FPS Problem

alterfenixeb17_ESO

yacoob wrote: »

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

which is something not available on Mac's (now-unsupported) OpenGL version

Just to point out - OpenGL got deprecated on Mac, but it still works.That is, nothing has changed, and there's an expectation that it'll actually stop working in the future - but it works right now. Which means that everyone needs to switch eventually - but not right now this instance. If ZOS decided to switch at a particular patch, and it works poorly, that change should be rolled back, tested more, adjusted, and rolled out later. Unless something else, unrelated, was requiring this change, and the MacOS userbase was simply too small, to make a point strong enough for a more relaxed rollout rate.

For the context: I'm a *very* new ESO player (4d in), and the performance I see on my Mac is similar to poorly made ports, shipping with a semi-customized Wine wrapper. I'm happy to hear that the performance *used* to be better (like properly made ports like LoL or WoW?), but I'd love for this performance to be something more than just a memory

So, in short: can you please reconsider, roll back the changes (if there's nothing else hinged on it), and come back later with much smoother port? 😍

Here:

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

As to why OpenGL isn't available as an option from here on out: we're introducing compute shader support for Mac devices through the new API, which is something not available on Mac's (now-unsupported) OpenGL version. This will allow us to use graphics hardware for things we couldn't before, like GPU particles.

JJBoomer

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’ve been actively working non-stop on the Mac performance issue with the new API. It's one of our highest priority tasks, but it's a complicated issue that requires a large amount of reworking / testing and we’ve had to fast track a lot of this work due to OpenGL no longer being supported by Apple.

As to why OpenGL isn't available as an option from here on out: we're introducing compute shader support for Mac devices through the new API, which is something not available on Mac's (now-unsupported) OpenGL version. This will allow us to use graphics hardware for things we couldn't before, like GPU particles.

We do sincerely understand your frustration with the performance problems you're experiencing, but know that we’re working on this until it is resolved. As soon as it's fixed, it will be pushed in an incremental patch.

thank you so much for the update and for keeping us in the loop.

nathan_bri

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

As to why OpenGL isn't available as an option from here on out: we're introducing compute shader support for Mac devices through the new API, which is something not available on Mac's (now-unsupported) OpenGL version. This will allow us to use graphics hardware for things we couldn't before, like GPU particles.

Yes, let’s add a new feature that only works on a new API that doesn't test well so far on Macs—but, hey, particles, man. No need to wait until we sort out the support issues... players want particles—even though they don’t know it yet—even more than good frame rates!

HowTaoBrownCow

nathan_bri wrote: »

Yes, let’s add a new feature that only works on a new API that doesn't test well so far on Macs—but, hey, particles, man. No need to wait until we sort out the support issues... players want particles—even though they don’t know it yet—even more than good frame rates!

Particle man, particle man
Particle man hates frame rate man.
They have a fight, particle wins
Particle man.

ethernut60

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’ve been actively working non-stop on the Mac performance issue with the new API. It's one of our highest priority tasks, but it's a complicated issue that requires a large amount of reworking / testing and we’ve had to fast track a lot of this work due to OpenGL no longer being supported by Apple.

As to why OpenGL isn't available as an option from here on out: we're introducing compute shader support for Mac devices through the new API, which is something not available on Mac's (now-unsupported) OpenGL version. This will allow us to use graphics hardware for things we couldn't before, like GPU particles.

We do sincerely understand your frustration with the performance problems you're experiencing, but know that we’re working on this until it is resolved. As soon as it's fixed, it will be pushed in an incremental patch.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain the issue. However, that does not excuse releasing a client that is, at best, alpha quality. While Apple is no longer asctively supporting OpenGL, they have not removed it yet. I was running the pre-Murkmire ESO just fine on macOS Mojave. You should hae never released the new Mac client before it was ready.

MakoFore

Montie wrote: »

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’ve been actively working non-stop on the Mac performance issue with the new API. It's one of our highest priority tasks, but it's a complicated issue that requires a large amount of reworking / testing and we’ve had to fast track a lot of this work due to OpenGL no longer being supported by Apple.

As to why OpenGL isn't available as an option from here on out: we're introducing compute shader support for Mac devices through the new API, which is something not available on Mac's (now-unsupported) OpenGL version. This will allow us to use graphics hardware for things we couldn't before, like GPU particles.

We do sincerely understand your frustration with the performance problems you're experiencing, but know that we’re working on this until it is resolved. As soon as it's fixed, it will be pushed in an incremental patch.

Thank you for the response, it is appreciated. However, I do agree with others here, Apple did NOT remove OpenGL, in fact I was playing a game just last night that uses OpenGL. They DEPRECATED it. This should not have been released in this state.

What's done is done. Now we have to wait for a fix. So, let's talk compensation. I have a 6 month sub that I paid for that I am not getting the full value of. What are you going to do about it? How are you going to make this right? What about the event tickets? I barely managed to get them for the last event, but what about the future ones where I may not be able to participate because your game, quite frankly, makes me sick to play more than the basic log on, do writs, log off.

+1 I've paid up for the next 11 months- id also like to enquire how you ll be compensating us.

Montie

HowTaoBrownCow wrote: »

nathan_bri wrote: »

Yes, let’s add a new feature that only works on a new API that doesn't test well so far on Macs—but, hey, particles, man. No need to wait until we sort out the support issues... players want particles—even though they don’t know it yet—even more than good frame rates!

Particle man, particle man
Particle man hates frame rate man.
They have a fight, particle wins
Particle man.

LOL, I am going to have that stuck in my head now for several days.

Thrawn75

Sorry, I said that was my lost post but I still need some indications: how can I request a refund?

rluke

„We do sincerely understand your frustration with the performance problems you're experiencing“

5-15 FPS (dungeons, pvp, trial,..) are not performance problems. It’s not playable.
If my fps drops from 80-100 to 40-50 that’s performance problems^^
Any ETA would be great.

zarnon_akoni

C'mon folks. The game is broken. UNPLAYABLE. There should be a clear, visible, honest ownership of this mistake. Here's an example of a communication that should be coming out. Not from a "Graphics Engineer" but from a senior leader responsible for development:

"Dear Mac Users:

As the senior leader responsible for the Mac Platform, I'm writing now to acknowledge that we've screwed up and to apologize to our Mac User base. We made some bad decisions and significantly overestimated how ready the new release was, resulting in widespread problems that made the game virtually unplayable for most of you.

This is not an easy fix as the problem we were originally trying to solve was not an easy one. We are 100% committed to the Mac Platform and it is our top priority to resolve this as soon as possible. Unfortunately due to the complexity of this problem we cannot give a timeline on when a patch will be available.

In the meantime we are taking the following actions to show our commitment to you:

1. For ESO+ Subscribers we will be crediting you one month of your subscription back to you. Should you not be satisfied with that and choose to cancel a prepaid subscription you can do so here.
2. All Mac users will be credited their daily log-in reward until a patch is released.
3. Should a patch not be released by the start of the Clockwork City Event, all Mac users will be credited a feather for the Indrik Mount.

We hope this is fair compensation for our errors and a clear signal of our commitment to you. We promise to keep you updated as a resolution progresses. If you have further questions, please post here or email me at X and we'll respond as quickly as possible."

This is what a company that gives a damn about its customers does. Extremely disappointed how little communication has come forth so far.

HowTaoBrownCow

nathan_bri wrote: »

"Dear Mac Users:[...]

I have to say, that sounds pretty reasonable to me, and on par with other things they've done to compensate users for significant issues. I look forward to seeing something similar from them for this one.

Sendrik

Im not using a mac,but this was the only active discussion about this topic,that i could find.

Is this a mac exclusive problem?
Im starting to experience way more fps drops than usual,after the murkmire patch.
Before the patch,i always had 60 fps outside of a city(around 55fps in a city),and i played on high settings.
Now i get less fps with even lower settings,its really odd....my fps dropped in a dungeon that i was doing multiple times in the past,always with 60 fps.

In evermore,my fps dropped to 40,with no other players around.
I logged back in,had 60 fps again,spent some time there,entered/left some buildings....and the fps started to drop again.
Even in a small tavern,i had fps problems...in a different, bigger tavern though:60 fps.
All of that didnt happen before the patch and my pc is still the same,didnt change anything.



Specs:

i5-8600k 3.60ghz
GTX 1060
16GB ram

Using windows 10

zarnon_akoni

Sendrik wrote: »

Im not using a mac,but this was the only active discussion about this topic,that i could find.

Is this a mac exclusive problem?

Yes. Non-technical answer:

Apple recently announced they are changing the graphics platform they support which will ultimately have major repercussions on game development. Minimum requirements for the game went up. The development team decided to transition this in the Murkmire release even though, apparently, it was not required. That port was done so badly that the game is virtually unplayable for Mac user. We are getting low single digit FPS and very high latency so PVP and walking through even slightly crowded areas is near impossible. I get attacked my enemies that havent loaded fully so I can't see and counter attack them. It is really, really bad.

xclassgaming

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’ve been actively working non-stop on the Mac performance issue with the new API. It's one of our highest priority tasks, but it's a complicated issue that requires a large amount of reworking / testing and we’ve had to fast track a lot of this work due to OpenGL no longer being supported by Apple.

As to why OpenGL isn't available as an option from here on out: we're introducing compute shader support for Mac devices through the new API, which is something not available on Mac's (now-unsupported) OpenGL version. This will allow us to use graphics hardware for things we couldn't before, like GPU particles.

We do sincerely understand your frustration with the performance problems you're experiencing, but know that we’re working on this until it is resolved. As soon as it's fixed, it will be pushed in an incremental patch.

A bit late, but i would also like to make sure ZOS knows that this is also a problem on PC, not just MAC.

mistermacintosh

Thrawn75 wrote: »

Sorry, I said that was my lost post but I still need some indications: how can I request a refund?

I think they sell those in the crown store.

Carmina

xclassgaming wrote: »

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’ve been actively working non-stop on the Mac performance issue with the new API. It's one of our highest priority tasks, but it's a complicated issue that requires a large amount of reworking / testing and we’ve had to fast track a lot of this work due to OpenGL no longer being supported by Apple.

As to why OpenGL isn't available as an option from here on out: we're introducing compute shader support for Mac devices through the new API, which is something not available on Mac's (now-unsupported) OpenGL version. This will allow us to use graphics hardware for things we couldn't before, like GPU particles.

We do sincerely understand your frustration with the performance problems you're experiencing, but know that we’re working on this until it is resolved. As soon as it's fixed, it will be pushed in an incremental patch.

A bit late, but i would also like to make sure ZOS knows that this is also a problem on PC, not just MAC.

Sorry, but I have to contradict. It may be a problem to some PC users that there is a decline in fps in some parts of the game. This is not what the Mac users are talking about. I am not going to reiterate the problem here, but what you state is plain wrong, and, frankly, sounds like you want to hijack the thread.

If there is an fps-problem in the Windows-version of the game, feel free to post in the appropriate forum.

C.

Veladros

The sad thing in all this is we have an ego plus active and we can't enjoy the game fully.

HowTaoBrownCow

During the Twitch stream last night, Gina said that there would be an update in Tuesday's patch that would help Mac users with performance problems. She didn't say how much it would help, but I was pleased to hear it.

Gina had also made a point of stating that it would be on Tuesday rather than Monday, to avoid the U.S. Veterans Day holiday. I assume that's why the banner currently at the top of this forum states "PC/Mac: No maintenance– November 12", and that there will be maintenance on Tuesday as she described.

Montie

Elder Scrolls Online has been mostly unplayable for 19 days on Macs.

Still waiting to hear about compensation for those who are subscribers.

JJBoomer

HowTaoBrownCow wrote: »

During the Twitch stream last night, Gina said that there would be an update in Tuesday's patch that would help Mac users with performance problems. She didn't say how much it would help, but I was pleased to hear it.

Gina had also made a point of stating that it would be on Tuesday rather than Monday, to avoid the U.S. Veterans Day holiday. I assume that's why the banner currently at the top of this forum states "PC/Mac: No maintenance– November 12", and that there will be maintenance on Tuesday as she described.

This... concerns me. Because "help" means that they don't know what's causing it, and whatever is in the patch is only going to maybe improve things, but not FIX them. So it's not a fix.

Which to me says, this fps problem is our new way of life now in this game for mac users. and that...sucks. How can they not know how they broke their own game? I don't want a patch that will maybe help... I want a FIX. I don't want to have to play at reduced anything because THEY broke it.

I was using ultra high, at 4k resolution with not a single fps issue, so if the suggestion becomes "play at lower settings" I say bull *** because i shouldn't have to. This "helper patch" better not be their solution, and it better not be the end of them trying to FIX this.

HowTaoBrownCow

JJBoomer wrote: »

This... concerns me. Because "help" means that they don't know what's causing it, and whatever is in the patch is only going to maybe improve things, but not FIX them. So it's not a fix.

Please don't read that level of detail into my casual report of something I heard in a Twitch stream. Watch the archived stream if it's available to hear what Gina actually said or -- better yet -- read whatever the patch report is when it's out. I was just posting here to let folks know that *something* is coming, but I have literally no details beyond that.

Wodinn

Puodas wrote: »

Wodinn wrote: »

I have a slight dilema. I no longer have the Usersettings.txt file. How do I get that back again? Do I have to do a full DL from the website?

Just run the game and it will be re-created.

So far that hasn't worked. I think I have to delete it, then re download it now. crap

Wodinn

I'm not sure what has happened. I just re-downloaded the game to try and get my Usersettings.txt file back. It is still not there and the game is back to immediately quitting itself. What do I need to do to get that file back?

HowTaoBrownCow

Wodinn wrote: »

I'm not sure what has happened. I just re-downloaded the game to try and get my Usersettings.txt file back. It is still not there and the game is back to immediately quitting itself. What do I need to do to get that file back?

You're on a Mac... do you have a Time Machine backup of that directory available?

smacx250

Wodinn wrote: »

I'm not sure what has happened. I just re-downloaded the game to try and get my Usersettings.txt file back. It is still not there and the game is back to immediately quitting itself. What do I need to do to get that file back?

@Wodinn - Had you previously used a workaround for multi-core to prevent the crash? If so, you can try this:

1. Open "Terminal.app"
2. Copy/paste this to the command line and hit return:
echo 'SET MaxCoresToUse.4 "4" ' > ~/Documents/"Elder Scrolls Online"/live/UserSettings.txt
3. Run the game

Wodinn

smacx250 wrote: »

Wodinn wrote: »

I'm not sure what has happened. I just re-downloaded the game to try and get my Usersettings.txt file back. It is still not there and the game is back to immediately quitting itself. What do I need to do to get that file back?

@Wodinn - Had you previously used a workaround for multi-core to prevent the crash? If so, you can try this:

1. Open "Terminal.app"
2. Copy/paste this to the command line and hit return:
echo 'SET MaxCoresToUse.4 "4" ' > ~/Documents/"Elder Scrolls Online"/live/UserSettings.txt
3. Run the game

This worked. I was hoping my fps wouldn't still be absolutely ***. I was wrong. EVERY update so far has made this game LESS playable then the last. I'm not renewing my + account until I see some DAMN changes in the game.
I'm past being patient for them to 'get the client fixed' WHAT IS TAKING SO LONG?! Maybe STOP working on new content, and get the game WORKING for those of us on an apple computer.
It's ALL I can do to keep from being profane here, because it took them OVER A YEAR to finally less us know WHAT THE **** was going on.

Wodinn

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’ve been actively working non-stop on the Mac performance issue with the new API. It's one of our highest priority tasks, but it's a complicated issue that requires a large amount of reworking / testing and we’ve had to fast track a lot of this work due to OpenGL no longer being supported by Apple.

As to why OpenGL isn't available as an option from here on out: we're introducing compute shader support for Mac devices through the new API, which is something not available on Mac's (now-unsupported) OpenGL version. This will allow us to use graphics hardware for things we couldn't before, like GPU particles.

We do sincerely understand your frustration with the performance problems you're experiencing, but know that we’re working on this until it is resolved. As soon as it's fixed, it will be pushed in an incremental patch.

This reply is SO LATE. Why not stop making new content, and FIX what has been broken. WE have been waiting for THIS, for almost a year. We are paying customers. There is no excuse for this lack of service.
Get it working. I'm done paying for +

Montie

Wodinn wrote: »

ZOS_AlexTardif wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’ve been actively working non-stop on the Mac performance issue with the new API. It's one of our highest priority tasks, but it's a complicated issue that requires a large amount of reworking / testing and we’ve had to fast track a lot of this work due to OpenGL no longer being supported by Apple.

As to why OpenGL isn't available as an option from here on out: we're introducing compute shader support for Mac devices through the new API, which is something not available on Mac's (now-unsupported) OpenGL version. This will allow us to use graphics hardware for things we couldn't before, like GPU particles.

We do sincerely understand your frustration with the performance problems you're experiencing, but know that we’re working on this until it is resolved. As soon as it's fixed, it will be pushed in an incremental patch.

This reply is SO LATE. Why not stop making new content, and FIX what has been broken. WE have been waiting for THIS, for almost a year. We are paying customers. There is no excuse for this lack of service.
Get it working. I'm done paying for +

Maybe I am missing something, but I was playing it just fine 19 days ago, pre murkmire.

Wodinn

MANY of us started having the major issues with the Summerset release. That is where the Usersettings.txt work around came from.

Montie

HowTaoBrownCow wrote: »

During the Twitch stream last night, Gina said that there would be an update in Tuesday's patch that would help Mac users with performance problems. She didn't say how much it would help, but I was pleased to hear it.

Gina had also made a point of stating that it would be on Tuesday rather than Monday, to avoid the U.S. Veterans Day holiday. I assume that's why the banner currently at the top of this forum states "PC/Mac: No maintenance– November 12", and that there will be maintenance on Tuesday as she described.

I am glad to hear that, but why in the hell did they not just come into the forum and post that info here where people are watching and waiting? Not everyone is watching the streams, especially right now when I can not even play their game.