Is it time to change the CP system?

temjiu

The system needs a change

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

KaiDynasty wrote: »

In my opinion they should rework the cp system and make it to provide a vertical progression and not a horizontal progression.
Right now more cp you have, more you will be tanky, more you will healing, more you will deal damage. Yes you can put all of the cps just in some perk to be full tank / full healer / full dps at once but imo that's not good because as the cp are "spreaded" you can gain more of these attributes (because cps are limited in blue, red, green tree, so you are forced to gain resistances in addition to sustain and damage).
They should spread cp in a way where players aren't forced to put cps in the 3 trees, but if they want to fully go sustain, being able to put all the cps in that direction. This is just a way to change the system.
It is clear that more the cps are, more the differences on builds are less because cps compensate for them, so in a long future, cps will make all just the same thing, and that's not good.

A concept mmos typically use. This stops players from being jack of all trades in a sense, that’s the direction it’ll ultimately go, again. I was for something like this early on. Damage, mitigation, sustain and healing for example should probably be in the same tree. Or like you said remove the trees and add a point system where you are force to invest in multiple areas but not all. So you can be good at damage and healing but subpar when it comes to mitigation.

I agree with this. Ultimately CP will kill class individuality and homogenize the game since we'll all have maxed resists, maxed damage, and maxed healing. They should either put a lock in place, or re-align passives so you can't have them all. Most MMO's lock progression in one way or another, and CP is the current progression system in place. Class levels are really just there for skill points at this point...skills are unlocked by use, and real power is all in the CP.

At the same time, I would also be for adding more QoL variances to the trees. run speed, sprint speed, CD reduction, AoE range increases, Duratiob increases...they could add a ton of stuff that would change how skills worked, and thin out the point investments at the same time.

idk

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LOL, did op actually suggest making CP about inventory space?

Read it again, I said they could add quality of life changes to the cp system such as inventory space. You know, to get rid of excess CP...

Thx for confirming what I posted.

What some seem to not see is the changes Zos makes every quarter outside of CP is the direct cause of power creep. It is why we were still going strong after Morrowind and the major CP nerf we experienced then.

So the cause is much less the measly 30 CP every 3 months than the devs changes everywhere else including new gear.

So yes, Zos make CP more about inventory space and these people might end up seeing what is actually happening. And yes, lets make CP about inventory space. Great idea because that will clearly solve the issue.

CatchMeTrolling

The system needs a change

temjiu wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

KaiDynasty wrote: »

In my opinion they should rework the cp system and make it to provide a vertical progression and not a horizontal progression.
Right now more cp you have, more you will be tanky, more you will healing, more you will deal damage. Yes you can put all of the cps just in some perk to be full tank / full healer / full dps at once but imo that's not good because as the cp are "spreaded" you can gain more of these attributes (because cps are limited in blue, red, green tree, so you are forced to gain resistances in addition to sustain and damage).
They should spread cp in a way where players aren't forced to put cps in the 3 trees, but if they want to fully go sustain, being able to put all the cps in that direction. This is just a way to change the system.
It is clear that more the cps are, more the differences on builds are less because cps compensate for them, so in a long future, cps will make all just the same thing, and that's not good.

A concept mmos typically use. This stops players from being jack of all trades in a sense, that’s the direction it’ll ultimately go, again. I was for something like this early on. Damage, mitigation, sustain and healing for example should probably be in the same tree. Or like you said remove the trees and add a point system where you are force to invest in multiple areas but not all. So you can be good at damage and healing but subpar when it comes to mitigation.

I agree with this. Ultimately CP will kill class individuality and homogenize the game since we'll all have maxed resists, maxed damage, and maxed healing. They should either put a lock in place, or re-align passives so you can't have them all. Most MMO's lock progression in one way or another, and CP is the current progression system in place. Class levels are really just there for skill points at this point...skills are unlocked by use, and real power is all in the CP.

At the same time, I would also be for adding more QoL variances to the trees. run speed, sprint speed, CD reduction, AoE range increases, Duratiob increases...they could add a ton of stuff that would change how skills worked, and thin out the point investments at the same time.

Homogenization is a good point, from what I seen most people have been against ZOS doing that so it’s odd that people feel differently when cp adds to that. Never liked the whole “do all in one” character in multiplayer games. It’s the same reason Morrowind nerfs happened in the first place. It doesn’t work in pve or pvp.

Also, I’m sure many players wouldn’t mind adding snare immunity, root immunity and cc reduction to that list. There’s so many possibilities that could add new life to the game.

CatchMeTrolling

The system needs a change

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Personally I like the cp system. The game is currently balanced around it. So changing it would require a lot of changes and we all know how the community takes this kind of changes and the amount of time it takes for ZOS to balance certain skills with the amount of time it takes to watch and learn to see how the changes really affect the game.

People talk about how a power creep is coming from the cp system and while I think this true from a point. With every major update or quarter new content release. They release new more powerful sets that become the new BIS is certain situations.

The added 30 cp points every quarter is not really that much and does add a little progression. I think they did address this some when that changed the cp system to diminished returns with the more you add to each skill the less you get.

30 cp sounds like nothing for one patch , that I can agree with but over time it adds up and before you know it the cap is at 810. Seems like yesterday it was 501?? Throw in buffs and sets with it, then you’ll see how it all just continues to build up over time. So yeah, it’s not just one thing , it never is. Albeit, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look into ways to improve one thing because there’s also other areas needing change. Two problems can exist at once.

It would take a lot of work, essentially an overhaul. It’ll be worth it in my opinion. It’s time for the players to start thinking of the longevity of the game.

starkerealm

I think we're getting into a critical limitation of how the Champion Point system was set up originally.

When it was originally introduced, the idea was that it would be a never ending system. You could keep earning CP (until you hit 3600), with no ceiling in sight. Which is where we got the rotation between the three types. This meant that you couldn't stack damage out of the gate, you needed to stack survival and resources as well.

With where the Champion Point system works now... that doesn't make sense. You can't simply max out your outgoing damage, even if you wanted to. (Though, legitimately, that would only take up about 500 CP), so everyone picks up some durability from CP, they pick up some damage, and they pick up some resources.

At this point, I'm starting to feel like the system needs to be unshackled from that rotation. Probably re-balanced towards the idea that players need to have a concrete power limit they can obtain, and add opportunity costs to getting that effectiveness.

It's also kind of critical to remember that if you give players a choice between spending points from a system to boost combat effectiveness or non-combat functionality, in almost every situation, the non-combat skills become the wrong choice. If the Champion system is supposed to have functionality like improved loot drops, or boosted crafting XP, that's what split points advantage.

Also, the system is obtuse. While I can parse it out, a lot of people have real difficulty even understanding what the individual stars do. Including things like, "what's direct damage?" Because figuring that one out isn't as immediately intuitive as you might think.

If I was tearing up the system, and starting over, I'd keep it. No, seriously, I think it is a fantastic progression tool, but I would make some major changes.

Instead of the existing stars as % points, I'd look at fixed, finite upgrades. Rather than a star that eventually gave you +25% to Direct Damage, I'd look at things like an upgrade that granted +20% to ability based damage, or another that granted +10% max Stamina (with the attribute buffs that are provided by ranking up CP being moved out of a blind system and directly onto the constellations.) If you want an upgrade, you pay an announced value for it. Something from 5CP for a very small buff up to as much as 50 points for major investments. This allows you to mimic the current diminishing returns system, but in a more transparent way.

Want more Max Health? 5pts will get you 10%, 20pts will get you another 10%, and 50 points will get you +5%. Why would you ever spend 50 points on that? When you've already spent 25pts for the easy +20%, and want to get that last push.

Beyond this, I'd probably suggest doing away with the direct mitigation buffs, and switching over to flat resistance increases. Because of how mitigation works, this stuff is not entire apparent. So, the options are to completely rework mitigation, to make it more transparent, or (at least short term) change how they're presented to the player.

If the goal is to have non-combat CP bonuses, those need to come out of a separate pool, so that players aren't being forced to chose between them. That can either be direct parity, where each CP earned grants a non-combat, and a combat focused point, it could be the current round robin system, or it could be staggered (eg: every 5 CP earned, you gain one non-combat point to spend.)

PvP buffs share a similar situation, where these should be clearly delineated from PvE focused buffs. This doesn't, necessarily, need to be as extreme, but players need to know if they're spending points on something that is only useful in PvP. It's not as critical to put these in a separate pool, also they could do with some more variety. Such as offering buffs to players who are assaulting a keep.

My recommendation on non-combat would be to split it into distinct "roles," like crafter, harvester, or thief, with a range of buffs in each. Some stuff like Treasure Hunter, Master Gatherer, and Merchant's Friend are natural fits here, as are some of the existing percentage stars, like Sprinter and Shade.

As is, I think the framework of the system is brilliant. It frees players from being tied to a single character, the way many MMOs do.

That said, I'll also just throw this one out there, I think all the champion mats should be compacted down, I think the gear cap should hit at 50 (the stats can be tweaked around), but there's really no compelling value in telling someone, "no, don't use that key you just got until you hit 160," with the added ambiguity of, "how long will that be?" for a new player. If I were messing with it, I'd probably look at the idea of stripping levels from gear entirely and letting them scale to the player, with the different material tiers having different upper caps, (so 15 for Iron, but 50 for Ebony.) If Ruby tier gear survived, and capped at 160, sure, why not?

That's a different discussion.

I like the champion system as a concept. The implementation is flawed. Not so flawed that I think it's without merit, because there is a lot to love here, but it could improvements.

idk

starkerealm wrote: »

I think we're getting into a critical limitation of how the Champion Point system was set up originally.

When it was originally introduced, the idea was that it would be a never ending system. You could keep earning CP (until you hit 3600), with no ceiling in sight. Which is where we got the rotation between the three types. This meant that you couldn't stack damage out of the gate, you needed to stack survival and resources as well.

With where the Champion Point system works now... that doesn't make sense. You can't simply max out your outgoing damage, even if you wanted to. (Though, legitimately, that would only take up about 500 CP), so everyone picks up some durability from CP, they pick up some damage, and they pick up some resources.

At this point, I'm starting to feel like the system needs to be unshackled from that rotation. Probably re-balanced towards the idea that players need to have a concrete power limit they can obtain, and add opportunity costs to getting that effectiveness.

It's also kind of critical to remember that if you give players a choice between spending points from a system to boost combat effectiveness or non-combat functionality, in almost every situation, the non-combat skills become the wrong choice. If the Champion system is supposed to have functionality like improved loot drops, or boosted crafting XP, that's what split points advantage.

Also, the system is obtuse. While I can parse it out, a lot of people have real difficulty even understanding what the individual stars do. Including things like, "what's direct damage?" Because figuring that one out isn't as immediately intuitive as you might think.

If I was tearing up the system, and starting over, I'd keep it. No, seriously, I think it is a fantastic progression tool, but I would make some major changes.

Instead of the existing stars as % points, I'd look at fixed, finite upgrades. Rather than a star that eventually gave you +25% to Direct Damage, I'd look at things like an upgrade that granted +20% to ability based damage, or another that granted +10% max Stamina (with the attribute buffs that are provided by ranking up CP being moved out of a blind system and directly onto the constellations.) If you want an upgrade, you pay an announced value for it. Something from 5CP for a very small buff up to as much as 50 points for major investments. This allows you to mimic the current diminishing returns system, but in a more transparent way.

Want more Max Health? 5pts will get you 10%, 20pts will get you another 10%, and 50 points will get you +5%. Why would you ever spend 50 points on that? When you've already spent 25pts for the easy +20%, and want to get that last push.

Beyond this, I'd probably suggest doing away with the direct mitigation buffs, and switching over to flat resistance increases. Because of how mitigation works, this stuff is not entire apparent. So, the options are to completely rework mitigation, to make it more transparent, or (at least short term) change how they're presented to the player.

If the goal is to have non-combat CP bonuses, those need to come out of a separate pool, so that players aren't being forced to chose between them. That can either be direct parity, where each CP earned grants a non-combat, and a combat focused point, it could be the current round robin system, or it could be staggered (eg: every 5 CP earned, you gain one non-combat point to spend.)

PvP buffs share a similar situation, where these should be clearly delineated from PvE focused buffs. This doesn't, necessarily, need to be as extreme, but players need to know if they're spending points on something that is only useful in PvP. It's not as critical to put these in a separate pool, also they could do with some more variety. Such as offering buffs to players who are assaulting a keep.

My recommendation on non-combat would be to split it into distinct "roles," like crafter, harvester, or thief, with a range of buffs in each. Some stuff like Treasure Hunter, Master Gatherer, and Merchant's Friend are natural fits here, as are some of the existing percentage stars, like Sprinter and Shade.

As is, I think the framework of the system is brilliant. It frees players from being tied to a single character, the way many MMOs do.

That said, I'll also just throw this one out there, I think all the champion mats should be compacted down, I think the gear cap should hit at 50 (the stats can be tweaked around), but there's really no compelling value in telling someone, "no, don't use that key you just got until you hit 160," with the added ambiguity of, "how long will that be?" for a new player. If I were messing with it, I'd probably look at the idea of stripping levels from gear entirely and letting them scale to the player, with the different material tiers having different upper caps, (so 15 for Iron, but 50 for Ebony.) If Ruby tier gear survived, and capped at 160, sure, why not?

That's a different discussion.

I like the champion system as a concept. The implementation is flawed. Not so flawed that I think it's without merit, because there is a lot to love here, but it could improvements.

1st, that full 3600 was expected to be obtained by most in less than 2 years. Clearly that was part of the persistent issue with Zos where they do not think things through very well even when we called it god mode when it was tested in the PTS.

It should not be unshackled as you suggest. Part of the reason Zos squashed CP heavily in Morrowind and did more to front load the benefit from each CP while increasing the diminished returns was to make bad CP builds less common. Unshackling it would go against that in a major and obvious way.

Further, you are wrong in suggesting CP frees players to play various characters vs how it is in other MMO(RPGs) as with most MMORPGs it is much easier to level up initially than it is in ESO. The reason we have CP is it is the brainchild of the same geniuses that thought VR was such a great idea.

Zypheran

Other (Explain)

I like CP, I think its only natural that after years of playing you have a level of power greater than somebody that just started. And I think ZOS have done a good job at ensuring that at upper levels the increased CP has less of an impact due to front loading.
But I do think that the 30CP increase with every patch should not go on indefinitely. I think it should be eventually capped at a reasonable round number like 900. That's enough to reward any long time player with power and also not too discouraging to a new player as an unachievable target.
That said, I do think a simple QoL improvement would be the ability to turn off your CP without having to go reset your CP. Just a simple on/off toggle that would allow players to challenge themselves without having to go to too much effort messing with their current CP set-up. It would use this everytime new content came out so as to make it feel a bit more alive. Currently, at max CP, Summerset, Murkmire et al just feel like 'go fetch' quests.

CatchMeTrolling

The system needs a change

starkerealm wrote: »

I think we're getting into a critical limitation of how the Champion Point system was set up originally.

When it was originally introduced, the idea was that it would be a never ending system. You could keep earning CP (until you hit 3600), with no ceiling in sight. Which is where we got the rotation between the three types. This meant that you couldn't stack damage out of the gate, you needed to stack survival and resources as well.

With where the Champion Point system works now... that doesn't make sense. You can't simply max out your outgoing damage, even if you wanted to. (Though, legitimately, that would only take up about 500 CP), so everyone picks up some durability from CP, they pick up some damage, and they pick up some resources.

At this point, I'm starting to feel like the system needs to be unshackled from that rotation. Probably re-balanced towards the idea that players need to have a concrete power limit they can obtain, and add opportunity costs to getting that effectiveness.

It's also kind of critical to remember that if you give players a choice between spending points from a system to boost combat effectiveness or non-combat functionality, in almost every situation, the non-combat skills become the wrong choice. If the Champion system is supposed to have functionality like improved loot drops, or boosted crafting XP, that's what split points advantage.

Also, the system is obtuse. While I can parse it out, a lot of people have real difficulty even understanding what the individual stars do. Including things like, "what's direct damage?" Because figuring that one out isn't as immediately intuitive as you might think.

If I was tearing up the system, and starting over, I'd keep it. No, seriously, I think it is a fantastic progression tool, but I would make some major changes.

Instead of the existing stars as % points, I'd look at fixed, finite upgrades. Rather than a star that eventually gave you +25% to Direct Damage, I'd look at things like an upgrade that granted +20% to ability based damage, or another that granted +10% max Stamina (with the attribute buffs that are provided by ranking up CP being moved out of a blind system and directly onto the constellations.) If you want an upgrade, you pay an announced value for it. Something from 5CP for a very small buff up to as much as 50 points for major investments. This allows you to mimic the current diminishing returns system, but in a more transparent way.

Want more Max Health? 5pts will get you 10%, 20pts will get you another 10%, and 50 points will get you +5%. Why would you ever spend 50 points on that? When you've already spent 25pts for the easy +20%, and want to get that last push.

Beyond this, I'd probably suggest doing away with the direct mitigation buffs, and switching over to flat resistance increases. Because of how mitigation works, this stuff is not entire apparent. So, the options are to completely rework mitigation, to make it more transparent, or (at least short term) change how they're presented to the player.

If the goal is to have non-combat CP bonuses, those need to come out of a separate pool, so that players aren't being forced to chose between them. That can either be direct parity, where each CP earned grants a non-combat, and a combat focused point, it could be the current round robin system, or it could be staggered (eg: every 5 CP earned, you gain one non-combat point to spend.)

PvP buffs share a similar situation, where these should be clearly delineated from PvE focused buffs. This doesn't, necessarily, need to be as extreme, but players need to know if they're spending points on something that is only useful in PvP. It's not as critical to put these in a separate pool, also they could do with some more variety. Such as offering buffs to players who are assaulting a keep.

My recommendation on non-combat would be to split it into distinct "roles," like crafter, harvester, or thief, with a range of buffs in each. Some stuff like Treasure Hunter, Master Gatherer, and Merchant's Friend are natural fits here, as are some of the existing percentage stars, like Sprinter and Shade.

As is, I think the framework of the system is brilliant. It frees players from being tied to a single character, the way many MMOs do.

That said, I'll also just throw this one out there, I think all the champion mats should be compacted down, I think the gear cap should hit at 50 (the stats can be tweaked around), but there's really no compelling value in telling someone, "no, don't use that key you just got until you hit 160," with the added ambiguity of, "how long will that be?" for a new player. If I were messing with it, I'd probably look at the idea of stripping levels from gear entirely and letting them scale to the player, with the different material tiers having different upper caps, (so 15 for Iron, but 50 for Ebony.) If Ruby tier gear survived, and capped at 160, sure, why not?

That's a different discussion.

I like the champion system as a concept. The implementation is flawed. Not so flawed that I think it's without merit, because there is a lot to love here, but it could improvements.

This is actually a really good read, I hope Zos looks over this.

A few people have said they’d like something similar. I like the role idea as a way to add the quality of life changes.

While it’s not the greatest system it has qualities that could be really good if the devs decided to expand on it. Adding new non combat/combat options would actually give a better sense of progression and customization. At the end of the day that’s what we all want in an mmo. ZOS should compile a bunch of different ideas and go from there.

I think the concept is outdated. It sounds nice to keep rising in power with no end in sight (this isn’t a single player game) but in practice it just doesn’t work. But they can capitalize off of it without completely scraping it.

starkerealm

idk wrote: »

1st, that full 3600 was expected to be obtained by most in less than 2 years. Clearly that was part of the persistent issue with Zos where they do not think things through very well even when we called it god mode when it was tested in the PTS.

I'm not sure who thought it would take two years. When the system was first on the PTS, people where whining about it taking 10 years to max. That's... slightly different.

idk wrote: »

It should not be unshackled as you suggest. Part of the reason Zos squashed CP heavily in Morrowind and did more to front load the benefit from each CP while increasing the diminished returns was to make bad CP builds less common. Unshackling it would go against that in a major and obvious way.

Not exactly. The problem, right now, is that players are asked to make some fairly complicated, in depth, decisions. Those choices are not transparent, and it makes it much harder for an average player to intelligently select their CP. I'm talking about an overhaul designed to make the system more approachable. Unshackling it would fulfill part of that, because it would allow players to put points in places they felt would be useful, rather than getting caught in a wave of noob traps. Now, you can never fully protect someone, but the goal here is to make sure the choices they're making would be ones they understood, rather than stuff that is, like I said, obtuse.

idk wrote: »

Further, you are wrong in suggesting CP frees players to play various characters vs how it is in other MMO(RPGs) as with most MMORPGs it is much easier to level up initially than it is in ESO. The reason we have CP is it is the brainchild of the same geniuses that thought VR was such a great idea.

That's not necessarily true. While CP was part of the overhaul the game conceived in the run up to launch, that may not be the same team that came up with Vet Ranks. Also, I'm not sure anyone thought VR as a brilliant idea. Especially given how much those were tweaked, basically out of the gate. My impression was that VR was always a stop gap towards creating a more robust system.

Further than that, at this point we have a game where you can get a character to level cap in under an hour. I'm having a hard time coming up with another MMO where that's even possible, barring exploits or instant leveling tokens. Now, granted, that's not an endgame ready character, but still.

Emmagoldman

Remove CP

I don’t know how people think it’s fine.

The fact to get a percentage increase, you need to round down. So a 27.8 is 27%. That makes sense!

Powercreep isn’t a concern? Does it offer that much variety and creativity? Hardly

At the very least it needs to be relooked at

jainiadral

Other (Explain)

As endgame progression systems go, CP is pretty good-- in most games the systems are terrible (Galactic Command, GW2 Mastery, the endless gear/AP/SP grind in SWL). The little QOL of perks are fantastic, like quick harvesting or crafting inspiration.

But, gods is it draining. The curve to gain new points that begins about mid-CP feels insurmountable. I feel like I'm hitting a wall hard at CP 500. It takes almost all of enlightenment to gain a single point. I'm never going to finish at this rate-- and the cap will go up again probably before I hit 700. XP gain doesn't increase at all to accommodate the ever-increasing amount it takes to level. I can't stand trying to level anything outside enlightenment anymore, so I've cut my playtime by about 50+% to keep myself from burning out.

I hate chasing long-term objectives. Really hate it. I'm not a greyhound chasing fake bunnies at the track... I'd like to see either the XP required get reduced by 30% or cap CP forever at 810.

eso_nya

Other (Explain)

the upside is, that i dont "lose" xp after hitting the cap.
the downside is, for me it stopped giving a sense of progression somewhen last year. im currently at 1390 cp, since the last 6 or 7 patches, i dont feel any difference anymore when im allowed to spend 30 points more. "u now do 0,8% (rounded down to 0) more dmg with elemental attacks."

Kidgangster101

The system needs a change

Well another thing we can do is ask for class specialist roles. If anyone played everquest online adventures this was a great way to enhance your toon without it becoming too over powered.

Basically after you hit max level you would have to pick a role to be profitient in. We can use warden as an example. Their three trees is plants, ice, and animals. So if you became an animal specialist you could get points as you level up to slightly enhance the damage of pet moves or even lower the cost of the move. Each ability could be upgraded like 5-10 times so it doesn't become out of hand and after you completely fill your tree you can unlock a special skill unique to the specialist you chose. This method makes it so you have 3 specialist types per class and will make each one unique.

I think something like that would make your toon feel more powerful but in a special way. It would.also create a difference between healers, tanks, and DPS. But the current system where CP is so big a percentage is a bit much and making racial passives not that good. Brenton gets 3% cost reduction as a passive. Well anyone not a Brenton gets that with only a few CP, so at some point someone goes why make a Brenton when I can make a high elf. They would get all the perks of a high elf plus get cost reduction that is Brenton's passive. This is just one example.

Another example is vampires. They are suppose to be weak to fire but you can get crazy high fire resistance through passives and then their passive makes them take 50% less damage (I believe if I'm remembering correctly) when under a certain health state. In this instance you are completely negating their weakness and actually making it a benefit. That is why so many builds are vampires compared to warewolfs.

But if CP didn't allow you to go crazy with stat increases at 15+% it wouldn't be nearly as bad but with the current state it's just a bit much and should be looked at in another way imo.

Emma_Overload

The System is fine as it is

Nah.

People who say we don't really need more CP haven't considered the fact that you really need TWICE as much CP as we have now to make effective use of Stamina/Physical ultimates on a Magicka build and vice-versa.

SugaComa

Other (Explain)

Just unlock all the CP put it into base setting ... Make the passives a skill line purchaseable with skill points then have each level grant a crate or runebox you can open with goodies in it like the daily quest crates

xxthir13enxx

Other (Explain)

Gawd please no....haven’t they f’d up enough things already!? Start messing with cp n we’ll all turn into dwarves...

PS4_ZeColmeia

The System is fine as it is

I don't agree. With the changes to make them more front loaded you actually open up true hybrids to be closer to dedicated resource pool characters. Additionally, it continually makes it easier and easier for new people to "catch up" since you get most of the benefit early in the CP tree and the higher the cap, the quicker you can get enough CP to viable against a cap player.

Personally, I'd like to see a new constellation "the Serpent" to be added that is opened up after CP 400-ish that is a bit more Crafting centric that is less combat orientated and more around side stuff in the game. It'd encourage additional spread in the CP which will put downward pressure on high CP maxing out combat trees. Probably more so in my case since I do everything on one character, but if the passives helped any type of character (drop rates, improvement rates, something else) I think you would see everyone use it to some degree

karekiz

The System is fine as it is

I can't talk for raid content.

Until I see what I saw happen in TSW with dungeon bosses <Bosses equal to that of Vet DLC/HM> being burned in 20-30
seconds by *PUG* groups <fastest being literally a 6 second kill on a final encounter with a coordinated team> and barely casting a spell I don't think its quite out of hand.

From what I see doing dungeons, most players skill/dmg output isn't into crazy levels. Maybe its a matter of the final DPS ceiling is too high and those up there are too powerful. In that case though you would need to specifically nerf that level and bring it down without screwing over the other majority. Flat nerfing CP would just indirectly hit everyone.

I quite recall people on forums asking for buffs on certain classes. We should focus on that first before flat nerfing every build by reducing CP effects on dmg.

DMuehlhausen

Other (Explain)

The system never should have been implemented in the first place. It's basically makes all content trivial once you get past a certain point. Also giving a number like that that other people can see is also the first thing use to be EJs to people which is never a good thing for a community either.

CatchMeTrolling

The system needs a change

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

I don't agree. With the changes to make them more front loaded you actually open up true hybrids to be closer to dedicated resource pool characters. Additionally, it continually makes it easier and easier for new people to "catch up" since you get most of the benefit early in the CP tree and the higher the cap, the quicker you can get enough CP to viable against a cap player.

Personally, I'd like to see a new constellation "the Serpent" to be added that is opened up after CP 400-ish that is a bit more Crafting centric that is less combat orientated and more around side stuff in the game. It'd encourage additional spread in the CP which will put downward pressure on high CP maxing out combat trees. Probably more so in my case since I do everything on one character, but if the passives helped any type of character (drop rates, improvement rates, something else) I think you would see everyone use it to some degree

The part about front loading cp makes it easier to get enough cp to face higher cp players is a misconception. With more cp it works more in your favor because you’ll get more out of the system by spreading points out. At this point capped players have everything they need. For pvp you’re not typically going over 42/43 or 56 points. Which means on paper a lower cp player is still at a disadvantage.

The extra tree couldn’t be added that way, it would have to be done so there’s a choice between things. Because you’d just constantly respec for whatever content you need to do. Maybe if they somehow temporarily lock the extra non combat perks it’ll work out.

CatchMeTrolling

The system needs a change

eso_nya wrote: »

the upside is, that i dont "lose" xp after hitting the cap.
the downside is, for me it stopped giving a sense of progression somewhen last year. im currently at 1390 cp, since the last 6 or 7 patches, i dont feel any difference anymore when im allowed to spend 30 points more. "u now do 0,8% (rounded down to 0) more dmg with elemental attacks."

That’ll pretty much be the case from now on. The points are simply a bonus now that your build doesn’t necessarily need or you can’t even use them because of the way it rounds.

ATomiX96

The system needs a change

slowly but surely its getting boring... every patch +10 cp to spend in each tree doesnt change gameplay at all... it just makes the powercreep in the game stronger with every consecutive patch, while content is still scaled around 300cp

Also the itemization in this game is getting boring slowly, every patch you get 20 new item sets of which 2-3 are useable.

CatchMeTrolling

The system needs a change

karekiz wrote: »

I can't talk for raid content.

Until I see what I saw happen in TSW with dungeon bosses <Bosses equal to that of Vet DLC/HM> being burned in 20-30
seconds by *PUG* groups <fastest being literally a 6 second kill on a final encounter with a coordinated team> and barely casting a spell I don't think its quite out of hand.

From what I see doing dungeons, most players skill/dmg output isn't into crazy levels. Maybe its a matter of the final DPS ceiling is too high and those up there are too powerful. In that case though you would need to specifically nerf that level and bring it down without screwing over the other majority. Flat nerfing CP would just indirectly hit everyone.

I quite recall people on forums asking for buffs on certain classes. We should focus on that first before flat nerfing every build by reducing CP effects on dmg.

Hmm I think different skill levels is a different discussion. That really isn’t a cp issue , whether you raise or lower cp, buff or nerf cp, or completely remove it there will be a skill gap.

As far as class buffs I can agree classes need work but, at the same time there still needs to be change. Stamina wardens for example was ridiculous because there wasn’t enough testing for how things combined with the class.

CatchMeTrolling

The system needs a change

ATomiX96 wrote: »

slowly but surely its getting boring... every patch +10 cp to spend in each tree doesnt change gameplay at all... it just makes the powercreep in the game stronger with every consecutive patch, while content is still scaled around 300cp

Also the itemization in this game is getting boring slowly, every patch you get 20 new item sets of which 2-3 are useable.

Scaling is good point, perhaps they can raise that and tweak pve content. Not sure if it’ll be good for new players unless they make cp even easier to obtain. But pvp content will still suffer .

As for itemization it’s either something broken or completely useless. Something that needs to be addressed too.

josiahva

Remove CP

Elwendryll wrote: »

I'd like the progression to open new gameplay mechanics, not raw stats. Like some of the perks you unlock : a kill with an heavy attack make you invisible, you can deal damage to an enemy if you block, shield while blocking, regen magicka for you and allies when you kill an enemy...

I'd like some exotics perks that open original and fun gameplay...

I think this is the best idea...instead of CP...after lvl50 a perk system ala Fallout would be awesome...each perk should require x "champion points"(for lack of any other name) and be niche and situational so there are only so many "must have" perks. For example...maybe a tank gains a damage shield for X if he has 6+ enemies taunted...worthless for anyone not dedicated to tanking and more nichely, taunting all the things, but because its such a niche perk, it could be powerful, the damage shield could be good for 30k, or maybe last 60 seconds, etc

idk

@starkerealm

It was the Zos devs themselves who stated they expected it would take the average player less than two years to max it out. I forget exactly how many months were stated but it was about one year and 9 months iirc.

While Zos clearly did not think things through when they created the CP system, even though it was copied from another game, I was dumbfounded with Zos' the ignorance to the obvious when this system was released. Granted, they have shown the same incapacity to even begin to comprehend the impact of other choices they made before and since that fateful update.

It was a while later Zos added the scaling cost and the CP cap in an attempt to rein it in. However a poor design is still a poor design and changing some of the CP to inventory and other QoL is just a silly idea.

However, we are not making complicated and in depth decisions concerning CP as you suggest. It is absurd to think most players think things through at all, especially when you see their gear selections and builds. LOL, saw a player yesterday spamming the NB execute at 80%.

Most of us copy what others have already figured out that and much of that starts with a mathematical model that was prepared some time ago. So it really is not that complicated or in depth. But your idea of unshackling it would go in the opposite direction of what Zos attempted with front loading CP to begin with no matter how one tries to spin it. Regardless, I seriously doubt even Zos would see logic in your idea.

Lastly, you are confused if you think CP was an idea conceived leading up to launch. The game launched with VR which was widely disliked. Zos did not think of CP until well after the game launched and it was intended to be a replacement for the vet ranks. About a year after the game launched Zos implemented CP but admitted at the time they had yet to figure out how to remove VR itself which is because they do not think things through.

And your comment about leveling a character in an hour (a character I would not permit in a raid because it is far from ready) is not related to this at all. Seems more of a distraction.

NupidStoob

Lower the cap for CP

500 CP max for PvE and an adjustment to overperforming sets so that we can play mechanics in trials again rather than just ignore most of it.

No CP for PvP would also make balancing a lot easier there.

Won't happen anyways since for some reason people feel like their chars always need to progress.

Benemime

The System is fine as it is

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Personally I like the cp system. The game is currently balanced around it. So changing it would require a lot of changes and we all know how the community takes this kind of changes and the amount of time it takes for ZOS to balance certain skills with the amount of time it takes to watch and learn to see how the changes really affect the game.

People talk about how a power creep is coming from the cp system and while I think this true from a point. With every major update or quarter new content release. They release new more powerful sets that become the new BIS is certain situations.

The added 30 cp points every quarter is not really that much and does add a little progression. I think they did address this some when that changed the cp system to diminished returns with the more you add to each skill the less you get.

Yes god, yes cp

CatchMeTrolling

The system needs a change

NupidStoob wrote: »

500 CP max for PvE and an adjustment to overperforming sets so that we can play mechanics in trials again rather than just ignore most of it.

No CP for PvP would also make balancing a lot easier there.

Won't happen anyways since for some reason people feel like their chars always need to progress.

I too feel there needs to be a sense of progress but it can be a broad concept ranging from skills, perks, gear, rank, titles and achievements. Right now the games progression system isn’t feeling like much of a progression system. It has hit a wall. Gain an extra 30 cp just to get 1 percent? That’s if you get a percent at all. And even if you get a percent out of it it’s not needed. This is why I’m perplexed that it’s veteran players that’s okay with a system that has grown stagnant. The complete opposite of progression.

Daedric_NB_187

Other (Explain)

The only change I want to CP is for them to stop adding to it. When I started in September last year, the max was 660. I just finally got to that and the max is 810 now. It seems like a carrot I will never reach.