Templars PvP - Detailed Guide, Suggestions, Advice, etc. - Elsweyr

Datolite

Anyone else find that going up against 1vx stam builds as a melee magplar is kind of a lost cause? Especially in CP IC lately, wardens and DKs usually. Even with the highest possible pen, damage and dot build I can't seem to put a dent in them, and the damage they do is insane for how tanky they are and never run out of heals. Add a proc set to the mix for constant pressure and I really feel like I don't stand a chance anymore.

Any tips on turning the tables on them or are melee magplars just not up to the task?

techyeshic

Datolite wrote: »

Anyone else find that going up against 1vx stam builds as a melee magplar is kind of a lost cause? Especially in CP IC lately, wardens and DKs usually. Even with the highest possible pen, damage and dot build I can't seem to put a dent in them, and the damage they do is insane for how tanky they are and never run out of heals. Add a proc set to the mix for constant pressure and I really feel like I don't stand a chance anymore.

Any tips on turning the tables on them or are melee magplars just not up to the task?

Turning the tables sounds like the common issue of templar not getting off the back foot as there is no real defense other than Extended Ritual (and every bad effect just gets applied again) and living dark feels neutered and sorry stamplars as both of those are expensive as hell. Really need to disengage to reset and then come back at an advantage where you have them pressured and good luck on that with the tanky proc meta now. Even that has a problem as templar does not have anything innate for escape, either. I like to run full swift, wild hunt and steed myself along with mist form and that can do it but they will be reset as well.

I mean really; the answer is to not play as a templar, but build around procs, stack health, run mist form forever, and join the meta, or accept you are only going to win if you are significantly better than who you are fighting, and cling to the hope that one day this meta will end, and you will have payback,

StarOfElyon

Datolite wrote: »

Anyone else find that going up against 1vx stam builds as a melee magplar is kind of a lost cause? Especially in CP IC lately, wardens and DKs usually. Even with the highest possible pen, damage and dot build I can't seem to put a dent i them, and the damage they do is insane for how tanky they are and never run out of heals. Add a proc set to the mix for constant pressure and I really feel like I don't stand a chance anymore.

Any tips on turning the tables on them or are melee magplars just not up to the task?

Unless you're using proc sets, it's not happening. Stam is tankier and burstier. If they know what they're doing, they won't let you get off your back bar.

Datolite

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Datolite wrote: »

Anyone else find that going up against 1vx stam builds as a melee magplar is kind of a lost cause? Especially in CP IC lately, wardens and DKs usually. Even with the highest possible pen, damage and dot build I can't seem to put a dent i them, and the damage they do is insane for how tanky they are and never run out of heals. Add a proc set to the mix for constant pressure and I really feel like I don't stand a chance anymore.

Any tips on turning the tables on them or are melee magplars just not up to the task?

Unless you're using proc sets, it's not happening. Stam is tankier and burstier. If they know what they're doing, they won't let you get off your back bar.

I have actually. The Zaan/Vateshran combo is unreliable and gimmicky and no good in 1vX. The Overwhelming/Grothdaar combo is ok until they realize they just have to step out of the AoE and good luck catching up with that broken charge. We get static AoE they can avoid and stam classes get Syvarra's Scales where the poison dot is applied to enemies and sticks. Maelstrom 2H bleeds for days. My best combos bounce off off fully shielded sorcs and tanky wardens/DKs. Tried rapid regen but it doesn't solve the backbar purge issue. I really feel like I'm fighting a losing battle lately.

Time to roll stam warden. Any good build links? The proccier the better.

VirtualElizabeth

When I played back in 2019, I felt really good about my MagPlar. Now in 2021 I feel like a wet noodle hitting a brick wall. I love my magplar but like @Datolite time for me to look into a stam warden or Necr - Bow Build preferably.

maxjapank

Datolite wrote: »

The Overwhelming/Grothdaar combo is ok until they realize they just have to step out of the AoE and good luck catching up with that broken charge.

I have never liked Overwhelming. Always felt Auroran was a better set. But anyways...as for catching up, I actually think that Wild Hunt is a solid option for Templars. If you're using Puncturing Sweep, our downside has always been the snare that our own channel causes us. And it is hard to hit that last hit causing them to snare. Wild Hunt (and leave the 7% speed on there, too) is quite nice. Just a suggestion.

EtTuBrutus

Slot an ice masters staff and you’ll be able to combat stamina, and magician, easier.

Rhaegar75

the problem with magplars is that even the proc sets are not that great or fully tailored....take a MagDen and all its' Ice crapsets...Icy/winterborn/ice furnace etc. They seem made for them.
MagDK has also more options that fit for them and let's not bother talking about necros and their natural born tankiness!!

What proc sets truly for MagPlars then?

Firstmep

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Don't go Vamp. Proc sets or go home. if proc sets remain this powerful in the next patch, I'm done. I can't do another year of this. I literally can't do it.

I mean mist and blood scion are so strong, those 2 alone already make it worth to go vamp.
And you can run triple cost reduce glyphs and strike from. The shadows passive will even offset some of the spell dmg lost.
Vamp, heavy armor, procs is pretty much the magplar meta atm.

Rhaegar75

Firstmep wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Don't go Vamp. Proc sets or go home. if proc sets remain this powerful in the next patch, I'm done. I can't do another year of this. I literally can't do it.

I mean mist and blood scion are so strong, those 2 alone already make it worth to go vamp.
And you can run triple cost reduce glyphs and strike from. The shadows passive will even offset some of the spell dmg lost.
Vamp, heavy armor, procs is pretty much the magplar meta atm.

I agree but, in comparison to other classes, can you find any Proc that fits well with Magplar? I'm not excepting the type of synergy Magden can get with ice based sets but ......

Firstmep

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Don't go Vamp. Proc sets or go home. if proc sets remain this powerful in the next patch, I'm done. I can't do another year of this. I literally can't do it.

I mean mist and blood scion are so strong, those 2 alone already make it worth to go vamp.
And you can run triple cost reduce glyphs and strike from. The shadows passive will even offset some of the spell dmg lost.
Vamp, heavy armor, procs is pretty much the magplar meta atm.

I agree but, in comparison to other classes, can you find any Proc that fits well with Magplar? I'm not excepting the type of synergy Magden can get with ice based sets but ......

Hmm, the obvious vate destro aside.
There are few, like overwhelming and grothdaar for extra aoe dmg, which fits well onto the average melee magplar gameplay.
Brp destro is another all rounder, I know some ppl run zaan, with toppling charge it's easy to stick to targets to keep it going.
Magplars don't get any %dmg modifiers, but it's very much a pressure class, so any sets that help with that can be good, like the ones I listed above.
These passive dot procs also allow you to keep some of your offensive power, even when stuck on the backbar.
Swarming scion is a great way to turn any fight around, since you get a healthy boost to stats and a ton of healing from it, including a full heal, which you can use to lure people in.
Mist form almost feels like a necessity at this point and it synergies really well with rune focus.

VirtualElizabeth

I like @Firstmep suggestions. I have one question about DOTs. I was watching a streamer and he started putting down a player who killed him with DOTS saying basically "Dots are for bad players". What's wrong with Dots?

Udrath

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

the problem with magplars is that even the proc sets are not that great or fully tailored....take a MagDen and all its' Ice crapsets...Icy/winterborn/ice furnace etc. They seem made for them.
MagDK has also more options that fit for them and let's not bother talking about necros and their natural born tankiness!!

What proc sets truly for MagPlars then?

Crest of cyrodiil
Light of cyrodiil
Draugrs heritage
Auroran thunder
Mechanical acuity
Grace of gloom

Not terrible but not great. I’m theorycrafting...

Back bar one of these defensive sets, front bar one of the offensive ones. Use malacath and skoria/zaan/grothdaar/balrogh...idk anymore

Firstmep

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I like @Firstmep suggestions. I have one question about DOTs. I was watching a streamer and he started putting down a player who killed him with DOTS saying basically "Dots are for bad players". What's wrong with Dots?

Dots deal damage independently from the initial player input, but there is nothing wrong with them, dot proc sets, especially from multiple players can be very difficult to deal with, so some amount of salt is warranted.
Thing is Magplars don't really have strong burst combos, crescent sweep after the cast time was added is a it wonky for example.
And dark flare is getting a pretty big dmg reduction next patch, so that's another nail in thee coffin for that playstyle.

dcmgti

I know they are lowering the cast time of dark flare but that nerf is going to hurt an already weak class. It would be nice if dark flare could be something similar to sorc frags. I know they say its to keep flare in line with snipe but snipe hits harder, can be used almost completely from NB stealth and also desyncs. The desync is what people have a problem with. Not many templars use dark flare. I use it sometimes when I go full pen/crit glass cannon mode, but without have NB type stealth its very easy to get caught in the open. With the nerf to crit, dark flare and light armor getting even weaker maybe I should just stack 45k health with crimson and battalion defender on my magplar....lol.

PL/PotL both pretty much useless in pvp now. Magplar sweeps hit like a wet noodle and the animation is off ever since the "adjustment", Crescent is one of the weakest damage ults around. Nova can be nice in coordinated group play against other groups. Really the only thing we have going for us is extended ritual.

My stamplar on the other hand hits like a truck in medium but good luck surviving any decent burst from anyone.

Rhaegar75

Udrath wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Not terrible but not great. I’m theorycrafting...

exactly my point!! I struggle to find a good fit. I may even give Oblivion Foe Heavy a go

Kartalin

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

the problem with magplars is that even the proc sets are not that great or fully tailored....take a MagDen and all its' Ice crapsets...Icy/winterborn/ice furnace etc. They seem made for them.
MagDK has also more options that fit for them and let's not bother talking about necros and their natural born tankiness!!

What proc sets truly for MagPlars then?

Soulshine? Not saying it’s a great option, but it has magplar written all over it

techyeshic

Kartalin wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

the problem with magplars is that even the proc sets are not that great or fully tailored....take a MagDen and all its' Ice crapsets...Icy/winterborn/ice furnace etc. They seem made for them.
MagDK has also more options that fit for them and let's not bother talking about necros and their natural born tankiness!!

What proc sets truly for MagPlars then?

Soulshine? Not saying it’s a great option, but it has magplar written all over it

They're talking meta. Stat sets are not meta right now, and you only gimp yourself worse by running a class not called Warden.

Datolite

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

the problem with magplars is that even the proc sets are not that great or fully tailored....take a MagDen and all its' Ice crapsets...Icy/winterborn/ice furnace etc. They seem made for them.
MagDK has also more options that fit for them and let's not bother talking about necros and their natural born tankiness!!

What proc sets truly for MagPlars then?

Auroran was designed with charge and sweeps in mind, considering it's the exact same cone AoE. It's not a bad set but definitely not one of the best. It's easy to avoid.

FirmamentOfStars

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I like @Firstmep suggestions. I have one question about DOTs. I was watching a streamer and he started putting down a player who killed him with DOTS saying basically "Dots are for bad players". What's wrong with Dots?

@VirtualElizabeth
What streamer was it? Was he salty, because he lost? Or did the enemy only rely on dot proc sets?

There is nothing wrong using dot abilities though. Dots were nerfed quite a bit so many people dont think its worth to slot them, but its not wrong to use them on classes with less burst potential. On specific classes like dk dots for example can be very oppressive with the right build.

StarOfElyon

With no changes to the armor penalties and bonuses, I will say that it looks like it's finally time for me to drop light armor and put my magplar in at least 3 heavy. I just don't see how it's going to work anymore in light armor.

techyeshic

Lol it feels like they are making stat sets harder to use. Seventh, as an example; now procs only when in combat. We're people ganking with this set or what? You supposed to hold your armor buff until you're getting hit? What's the logic here?

ealdwin

techyeshic wrote: »

Lol it feels like they are making stat sets harder to use. Seventh, as an example; now procs only when in combat. We're people ganking with this set or what? You supposed to hold your armor buff until you're getting hit? What's the logic here?

Not to shift the conversation too far from Templar PVP, but yeah, a few of the set changes they listed were a tad confusing. Elf Bane was the one in particular (not that I'd be using it on my Magplar unless I really wanted to pump power into Vampire's Bane) that made me scratch my head. Maybe I'm just not well versed enough on the methodology of pre-combat buffing through set changes, but what would it matter if Elf Bane worked in but not out of combat?

Kartalin

The reason Clever Alchemist was changed to be activated in-combat only was because some gankers/bombers were proccing it, gear-swapping (via an add-on), and then entering combat with essentially 3 five piece set buffs. Maybe some people were doing the same with Seventh Legion as well? It shouldn't affect a typical Stamplar build with Seventh, though you will need to make sure to buff while in combat rather than immediately prior.
.

techyeshic

Kartalin wrote: »

The reason Clever Alchemist was changed to be activated in-combat only was because some gankers/bombers were proccing it, gear-swapping (via an add-on), and then entering combat with essentially 3 five piece set buffs. Maybe some people were doing the same with Seventh Legion as well? It shouldn't affect a typical Stamplar build with Seventh, though you will need to make sure to buff while in combat rather than immediately prior.
.

I was going to say "but NBs major resolve buff is passive and does not work on Seventh" but then I realized; Mirage could activate it.

Rhaegar75

The new patch is the best chance to resurrect the best Plar discussion in the forum. A very simple question/reflection....what are you using on your plars?

With my magplar I'm still using malacath+Trickery+Sthun...I'd like to try the new mythic head next.

On my stamplar...dunno really: any thought?

StarOfElyon

Heartland Conquerer is my new favorite. I put that **** on everything.

jerj6925

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

The new patch is the best chance to resurrect the best Plar discussion in the forum. A very simple question/reflection....what are you using on your plars?

With my magplar I'm still using malacath+Trickery+Sthun...I'd like to try the new mythic head next.

On my stamplar...dunno really: any thought?

I just got the Gaze of sithis last night and I think its really been helping to keep my magplar alive. I am running spinners jewelry with weapons for the 5 set and Stunns with one monster shoulder for either more spell pen or defense..

this has been helping to keep him alive so he is not destroyed so fast but I really don't have any killing power other than the Jesus beam, I was thinking about making a build for just that ability because as a magplar I have not found any build that makes you as viable as other classes.

techyeshic

Im at overlord just trying to get grand overlord to move on from my main templar. There really isnt much special other than jabs/sweeps with the class so I just use Deady on stam, and War maiden magicka. Would like to use Stuhns with all the pariah going around, but toppling charge in primetime lag will get you killed from desync.

gariondavey

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

The new patch is the best chance to resurrect the best Plar discussion in the forum. A very simple question/reflection....what are you using on your plars?

With my magplar I'm still using malacath+Trickery+Sthun...I'd like to try the new mythic head next.

On my stamplar...dunno really: any thought?

Heartland + new moon dw front bar+ zaan + vate ice destro back bar can be over 6k spell damage with 13k+ pen. Really nice on magplar.

On stamplar I'm still running mala + unleashed + maelstrom 2h + deadly. Master dw + deadly + deadlands + vate 2h is also really nice for stamplar.