Why are Fallout players so much more vocal and effective than ESO players?

Davor

Vahrokh wrote: »

This is just unfair, that Fallout players can wreak havoc while ESO players look like happy Nancies.

Uhm, when did you start playing ESO or come to the ESO forums? We are nothing happy Nancies and complain, a lot. If we didn't complain, how come we have One Tamriel? If we didn't complain how come we don't have to pay a monthly fee? If we don't complain how come we are getting monthly rewards?

If we didn't complain, how come we have controller support on PC? It's actually quite amazing what Zenimax Online Studios have given us. Lot of it wouldn't have been if the higher ups didn't tell the to do give us that stuff. The way I see it, what they can't fix, or the higher ups will not let them fix because it's not "cost effective", they do other stuff. We wouldn't have loot bags in ESO+ if we didn't complain. We wouldn't be getting more crowns per month if we didn't complain. We wouldn't be getting exclusives for ESO+ if we didn't complain.

So while nobody is asking for this stuff, why is Zenimax doing it? To deflect and not talk about what is the real problem. So we are either happy with what Zenimax did, or complain about what they just did and not complain about the problems we complained about before.

If we didn't complain we wouldn't be getting free pixels.

*edit*

Yeah if we never complained we would have never got Orsinium.

danno8

76 took a super old engine, made no improvements or bug fixes, removed all the NPC's and the stories (replacing them with recordings and computer terminals) added nearly nothing new or interesting and released this dead world to the public.

Oh, there are other people in this world too. Not that it really matters to the game play at all.

The reason 76 gets such loud, bad reviews is because it comes off as a monumentally lazy effort by a company that has created some of the best games ever.

karekiz

Well its probably because Fallout a series known for its questing and freedom.

1. Is now a fetch quest crappy destiny/rust/borderlands clone, without even the story from destiny nor the player story from Rust, and especially not the diablo style borderlands loot.
2. Doesn't know what it wants to be. Is it a a blank slate that costs full retail, and it can't even get the basics down.

Say what you want about ESO, but hoenstly is a thousand times better in *one* DLC than Fallout 76 is in total.

Tandor

danno8 wrote: »

76 took a super old engine, made no improvements or bug fixes, removed all the NPC's and the stories (replacing them with recordings and computer terminals) added nearly nothing new or interesting and released this dead world to the public.

Oh, there are other people in this world too. Not that it really matters to the game play at all.

The reason 76 gets such loud, bad reviews is because it comes off as a monumentally lazy effort by a company that has created some of the best games ever.

On top of which, they decided that it would be a good idea to make their first multiplayer version of Fallout an open PvP game. Madness.

starkerealm

Vahrokh wrote: »

As you might probably know, Fallout is not exactly scoring well.
With a 2.9 Metacritic rating and hundreds of strongly negative Youtube video reviews, you can see how it's not being "taken" well at all. Lots of lost sales, rolling heads in the headquarters and so on.

However

The game looks like an ESO: Fallout DLC. The graphics look similar (which surprised me, because ESO has to have "sufficient" graphics because it's a MMO). The "physics" look similar.

76 is running on the same engine as Fallout 4. A lot of the issues in 76 are immediately familiar if you've played 4. It'd be a bit reductive to say that 76 has just had netcode bolted to the engine, but it's not far from the truth.

Ironically, F76 is exactly what a lot of players were asking for back in 2014. It really is, "Fallout with Friends," instead of an actual MMO. It's also Bethesda Game Studio's first attempt at multiplayer since the 90s.

ESO actually is an MMO. Fallout's not. It's something else, where there isn't really a true analogy in the industry right now.

Dojohoda

Fallout 76 is like a bone tossed to fallout fans. When they find that the bone has no meat, they're gonna bark.

StrawberryKitsune

To be fair I don't think there are any left to care at this point. Just was in Kyne PC EU and it's dead. Used to be a great lively campaign and now it's empty. I know others are going to say that the game has never fel more alive and populated but for me it's looking like a ghost town right now. Never seen nso few people.

Elsonso

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

FO76 is pretty good though aside from all the bugs and stuff lots of big ESO streamers are trying it out and are liking it

Bethesda has a marketing machine that is amazing. They could market snow to Eskimos, and Twitch would be wall to wall streams of snow storms. In my more melancholy moods, I wonder what Bethesda marketing would do if they turned their attention to ESO.

Tandor wrote: »

(Bethesda) decided that it would be a good idea to make their first multiplayer version of Fallout an open PvP game. Madness.

I agree. Of course, Fallout 76 is what it is because it is not really being created by the same studio that did Fallout 3 and 4. Sure, the Fallout people helped out, but it is a child of BattleCry Studios, now Bethesda Game Studios Austin. It seems to be a blend of the discontinued BattleCry PVP game and Fallout 4.

Kiralyn2000

Comparing an old, established MMO (with the bitter, grumbling, Stockholm-syndrome fanbase that old, established MMOs grow on their forums), to a newly-released, hyped, survival/crafting/pvp game & the rampaging Internet Hate Machine screaming on Youtube.... well, that's silly.


Personally, I take any complaint waves with a grain of salt, because I know how worked-up the general Internet streamer/screamer types get. I'm pretty sure FO76 isn't remotely as bad as it's press, just like I'm sure ME:Andromeda wasn't. Perfect games? Not at all. But worthy of the frothing rage that echoes back and forth the web? /eyeroll

(and people still pay attention to Metacritic? Really?)



I didn't get FO76 because I've no interest in MP/PvP/Survival games. If it'd had a 'private server' mode, I'd likely have grabbed it. And from the sound of things, enjoyed it.

starkerealm

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

To be fair I don't think there are any left to care at this point. Just was in Kyne PC EU and it's dead. Used to be a great lively campaign and now it's empty. I know others are going to say that the game has never fel more alive and populated but for me it's looking like a ghost town right now. Never seen nso few people.

Maybe less relevant for the EU server, but it's a holiday weekend in The States. So, there's a lot of people with family, or otherwise occupied right now.

Tandor

starkerealm wrote: »

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

To be fair I don't think there are any left to care at this point. Just was in Kyne PC EU and it's dead. Used to be a great lively campaign and now it's empty. I know others are going to say that the game has never fel more alive and populated but for me it's looking like a ghost town right now. Never seen nso few people.

Maybe less relevant for the EU server, but it's a holiday weekend in The States. So, there's a lot of people with family, or otherwise occupied right now.

Not only that, but there's an event on. A lot of players are struggling to fit in their normal gameplay as this is the second of four events and the rewards are all linked so it's unlikely that normal dungeons and campaigns will be as well populated as usual for the next month or more.

Acrolas

Outrage isn't effective. Tantrums on the Internet are not effective.

It's okay to have opinions. It's okay to have strong, aggressive opinions. But when those opinions turn into demands, and you demand that your opinion be turned into fact, then there's a problem. Quality control is a constant battle and yes, there's always room somewhere to streamline or incrementally improve something.

There's a very very important difference between bug reports and systems feedback, and demanding that a game you don't like turn itself into a game that you will like because because the developer applied vision doesn't match your ideal vision.


Like I've said elsewhere, your right doesn't make it their wrong.

FakeFox

Fallout 76 came out in a pretty much unplayable state with Bethesda openly lying to the costumers, all while not bringing anything great to the table to begin with in the general opinion. Of course ESO has it's problems but thats a entirely different scale.

Apart from that what happens with Fallout right now works for a new release not for a four year old established game. People are for the most part not trying to make Fallout 76 better but to kill it so that something like this never happens again. For ESO this would not work because we are already connected with the game and killing it would hurt us more then anyone else. Fallout 76 failing will very likely lead to the next Bethesda games learning from it's mistakes, ESO failing would more likely lead to ZOS being shut down and us never seeing a ES-MMO again.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

In Fallout 76 the Devs listened and actually responded in the Bethesda forums as to what they are fixing and what will be added/changed in the future. Now this wasn't a two year response as we seem to see from ZOS. This was pretty much instant. We got a 30 Gig patch right off the bat for PC in Fallout 76. Then another smaller patch of 15.1 Gig shortly there after. Hmmm...when have we seen ZOS EVER do that? When the Crown store is bugged?

So in Fallout 76 we are pointing out issues and Bethesda is listening. With a positive feedback to customers...oh yes...CUSTOMERS pointing out problems Bethesda is actually fixing problems. I've already put a lot of hours into Fallout 76 starting during the PC Beta phase and am thoroughly enjoying the game. As for bugs I haven't seen many at all lately and the game seems to be very stable. In the last ten or so hours of game play I have had no crashes. I have seen my "World" go down for unplanned maintenance but unlike ESO if your "World" goes down usually all you have to do is click "PLAY" again and it loads you into another world on another server. Imagine that, more than one server.....mind boggling!

My point is us Customers have pointed out issues and continue to do so and Bethesda listens and fixes them. We get positive reinforcement for doing so. Not so much in ESO. With the lack of response and definitely the lack of fixing severe issues in ESO we have become use to this treatment. Now Fallout 76 is a new game and I'm sure is severely lacking in sales due to the bugs and the Streamers blasting reviews all over the Internet. So Bethesda is reacting. Maybe it's only for sales? Only time will tell if Fallout 76 goes the route of ESO. Let's hope not.

Oh, and Fallout 76 is on sale atm for $40.19. Standard version. Great game in my opinion!

MLGProPlayer

You must not have been around when ESO launched.

Elsonso

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

To be fair I don't think there are any left to care at this point. Just was in Kyne PC EU and it's dead. Used to be a great lively campaign and now it's empty. I know others are going to say that the game has never fel more alive and populated but for me it's looking like a ghost town right now. Never seen nso few people.

Well, you called it. There are piles of people in Clockwork City right now. Imperfect and the Crows are dying in just a few seconds. You have to be right on top of an incursion point because if you have to run to it, you might not make it before the second wave is dead. PC EU.

zaria

BigBragg wrote: »

ESO got a similar treatment when it launched. Possibly not as much vitriol, but close. Changes have been made. For all it's flaws the game is by and large better than it was.

As for Fallout, it is loaded with more bugs than rad roaches. A lot of the pain is also expectations versus reality. Many people wanted it to be Fallout 5, but with friends. That is not what it was designed to be at all.

Time will tell if one set of devs listens more than the other, though ZOS did help Bethesda with Fallout 76...

Yes, note that ESO had lots of problems on launch.

However like ESO lots wanted skyrim multiplayer, something who would not work because of lots of reasons.
And that they would get would be more like Fallout 76 than Skyrim.

And Fallout 76 has plenty of problems to but lots just punishing it for that it is, private servers from the start would help a lot I think

Synthwavius

That's because Bethesda invested huge money and wants revenue. They have no choice but to fix their mess while getting review bombarded left, right, center. I don't think it has much to do with fans. It's also one of their flagships.

ShadowHvo

You clearly wherent here for launch.

People like to throw slobber at ZoS alot, but its undeniable that they have vastly improved the game over time.

If they hadnt, I doubt the game would still be live. But as it stands, ESO is a pretty good game.

SHADOW2KK

ESO at launch was hilariously bad, who cares about Fallout, this is ESO forums.

Vahrokh

Acrolas wrote: »

Outrage isn't effective. Tantrums on the Internet are not effective.

It's okay to have opinions. It's okay to have strong, aggressive opinions. But when those opinions turn into demands, and you demand that your opinion be turned into fact, then there's a problem. Quality control is a constant battle and yes, there's always room somewhere to streamline or incrementally improve something.

There's a very very important difference between bug reports and systems feedback, and demanding that a game you don't like turn itself into a game that you will like because because the developer applied vision doesn't match your ideal vision.


Like I've said elsewhere, your right doesn't make it their wrong.

Why can MY company (I am CEO of) customers demand that MY company products are good but I cannot demand ZOS products fullfill basic technical quality?

I am not demanding ESO gets rainbow unicorns. Just that when I shoot abilities they actually go off, when I play a trial I see stuff. When I join a group I don't have to retry 4-5 times because "player is busy" (since 2014) or that I have to retry 4-5 times to queue a pledge.

I am not even demanding to have October bugs to be fixed, but 2014-2015 bugs.

Am I really asking too much?

SHADOW2KK

Vahrokh wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

Outrage isn't effective. Tantrums on the Internet are not effective.

It's okay to have opinions. It's okay to have strong, aggressive opinions. But when those opinions turn into demands, and you demand that your opinion be turned into fact, then there's a problem. Quality control is a constant battle and yes, there's always room somewhere to streamline or incrementally improve something.

There's a very very important difference between bug reports and systems feedback, and demanding that a game you don't like turn itself into a game that you will like because because the developer applied vision doesn't match your ideal vision.


Like I've said elsewhere, your right doesn't make it their wrong.

Why can MY company (I am CEO of) customers demand that MY company products are good but I cannot demand ZOS products fullfill basic technical quality?

I am not demanding ESO gets rainbow unicorns. Just that when I shoot abilities they actually go off, when I play a trial I see stuff. When I join a group I don't have to retry 4-5 times because "player is busy" (since 2014) or that I have to retry 4-5 times to queue a pledge.

I am not even demanding to have October bugs to be fixed, but 2014-2015 bugs.

Am I really asking too much?

Well said, and bang on right.

Just common sense, not an opinion or anything, just common sense to have a company that actually cares about making the game experience as good as possible, part of that is to make sure bugs are fixed pronto, it is their job to make it happen, and for some of us from closed beta days, we have seen everything.

Vahrokh

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You must not have been around when ESO launched.

A picture tells more than 1000 words, doesn't it?




See, there's a distinct situation between 2014 and 2018.

In 2014, you would have been right and I'd have been dead wrong to ask for bugs to be "instantly" fixed.

In 2018, however, you are wrong and I am right to ask for 2014 bugs to be finally fixed.

Acrolas

Vahrokh wrote: »

Why can MY company (I am CEO of) customers demand that MY company products are good but I cannot demand ZOS products fullfill basic technical quality?

Because manufacturing physical products has its own type of quality control, insurance, and warranty through several levels of distribution (factory, freight, warehouse, retail, customer). In many instances, customer service never makes it back to the manufacturer.

Services don't work the same way. Online services are not staffed to troubleshoot the unique problems of every individual, and because there are malicious people out there, ZOS has to sacrifice some quality for security.

Also, your company probably doesn't use a clickwrap to limit your liabilities. If you want room to rant, don't agree to a clickwrap.

Royaji

Vahrokh wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

Outrage isn't effective. Tantrums on the Internet are not effective.

It's okay to have opinions. It's okay to have strong, aggressive opinions. But when those opinions turn into demands, and you demand that your opinion be turned into fact, then there's a problem. Quality control is a constant battle and yes, there's always room somewhere to streamline or incrementally improve something.

There's a very very important difference between bug reports and systems feedback, and demanding that a game you don't like turn itself into a game that you will like because because the developer applied vision doesn't match your ideal vision.


Like I've said elsewhere, your right doesn't make it their wrong.

Why can MY company (I am CEO of) customers demand that MY company products are good but I cannot demand ZOS products fullfill basic technical quality?

I am not demanding ESO gets rainbow unicorns. Just that when I shoot abilities they actually go off, when I play a trial I see stuff. When I join a group I don't have to retry 4-5 times because "player is busy" (since 2014) or that I have to retry 4-5 times to queue a pledge.

I am not even demanding to have October bugs to be fixed, but 2014-2015 bugs.

Am I really asking too much?

Because you are not a CEO of ZOS? And whatever kind of leadership is there in ZOS they do not consider technical state of the game to be such a priority? You are a customer here and it makes a big difference.

SInce you can't bring ZOS to court on the basis of false advertising and selling you a "defective" product (see EULA we have all agreed to) there is only so much you can do to show your dissatisfaction. Do not buy anything from them. Tell you friends to not buy anything from them. Write an angry review somewhere telling people to not buy anything from them.

But objectively you are in no position to demand anything from ZOS. Games are a business and we should treat them as such. ZOS is not a bunch of indie guys who really like making games so we all can play them.

Gaeliator

Be ware, they may close the thread for "being off-topic". No offense and hope I'm wrong about this.

Lord_Eomer

Slack wrote: »

Stupid comparison is stupid

Fallout 76 is unfinished and in a horrible state, the world feels empty and lifeless.
I wonder if have even played it to compare the 2 games

This ^

Fallout 76 is failing badly. Bethesda need TES VI asap.

Girl_Number8

Jameliel wrote: »

ESO is known for being mediocre and only good for casual pve. It caters to people who buy crowns, houses etc. A lot of older players and handicapped, depressed/sick people play it. Most of us are waiting and hoping new versions of our old favorites are created before we die. In general mmos just suck these days.

I am sure all the vets that play luv you. In my guild thank goodness we don't have such a toxic player as this. "Karma, there is your bullseye."

StrawberryKitsune

starkerealm wrote: »

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

To be fair I don't think there are any left to care at this point. Just was in Kyne PC EU and it's dead. Used to be a great lively campaign and now it's empty. I know others are going to say that the game has never fel more alive and populated but for me it's looking like a ghost town right now. Never seen nso few people.

Maybe less relevant for the EU server, but it's a holiday weekend in The States. So, there's a lot of people with family, or otherwise occupied right now.

Yeah as far as I am aware that isn't the case in the EU as this isn't a holiday/celebration weekend. At least not in the UK. We don't do Thanksgiving.

arakis99ub17_ESO

Ironically, I just unsubbed from ESO and used the money I was about to spend on crowns to buy FO76 (35 usd on sale at gmg). Despite the reported bugs, this isn't a large amount of money to play a game with some enjoyable bits.

ESO players are vocal in voting with their dollars. If they are vocal in this sub, the thread gets locked.