FPS Problem

kenjitamura

Well, if anyone is really desperate enough to seek immediate good performance and have hardware able to support Metal then you could always give Linux a try. With Proton the game runs great on Linux and there's no monetary cost. Could either do a dual boot or switch over completely if you get comfortable with it. Elementary OS seems like it'd be a nice fit for people accustomed to Mac.

Just throwing it out there if someone is desperate enough to attempt it and has several hours free in a day to set it all up. But hopefully the client for Mac gets fixed.

Preview of Elementary OS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qO_Ft_wRqs

ESO running on linux:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46dipAl6uNI

Dual boot install guide:
How to Install and Dual Boot Linux and Mac OS

Montie

Jeth wrote: »

sean.montgomery_ESO wrote: »

I don't suppose there is any update on the status of a fix for this? What about compensation for ESO+ subscribers who have payed for a service that they have not been able to use on Macs for the past 9 days?

Thanks in advance.

LOL!

Edit: I posted and asked for answers. You are asking for them to fork over cash because of their incompetence and/or neglect. Care to place odds on which happens first?

Yeah I know, asking for a lot. Honestly, just hoping they will step up and be professional, own up to the mistake and make it right.

Jeth

kenjitamura wrote: »

Well, if anyone is really desperate enough to seek immediate good performance and have hardware able to support Metal then you could always give Linux a try. With Proton the game runs great on Linux and there's no monetary cost. Could either do a dual boot or switch over completely if you get comfortable with it. Elementary OS seems like it'd be a nice fit for people accustomed to Mac.

Just throwing it out there if someone is desperate enough to attempt it and has several hours free in a day to set it all up. But hopefully the client for Mac gets fixed.

Dual boot install guide:
How to Install and Dual Boot Linux and Mac OS

Did this with Windows 10 so I could play for the 20 days left on my ESO+ before my sub expires. ZOS should let us sell our accounts since they sold us out.

Carmina

smacx250 wrote: »

Carmina wrote: »

Hey, got the same problem, but it seems like I am the only one here so far to use an eGPU.... Thus, here the info:

macOS Mojave
Version 10.14.1 Beta (18B73a)

MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016)
Processor 2,7 GHz intel Core i7
Memory 16 GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
Startup Disk MacintoshHD
Graphics Radeon RX 570 4096 MB
Intel HD Graphics 530 1536 MB

So yeah, the eGPU is affected, too. Btw, that is a Sonnet Puck eGPU, one of the officially supported ones.

I really hope you guys find a quick solution for that.

C.

@Carmina - prior to this, how was your experience with the eGPU and ESO?

It was quite decent. Not huge, like 60fps or so, but perfectly usable in high settings. I should say I am using an LG 38" monitor with 3840x1600, so that is making things slower

Carmina

EDIT Actually what I wrote further down is BS, I apologise. I just found this in the Knowledge Base:

We have switched the Mac renderer from OpenGL to MoltenVK (Metal) to support the upcoming release of the upcoming MacOS Mojave. To support these changes, we will be updating the minimum specifications for all Mac players in Update 20. These will be as follows:
Operating System: macOS High Sierra v 10.13
Model: Late-2013 27-inch iMac and Newer
Hard Disk Space: 85 GB free HDD space
Internet: Internet Broadband Connection

This is a nice move. But I also think that this might be the problem, because it sure as hell looks like ESO is not using any acceleration at all. So, maybe the implementation of MoltenVK is the problem here....

BTW I confirmed, like others before, that the game is using the eGPU. So that is not the problem. I did not find anything along the lines of forcing an app to use Metal, if it is available.



At this opportunity it should be said, btw, that Apple deprecated OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS Mojave. Which pretty much means that ESO is not going to run on Macs running macOS 10.15 anymore. Zenimax' commitment to the Mac is pretty much going to end there, them already having said that they will not port ESO to Metal2.

Looks like my time with ESO is at an end, and I will have to go back to playing WoW, which I definitely did not want to. But Blizzard does support Metal, and frame rates in WoW are much higher than in ESO.

alterfenixeb17_ESO

Carmina wrote: »

EDIT Actually what I wrote further down is BS, I apologise. I just found this in the Knowledge Base:

We have switched the Mac renderer from OpenGL to MoltenVK (Metal) to support the upcoming release of the upcoming MacOS Mojave. To support these changes, we will be updating the minimum specifications for all Mac players in Update 20. These will be as follows:
Operating System: macOS High Sierra v 10.13
Model: Late-2013 27-inch iMac and Newer
Hard Disk Space: 85 GB free HDD space
Internet: Internet Broadband Connection

Yes, this is what I wanted to point out but saw you edit your post before I replied:-) Also keep in mind that they do have a possibility to switch to Vulkan on other platforms which would mean that engine could differ between platforms only with the actual renderer.

Gaelord_the_2nd

I experience the same problem as everyone else, but i think that not being able to play in windowed fullscreen is a bigger problem than the FPS-drops.

MBP 15" (Late 2016)
High Sierra 10.13.6
2,9 GHz core i7
16 GB LPDDR3
4096 GB Radeon Pro 460

Montie

Gaelord_the_2nd wrote: »

I experience the same problem as everyone else, but i think that not being able to play in windowed fullscreen is a bigger problem than the FPS-drops.

Why? Massively reduced FPS is what is causing most of us to not be able to play. The window is just an inconvenience.

tunepunk

Also experiencing greatly reduced FPS after Murkmire. Has anyone found any UserSettings.txt tweaks that works?

otab

Chiming in to add another Mac user voice to this chorus. I'm running the latest 2018 MacBook Pro, and MacOS Mojave 10.14.

Note that, like @Carmina, I'm also using an eGPU. I'm using the BlackMagic. The eso executable is set to prefer the external GPU. According to Activity Monitor, the eso executable used the eGPU pre-murkmire, and continues to use it post-murkmire.

Before Murkmire, I was running on High settings, with Ultra High textures at 1440p, and had a frame rate reliably in the 40-60 range, with really crowded towns like Alinor sometimes dipping into the 30s. Very playable.

Now, I get between 8-12 just about everywhere. A slideshow.

Metal *should* have given a performance boost, not an 80% *reduction*. Someone really screwed the pooch here.

It really seems like eso is not using *any* hardware acceleration *at all*.

Mojave is not the trouble; I'd been playing eso on Mojave with no trouble, and on this exact same rig. The only difference between when I had good performance and this newly steaming pile is the MoltenVK client in update 20/Murkmire.

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro15,1
Processor Name: Intel Core i9
Processor Speed: 2.9 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 6
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 12 MB
Memory: 32 GB
Boot ROM Version: 220.200.252.0.0 (iBridge: 16.16.375.0.0,0)

GPU Overview:

Radeon Pro 560X:

Chipset Model: Radeon Pro 560X
Type: GPU
Bus: PCIe
PCIe Lane Width: x8
VRAM (Dynamic, Max): 4096 MB
Vendor: AMD (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x67ef
Revision ID: 0x00c2
ROM Revision: 113-C980AL-060
VBIOS Version: 113-C97501U-005
EFI Driver Version: 01.01.060
Automatic Graphics Switching: Supported
gMux Version: 5.0.0
Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily2 v1

Radeon Pro 580:

Chipset Model: Radeon Pro 580
Type: External GPU
Bus: PCIe
PCIe Lane Width: x4
VRAM (Dynamic, Max): 8192 MB
Vendor: AMD (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x67df
Revision ID: 0x00c0
Automatic Graphics Switching: Supported
gMux Version: 5.0.0
Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily2 v1

Thrawn75

Gosh... so what do we do now? The game is unplayable as it was before. And i’m not upgrading to Mojave anytime soon. Can I just download a client that uses OpenGL? Or can you just provide a setting to select the graphics API at least??
I think this thread is on fire for a reason.

Carmina

ramiro_olivaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Gosh... so what do we do now? The game is unplayable as it was before. And i’m not upgrading to Mojave anytime soon. Can I just download a client that uses OpenGL? Or can you just provide a setting to select the graphics API at least??
I think this thread is on fire for a reason.

Well, as I said earlier, I was wrong about the OpenGL thing, since ESO seems to have switched to MoltenVK (Metal) for Upgrade 20. And it also seems like 10.13 is affected, too, so Mojave is not the culprit here. As a matter of fact, like @otab I have been running ESO with Mojave for a while, since Beta, and it worked after some adjustments.
The problem we are seeing right now in my eyes is a mess-up regarding the new renderer. I would guess - though we will never be told - that some developer has some files installed on their machine, which are needed, and with which the game runs fine. Sadly, they did not know they are needed, or forgot to include them, and thus we are stranded with an unplayable ESO. MoltenVK is OpenSource on Github, so there should be a community there, which in turn should make it easy for ZOS to find the problem and fix it. What is irritating, as usual, is the lack of ZOS presence here. This is a major major issue, and they should be busy doing some explaining and giving time tables. Instead they try to not talk to people.
That in itself is very disappointing.

Let's try to take something good from this. If they are not talking here, they are busy fixing the error. I hope.

C.

nckg84

Carmina wrote: »

ramiro_olivaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Gosh... so what do we do now? The game is unplayable as it was before. And i’m not upgrading to Mojave anytime soon. Can I just download a client that uses OpenGL? Or can you just provide a setting to select the graphics API at least??
I think this thread is on fire for a reason.

Well, as I said earlier, I was wrong about the OpenGL thing, since ESO seems to have switched to MoltenVK (Metal) for Upgrade 20. And it also seems like 10.13 is affected, too, so Mojave is not the culprit here. As a matter of fact, like @otab I have been running ESO with Mojave for a while, since Beta, and it worked after some adjustments.
The problem we are seeing right now in my eyes is a mess-up regarding the new renderer. I would guess - though we will never be told - that some developer has some files installed on their machine, which are needed, and with which the game runs fine. Sadly, they did not know they are needed, or forgot to include them, and thus we are stranded with an unplayable ESO. MoltenVK is OpenSource on Github, so there should be a community there, which in turn should make it easy for ZOS to find the problem and fix it. What is irritating, as usual, is the lack of ZOS presence here. This is a major major issue, and they should be busy doing some explaining and giving time tables. Instead they try to not talk to people.
That in itself is very disappointing.

Let's try to take something good from this. If they are not talking here, they are busy fixing the error. I hope.

C.

This. Biggest issue is that ZOS stays quiet. Highly unproffesional. They are not fixing the issue or they would have given us a time frame.

If resources are a problem ZOS then just be transparent about it. This is 2018, people will understand IF you talk to us.

agegarton

I have to agree @nckg84 . The world is becoming more and more consumer service orientated by necessity, yet ZoS seems to be stuck in the 1990's when it comes to customer engagement.

For me personally, the bugs, the issues with server performance in Cyrodiil, the odd balance changes..... none of these will necessarily push me away as the base game is great! However, the lack of communication and engagement with the paying customer base is beyond frustrating, it's downright infuriating. If I were on the receiving end of this kind of ignorance fro any other service provider, I'd simply walk away and find somewhere else to spend my money. You can only trade on "good base game" for so long.......

tunepunk

Carmina wrote: »

ramiro_olivaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Gosh... so what do we do now? The game is unplayable as it was before. And i’m not upgrading to Mojave anytime soon. Can I just download a client that uses OpenGL? Or can you just provide a setting to select the graphics API at least??
I think this thread is on fire for a reason.

Well, as I said earlier, I was wrong about the OpenGL thing, since ESO seems to have switched to MoltenVK (Metal) for Upgrade 20. And it also seems like 10.13 is affected, too, so Mojave is not the culprit here. As a matter of fact, like @otab I have been running ESO with Mojave for a while, since Beta, and it worked after some adjustments.
The problem we are seeing right now in my eyes is a mess-up regarding the new renderer. I would guess - though we will never be told - that some developer has some files installed on their machine, which are needed, and with which the game runs fine. Sadly, they did not know they are needed, or forgot to include them, and thus we are stranded with an unplayable ESO. MoltenVK is OpenSource on Github, so there should be a community there, which in turn should make it easy for ZOS to find the problem and fix it. What is irritating, as usual, is the lack of ZOS presence here. This is a major major issue, and they should be busy doing some explaining and giving time tables. Instead they try to not talk to people.
That in itself is very disappointing.

Let's try to take something good from this. If they are not talking here, they are busy fixing the error. I hope.

C.

Ok, so if it runs good on their developer machines, could it probably be that they have some SDK installed that regular users don't have? Maybe something like that is a possible workaround? Downloading SDK's for MAC or something like that?

Wodinn

I'm currently 'trying' to run the game on a baseline iMac Pro. Game performance has gotten terrible sense they made the move too the metal/molten graphics language? I've submitted an in game ticket. This is really getting ridiculous. Before update I was getting 50+ fps. Now it's about 25 no matter what I do with the graphics settings.

Montie

Wodinn wrote: »

I'm currently 'trying' to run the game on a baseline iMac Pro. Game performance has gotten terrible sense they made the move too the metal/molten graphics language? I've submitted an in game ticket. This is really getting ridiculous. Before update I was getting 50+ fps. Now it's about 25 no matter what I do with the graphics settings.

Good luck on your ticket, I submitted one days ago and have not heard back, not that I expect them to be helpful. They need to put out a patch to fix it and based off of the feedback we have gotten, they don't seem to care about us Mac users. There was another post where someone submitted a ticket and had not heard anything yet 8 days later.

Kind of upsetting to see a big red banner at the top of the forums saying there are some XBox service interruptions but nothing saying we completely screwed Mac users.

I am running at low with a minimum draw distance and still having too many issues to play without getting sick. I pretty much just log on, do my writs and mount training and log off.

Carmina

Ok, so if it runs good on their developer machines, could it probably be that they have some SDK installed that regular users don't have? Maybe something like that is a possible workaround? Downloading SDK's for MAC or something like that?

I had the same idea because yes, after what I wrote earlier, speculating, it seemed to be a logical thing to check. I downloaded some Vulkan demo stuff, not from MoltenVK but some other site. They had the Cube demo compiled. It runs fine on the Mac. And there are no installables to be found. From what I read in the documentation, the MoltenVK framework is to be included into the app, and if you dig in the ESO package, it is indeed there.

So, honestly, I have no idea. I did not find anything that would tell me whether Vulkan is running, nor if something else is amiss. No logfiles, nada.

So, I guess we will have to wait. And raise a *** for them not answering.

C.

dm_critic

nckg84 wrote: »

Carmina wrote: »

ramiro_olivaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Gosh... so what do we do now? The game is unplayable as it was before. And i’m not upgrading to Mojave anytime soon. Can I just download a client that uses OpenGL? Or can you just provide a setting to select the graphics API at least??
I think this thread is on fire for a reason.

Well, as I said earlier, I was wrong about the OpenGL thing, since ESO seems to have switched to MoltenVK (Metal) for Upgrade 20. And it also seems like 10.13 is affected, too, so Mojave is not the culprit here. As a matter of fact, like @otab I have been running ESO with Mojave for a while, since Beta, and it worked after some adjustments.
The problem we are seeing right now in my eyes is a mess-up regarding the new renderer. I would guess - though we will never be told - that some developer has some files installed on their machine, which are needed, and with which the game runs fine. Sadly, they did not know they are needed, or forgot to include them, and thus we are stranded with an unplayable ESO. MoltenVK is OpenSource on Github, so there should be a community there, which in turn should make it easy for ZOS to find the problem and fix it. What is irritating, as usual, is the lack of ZOS presence here. This is a major major issue, and they should be busy doing some explaining and giving time tables. Instead they try to not talk to people.
That in itself is very disappointing.

Let's try to take something good from this. If they are not talking here, they are busy fixing the error. I hope.

C.

This. Biggest issue is that ZOS stays quiet. Highly unproffesional. They are not fixing the issue or they would have given us a time frame.

If resources are a problem ZOS then just be transparent about it. This is 2018, people will understand IF you talk to us.

Part of the problem too is that posting is contained to one sub-forum.

There's always the more drastic method to get ZOS to be more transparent and communicate -- start communicating the issue outside just this forum. Start leaving bad reviews on Steam highlighting the issue and lack of response. Likewise make posts on Reddit (/r/elderscrollsonline/ which ZOS reads), Twitch, anyplace else where ZOS is active and stress their lack of urgency and transparency on the issue. And threaten to cancel ESO+ and urge others to do the same and also leave bad reviews.

Companies tend to be much more responsive when they see potential financial impact from not fixing the issue.

Wodinn

JJBoomer wrote: »

Pre-Murkmire, I ran on Ultra High with no fps issues at all. Now, I'm getting about 2 fps in alinor and MAYBE 10 out in the wilderness. I know this is not an issue with my computer, so don't even try that.

I'm on a brand new, baseline iMac Pro. And exactly same problem with my client as well.

Wodinn

sean.montgomery_ESO wrote: »

Wodinn wrote: »

I'm currently 'trying' to run the game on a baseline iMac Pro. Game performance has gotten terrible sense they made the move too the metal/molten graphics language? I've submitted an in game ticket. This is really getting ridiculous. Before update I was getting 50+ fps. Now it's about 25 no matter what I do with the graphics settings.

Good luck on your ticket, I submitted one days ago and have not heard back, not that I expect them to be helpful. They need to put out a patch to fix it and based off of the feedback we have gotten, they don't seem to care about us Mac users. There was another post where someone submitted a ticket and had not heard anything yet 8 days later.

Kind of upsetting to see a big red banner at the top of the forums saying there are some XBox service interruptions but nothing saying we completely screwed Mac users.

I am running at low with a minimum draw distance and still having too many issues to play without getting sick. I pretty much just log on, do my writs and mount training and log off.

Of course. Ever sense they started trying to optimize the client for Macs. There has been a group of us that have had to gone into Usersettings.txt and editing the doc, JUST so the game would run. And THAT particular problem still has not been fully addressed by ZoS. I tried 'reseting' those edits today. And now my game won't open, again.

Wodinn

dm_critic wrote: »

nckg84 wrote: »

Carmina wrote: »

ramiro_olivaeb17_ESO wrote: »

Gosh... so what do we do now? The game is unplayable as it was before. And i’m not upgrading to Mojave anytime soon. Can I just download a client that uses OpenGL? Or can you just provide a setting to select the graphics API at least??
I think this thread is on fire for a reason.

Well, as I said earlier, I was wrong about the OpenGL thing, since ESO seems to have switched to MoltenVK (Metal) for Upgrade 20. And it also seems like 10.13 is affected, too, so Mojave is not the culprit here. As a matter of fact, like @otab I have been running ESO with Mojave for a while, since Beta, and it worked after some adjustments.
The problem we are seeing right now in my eyes is a mess-up regarding the new renderer. I would guess - though we will never be told - that some developer has some files installed on their machine, which are needed, and with which the game runs fine. Sadly, they did not know they are needed, or forgot to include them, and thus we are stranded with an unplayable ESO. MoltenVK is OpenSource on Github, so there should be a community there, which in turn should make it easy for ZOS to find the problem and fix it. What is irritating, as usual, is the lack of ZOS presence here. This is a major major issue, and they should be busy doing some explaining and giving time tables. Instead they try to not talk to people.
That in itself is very disappointing.

Let's try to take something good from this. If they are not talking here, they are busy fixing the error. I hope.

C.

This. Biggest issue is that ZOS stays quiet. Highly unproffesional. They are not fixing the issue or they would have given us a time frame.

If resources are a problem ZOS then just be transparent about it. This is 2018, people will understand IF you talk to us.

Part of the problem too is that posting is contained to one sub-forum.

There's always the more drastic method to get ZOS to be more transparent and communicate -- start communicating the issue outside just this forum. Start leaving bad reviews on Steam highlighting the issue and lack of response. Likewise make posts on Reddit (/r/elderscrollsonline/ which ZOS reads), Twitch, anyplace else where ZOS is active and stress their lack of urgency and transparency on the issue. And threaten to cancel ESO+ and urge others to do the same and also leave bad reviews.

Companies tend to be much more responsive when they see potential financial impact from not fixing the issue.

I agree. Obviously posting here is doing nothing. So far it's done absolutely nothing. My + membership ran out this month. And now I'm not planning on renewing it. Also don't try to complain to them on twitter. That doesn't do anything to help either, I've tried.

rluke

Maybe fix on Monday Patch ?

Carmina

rluke wrote: »

Maybe fix on Monday Patch ?

Haha Yeah. Hope dies last...

rluke

Hopefully not a qualitatively same patch as the fullscreen fix last week.

Carmina

rluke wrote: »

Hopefully not a qualitatively same patch as the fullscreen fix last week.

To be honest: This is a client problem, so nothing that needs a downtime. They could fix this for us as soon as they have fixed it for them. So I do not believe it will be fixed during that time.

Again, just to make this clear:

DAMN YOU ZENIMAX, YOU MORONS SHOULD BE COMMENTING HERE!!!!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING, KEEPING US IN THE DARK LIKE THIS?!?!

Honestly, this single experience alone is enough for me to cancel my subscription.

Evilspock

My prection is it will take them 6 months to fix this, or they will just give up and discontinue mac support. The kicker is they didn’t have to change anything and we could have still had a working client just as good as last patch.

JJBoomer

Evilspock wrote: »

My prection is it will take them 6 months to fix this, or they will just give up and discontinue mac support. The kicker is they didn’t have to change anything and we could have still had a working client just as good as last patch.

my prediction is that this fiasco will be the catalyst for them dropping mac support. the moment they realize that a mac port is just not worth the investment anymore. Like the STO devs did a couple years back. And that's probably why they have not communicated, because their trying to figure how to drop mac support and not burn themselves. and trying to figure how to tell us that we won't get any money back because we spent willingly and they're not liable for that lol.

It'll be some drivel about how "we just don't have the resources to support the platform, sorry guys! hope to see you on console!" and basically we'll be butt ***.

this is the only major MMO of it's kind available to mac players, and it looks like its journey on macOS has ended. because even if they are working on this, it's clearly low on priorities, when it should be #1.

already canceled my sub. they don't deserve sub money when we can't even play.

cadashes

I know the new mac minimum says late-2013 and newer, but my mid-2012 macbook pro definitely supports metal, so I'm posting this anyway.

rluke

Zeni should ask "feral interactive " to make the metal port. Feral makes really very good Mac ports.