and we have on him cap CP from nowhere...DAT LOGIC!

Please quote me where I "cried" about CP being character bound? You don't even read what I write. I am happy with the current compromise of having CP account (along with bank space, gear etc) but some things that are character (like skill lines, skill points, research, and horse training)

You are the one asking for a change, yet you have provided minimal "support" for you claim, other than gimme gimme!

I understand English isn't your first language, but if you're not going to actually read what I have said, why should I even listen to you?

You said "may I quote you" without actually quoting me... you're rich, thanks for putting words into my mouth! My favorite thing in the world is when people lie about what I say.

Simply put. You are a troll, you are purposefully enraging people by taking what they say out of context, by lying about what they have said, and attacking them when their opinion does not match what yours is. Simply put, you are a bully. There is a reason that no ZoS moderator has commented on any of these threads, because the ideas are non-starters; they (along with dozens who have said the same thing, know that it would impact the game in a negative way). In all the time you spend bitching here on the forums about this, you could have actually collected some skill points on your characters, and this whole thing would be a moot point.

But carry on. You do you. Chances are you'll "quit" the game again, it won't miss you. I'm not going to bother anymore. I have trials to clear on my fully leveled, fully geared alt characters.

Edziu · December 2018

tmbrinks wrote: »

show previous quotes

Edziu wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

The problem is, there are two groups of people. The first group would like to see some stuff made less monotonous like sky shards, mount lessons. Because for us the goal is endgame. We want to go have fun in PvP or PvE at the higher levels and we don’t want to spend wasted hours grinding everything when we want to adapt a new class for endgame content. The other crowd enjoys the grind, reading every story line, gathering every lorebook many times over. Many are probably not too big into endgame stuff. But the problem with this crowd is they think it’s “lazy” to not want to spend your time repeating the same material over and over (although what could be physically lazier than sitting in front of a computer doing the same activity again and again?) And these people are vehemently against anyone else having to grind less. Why? I don’t know. Maybe because they attribute some sort of self worth from completing the same thing on ten different alts. But come in here and try to get the grind reduced so you can go enjoy your endgame more and these people will come out of the woodworks to yell at you, tell you your lazy and spit on you for wanting to skip the “challenge.” Also ZOS makes money from things like mount lessons so they won’t change it.

this is the best explanation I have seen in single post about everything in this thread1

and this is sad how in these 2 groups which we have - pvp and end game players who just get really bored after grinding their new char just to get it in playabe state for their content so this grining for new toon is just taking away more from this game to finalli stop playing as its not fun to grind every this new char while playing single character also is jsut burning out this player after long time

and we - those players for harder content than just grinding every new alt we have many suggestions and arguments and compromises how ZOS could improwe our QoL to keep us in game for much longer so giving us more fun of playing this game while not breaking playability or immersion those who prefer this grind more - as our basic suggestion is just toggle option so we would be happy and grinders would be happy as they still can grind what they want

but unfortunately as I experienced in 95% of posts in thread like this - this 2nd group - so these who like repear grind on every new character because of their immersion - they are more selfish because they dont care about our feeling what we feel about their grind which we dont hate them for that as we understand and thats why we have many compromoses - for which unfortunately this "grinders" group dont even mind for because they dont care for us and our gamplay

PS: and btw who is more toxic then? normal playerd doing veteran endgame and/or pvp trying different solutions to improve their QoL while not breaking casuals/RP's immersions and gameplay or maybe those casuals/RP's which dont care abount anyone else who jsut have different opinion of having fun and also not trying different solutions to make everyone (or most happy) as for them its enough as they are happy so they dont care about rest

Yup, those of us who don't want to give handouts are "selfish" don't "care about your feelings" YOU ALREADY HAVE YOUR COMPROMISE... you have shared CP, shared bank space, shared dyes, etc... all that have been mentioned. But please, keep ignoring that.

A "toggle" is not a solution. I would be abused, it would still break the game, as multiple people have said and explained. But please, keep ignoring that.

You keep using the word "most" want this... at best it's split 50/50 here in the thread. (And statistics show that you are 20x more likely to report a complaint than being happy with something, so it's actually probably closer to 5% for 95% against) But I'm sure you'll come back and attack and berate me for this post, just like you do everybody else.

well when I write "most" as for group of people I mean most of those who just dont care for your thing, maybe I wrote this badly? idk so I explained this

and about cp sharad ahahaha xD

may I quote you how mainly you are defending everything to stay character bound as it is bug if we got to CP which well..at all I would have no problem as playing mainly 1 character because of game work for alts...I proposed CP to be character bound as troll and yer here I got you and just you cried how you dont want cp character bound xD as someone else named this "irony" which it is

shared bank space is basic for almost every "online" game, not only as mmo.
and dyes, motifs to outfit etc also in many games is account unlocked

and how toggle option wold be abused? we have explained many more times with many different arguments how it could work to not break even anything in this game but you always comming with always only and same even not changed argument which is bad argument on background of our many different arguments/suggestions how it could work

and here you really seem selfish about this as how you care about your character progression while we dont care as our character progression depends on veteran endgame where single exploration of world is enough for us to be able to complete all of this endgem which we have discovered once

and small reminder of your irony how fine you are with everything grindly we have character bound but you are agains CP for this as this is also "character progression" even more breaking game at strat than some more of skillpoins with not to mention as our character which we play is getting these CP and then these CP are used on freshly created character with no any exp and any skills onlocked yet, nor leveld and we have on him cap CP from nowhere...DAT LOGIC!

Please quote me where I "cried" about CP being character bound? You don't even read what I write. I am happy with the current compromise of having CP account (along with bank space, gear etc) but some things that are character (like skill lines, skill points, research, and horse training)

You are the one asking for a change, yet you have provided minimal "support" for you claim, other than gimme gimme!

I understand English isn't your first language, but if you're not going to actually read what I have said, why should I even listen to you?

You said "may I quote you" without actually quoting me... you're rich, thanks for putting words into my mouth! My favorite thing in the world is when people lie about what I say.

Simply put. You are a troll, you are purposefully enraging people by taking what they say out of context, by lying about what they have said, and attacking them when their opinion does not match what yours is. Simply put, you are a bully. There is a reason that no ZoS moderator has commented on any of these threads, because the ideas are non-starters; they (along with dozens who have said the same thing, know that it would impact the game in a negative way). In all the time you spend bitching here on the forums about this, you could have actually collected some skill points on your characters, and this whole thing would be a moot point.

But carry on. You do you. Chances are you'll "quit" the game again, it won't miss you. I'm not going to bother anymore. I have trials to clear on my fully leveled, fully geared alt characters.

ok sorry, that was my bad as I decided to quote you for this...I should instead write how I have seen your post so yo this I will summon someone's post well defined to you

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5654627/#Comment_5654627

Spoiler

Fleshreaper wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

oooh boy! more logical fallacies and incoherent statements!

For those who don't understand, this is a troll thread, because their ideas in several other threads were roundly dismissed and disproved by literally hundreds of different people. So they are making the "opposite" argument in such an absurd way as to try and show that the other side is wrong/masochistic/etc...

Well, HAHAHAHA. "Roundly dismissed and disproved" That's a joke, right? Oh, you're serious? Well, hate to tell you, your opinion is not fact, it is just that, YOUR opinion. You say things should be based solely on character completion and then you turn right around and say, no, to character bound CP because it's too hard. So, in fact you think if something is okay for you to grind then everyone else should be okay with it. So, who is really the hypocrite?

and no, to thread like this Im not troll or bully...the thing is that I cant perfectly translate to english what I mean so this can mislead people

simply put - I understand my fail as sometimes I would write to fast somethning from my mind instead of see again for sure as I wanted reply to fast for which Im sorry

and another simply...I know as I see you are player from this group which like to repeat and repeat same content on different chars, ok, this is what is fun for you but for many in this game more fun have true endgame/group content where we dont care for content you like - exploration, quest etc which we even cant skip because without this our characters are not vable for vet content
and where we try to fit player like you, we think about solutions to not hurt your game whiel improve our QoL you always say no with not changed argument because as if it wil be change only for us who want this and even not visible cange for players like you - you still say no because you want everyone other to go through same content as you and you want players to be forced to be happy for doing it before they can go with their new alt and to do content which really is enjoyable for them

AishavariStarling · December 2018

Ackadian wrote: »

Man...I swear everytime I see that profile pic I already know it's "that person" again...why do you complain so much? I swear everyday there's like a new thread of yours whining about something.I could swear you were the same woman who thought her dungeon group kicked her for being female a few weeks ago. If you dislike the game so much why do you keep playing it and trying to drag others down your hate hole as well? Let it go already.

I havent talked here much at all and I'm usually fairly clear minded. I don't ever have issues with groups either so, I dont know what you're on about. This is a very obscure and far fetched post I didnt expect to receive much if any attention for.

Sylvermynx · December 2018

AishavariStarling wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ackadian wrote: »

Man...I swear everytime I see that profile pic I already know it's "that person" again...why do you complain so much? I swear everyday there's like a new thread of yours whining about something.I could swear you were the same woman who thought her dungeon group kicked her for being female a few weeks ago. If you dislike the game so much why do you keep playing it and trying to drag others down your hate hole as well? Let it go already.

I havent talked here much at all and I'm usually fairly clear minded. I don't ever have issues with groups either so, I dont know what you're on about. This is a very obscure and far fetched post I didnt expect to receive much if any attention for.

Eh, if s/he didn't quote the relevant poster, don't assume it's you.

MilwaukeeScott · December 2018

No

AishavariStarling · December 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

show previous quotes

AishavariStarling wrote: »

Ackadian wrote: »

Man...I swear everytime I see that profile pic I already know it's "that person" again...why do you complain so much? I swear everyday there's like a new thread of yours whining about something.I could swear you were the same woman who thought her dungeon group kicked her for being female a few weeks ago. If you dislike the game so much why do you keep playing it and trying to drag others down your hate hole as well? Let it go already.

I havent talked here much at all and I'm usually fairly clear minded. I don't ever have issues with groups either so, I dont know what you're on about. This is a very obscure and far fetched post I didnt expect to receive much if any attention for.

Eh, if s/he didn't quote the relevant poster, don't assume it's you.

Pfft, true..just when theres no quote and no idea whats going on in my post and I'm the OP I just assume most anything can and will be directed at me.

Sylvermynx · December 2018

AishavariStarling wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sylvermynx wrote: »

AishavariStarling wrote: »

Ackadian wrote: »

Man...I swear everytime I see that profile pic I already know it's "that person" again...why do you complain so much? I swear everyday there's like a new thread of yours whining about something.I could swear you were the same woman who thought her dungeon group kicked her for being female a few weeks ago. If you dislike the game so much why do you keep playing it and trying to drag others down your hate hole as well? Let it go already.

I havent talked here much at all and I'm usually fairly clear minded. I don't ever have issues with groups either so, I dont know what you're on about. This is a very obscure and far fetched post I didnt expect to receive much if any attention for.

Eh, if s/he didn't quote the relevant poster, don't assume it's you.

Pfft, true..just when theres no quote and no idea whats going on in my post and I'm the OP I just assume most anything can and will be directed at me.

Yeah, I know how it works. But hey - let's assume it's NOT you, and Happy Holidays, okay?

AishavariStarling · December 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

show previous quotes

AishavariStarling wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

AishavariStarling wrote: »

Ackadian wrote: »

Man...I swear everytime I see that profile pic I already know it's "that person" again...why do you complain so much? I swear everyday there's like a new thread of yours whining about something.I could swear you were the same woman who thought her dungeon group kicked her for being female a few weeks ago. If you dislike the game so much why do you keep playing it and trying to drag others down your hate hole as well? Let it go already.

I havent talked here much at all and I'm usually fairly clear minded. I don't ever have issues with groups either so, I dont know what you're on about. This is a very obscure and far fetched post I didnt expect to receive much if any attention for.

Eh, if s/he didn't quote the relevant poster, don't assume it's you.

Pfft, true..just when theres no quote and no idea whats going on in my post and I'm the OP I just assume most anything can and will be directed at me.

Yeah, I know how it works. But hey - let's assume it's NOT you, and Happy Holidays, okay?

Happy Holidays to you.

Kikke · December 2018

No. I have one main I play. Still got alts for diffrent classes / builds, but once this alt has leveld to 50 it has fighters guild and mages guild done, and enough skill points for the playstyle I wanted out of it. Why would it need all of the 340 skill points my main has? O_o

And for achievements, my main got 28k achiv points. All my skins and costmetics can be used by my alts so see no point here. Just people that want high achivement numbers without all the hard work....

Currencies and potions etc account wide... Do you mean; place it in the bank so all my characters can grab it from the banker pet?

SkysOutThizeOut · December 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

The problem is, there are two groups of people. The first group would like to see some stuff made less monotonous like sky shards, mount lessons. Because for us the goal is endgame. We want to go have fun in PvP or PvE at the higher levels and we don’t want to spend wasted hours grinding everything when we want to adapt a new class for endgame content. The other crowd enjoys the grind, reading every story line, gathering every lorebook many times over. Many are probably not too big into endgame stuff. But the problem with this crowd is they think it’s “lazy” to not want to spend your time repeating the same material over and over (although what could be physically lazier than sitting in front of a computer doing the same activity again and again?) And these people are vehemently against anyone else having to grind less. Why? I don’t know. Maybe because they attribute some sort of self worth from completing the same thing on ten different alts. But come in here and try to get the grind reduced so you can go enjoy your endgame more and these people will come out of the woodworks to yell at you, tell you your lazy and spit on you for wanting to skip the “challenge.” Also ZOS makes money from things like mount lessons so they won’t change it.

@Vapirko thank you for this. Some people have demanding lives, full of responsibility, and excruciatingly small amounts of alone/down time for long periods of a time and the last thing these individuals want to do is spend that free time grinding the same thing for the 10th... just to play endgame content. And I love how you explained we are opposed by a group of people with zero/minimal obligation or responsibility that derives “self worth” from the grind... great observation.

MythrialDrow · December 2018

Yes, I’m sick of trying to get skill points for my new characters. That’s why I don’t buy anymore character slots. I’m not spending weeks/months just to get my skills up for each additional character. I’ve spent 3 years getting all skill points apart from pvp cyrodiil. I’m certainly not doing it for everyone.

Elsonso · December 2018

.

MythrialDrow wrote: »

Yes, I’m sick of trying to get skill points for my new characters. That’s why I don’t buy anymore character slots. I’m not spending weeks/months just to get my skills up for each additional character. I’ve spent 3 years getting all skill points apart from pvp cyrodiil. I’m certainly not doing it for everyone.

I don't put a priority on getting skill points, but I do it, eventually. I don't think I actually have a character that has all of them, yet. I'd have to go look.

wolfie1.0. · December 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tandor wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Well mmo=grind.

The skill points are a part of the progression of a character. If they were available to every character after your first, you'd have way too many options for skills/passives at lvl 1 compared to a brand new player at lvl 1. They are completely different than achievements, not the same at all. Now if you only wanted the "skyshard Hunter" achievement be account wide, or the locations revealed on the map, ok. You should still need to go to them to get the bonus skill points.

Now you may say "but CP gives way more advantage than skill points at a low level" and you'd be correct. I'd rather that CP stays account wide but only unlocks at level 50.

Zos thought of this for pvp though, and that's why CP is disabled in the under 50 campaigns. They know that against other players without CP, a max CP level 10 could wreck them. This is also a reason why some skill points are locked behind the skyshards. If a player wants to twink in under 50 cyro they at least have to put in a little effort to get those skill points.

The fact that I can craft gold armor, weapons and jewelry for my new level 10 and know a little bit about ESO pvp already puts me in a position to dominate a completely new player to pvp.

Now you might say, "but what about pve players, I hate cyro, would never set foot there!" but the fact is ESO doesn't separate skills, sets or hardly anything beyond battlespirit, between pvp and pve.
We all know what happens to one happens to the other.

The tl:dr version; it would adversely effect brand new players in both pvp and pve therefore shouldn't happen.

Then mount training, guilds and skyshars ect could just unlock at 50, making you have no advantage over newer players but not forcing people to grind for something they have already worked for.

I don't enjoy pve on this game. I play it for the pvp, so being forced to grind something I hate just to be able to play the thing I actually want is quite annoying. After you have done the grind once I just think it should be optional to skip it...

I understand your frustration, but why should someone who's only here for the PvP be able to change the way PvE operates? How you would feel about it if I as a PvEer started demanding gameplay changes in order to dumb down PvP?

That's why I said make it optional, or something. I mean I'm ok playing my char, I have fun with the game when it's not lagging too bad, but it would be nice to be able to play other characters. I just don't think being able to skip some skyshards and guilds would be a big deal, especially since I have already grinded it all on my main char.

My question to you is how exactly are you leveling your alternative characters up to level 50? are you doing skyreach/dolmen runs? Are you doing random normals? what is your method?

I ask because i wonder how people can stand doing the same 3 Dolmens or the same dungeon over and over for hours, yet not stand to run skyshards? Quite honestly i find that the problem I see here is that Players are choosing the most efficient ways to get their characters to LVL 50 over the most efficient way to get their character PVE and/or PVP ready. To be perfectly honest that way is not to continuously grind Dolmens/skyreach.