Why are Fallout players so much more vocal and effective than ESO players?

Vahrokh

As you might probably know, Fallout is not exactly scoring well.
With a 2.9 Metacritic rating and hundreds of strongly negative Youtube video reviews, you can see how it's not being "taken" well at all. Lots of lost sales, rolling heads in the headquarters and so on.

However

The game looks like an ESO: Fallout DLC. The graphics look similar (which surprised me, because ESO has to have "sufficient" graphics because it's a MMO). The "physics" look similar.
The up to 4 seconds lag when you fire is exactly the same stuff you get to experience in Cyrodil. Fallout AI is doing weird stuff exactly like Sorcs pets. You get constant glitches in Fallout as you experience every day in any ESO trial. Even the "random floating boxes" you can experience in Alinor (where you deposit craft dailies), you can find them in Fallout!

BUT

Fallout fans (because Fallout has a strong and dedicated following like the TES series) are rioting and causing all sorts of mayhem.

ESO? Some random thread, asking if it's OK that in 2018 you get seconds of lag in PvP, visibly worse ping times, lower frame rates (at Wolfhunter patch my brand new PC rendered ESO at 95 FPS, at Murkmire 45!!). Hideous and constant bugs in trials.

But no. Nothing happens. I can understand ZOS, they just tend to take the loooooong and calm approach to fixing stuff (including declaring some glitches as "we could not fix it so it becomes a feature" aka animation cancelling).
But I cannot understand the players.

ESO streamers? All calm and nice. They even face bugs while they record their umpteenth over 90000 DPS parse video but say nothing. ESO reviewers? I recall all of 2 guys talking about the evergreen, egregious bugs and performance drops of this game.
All fine and dandy.

So, what makes Fallout players so angry, but the same in ESO gets no attention, no real feedback?

The only 2 times in ESO history we had some strong feedback have been when we got regen nerf and, recently, magsorcs overnerf. That's it. More serious stuff, like hideous servers performance and years lasting bugs? Nobody says anything.

BTW what prompted me posting this?

Because I got ANNOYED, FOR REAL that since years my heavy lightning attacks still bug out and "lock" the character. It kills my DPS and I get this bug 1 attack out of 10, not out of 1000!
Or casting shields should be instant but it's not. Some times the character gets stuck into a "pooping" position (less than before latest patch-fix but still...) or shows the shield but you still get the full damage.
Or several trial effects just don't show up. We have 4-5 guys dying to some vCR 1 shot mechanic (so much for "making healers feel useful!!!) because they cannot see one of a zillion instant-death effects, while others can see it (we have voice chat, so we tell).

This is just unfair, that Fallout players can wreak havoc while ESO players look like happy Nancies.

dsalter

fallout 76 just came out in this horrific state. most fallouts main audience expected a compitant game that functions.
ESO's players gave up fighting back propperly and bend over to accept what is given to them now (hence crown store standards of limited time, bonus storage being store exclusive etc.) instead of making an impact.

i'm assuming alot of the main dev's also moved on a while ago tho no real evidence of this one but the direction the game has felt like its going seems... off. also the balancing team seriously needs to get new people in because their current team are abysmal and bias as hell, when most of a dev team is playing NB and Sorc over their other classes and balance around this then you end up with some serious bad times.

love the game but just like 76, it needs to seriously step up and stop focusing so hard on the cash shop and getting more jobs done.

BigBragg

ESO got a similar treatment when it launched. Possibly not as much vitriol, but close. Changes have been made. For all it's flaws the game is by and large better than it was.

As for Fallout, it is loaded with more bugs than rad roaches. A lot of the pain is also expectations versus reality. Many people wanted it to be Fallout 5, but with friends. That is not what it was designed to be at all.

Time will tell if one set of devs listens more than the other, though ZOS did help Bethesda with Fallout 76...

RexyCat

Didn't last single player Fallout also have big problems which caused large outcry among fans of that game?

Agobi

I made my dissatisfaction known by no longer giving Zo$ any of my money....


More players should do the same imo...but not my call

Stratloc

I mean, on this forum people are absolutely vocal about absolutely every change and absolutely every bug, so much that you would think the game is absolutely trash and absolutely unplayable. Absolutely broken, as they say.
But maybe that's just the forum.

Leeched

I will be honest: I really don't get all the hate about FO76. I did preoder, played the beta and play the game everyday now since release. I play with a couple of friends and we all enjoy it a lot (everyone says the game got them hooked). Yes, the game has LOTS of bugs (like quest kills who are already dead and won't respawn etc.) but I hope they will get fixed soon. On the other hand I have next to no lag and play on max settings (and my rig is 3+ years old). ESO on the other hand became 100% unplayble for me since Murkmire release. I only do PvP and I have a ping of 300+ and 10-20 FPS. Enemies dont render, attacks not going off, slideshow. ESO is 4+ years old now and every player who played since the beginning should have realized by now ZOS most likely will never change this. FO76 is new and maybe they will handle this game smarter (also since its Bethesda working on it and not Zenimax directly).

JumpmanLane

Stratloc wrote: »

I mean, on this forum people are absolutely vocal about absolutely every change and absolutely every bug, so much that you would think the game is absolutely trash and absolutely unplayable. Absolutely broken, as they say.
But maybe that's just the forum.

It is all those things you said. Random DC’s in your house. Ping spikes EVERYWHERE. TOO MUCH BAD stuff to even name in cyrodill. I’ve crashed and probably still stuck in combat or stuck running in place lol.

MajBludd

I call that the running man. I always wonder if I'm dead on the ground or if other players see me moonwalking dead.

Rungar

that's because eso is a great game despite its problems. If it was a bad game nobody would care.

idk

dsalter wrote: »

fallout 76 just came out in this horrific state. most fallouts main audience expected a compitant game that functions.
ESO's players gave up fighting back propperly and bend over to accept what is given to them now (hence crown store standards of limited time, bonus storage being store exclusive etc.) instead of making an impact.

Yes, we were vocal for a bit but came to realize that the Zos leadership was the reason behind the poor state of this game when it launched. Considering we still have the same person running the game and the company it is no wonder PvP still has lag issues and they continue to struggle to managing the game because they make such major changes that are clearly not though through very well.

The Uninvited

I guess we just gave up over the years and simply enjoy the game for what it is.

Glurin

BigBragg wrote: »

As for Fallout, it is loaded with more bugs than rad roaches. A lot of the pain is also expectations versus reality. Many people wanted it to be Fallout 5, but with friends. That is not what it was designed to be at all.

To be fair, ESO had that exact same problem. A lot of people expected Skyrim with multiplayer and threw a hissy fit when they got an MMO set in the Elder Scrolls universe instead.

Even so, FO76 has some serious design flaws IMO. Flaws that are going to be difficult to address. But if they can pull it off I can see FO76 becoming a decent game.

Slack

Stupid comparison is stupid

Fallout 76 is unfinished and in a horrible state, the world feels empty and lifeless.
I wonder if have even played it to compare the 2 games

Kadoin

Free Murkmire silenced me and my complaints...for now

Mr_Walker

A Bethesda game has loads of bugs? I'm shocked!

Glurin

RexyCat wrote: »

Didn't last single player Fallout also have big problems which caused large outcry among fans of that game?

A lot of that was, well, it can be summed up as something like a hate fad. You know, new big name title comes out and it's almost fashionable to be outraged about it for one reason or another. There were legitimate criticisms of course, but they had a tendency to get buried under a deluge of people complaining that it was the worst Fallout ever because one of the side quests had you planting a few tatos, for example.

DaveMoeDee

FO76 does not look like ESO DLC at all. It looks like FO4 DLC. It is the same engine. What makes game in that engine redeemable is (1) storytelling, (2) fun physics, and (3) mods. What doesn't make that engine fun is combat, which is the focus of FO76. And grouping isn't well supported in FO76.

And let's not misremember things. ESO did not have universally bad reviews. It generally had reviews on the low end of positive. It was just a polarizing game among TES fans. FO76 has generally horrible reviews. I own FO76 but I haven't touched it since launch because ESO is still more compelling and I still actually have things to do in ESO rather than walking around hoarding junk. Unfortunately for FO76, I'll probably grab a PS4 today and rdr2, spiderman, the last of us, and other exclusives might also take precedent over FO76. I don't dislike the game, but I'm a bit indifferent.

RavenSworn

Because maybe, just maybe... Eso is a better game than fallout 76?


And maybe, just maybe... It's made by two different dev teams?


Also also.. Eso has npcs?


Lots of difference between the two imo.

Cpt_Teemo

RavenSworn wrote: »

Because maybe, just maybe... Eso is a better game than fallout 76?


And maybe, just maybe... It's made by two different dev teams?


Also also.. Eso has npcs?


Lots of difference between the two imo.

FO76 is pretty good though aside from all the bugs and stuff lots of big ESO streamers are trying it out and are liking it

VaranisArano

You mean there's a difference in the complaints of fans of a 4 year old game who know exactly how the developers do and dont respond to bug fixes and performance issues
And
The complaints of brand new fans newly exchanging rose colored glasses or jade ones after a new game launches as the same buggy mess?

And that developers might be moreresponsive to bad reviews of their brand new game than the complaints of fans of a 4 year old game?

Who'da thunk it?

WuffyCerulei

People were expecting something similar to the previous Fallout games, but from what I’ve seen from reviews, it flopped. Lack of NPCs, many bugs, terrible graphics, bad quest interface, inability to do much of anything solo, etc. Essentially the exact opposite of how ESO is. ESO has issues, yes, but they didn’t neglect to fix bugs before the actual game was released.

NoTimeToWait

Well, that's easy. TESO has a lot of stuff going on even without buggy content. If you get buggy content out of Fallout 76, nothing is left

Elsonso

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

FO76 does not look like ESO DLC at all. It looks like FO4 DLC. It is the same engine. What makes game in that engine redeemable is (1) storytelling, (2) fun physics, and (3) mods. What doesn't make that engine fun is combat, which is the focus of FO76. And grouping isn't well supported in FO76.

This. Fallout 76 is built from a hybrid of two game engines and has positioned itself to be more like a shooter than an RPG. It needs fast server and internet response. It needs to be quick and responsive, like a battleground shooter game. Naturally, if it cannot deliver that, it will fail. People will complain.

ESO is not designed to be a shooter. It is intended to do better than it is, that much is certain, but it is not intended to compete with shooters.

NupidStoob

ESO was so much worse than it is right now when it first came out. They really botched the release and have been working ever since then to make up for the mistakes of the past. The game has come a long way compared to that so I assume at this point people have just accepted the current state.

I agree that bugs, performance and quality of life in this game need some serious looking at though.

Jamdarius

Vahrokh wrote: »

As you might probably know, Fallout is not exactly scoring well.
With a 2.9 Metacritic rating and hundreds of strongly negative Youtube video reviews, you can see how it's not being "taken" well at all. Lots of lost sales, rolling heads in the headquarters and so on.

However

The game looks like an ESO: Fallout DLC. The graphics look similar (which surprised me, because ESO has to have "sufficient" graphics because it's a MMO). The "physics" look similar.
The up to 4 seconds lag when you fire is exactly the same stuff you get to experience in Cyrodil. Fallout AI is doing weird stuff exactly like Sorcs pets. You get constant glitches in Fallout as you experience every day in any ESO trial. Even the "random floating boxes" you can experience in Alinor (where you deposit craft dailies), you can find them in Fallout!

BUT

Fallout fans (because Fallout has a strong and dedicated following like the TES series) are rioting and causing all sorts of mayhem.

ESO? Some random thread, asking if it's OK that in 2018 you get seconds of lag in PvP, visibly worse ping times, lower frame rates (at Wolfhunter patch my brand new PC rendered ESO at 95 FPS, at Murkmire 45!!). Hideous and constant bugs in trials.

But no. Nothing happens. I can understand ZOS, they just tend to take the loooooong and calm approach to fixing stuff (including declaring some glitches as "we could not fix it so it becomes a feature" aka animation cancelling).
But I cannot understand the players.

ESO streamers? All calm and nice. They even face bugs while they record their umpteenth over 90000 DPS parse video but say nothing. ESO reviewers? I recall all of 2 guys talking about the evergreen, egregious bugs and performance drops of this game.
All fine and dandy.

So, what makes Fallout players so angry, but the same in ESO gets no attention, no real feedback?

The only 2 times in ESO history we had some strong feedback have been when we got regen nerf and, recently, magsorcs overnerf. That's it. More serious stuff, like hideous servers performance and years lasting bugs? Nobody says anything.

BTW what prompted me posting this?

Because I got ANNOYED, FOR REAL that since years my heavy lightning attacks still bug out and "lock" the character. It kills my DPS and I get this bug 1 attack out of 10, not out of 1000!
Or casting shields should be instant but it's not. Some times the character gets stuck into a "pooping" position (less than before latest patch-fix but still...) or shows the shield but you still get the full damage.
Or several trial effects just don't show up. We have 4-5 guys dying to some vCR 1 shot mechanic (so much for "making healers feel useful!!!) because they cannot see one of a zillion instant-death effects, while others can see it (we have voice chat, so we tell).

This is just unfair, that Fallout players can wreak havoc while ESO players look like happy Nancies.

You know after 3-4 years idc anymore... bugs and ideas were posted ages ago - they do nothing, servers on weekends work like potato - they do nothing, they make the game imbalanced even more (Heavy armor + shields from tank skills/sets are so OP), Outfit system as I am glad they made it finally is not what I hoped to see (instead players could make outfit kits and sell them for other players if they know style, than the player that bought them would apply it on his/her armor part - the market woulf flourish), they make instead of good changes more "special offers" for cash grab", as far as I can see the so called class rep system is pure joke (few players tailoring game to suit them, yay grats, everyone will say that thx to them we dont have cast time damage shields - true but it is also cause of them we had shield nerfing to begin with, they cried shields are 2 powerful and healers are not useful <they still arent>), the new super DLC we got Murkmire was passed by me while reading all notes/hearing all dialogues in 4-6 days of chill playing so PvE "shrub" like me got rly nothing nice to look forward to anymore, housing started to be 2 expensive - mats are barely dropping and 1 wooden redoran fork needs 5 or 6 heartwood (gimem a break =.='). Not to mention they do not even know how to do marketing properly...

If we would get Clockwork furnishing for example with easy acces i bet a lot of us players would not mind buying the Prior Observatory... instead the state of game looks like this

A single recipe worth over 1,5m for a stupid furniture piece ... ( I ate it btw)

So ye people are just tired of fighting for a game when we do not get heard at all, skill design rly needs improvement, balance is nonexistent, they can only add new items for crowns to the store instead of fixing every little thing that is with us since the so long ago that I don't actually remember when it started.

RavenSworn

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Because maybe, just maybe... Eso is a better game than fallout 76?


And maybe, just maybe... It's made by two different dev teams?


Also also.. Eso has npcs?


Lots of difference between the two imo.

FO76 is pretty good though aside from all the bugs and stuff lots of big ESO streamers are trying it out and are liking it

Its good if you played FO4, because it uses the same type of graphics and engine. It's more comparable with the previous fallout titles than to compare it eso.

Even eso to me, is a different game than the previous es titles (for better or worse). It's an mmo, which Fo76 is not. It's a multiplayer game though but one with different mechanics than eso obviously. It also has no npc which in my book, was the deal breaker for me. Even playing the game of life, there's still 'npcs' around me. It's one thing to constantly have npc chasing you (I hate you stuga) but it's another when all you have to do in a vast world is to literally make your own.

I have no issues with Fo76 but I think the execution of the game was bad.

Ri_Khan

This game was also an absolute mess at launch to say the least. It took a while but it did improve. I only played for a short time before canceling the mandatory sub and moving on until things got better. If you really want to make a statement, that's the best thing you can do.

I'm not interested in paying for the opportunity to test games for a company that get's praised by Forbe's every quarter. The way publishers push half finished products on their so-called valued customers just because it's the first week of November is ridiculous. The gaming industry as a whole is doing very well right now so where exactly is all that money going?

I was stoked when I heard about 76 but didn't jump on the hype train and pre-order. The alpha, beta and early release tags have become synonymous with unfinished, rushed and lazy for me. I'll check it out if they can get it together eventually but if it's going to end up in the same boat as ESO, I'll probably pass.

Tandor

There's always a lot of initial vitriol when a new game launches, sometimes it's genuine and sometimes it's from diehard supporters of other games trying to do it down. ESO suffered from both at launch.

The reason more people aren't so vocal now about ESO may well be because it's only some players who experience the problems the vocal minority continue to complain about.

Flynch

ESO is something that, within a few degrees, is something enjoyable and a natural progression from the single player titles. It's not really part of the franchise, imo. It's an amazing extra that turns out is highly enjoyable. People who love ES will continue to do so, ESO or not.

F76 is a departure from the norm, because it's something noone really wanted, or if they did, i don't think it's what they imagined. It seems half-baked. And i think people see this as a natural progression for Fallout too, but it's so poorly handled, almost insultingly so, that the faith in the franchise is being fractured.

In short, ES will continue regardless of ESO's success/failure. FO is dead in the water because of 76. And people know this.

Darkstorne

@Vahrokh Either you weren't here when ESO was announced and eventually released, or you've forgotten about the riots

Don't forget this game was first unveiled with cartoon visuals and proportions (some of the early armour styles still have it), no first person system at all (and devs were shocked that it was so highly requested), and the entire game was built on the premise of a three versus three faction war story that has all but been abandoned since the One Tamriel update. Today we have to pretend to ignore the faction elements in the zone stories, since they don't fit with the TES-style "travel anywhere" gameplay now.

If anything, ESO is an indication that Bethesda/Zenimax will be willing to listen to Fallout fans and invest the time and money into radically changing 76 into something fun. ESO was a boring and poorly reviewed game at launch too (not as bad as 76 though, sure) but is now widely considered to be one of the most enjoyable and best supported MMOs on the market.