Templars PvP - Detailed Guide, Suggestions, Advice, etc. - Elsweyr

VirtualElizabeth

Datolite wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Procs have taken over, there are ways to not succumb to the poor gameplay of procs, but youve actually gotta be good at the game.

Waff, my wolf build translates to every class very well.

Why do you say the use procs is poor game play. I have used Overwhelming surge off and on on my magplar for about 4-5 years now, alternating between destro/destro and destro/S&B. The reason I use it is largely due to the fact that it helps my dps when I being pounded on by a plethora of stam builds - For me, this set, I believe in some ways, helps even the playing field. If you have a suggestion on how to do this without a proc set feel free to share.

FYI I have also played with 2 x resource set with some modicom of success as well. OS to me, helps me feel a bit more aggressive in the middle of the ruccus lol.

Its poor game play, because the sets do what you should be doing: the set does damage for you. Thats why everyone calling proc sets lazy gameplay and the current meta one of the least skill full and most unenjoyable metas ever.

Then what is your suggestion? Replace OS with something like Julianos? What is a decent damage set these days that doesn't "proc" for magplars? Or is the 2x resource set with damage glyph the most acceptable - seems the most "hand made" option, which in an odd sense would fit more with my Bohemian leanings in real life, LOL.

Stuhn's is a good damage set that focuses on penetration - which is good against the heavy armor meta.

Rattlecage is my go-to since day 1 for heavy armor damage set. It frees up a skill slot you'd normally have to use for Major Sorcery, also allows you to ditch spell potions in favor of tri-pots if you're using Vampire's Bane.

Personally I found my Rattlecage/BTB combo just isn't as viable as it used to be so I also went back to Overwhelming to give me an edge. Even then, still getting out-pressured by dummies running Zaan/Vate/Malacath. Put up a good fight and they tea bag you for your efforts.

Proc meta is brutal for honest templars.

Thank you! I still really like my Overwhelming Surge set even if some folks out there turn their nose up at the thought of it being a "proc set". Been my go to since 2015!

ealdwin

Datolite wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Procs have taken over, there are ways to not succumb to the poor gameplay of procs, but youve actually gotta be good at the game.

Waff, my wolf build translates to every class very well.

Why do you say the use procs is poor game play. I have used Overwhelming surge off and on on my magplar for about 4-5 years now, alternating between destro/destro and destro/S&B. The reason I use it is largely due to the fact that it helps my dps when I being pounded on by a plethora of stam builds - For me, this set, I believe in some ways, helps even the playing field. If you have a suggestion on how to do this without a proc set feel free to share.

FYI I have also played with 2 x resource set with some modicom of success as well. OS to me, helps me feel a bit more aggressive in the middle of the ruccus lol.

Its poor game play, because the sets do what you should be doing: the set does damage for you. Thats why everyone calling proc sets lazy gameplay and the current meta one of the least skill full and most unenjoyable metas ever.

Then what is your suggestion? Replace OS with something like Julianos? What is a decent damage set these days that doesn't "proc" for magplars? Or is the 2x resource set with damage glyph the most acceptable - seems the most "hand made" option, which in an odd sense would fit more with my Bohemian leanings in real life, LOL.

Stuhn's is a good damage set that focuses on penetration - which is good against the heavy armor meta.

Rattlecage is my go-to since day 1 for heavy armor damage set. It frees up a skill slot you'd normally have to use for Major Sorcery, also allows you to ditch spell potions in favor of tri-pots if you're using Vampire's Bane.

Personally I found my Rattlecage/BTB combo just isn't as viable as it used to be so I also went back to Overwhelming to give me an edge. Even then, still getting out-pressured by dummies running Zaan/Vate/Malacath. Put up a good fight and they tea bag you for your efforts.

Proc meta is brutal for honest templars.

I ran across one of those Zaan/Vate/Malacath Necro-dummies the other night in BGs and...

At this point I'm used to my Magplar being deleted by most Stam chars or getting locked down by stuns and roots I can't even see until my health bar gives up, but...

That Necro just seemed to make my Magplar melt away into Oblivion. The entire team I was on fought against it later in the match, and we all just melted away before it. An absolute busted setup.

This meta is just brutal...

Rhaegar75

The problem is that magplars seem to have a limited choice even in terms of proc sets...compare us to a 5 Heavy Magden in icy + ice furnace + Malacath + vatershran or monster set

Any suggestions? At this stage I’d go happily full proc too just to keep up

Joy_Division

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

The problem is that magplars seem to have a limited choice even in terms of proc sets...compare us to a 5 Heavy Magden in icy + ice furnace + Malacath + vatershran or monster set

Any suggestions? At this stage I’d go happily full proc too just to keep up

Well, just my opinion, but I think you're approaching this backwards.

When the "problem" is a class/spec does not seem to have enough proc sets that tailor to it, then it seems to me that proc sets are too strong, too important, and comprise too much of a desired build.

Destyran

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Innate Axiom is such a great set for my magplar. I've been using it since Summerset (when I started playing). I mostly use class skills so it works for me. And that was before the recent buff.

Warmaiden bro

dcmgti

I dont know if you can compare Overwhelming to the current proc meta though. To me OS is a good set that helps with just a little extra damage but also helps with sustain. OS doesnt hit very hard even with Malacath so its not as some people say, doing all your damage for you. Just a little extra pressure and passive sustain.

BaiterOfZergs

Sets like overwhelming and grothdar are good for turning the fight against your opponent. Magplar s biggest weakness has always been getting stuck on defense, these sets combined lessons that.

I also already had a flex spot so I slotted rapid regen and put on ritual of retribution. Regen makes up for the heal you lose and ROR applies decent damage for those people in your “house” + procs your procs. Put on curse eater to make up for some of the loss you get for not having extended ritual. My main heal is actually regen which helps off heal teammates in bgs, they still get a purge, I get a good hot and BOL is my get out of jail heal.

My playstyle is aggressive so I’m not usually on the defense but if I am, keeping ROR down is good to turn the fight in my favor.

Datolite

I never really considered RoR since it only procs every 2 sec and the damage is pretty low. Still I like the concept of having passive heals while you are on offense, and passive dmg on defense.

BaiterOfZergs

Datolite wrote: »

I never really considered RoR since it only procs every 2 sec and the damage is pretty low. Still I like the concept of having passive heals while you are on offense, and passive dmg on defense.

Yeah for me it comes down to trying to fill as much gaps as possible. And as far as damage think of it like having reflective, ROR, sweeps, grothdar and overwhelming all hitting you in no cp; it’s not that easy to heal through and you’re applying a ton of pressure. Plus, you’re in a group setting where your opponent is likely to be getting hit by other people so every bit of damage matters.

StarOfElyon

Destyran wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Innate Axiom is such a great set for my magplar. I've been using it since Summerset (when I started playing). I mostly use class skills so it works for me. And that was before the recent buff.

Warmaiden bro

Not bad but it's nice getting 1k stamina from Innate Axiom. Also, Vampire's Bane is fire damage so it won't benefit from the buff with War Maiden.

Destyran

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Innate Axiom is such a great set for my magplar. I've been using it since Summerset (when I started playing). I mostly use class skills so it works for me. And that was before the recent buff.

Warmaiden bro

Not bad but it's nice getting 1k stamina from Innate Axiom. Also, Vampire's Bane is fire damage so it won't benefit from the buff with War Maiden.

Wouldn’t use vamps bane bro. Everyone’s back bar is the same. And so is the front almost. Back bar: rune, BoL, Ritual, RaT/Mist, ele drain/degeneration. Ice staff? Psijic ulti SnB? SnB ulti vampire? Vamp ulti

Front bar ele/degen, jabs, topple(for offbalance cp passive/stuhns) Jesus beam and PoL(single target)/barrage(open world solo)

StarOfElyon

Destyran wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Innate Axiom is such a great set for my magplar. I've been using it since Summerset (when I started playing). I mostly use class skills so it works for me. And that was before the recent buff.

Warmaiden bro

Not bad but it's nice getting 1k stamina from Innate Axiom. Also, Vampire's Bane is fire damage so it won't benefit from the buff with War Maiden.

Wouldn’t use vamps bane bro. Everyone’s back bar is the same. And so is the front almost. Back bar: rune, BoL, Ritual, RaT/Mist, ele drain/degeneration. Ice staff? Psijic ulti SnB? SnB ulti vampire? Vamp ulti

Front bar ele/degen, jabs, topple(for offbalance cp passive/stuhns) Jesus beam and PoL(single target)/barrage(open world solo)

On my main Templar (my first character):

- greatsword front bar -
toppling charge
purifying light
solar barrage
vampire's bane
puncturing sweeps

- resto staff -
rune
extended ritual
honor the dead
Rad Regen
(flex spot) Radiant Aura

Datolite

Lies. Templars don't have flex spots.

StarOfElyon

Datolite wrote: »

Lies. Templars don't have flex spots.

That's the one spot that I rotate skills on depending on what I need. But that doesn't mean I'm ever satisfied with what I have. This class still has serious flaws that are hid by sweeps/jabs.

Syiccal

Balanced warrior passive being a worst offender

StarOfElyon

Since I haven't shared this post in this thread yet

StarOfElyon wrote: »

First, let me say that I appreciate the hard work that game developers put into these games. I appreciate their efforts to make the game better. I have some suggestions for the Templar class to fix what I see as deficiencies and to improve on what is already there. I believe it's worth it's own thread and I want to be sure that someone at ZOS has seen it. Again, these are suggestions, not demands.


SKILLS:

Under Healing Ritual:

Hasty Prayer should be turned into a self-targeted vigor-like heal, meaning it will have a small burst heal with a HoT, and still give minor expedition.


Explosive Charge needs a buff. Maybe have it do BIG AoE damage to make it a worthy alternative to Toppling Charge.


Backlash should scale with spell damage instead of max magicka. For Purifying Light, the AoE HoT should be effective upon cast, not when it ends (which forces the player to remain in that spot to get the heal).

Also - and this is purely a cosmetic thing - I can't stand the green color of Power Of The Light (it should be white or gold to fit better with the Templar theme, in my opinion. Just make it gold and keep the swirling effect that it has to distinguish it.


Empowering Sweep lost the major protection that it used to have so why not have it heal the caster over time for the amount of the damage done. Since the empower buff is redundant on Templars (they get it from Solar Barrage), it's a waste of an ultimate. It can be called the Auroral Sweep or something.


Unstable Core could add a better CC to the Templar kit if it was made into an AoE skill the size of Time Stop or Negate. Rather than placing a dark bubble on an opponent, a large area can be targeted. Opponents in that area experience the same effects as the old Unstable Core everytime they use a direct damage attack against the caster or his/her group. The Templar can target the area around his self and create a "house" that damages attacking opposition. So the new description (with a name change) would read as follows:

Sanctuary (for example)
- Creates a luminous sphere at the target location that harms enemies with growing intensity anytime they use a Direct Damage attack. Limited to one. Their first attack reduces their movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds and deals 273 Magic Damage, their second attack immobilizes them for 3 seconds and deals 548 Magic Damage, and their third attack stuns them for 3 seconds and deals 822 Magic Damage. The effects can activate once every 1 second.


And more Templar shining light/glowing effects! (power fantasy dammit)



PASSIVES:

There are so many that are worthless. I'm leveling my second templar now (a tank) and I'm looking at passives like, "that feels like a waste of a skill point". I never felt that way when leveling a Necro and a DK.


Burning Light is worthless outside of Jabs/Sweeps and Spear Shards. Maybe what we should do is make the Piercing Spear passive the Burning Light passive. And the new Piercing Spear passive should be a penetration bonus to Aedric Spear abilities. For clarity:

The new Burning Light passive should be:
- Increase your Critical Damage by 10%
- Increase your damage done to blocking to target 10%

The new Piercing Spear passive should be:
- Adds (?) penetration to your Aedric Spear abilities.


Illuminate should give both Minor Sorcery and Minor Brutality (to help stamina players or hybrids). So that passive would look like this:

Illuminate:
- Casting a Dawn's Wrath ability grants Minor Brutality to you and Minor Sorcery to you and your group for 20 seconds, increasing your Spell and Weapon Damage by 10%.
(Edited so that Minor Brutality is only given to the caster but Minor Sorcery still applies to the group)


Light Weaver should effect the caster when under 50% health, not just allies. As it is now, the passive does the following: "When you heal an ally under 50% Health with a Restoring Light ability, you grant them 2 Ultimate."

But what if the Templar is solo? What good does this passive do then? None. At the very least, the caster should receive 2 Ultimate as well.


Balanced Warrior should give both weapon damage and spell damage bonuses, as well as bonuses to spell resistance and physical resistance. Why one or the other? As it is, it's fine for stamina Templars but 6% weapon damage does nothing for magicka Templars. So the new passive would look like this:

Balanced Warrior
- Increases your Spell and Weapon Damage by 6%. Increases Spell and Physical Resistance by 2640.


Master Ritualist should give Templars a 10% chance to remove one negative effect when casting a heal on their self or an ally. As it stands, this is another example of Templar passives being more beneficial to the team than the Templar their self. So the new passive would read like this:

Master Ritualist
- When you heal yourself or an ally, you have a 10% chance to remove one negative effect. Increases resurrection speed by 20%. Resurrected allies return with 100% more Health. Gives you a 50% chance to fill an empty Soul Gem after each successful resurrection.

If the calculations are too much, instead of having a 10% chance, every 10th cast of a Restoring Light ability can remove one negative effect.



So that's it for this round of suggestions. I hope someone at ZOS takes them into consideration.

Qbiken

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Innate Axiom is such a great set for my magplar. I've been using it since Summerset (when I started playing). I mostly use class skills so it works for me. And that was before the recent buff.

Warmaiden bro

Not bad but it's nice getting 1k stamina from Innate Axiom. Also, Vampire's Bane is fire damage so it won't benefit from the buff with War Maiden.

Wouldn’t use vamps bane bro. Everyone’s back bar is the same. And so is the front almost. Back bar: rune, BoL, Ritual, RaT/Mist, ele drain/degeneration. Ice staff? Psijic ulti SnB? SnB ulti vampire? Vamp ulti

Front bar ele/degen, jabs, topple(for offbalance cp passive/stuhns) Jesus beam and PoL(single target)/barrage(open world solo)

On my main Templar (my first character):

- greatsword front bar -
toppling charge
purifying light
solar barrage
vampire's bane
puncturing sweeps

- resto staff -
rune
extended ritual
honor the dead
Rad Regen
(flex spot) Radiant Aura

If you run greatsword swap solar barrage and honor the dead. The main reason to run greatsword front is to run honor the dead on frontbar as well since it:

* Gets higher value due to greatsword giving more spell damage.

* Doesn't force you to backbar (and getting stuck there like magplar usually does) in order to access a heal.

Syiccal

https://youtu.be/GImrNzwc3Zs

Please check out my latest build

Destyran

Syiccal wrote: »

https://youtu.be/GImrNzwc3Zs

Please check out my latest build

I’d rather roll a new class magplars trash now. I have put so much effort into builds just to have a easier time on literally anything else

Destyran

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=303774

I feel this is the best Templar set up possible. You can use stuhns front bar with nirn great sword if you like it’s similar damage. or warmaiden great sword sharpened too but everything I have tested it doesn’t get better than this and it still underperforms compared to warden

StarOfElyon

Qbiken wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Innate Axiom is such a great set for my magplar. I've been using it since Summerset (when I started playing). I mostly use class skills so it works for me. And that was before the recent buff.

Warmaiden bro

Not bad but it's nice getting 1k stamina from Innate Axiom. Also, Vampire's Bane is fire damage so it won't benefit from the buff with War Maiden.

Wouldn’t use vamps bane bro. Everyone’s back bar is the same. And so is the front almost. Back bar: rune, BoL, Ritual, RaT/Mist, ele drain/degeneration. Ice staff? Psijic ulti SnB? SnB ulti vampire? Vamp ulti

Front bar ele/degen, jabs, topple(for offbalance cp passive/stuhns) Jesus beam and PoL(single target)/barrage(open world solo)

On my main Templar (my first character):

- greatsword front bar -
toppling charge
purifying light
solar barrage
vampire's bane
puncturing sweeps

- resto staff -
rune
extended ritual
honor the dead
Rad Regen
(flex spot) Radiant Aura

If you run greatsword swap solar barrage and honor the dead. The main reason to run greatsword front is to run honor the dead on frontbar as well since it:

* Gets higher value due to greatsword giving more spell damage.

* Doesn't force you to backbar (and getting stuck there like magplar usually does) in order to access a heal.

I use a powered restoration staff and I usually play healer with this character. I'll just throw some support skills on the front bar. Most of my time is spent on the back bar. This is just the way I play this character. It's not meant to be the best out there.

Navras

Well, I give up guys. I might not be the best Magplar in the World but I'm not either the worst one. I've played 500sh Battlegrounds in the last two and a half or three months and my final take is "*** it, I give up"

I'm talking about battlegrounds and NOCP in general. I main a Magplar since ever, while playing other classes in just my spare time.

Well, I've tried out everything (or almost) and the feeling can vary from "depressing" to "unsatisfying" to "I'm rage braking my keyboard throwing it to the wall".

The only viable option seems to go healing in heavy armour, which is far to be enjoyable (imho of course)

Other than that I lose to almost anyone (at the same skill level) which is not a Templar himself.

At the same time, if I join a BG with my Stamblade or with my StamDK I go 10:1 K:D ratio with just a small effort:
charge\stun, dots, bang bang, defensive something, execute, move to next one.

Don't tell me L2P, even if I probably have to.
Just send hugs.

/rant over

Kartalin

@Navras Three years ago my healing setup for no cp Cyrodiil included heavy Kags, Transmutation, and earthgore (right about when we were figuring out how powerful it was. See at around 1:32 in this vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXvvTuOUfaM

Metas change, things come and go, but heavy armor healing as a templar has never been bad and often even necessary. I get that light armor feels better though.

Neoauspex

All of the gear setups I put on my Magplar are better on other mag classes, and a lot of them are better on stam classes too.

EtTuBrutus

Neoauspex wrote: »

All of the gear setups I put on my Magplar are better on other mag classes, and a lot of them are better on stam classes too.

It’s bc the amount of counterplay against the Templar class is higher than most others. Every single class has an easy high burst combo except Templar too.

StarOfElyon

Take away toppling charge and the class is dead.

techyeshic

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Take away toppling charge and the class is dead.

I already take it off in Cyrodiil prime time because of desyncs

VirtualElizabeth

So is going Vampire viable now in Pvp? I have been out of the game for a bit and just came back. Last time I pvp'd everyone said "DON'T GO VAMP". Whats the consensus nowadays because I feel sooo slow on my magplar.

Thanks!

StarOfElyon

Don't go Vamp. Proc sets or go home. if proc sets remain this powerful in the next patch, I'm done. I can't do another year of this. I literally can't do it.

techyeshic

You actually should use vamp and procs on a template if you want a meta build.
Beam orovs with mist means sine decent damage and a lot of mitigation while not being root or stunned. Even without proc on yourself, mist form is invaluable to get out of a lot of crap.