Is the damage in normal BRP supposed to be this much?
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code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Interesting. These hits do seem pretty damn high for normal.
Comparing against the kinds of damage numbers that we see in vet, it's about half. "About half" is fine when you're talking about scaling a base game vet dungeon's damage for normal. But "about half" is pretty ridiculous for a place like BRP.
For example, Shock Aura killed our healer with a 61K one-shot in vBRP. It's a case of gross overkill, since that's over 3x the healer's health pool. Reducing that damage to 36K, as seen in the OP's screenshot, doesn't really make normal any easier--it's still a one-shot that hits for about twice the health pool of a typical healer or DD.
The Shock Aura comes from the 2-hander trash mob in stage 5. It's not a boss, not a miniboss, not a bannerman... just a trash mob whose lightning AoE can 1-shot anyone. We gave feedback on the PTS that this kind of difficulty--just brute force incoming damage where trash mobs, not even elite mobs, can 1-shot players--is not interesting design. But, whatever, vet BRP is supposed to be brutally hard. But for trash mobs to do enough damage to 1-shot players in normal?! That doesn't seem right, @ZOS_Finn.Edited by code65536 on October 23, 2018 4:47PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
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- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
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LioraValkyrie✭✭✭✭Considering that vBRP is so hard that it makes vAS+2 seem like a fun-time holiday, I would imagine this is exactly what they were aiming for even in normal... Perhaps we are all just noobs at the new content yet. Need a few more days to decide what I make of this devilry.Edited by LioraValkyrie on October 23, 2018 8:14AMMistress of Apocrypha - Master PetSorc
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ZOS_FinnDungeon, Encounter
& Monster LeadThanks for the feedback. We can take a look at those numbers.Lead Encounter Designer (Dungeons, Monsters, Encounters)1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LioraValkyrie wrote: »Considering that vBRP is so hard that it makes vAS+2 seem like a fun-time holiday, I would imagine this is exactly what they were aiming for even in normal... Perhaps we are all just noobs at the new content yet. Need a few more days to decide what I make of this devilry.
There are plenty of cases where difficult vet content aimed at endgame players have a very forgiving normal counterpart, because normal is supposed to be accessible to people who are mostly just interested in the story.
Olms' swipe, for example, will 1-shot any tank on vet who fails to block it and when blocked still lops off a pretty big chunk of the tank's health. But on normal, a light-armor DD with no shield can survive an unblocked swipe. Z'Maja's heavy attack is the same. In MHK, the werewolf adds in vet HM will hit a DD for over 70K with their heavy attack, but those same adds on normal will barely scratch a player's health; I don't remember what it hit for on normal, but it was definitely less than 5K because the health bar barely budged. In Maelstrom, attacks that hit for 7K+ on vet hit for 1-2K on normal. Etc., etc.
I think it's better in general if nerfs to normal were just numbers nerfs rather than mechanics nerfs. For example, I've heard people say that stone totems are not present in nBRP--toning down the damage while preserving those sorts of mechanics would make nBRP more interesting than the current nBRP where those mechanics are removed but 1-shotting trash mobs are still there.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:SpoilerPersonal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
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- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
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BennyButton✭✭✭✭To piggy back on this thread, I have noticed there's a 60% healing debuff called "extreme defile," on vBlackrose prison - this seems weird seeing that we've only ever seen major or minor defile.0 -
THE_BIG_BOSS✭✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »To piggy back on this thread, I have noticed there's a 60% healing debuff called "extreme defile," on vBlackrose prison - this seems weird seeing that we've only ever seen major or minor defile.
Next Patch incap will do extreme defile
Edited by THE_BIG_BOSS on October 23, 2018 3:53PM3 -
fiske✭Personally, I like nBRP a lot the way it is now. It is fairly brutal, and perhaps my view is skewed due to being at max CP (which makes a huge difference in how combat feels vs players without champion points). But last night we duo'ed most of the arena (we were both max cp, and had a full group for a bit, but two of the group went to bed fairly early on) it was brutal, and we died a lot, but almost all of our deaths were a result of us screwing up (mostly me since I was filling in as a tank role in addition to my normal healing, so got lost few times).
A lot of the standard mobs hit very hard, but once we learned to recognize what attack was coming we could generally avoid it, either by blocking or dodging out of the way. Before I put on semi tank gear (my gear is a mess) there were some shots that would kill me while blocking, but they could be dodged.0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »To piggy back on this thread, I have noticed there's a 60% healing debuff called "extreme defile," on vBlackrose prison - this seems weird seeing that we've only ever seen major or minor defile.
It's a mechanic. Debuffs placed on players in PvE are rarely the standard Major/Minor ones. E.g., the defile and maim in Asylum are their own thing.
The defile is on the tank pretty much all the time and is applied from just the boss hitting the tank. I think it's ZOS's way of forcing groups to run with a dedicated healer.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:SpoilerPersonal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information2 -
BennyButton✭✭✭✭
It's a mechanic. Debuffs placed on players in PvE are rarely the standard Major/Minor ones. E.g., the defile and maim in Asylum are their own thing.
The defile is on the tank pretty much all the time and is applied from just the boss hitting the tank. I think it's ZOS's way of forcing groups to run with a dedicated healer.
ahh gotcha okay thanks!0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyHermione wrote: »Just wondering if this is as intended high damage for Normal mode
The damage is up there, no doubt.
I was able to solo the first section today on normal. It wasn't easy, and one missed block could get me killed. That fire mage at the end has a very nasty fire whip and the constant knock backs from the archers was annoying as _____. The fight wore me out quite frankly. But at least there wasn't any stupid DPS-race mechanics to neutralize my build. At least not on the first part (that probably comes later be my guess).
I may try the Hall of Beasts tomorrow. But I recommend getting a group for this if you can. It's a slog solo, even on normal. They really need to add this to the group & activity finder so casual players can access it easier in a group.Edited by Jeremy on October 24, 2018 4:12AM0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
It's a mechanic. Debuffs placed on players in PvE are rarely the standard Major/Minor ones. E.g., the defile and maim in Asylum are their own thing.
The defile is on the tank pretty much all the time and is applied from just the boss hitting the tank. I think it's ZOS's way of forcing groups to run with a dedicated healer.
Code,
I havent' set foot in BRP yet but trying to understand your "ZOS's way of forcing groups to run with a dedicated healer" statement.
Do you mean that in your opinion, the only way to counter this debuff is with continuous high healing output ? Like it's too magicka-intensive to just keep purging as a possible counter ?Edited by profundidob16_ESO on October 25, 2018 12:20PM0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »
Code,
I havent' set foot in BRP yet but trying to understand your "ZOS's way of forcing groups to run with a dedicated healer" statement.
Do you mean that in your opinion, the only way to counter this debuff is with continuous high healing output ? Like it's too magicka-intensive to just keep purging as a possible counter ?
Bosses apply a near-constant bleed and defile on the tank. Neither effect is purgeable. It's not something that a tank's self-heals or DPS off-heals (though with the mnb nerfs, there's not much of that right now) can deal with effectively. You need a healer to keep the tank alive. The healer doesn't have to healspam--it's not that bad--but it is enough that you don't want to rely on self/off-heals in a 3xDD setup.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:SpoilerPersonal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Bosses apply a near-constant bleed and defile on the tank. Neither effect is purgeable. It's not something that a tank's self-heals or DPS off-heals (though with the mnb nerfs, there's not much of that right now) can deal with effectively. You need a healer to keep the tank alive. The healer doesn't have to healspam--it's not that bad--but it is enough that you don't want to rely on self/off-heals in a 3xDD setup.
aaah thx. I understand your earlier statement now and if this is true it sounds like really good news for my main healer char. Seems like I might get him finally out of the storage room and shake off the dust in this new arena !0 -
Kanar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not sure about shock aura but uppercut is a channeled or heavy attack so it should kill you if you get hit by it.
It's about time that "normal" content offers at least some small intro to the dungeon/arena mechanics. That said nBRP is brain-dead easy. We did it to try to learn the mechanics and half the time I was just sitting idle because everything dies so fast and there is so little damage going around.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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By the 8, far harder than vAS+2, I say they put the bar very high, granted its new but still.LioraValkyrie wrote: »Considering that vBRP is so hard that it makes vAS+2 seem like a fun-time holiday, I would imagine this is exactly what they were aiming for even in normal... Perhaps we are all just noobs at the new content yet. Need a few more days to decide what I make of this devilry.
On the other hand some in guild did the normal, without knowing anything about it and they are not vet trial level.
But yes its not your average normal dungeon or trial, nor is it nDSA or nMA.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0
