Legend EU - Dueling Tournament 18.11

Lord-Otto

Koensol wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Tirps wrote: »

lol, dks are not allowed to use wings against mag nbs but shimmering shield is okay?

Wings spam literally stops the fight from progressing. Shade & Cripple prevent a wingless DK from ever getting in melee, which also stops the fight from progressing.

Some of you are way out of touch. The goal of rules is to ensure that DUELS END IN A REASONABLE TIME WITH A CLEAR VICTOR.

It´s the same against a sorc though.

Not like you can burst some 28k hp build with just curse fury and meteor. Which rules out all sorc builds that don´t run pulse.

And then realisticly - which dk dies to pulse + curse alone?

Completely agreed. Wings is just a stupidly unbalanced skill for 1v1's. It really makes me laugh hard when some forum hero comes and posts garbage like: "Just use curse", "just use concealed weapon" or "then don't use ranged attacks". These people are just completely clueless on how abilities synergize with each other. You can't just slap on random abilities and expect to have a chance.

Even worse are the people that say "Yea you are just being countered, live with it. You can't have it all", or those that compare it to cloak. I mean it's not like I can use cloak while I am hammering on you, and at the same time preventing you from using any skill on your front bar to apply counter pressure without damaging yourself...

Cast time on wings! Wings capped at 40% max health!
*maniacal laughter*

Yeah, mag DKs are just OP in duels. They make many other classes uncompetitive, not only magblades. Magblades can at least go melee. Sorcs are completely screwed. Vampires are screwed, if they don't lower stage, at which point you can better get it cured totally. Honestly, every build with mediocre stam and dodge sustain will be screwed by DK's root spam eventually.

Maybe the well-known overperforming classes should fight themselves in their own bracket?

olsborg

Id watch this, if it wasnt for the fact that I currently not playing anymore hf tho

Minno

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Tirps wrote: »

lol, dks are not allowed to use wings against mag nbs but shimmering shield is okay?

Wings spam literally stops the fight from progressing. Shade & Cripple prevent a wingless DK from ever getting in melee, which also stops the fight from progressing.

Some of you are way out of touch. The goal of rules is to ensure that DUELS END IN A REASONABLE TIME WITH A CLEAR VICTOR.

It´s the same against a sorc though.

Not like you can burst some 28k hp build with just curse fury and meteor. Which rules out all sorc builds that don´t run pulse.

And then realisticly - which dk dies to pulse + curse alone?

Completely agreed. Wings is just a stupidly unbalanced skill for 1v1's. It really makes me laugh hard when some forum hero comes and posts garbage like: "Just use curse", "just use concealed weapon" or "then don't use ranged attacks". These people are just completely clueless on how abilities synergize with each other. You can't just slap on random abilities and expect to have a chance.

Even worse are the people that say "Yea you are just being countered, live with it. You can't have it all", or those that compare it to cloak. I mean it's not like I can use cloak while I am hammering on you, and at the same time preventing you from using any skill on your front bar to apply counter pressure without damaging yourself...

Cast time on wings! Wings capped at 40% max health!
*maniacal laughter*

Yeah, mag DKs are just OP in duels. They make many other classes uncompetitive, not only magblades. Magblades can at least go melee. Sorcs are completely screwed. Vampires are screwed, if they don't lower stage, at which point you can better get it cured totally. Honestly, every build with mediocre stam and dodge sustain will be screwed by DK's root spam eventually.

Maybe the well-known overperforming classes should fight themselves in their own bracket?

Banning wings/pets, but not total dark/cloak/purge is weird. They are essentially the same mechanic, one that helps you counter entire playstyles be it DOT or single target.

The rules should open them all up or close them all down

Koensol

Minno wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Tirps wrote: »

lol, dks are not allowed to use wings against mag nbs but shimmering shield is okay?

Wings spam literally stops the fight from progressing. Shade & Cripple prevent a wingless DK from ever getting in melee, which also stops the fight from progressing.

Some of you are way out of touch. The goal of rules is to ensure that DUELS END IN A REASONABLE TIME WITH A CLEAR VICTOR.

It´s the same against a sorc though.

Not like you can burst some 28k hp build with just curse fury and meteor. Which rules out all sorc builds that don´t run pulse.

And then realisticly - which dk dies to pulse + curse alone?

Completely agreed. Wings is just a stupidly unbalanced skill for 1v1's. It really makes me laugh hard when some forum hero comes and posts garbage like: "Just use curse", "just use concealed weapon" or "then don't use ranged attacks". These people are just completely clueless on how abilities synergize with each other. You can't just slap on random abilities and expect to have a chance.

Even worse are the people that say "Yea you are just being countered, live with it. You can't have it all", or those that compare it to cloak. I mean it's not like I can use cloak while I am hammering on you, and at the same time preventing you from using any skill on your front bar to apply counter pressure without damaging yourself...

Cast time on wings! Wings capped at 40% max health!
*maniacal laughter*

Yeah, mag DKs are just OP in duels. They make many other classes uncompetitive, not only magblades. Magblades can at least go melee. Sorcs are completely screwed. Vampires are screwed, if they don't lower stage, at which point you can better get it cured totally. Honestly, every build with mediocre stam and dodge sustain will be screwed by DK's root spam eventually.

Maybe the well-known overperforming classes should fight themselves in their own bracket?

Banning wings/pets, but not total dark/cloak/purge is weird. They are essentially the same mechanic, one that helps you counter entire playstyles be it DOT or single target.

The rules should open them all up or close them all down

No. They are not the same mechanic. Wings doesn't just offer defense, it also shoots all the projectile based attacks back at the opponent, removing any and all possibility of applying counter pressure on a ranged projectile build. Total dark can be broken free of so that isn't the same either. Trust me I have dueled many people on my destro/resto magblade in the past. Nothing in this game hardcounters a class like wings does to ranged builds. Not even piercing mark holds a candle to wings. The only option you have is going full defensive and using resto heavy attacks to eat the wing stacks, only for them te be reapplied immediately. Such fun.

pieratsos

Koensol wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Tirps wrote: »

lol, dks are not allowed to use wings against mag nbs but shimmering shield is okay?

Wings spam literally stops the fight from progressing. Shade & Cripple prevent a wingless DK from ever getting in melee, which also stops the fight from progressing.

Some of you are way out of touch. The goal of rules is to ensure that DUELS END IN A REASONABLE TIME WITH A CLEAR VICTOR.

It´s the same against a sorc though.

Not like you can burst some 28k hp build with just curse fury and meteor. Which rules out all sorc builds that don´t run pulse.

And then realisticly - which dk dies to pulse + curse alone?

Completely agreed. Wings is just a stupidly unbalanced skill for 1v1's. It really makes me laugh hard when some forum hero comes and posts garbage like: "Just use curse", "just use concealed weapon" or "then don't use ranged attacks". These people are just completely clueless on how abilities synergize with each other. You can't just slap on random abilities and expect to have a chance.

Even worse are the people that say "Yea you are just being countered, live with it. You can't have it all", or those that compare it to cloak. I mean it's not like I can use cloak while I am hammering on you, and at the same time preventing you from using any skill on your front bar to apply counter pressure without damaging yourself...

Cast time on wings! Wings capped at 40% max health!
*maniacal laughter*

Yeah, mag DKs are just OP in duels. They make many other classes uncompetitive, not only magblades. Magblades can at least go melee. Sorcs are completely screwed. Vampires are screwed, if they don't lower stage, at which point you can better get it cured totally. Honestly, every build with mediocre stam and dodge sustain will be screwed by DK's root spam eventually.

Maybe the well-known overperforming classes should fight themselves in their own bracket?

Banning wings/pets, but not total dark/cloak/purge is weird. They are essentially the same mechanic, one that helps you counter entire playstyles be it DOT or single target.

The rules should open them all up or close them all down

Nothing in this game hardcounters a class like wings does to ranged builds. Not even piercing mark holds a candle to wings. The only option you have is going full defensive and using resto heavy attacks to eat the wing stacks, only for them te be reapplied immediately. Such fun.

You should try shieldbreaker against shields.

Aedaryl

@TheRealSniker

I know you got bad experience with pets sorcs, but instead of banning targetable pets, make people hwo LoS intentionally inside pets auto loose.

You can easely fight outside atro and matriarch as a pet sorc and make the fight non problematic for the ennemy.

Also, in duel, people go outside of atronach most of the time.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

If the goal is to have fights end in a reasonable timeframe, and siphoner is freely available to everyone. Why ban siphoner? It just counteracts regen CP.

Ashamray

I like these rules. Good luck!

Minno

Koensol wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Tirps wrote: »

lol, dks are not allowed to use wings against mag nbs but shimmering shield is okay?

Wings spam literally stops the fight from progressing. Shade & Cripple prevent a wingless DK from ever getting in melee, which also stops the fight from progressing.

Some of you are way out of touch. The goal of rules is to ensure that DUELS END IN A REASONABLE TIME WITH A CLEAR VICTOR.

It´s the same against a sorc though.

Not like you can burst some 28k hp build with just curse fury and meteor. Which rules out all sorc builds that don´t run pulse.

And then realisticly - which dk dies to pulse + curse alone?

Completely agreed. Wings is just a stupidly unbalanced skill for 1v1's. It really makes me laugh hard when some forum hero comes and posts garbage like: "Just use curse", "just use concealed weapon" or "then don't use ranged attacks". These people are just completely clueless on how abilities synergize with each other. You can't just slap on random abilities and expect to have a chance.

Even worse are the people that say "Yea you are just being countered, live with it. You can't have it all", or those that compare it to cloak. I mean it's not like I can use cloak while I am hammering on you, and at the same time preventing you from using any skill on your front bar to apply counter pressure without damaging yourself...

Cast time on wings! Wings capped at 40% max health!
*maniacal laughter*

Yeah, mag DKs are just OP in duels. They make many other classes uncompetitive, not only magblades. Magblades can at least go melee. Sorcs are completely screwed. Vampires are screwed, if they don't lower stage, at which point you can better get it cured totally. Honestly, every build with mediocre stam and dodge sustain will be screwed by DK's root spam eventually.

Maybe the well-known overperforming classes should fight themselves in their own bracket?

Banning wings/pets, but not total dark/cloak/purge is weird. They are essentially the same mechanic, one that helps you counter entire playstyles be it DOT or single target.

The rules should open them all up or close them all down

No. They are not the same mechanic. Wings doesn't just offer defense, it also shoots all the projectile based attacks back at the opponent, removing any and all possibility of applying counter pressure on a ranged projectile build. Total dark can be broken free of so that isn't the same either. Trust me I have dueled many people on my destro/resto magblade in the past. Nothing in this game hardcounters a class like wings does to ranged builds. Not even piercing mark holds a candle to wings. The only option you have is going full defensive and using resto heavy attacks to eat the wing stacks, only for them te be reapplied immediately. Such fun.

I mean they are with just a difference in counters. Like total dark is break free, but if you aren't using dots/AOE then it's an ability that makes fighting magplar frustrating.

For wings, it takes it a step further in that 3 attacks will hit you back. But only ranged, but excluding force pulse, any melee attack, AOE applied dots. My experience with wings is most of the time my Templar crit buff kept getting reflected along with my major defile source. But instead of creating a rule where my target has to deslot it or else I'm telling his mother, I opt for a crit pot and AOE dot that procs a poison generated dot which procs skoria (all ignore wings) or a defile poison.

But that's me.

SHADOW2KK

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lol @ Dem rules

Lol @ you

Rules are necessary and those are good ones.

What's up with fake Big Boss

( For those of you wondering, the real Big Boss is French and ONLY WRITES IN CAPS )

Very true, said a number of times to this wannabe.

ll_Rev

Waffennacht wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Tirps wrote: »

lol, dks are not allowed to use wings against mag nbs but shimmering shield is okay?

Wings spam literally stops the fight from progressing. Shade & Cripple prevent a wingless DK from ever getting in melee, which also stops the fight from progressing.

Some of you are way out of touch. The goal of rules is to ensure that DUELS END IN A REASONABLE TIME WITH A CLEAR VICTOR.

Just for argument's sake, I feel that limits playstyles and builds.

What if a player prefers a tanky build that utilizes an opponent's mistake to win? That takes time; unlike many glass cannon type builds that are more akin to whom hits their CC first?

Also curious as to what's the difference between frost staff reach vs cripple?

Also I would say any class without native access to defile is at a big disadvantage

"What if a player prefers a tanky build that utilizes an opponent's mistake to win? That takes time; unlike many glass cannon type builds that are more akin to whom hits their CC first?"
That is what we are trying to avoid, experienced players with somehow tanky builds will never kill eachother
Its a common thing for a duel to last for an hour or two between 2 top tier players
Its too easy to make yourself unkillable in ESO
We are trying to discourage that and have a fun and skillfull night

And no, in a Glasscannon vs Glasscannon fight theres lots more to it than just "whoever gets their burst down first, wins"
Players have to watch out for incoming damage, predict your enemies next move and exploit the burst windows youre given
Even a Glasscannon player is almost unkillable if he doesnt want to be killed

"Also I would say any class without native access to defile is at a big disadvantage"
Yes this is exactly what Ive been talking about in my answer above, Defile plays a big part in duels due to how hard to kill people are without Defile on them, what youre mentioning now here is just how our current meta works
Thankfully things like Reverb, Shifting Standard and Defile poisons exist

I understand, I just don't consider that fun, I find tanky fun but that's just my opinion

well then you're an outlier because no one else wants duels full of tanky builds with hour long duels.

TheRealSniker

These are the winning builds:
1# StamSorc with Knightslayers, Torugs and Werewolf
2# Stamplar with X, Bone Pirate and Bloodspawn
3# MagSorc with Shacklebreaker, Lich and Chudan
4# MagPlar with Innate Axiom, Transmutation and Skoria
5# StamDK with X, Fury and Bloodspawn

Just as a side note, we had 3 Nightblades join, a MagBlade and 2 Stamblades which lost in 1st and 2nd rounds.
@Aedaryl @olsborg @ll_Rev @CyrusArya @Waffennacht @oxygen_thief

Rake

Rules made by nightblade 100%

THE_BIG_BOSS

TheRealSniker wrote: »

These are the winning builds:
1# StamSorc with Knightslayers, Torugs and Werewolf
2# Stamplar with X, Bone Pirate and Bloodspawn
3# MagSorc with Shacklebreaker, Lich and Chudan
4# MagPlar with Innate Axiom, Transmutation and Skoria
5# StamDK with X, Fury and Bloodspawn

Just as a side note, we had 3 Nightblades join, a MagBlade and 2 Stamblades which lost in 1st and 2nd rounds.
@Aedaryl @olsborg @ll_Rev @CyrusArya @Waffennacht @oxygen_thief

I Hope the First Guy uninstalls His game

Waffennacht

.

TheRealSniker wrote: »

These are the winning builds:
1# StamSorc with Knightslayers, Torugs and Werewolf
2# Stamplar with X, Bone Pirate and Bloodspawn
3# MagSorc with Shacklebreaker, Lich and Chudan
4# MagPlar with Innate Axiom, Transmutation and Skoria
5# StamDK with X, Fury and Bloodspawn

Just as a side note, we had 3 Nightblades join, a MagBlade and 2 Stamblades which lost in 1st and 2nd rounds.
@Aedaryl @olsborg @ll_Rev @CyrusArya @Waffennacht @oxygen_thief

Ty for the tag! Btw is X a secret or is it short for something? (Just curious, if it's like a secret no worries)

ATomiX96

ofc a oblivion torugs build won
besides that, pretty normal setups tbh.

TheRealSniker

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

TheRealSniker wrote: »

These are the winning builds:
1# StamSorc with Knightslayers, Torugs and Werewolf
2# Stamplar with X, Bone Pirate and Bloodspawn
3# MagSorc with Shacklebreaker, Lich and Chudan
4# MagPlar with Innate Axiom, Transmutation and Skoria
5# StamDK with X, Fury and Bloodspawn

Just as a side note, we had 3 Nightblades join, a MagBlade and 2 Stamblades which lost in 1st and 2nd rounds.
@Aedaryl @olsborg @ll_Rev @CyrusArya @Waffennacht @oxygen_thief

Ty for the tag! Btw is X a secret or is it short for something? (Just curious, if it's like a secret no worries)

I figured some of the winners dont like sharing their whole build, so the X is for a set that you can go on and guess yourself :P

Aznox

1# StamSorc with Knightslayers, Torugs and Werewolf

My third set was Chudan

Juhasow

You know that dueling in the game is garbage when for duel tournament to even happen there has to be long list of banned things to prevent cheesing and then winner still was the person in build full of cheese , because there is so much cheese it's impossible to ban all of it. It's actually pretty sad how bad turn duels took in this game during last years.

Aznox

Juhasow wrote: »

You know that dueling in the game is garbage when for duel tournament to even happen there has to be long list of banned things to prevent cheesing and then winner still was the person in build full of cheese , because there is so much cheese it's impossible to ban all of it. It's actually pretty sad how bad turn duels took in this game during last years.

Game is very rich in sets and mechanics and players will always come up with setups that are performing better than the rest.
Also better is relative to the current meta.

Knight Slayer was added to the ban list after the tournament and if you continue banning one set from the winning build every month things will stay unpredictable/interesting.

... or you could run a whitelist of a few authorized sets/skill if your only goal is to measure mechanical skill, but i'm pretty sure people would find other things to point fingers at

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Aznox wrote: »

1# StamSorc with Knightslayers, Torugs and Werewolf

My third set was Chudan

Interesting, what did your Enchants and jewelry traits look like?

Aznox

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

1# StamSorc with Knightslayers, Torugs and Werewolf

My third set was Chudan

Interesting, what did your Enchants and jewelry traits look like?

Jewelry was protective and health recovery.

Btw here is the tournament from my pov, links to the different fights are in the video description :
https://twitch.tv/videos/337531479?t=02h05m56s

Waffennacht

Aznox wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

1# StamSorc with Knightslayers, Torugs and Werewolf

My third set was Chudan

Interesting, what did your Enchants and jewelry traits look like?

Jewelry was protective and health recovery.

Btw here is the tournament from my pov, links to the different fights are in the video description :
https://twitch.tv/videos/337531479?t=02h05m56s

Ohhhh I'm at work, gonna watch asap!

Moonsorrow

Minno wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Tirps wrote: »

lol, dks are not allowed to use wings against mag nbs but shimmering shield is okay?

Wings spam literally stops the fight from progressing. Shade & Cripple prevent a wingless DK from ever getting in melee, which also stops the fight from progressing.

Some of you are way out of touch. The goal of rules is to ensure that DUELS END IN A REASONABLE TIME WITH A CLEAR VICTOR.

It´s the same against a sorc though.

Not like you can burst some 28k hp build with just curse fury and meteor. Which rules out all sorc builds that don´t run pulse.

And then realisticly - which dk dies to pulse + curse alone?

Completely agreed. Wings is just a stupidly unbalanced skill for 1v1's. It really makes me laugh hard when some forum hero comes and posts garbage like: "Just use curse", "just use concealed weapon" or "then don't use ranged attacks". These people are just completely clueless on how abilities synergize with each other. You can't just slap on random abilities and expect to have a chance.

Even worse are the people that say "Yea you are just being countered, live with it. You can't have it all", or those that compare it to cloak. I mean it's not like I can use cloak while I am hammering on you, and at the same time preventing you from using any skill on your front bar to apply counter pressure without damaging yourself...

Cast time on wings! Wings capped at 40% max health!
*maniacal laughter*

Yeah, mag DKs are just OP in duels. They make many other classes uncompetitive, not only magblades. Magblades can at least go melee. Sorcs are completely screwed. Vampires are screwed, if they don't lower stage, at which point you can better get it cured totally. Honestly, every build with mediocre stam and dodge sustain will be screwed by DK's root spam eventually.

Maybe the well-known overperforming classes should fight themselves in their own bracket?

Banning wings/pets, but not total dark/cloak/purge is weird. They are essentially the same mechanic, one that helps you counter entire playstyles be it DOT or single target.

The rules should open them all up or close them all down

What Minno said, some classes got their defensive mechanics allowed, some dont.

Calling some of them "op" and some not.. such bias. Seriously, based on those rules, can already pretty much know beforehand what class/setup will win. Such excitement lol

Moonsorrow

ll_Rev wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Those rules clearly favor some classes/setups way more than others.

And no sorcs last time? No wonder with those rules and now with the shield changes and not even pets allowed..

I guess you want to keep it a Nightblade tournament. If there was some petsorcs and dks were also able to use their Wings whenever they wanted i would come watch it and be entertained. Now? Nah, sounds lame and set for certain classes/builds only.

There should be only 1 rule. If a round ends in both being up when time runs out, both are out. That would make troll builds not good since needs finishing power.

Who cares if someone gets a kill with Zaan or something.. more entertaining than watching an Incap contest.

dumbest idea I've heard. that would mean you can just create an unkillable tank and knock you and your opponent out of the tourney.

That idea is still WAY more exciting to watch (yeah, some fights might go timeout and troll tanks got out, but.. with no rules, there would be cheese of all flavors, no rules, dirty tricks and salt, lots of salt. = entertainment.)

TheRealSniker

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Tirps wrote: »

lol, dks are not allowed to use wings against mag nbs but shimmering shield is okay?

Wings spam literally stops the fight from progressing. Shade & Cripple prevent a wingless DK from ever getting in melee, which also stops the fight from progressing.

Some of you are way out of touch. The goal of rules is to ensure that DUELS END IN A REASONABLE TIME WITH A CLEAR VICTOR.

It´s the same against a sorc though.

Not like you can burst some 28k hp build with just curse fury and meteor. Which rules out all sorc builds that don´t run pulse.

And then realisticly - which dk dies to pulse + curse alone?

Completely agreed. Wings is just a stupidly unbalanced skill for 1v1's. It really makes me laugh hard when some forum hero comes and posts garbage like: "Just use curse", "just use concealed weapon" or "then don't use ranged attacks". These people are just completely clueless on how abilities synergize with each other. You can't just slap on random abilities and expect to have a chance.

Even worse are the people that say "Yea you are just being countered, live with it. You can't have it all", or those that compare it to cloak. I mean it's not like I can use cloak while I am hammering on you, and at the same time preventing you from using any skill on your front bar to apply counter pressure without damaging yourself...

Cast time on wings! Wings capped at 40% max health!
*maniacal laughter*

Yeah, mag DKs are just OP in duels. They make many other classes uncompetitive, not only magblades. Magblades can at least go melee. Sorcs are completely screwed. Vampires are screwed, if they don't lower stage, at which point you can better get it cured totally. Honestly, every build with mediocre stam and dodge sustain will be screwed by DK's root spam eventually.

Maybe the well-known overperforming classes should fight themselves in their own bracket?

Banning wings/pets, but not total dark/cloak/purge is weird. They are essentially the same mechanic, one that helps you counter entire playstyles be it DOT or single target.

The rules should open them all up or close them all down

What Minno said, some classes got their defensive mechanics allowed, some dont.

Calling some of them "op" and some not.. such bias. Seriously, based on those rules, can already pretty much know beforehand what class/setup will win. Such excitement lol

Yes, thats why somehow all of you projectionists said a Nightblade would win

LittlePinkDot

What the hell is wrong with harness magicka?

ll_Rev

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

What the hell is wrong with harness magicka?

causes too much stalemates against magicka builds.

Waffennacht

@TheRealSniker is X the same for both builds or does X represent two different variables?

I'm so darn curious with 2 hours left at work!

TheRealSniker

Waffennacht wrote: »

@TheRealSniker is X the same for both builds or does X represent two different variables?

I'm so darn curious with 2 hours left at work!

2 different sets