Reflective Scales

jcm2606

Because it is either amazing, or completely useless. It is incredibly strong against one or two ranged players who only have reflectable attacks, ie NB, overload Sorc, Sorc's relying on frags, archers, etc. But it is damn near useless against multiple ranged players, where it genuinely goes down half a second after you cast it, or a player with more than a few unreflectable attacks, ie Curse, Force Pulse, Endless Fury, etc. There is no middle ground. It is either amazing, or completely useless.

It also doesn't help that the list of skills that can be reflected by wings is full of special cases, both being able to and not being able to be reflected. NB's Cripple can be reflected, even though I seriously don't think it is a projectile, and Warden's bird I am almost certain cannot be reflected. Ultimates aren't reflected, or even absorbed. Set procs are just ignored.

If you want to cry about overperforming skills, look at Warden's Shimmering Shield, which offers projectile absorption (based on a flat amount of damage, not a flat number of projectiles, so weak ass light attacks from multiple players won't delete your Shimmering like they do wings), magicka return per spell projectile, and Major Heroism. Shimmering is 10x stronger than wings, for Major Heroism alone.

Or, better yet, L2P. Wings has counters. It's an expensive skill that only reflects certain projectiles, and it can be deleted by pelting the DK with projectiles. As a Sorc, you have Curse, Fury and Force Pulse available to you. Use them. Stop asking for *** to be nerfed.

Galalin

I stand by my original post Git Gud. First time every saying that on the forums but if the shoe fits wear it... This is nothing more than a whine from someone who ate their own frags and now needs to shed some tears over it on the forums.

IZZEFlameLash

jcm2606 wrote: »

Because it is either amazing, or completely useless. It is incredibly strong against one or two ranged players who only have reflectable attacks, ie NB, overload Sorc, Sorc's relying on frags, archers, etc. But it is damn near useless against multiple ranged players, where it genuinely goes down half a second after you cast it, or a player with more than a few unreflectable attacks, ie Curse, Force Pulse, Endless Fury, etc. There is no middle ground. It is either amazing, or completely useless.

It also doesn't help that the list of skills that can be reflected by wings is full of special cases, both being able to and not being able to be reflected. NB's Cripple can be reflected, even though I seriously don't think it is a projectile, and Warden's bird I am almost certain cannot be reflected. Ultimates aren't reflected, or even absorbed. Set procs are just ignored.

If you want to cry about overperforming skills, look at Warden's Shimmering Shield, which offers projectile absorption (based on a flat amount of damage, not a flat number of projectiles, so weak ass light attacks from multiple players won't delete your Shimmering like they do wings), magicka return per spell projectile, and Major Heroism. Shimmering is 10x stronger than wings, for Major Heroism alone.

Or, better yet, L2P. Wings has counters. It's an expensive skill that only reflects certain projectiles, and it can be deleted by pelting the DK with projectiles. As a Sorc, you have Curse, Fury and Force Pulse available to you. Use them. Stop asking for *** to be nerfed.

Pretty much this. /thread

Rikumaru

If your upset over your magicka nightblade being countered by reflective scales, how about you slot the melee spammable instead? You have other options even if they aren't as strong. That being said, 6s of reflects is extremely strong in 1v1s / 2v2s. Imo it should be 4s with infinite reflects.

arkansas_ESO

Rikumaru wrote: »

If your upset over your magicka nightblade being countered by reflective scales, how about you slot the melee spammable instead? You have other options even if they aren't as strong. That being said, 6s of reflects is extremely strong in 1v1s / 2v2s. Imo it should be 4s with infinite reflects.

At that point why wouldn't I just go play a stamblade instead?

Checkmath

OP stated to play a Magsorc, right?
I am very confused about that, since a Magsoorc has plenty of skills not affected by wings. One of its deadliest combos actually is unaffected with some adjustements: curse, meteor, rune cage, force pulse, mages wrath. Nothing is reflected. There are plenty of options for magsorcs to adapt to this situation. If OP would play Magblade, I would have understood...

Anyway I do not think wings are overperforming, they do not counter a whole build or class. There are ways to work around it. Otherwise you could also come on the forum and name the new evasion buff as op, since it pretty much counters templars and wardens, also dks have lots of aoe abilities.

Ender1310

DK's limited mobility inherent in the class. Makes it so you have to come to them. Try leveling a DK alt and pvping with it. I am glad that I have one of each class so I can get a bit of perspective. It might help you.

Fiveboro

Galalin wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

You acting as if everyone has it. Amost all classes and skills have counters and there are builds and skills you could use... it's not anyone's fault but your own if you choose not to. You looking at this purely from a selfish point of view so there is no point debating over it. Git gud

Tell me what skills I should use to get around it as a mag sorc?
Be specific if you are going to make silly accusations.

But you strike me as the token forum troll that posts "git gud" in 90% of your posts without any constructive answer so I think ill just ignore you from here.

Can you find one post where I have every said that before? I think not. Stand in your mines and the DK then does what? There are lots of counters and I'm not wasting my time spelling it out for you. This is a l2p issue. Wings have been nerfed enough in the past

@Betty_Booms THIS right here. You picked a silly class IMO to get worked up about vs. DK. Mag DK and Mag Sorc are almost perfect counters to each other. If they run wings you run mines and a mag sorc should almost always out sustain a DK. Definitely a L2P issue.

LeifErickson

If you are going up against a dk spamming wings in bgs then just give it a couple seconds and they will be out of mag. It's a super expensive skill.

Revelzdevelz

I cant tell that when I shoot 2 skills w/3 LA and procs that its going to shoot me back in the face fast enough. Please nerf

ccmedaddy

Now that frags and spectral bows travel slower than a wamasu, it'll be easier to dodge them when a DK reflects them back to you. xD I love it when a nerf turns out to be a buff in disguise. /s

Galalin

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Now that frags and spectral bows travel slower than a wamasu, it'll be easier to dodge them when a DK reflects them back to you. xD I love it when a nerf turns out to be a buff in disguise. /s

Positive thinking and adapting lol... you sir get an awesome

ak_pvp

Checkmath wrote: »

OP stated to play a Magsorc, right?
I am very confused about that, since a Magsoorc has plenty of skills not affected by wings. One of its deadliest combos actually is unaffected with some adjustements: curse, meteor, rune cage, force pulse, mages wrath. Nothing is reflected. There are plenty of options for magsorcs to adapt to this situation. If OP would play Magblade, I would have understood...

Anyway I do not think wings are overperforming, they do not counter a whole build or class. There are ways to work around it. Otherwise you could also come on the forum and name the new evasion buff as op, since it pretty much counters templars and wardens, also dks have lots of aoe abilities.

I don't like it, it is pretty easy to hardcounter a sorc/rangeNB with it. Rune isn't good and has a delay too, so its not worth running. If I can prevent frags and some light attacks, then I won't get low, and I won't be fury'd.

It is very strong until you run into 2+ people, any melee, or a zerg spamming forcepulse laughing at wings.

Waffennacht

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Perhaps they should rework hardened ward to reflect the next 6 melee attacks... oh the uproar...

Well definitely if it was 6 and not 4.

Also any ranged attack would kill your sorc cuz no shield would help and no heals

Anyway.

It's been nerfed plenty in the past, no double reflect, reflect limit and I think cost

Annulment, Healing Ward. I dont shield stack and I am happy taking on ranged. If I had the choice I would definately go for the melee version

So ... Would you slot hardened for melee, annulment and healing and then also not stack?

If you're slotting a melee only hardened is it your only shield on that bar? That's where I envision the issue. Either your front bar has x2 Shields (annulment and hardened) with healing back, or you're slotting healing back with hardened.

Either way like your bars have a ton of Shields or you have no response to ranged on a single bar.

Moot I know, just curious

Eclipse0990

Please note that as a class design, a dragonknight is a strong melee class. It has been made in such a way that even its skils are mostly melee or gap closers(barring stone fist maybe which knocks down target). Hence, having wings which deter builds staying at range and kiting makes perfect sense for a Dragonknight. I play DK in pvp at times and I don't see a good range build player killing me 1v1. We don't have class shields or siphon heals or purges or cloaks to ensure that we can withstand range onslaught. Wings atleast make enemies consider just spamming their spammables rather than actually just one shotting a DK.
Also, when I play a magsorc, I can still have a good fight against a DK using wings. I just don't use destructive reach on them(which i think baffles and rages most players). But its just 1 skill on my bar. I can still get them down with my other skills.
So as someone said, it is an issue which can be worked around with a bit of effort. And that effort is actually less than coming and writing on forums about how wings make an enemy's evening bad!

Flame_of_Hades

Guys, ignore the OP. im fairly sure saying what happened would violate some of the "Community Rules", so I wont say what happened (take a guess), but he made this post after playing poorly in a BG.

NBrookus

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

You acting as if everyone has it. Amost all classes and skills have counters and there are builds and skills you could use... it's not anyone's fault but your own if you choose not to. You looking at this purely from a selfish point of view so there is no point debating over it. Git gud

Tell me what skills I should use to get around it as a mag sorc?
Be specific if you are going to make silly accusations.

But you strike me as the token forum troll that posts "git gud" in 90% of your posts without any constructive answer so I think ill just ignore you from here.

Can you find one post where I have every said that before? I think not. Stand in your mines and the DK then does what? There are lots of counters and I'm not wasting my time spelling it out for you. This is a l2p issue. Wings have been nerfed enough in the past

Now your just making me laugh... Melee IS the only matter cause there are no ranged DKs right?....just stop... really

If two ranged DKs with Reflective Shield fight each other, is that a "mirror match"?

Not compared to the days of meteor pong.

leepalmer95

Is this betty boomstick i see from fengrushs streams in bg's all the time?

The mag sorc who does nothing but spam fury and overload?

Xvorg

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Why has reflective scales been overlooked so much? It is an "I win" button against ranged play styles. Because of this skill alone I am considering having to change my style or maybe just have a break. It is completely over- powered against ranged. You can use maybe 1/3rd of your tool kit against the DK.

Yes people will say just run away... But how affective is avoiding people because there is no way to beat them in a death match ffs..

There are an abundance of DKs in BGs these days. When this happens you are all but redundant.
I had one DK sit there and laugh at me cause all I could do was curse, pulse and HA channel...

It sucks if the enemy has a brain and use a lit or resto staff

Mihael

Wings is in a weird spot where as a dk I feel I need it to play but as a ranged character playing against it I feel almost completely countered, I think off magblade maybe make their spammable no relfective and for sorc give them a good cc so they don’t have to reach spam and they can use force pulse, and leave wings as it is

Flame_of_Hades

Mihael wrote: »

Wings is in a weird spot where as a dk I feel I need it to play but as a ranged character playing against it I feel almost completely countered, I think off magblade maybe make their spammable no relfective and for sorc give them a good cc so they don’t have to reach spam and they can use force pulse, and leave wings as it is

we saw what happened when sorc was given a good cc, do you want rune cage spam back in your life??

with the changes to the mag blade spammable, that might work, but i think that might be slightly to much, considering most of their damage comes from LA-Swallow Soul-LA-Assassins Will. with the amount of damage it can achieve, thats almost like letting a sorc spam frags and it go through wings.

Ender1310

On my magblade I'm good. I don't need to kill every DK that I come across. Plenty of other choices and targets to pick from. I dun get how some people think.

Ragnarock41

Ender1310 wrote: »

On my magblade I'm good. I don't need to kill every DK that I come across. Plenty of other choices and targets to pick from. I dun get how some people think.

Thats a very good point actually.

Only if people could understand that what makes this game fun is the diversity and one build should never be king versus everything else.
Magblade can go melee or slot different abilities to ignore wings but obviously Dk , as a slow class makes up its for its weakness by using reflect(which was not even strong before they buffed light attacks. Light attacks deal so much damage now that slotting wings is a neccessary to survive longer than 5 seconds open world, even more so for magicka Dks that are in light armor.)

I realize wings are a hard counter in duels but this game is NOT based on duels. this mentality ruined stamDk before, I don't want it to ruin anything else. If you get to spam stuff on a slow melee class from 28 meters while also having more mobility, then that Dk gets to reflect.

Don't like it? build accordingly.

Mihael

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

Wings is in a weird spot where as a dk I feel I need it to play but as a ranged character playing against it I feel almost completely countered, I think off magblade maybe make their spammable no relfective and for sorc give them a good cc so they don’t have to reach spam and they can use force pulse, and leave wings as it is

we saw what happened when sorc was given a good cc, do you want rune cage spam back in your life??

with the changes to the mag blade spammable, that might work, but i think that might be slightly to much, considering most of their damage comes from LA-Swallow Soul-LA-Assassins Will. with the amount of damage it can achieve, thats almost like letting a sorc spam frags and it go through wings.

im not asking for something as broken as rune cage but any cc would do to not force sorcs to run master destro with reach spam, like frags cc to come back

thankyourat

Ender1310 wrote: »

On my magblade I'm good. I don't need to kill every DK that I come across. Plenty of other choices and targets to pick from. I dun get how some people think.

But that's not really a option if you play solo because the dk will always target you with roots and snares which also counter magblade. you need to kill the mag dk so you can have a once of mobility, but you cant because of wings. That's why I always place magblade toward the bottom for open world PvP. Being hard countered when you are outnumbered is one of the worse things that can happen. Not to mention there are 3 mag dks for every 1 magblade. Wings are surprisingly not a problem in duels though because my dueling magblade build has so much damage I can 1 shot as soon as wings are down. No way to play that build open world though

The worse thing though is despite the opinion of some players on the forums magblade doesn't have any viable melee options for damage. Concealed is pretty bad and will get you killed faster than trying to play at range. So there is no real way to adapt to wings. You basically have to disengage the 1vX completely. I recently put cloak back on my bar just to escape mag dks. That's the only thing I use the ability for.

BigBadVolk

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Because it is either amazing, or completely useless. It is incredibly strong against one or two ranged players who only have reflectable attacks, ie NB, overload Sorc, Sorc's relying on frags, archers, etc. But it is damn near useless against multiple ranged players, where it genuinely goes down half a second after you cast it, or a player with more than a few unreflectable attacks, ie Curse, Force Pulse, Endless Fury, etc. There is no middle ground. It is either amazing, or completely useless.

It also doesn't help that the list of skills that can be reflected by wings is full of special cases, both being able to and not being able to be reflected. NB's Cripple can be reflected, even though I seriously don't think it is a projectile, and Warden's bird I am almost certain cannot be reflected. Ultimates aren't reflected, or even absorbed. Set procs are just ignored.

If you want to cry about overperforming skills, look at Warden's Shimmering Shield, which offers projectile absorption (based on a flat amount of damage, not a flat number of projectiles, so weak ass light attacks from multiple players won't delete your Shimmering like they do wings), magicka return per spell projectile, and Major Heroism. Shimmering is 10x stronger than wings, for Major Heroism alone.

Or, better yet, L2P. Wings has counters. It's an expensive skill that only reflects certain projectiles, and it can be deleted by pelting the DK with projectiles. As a Sorc, you have Curse, Fury and Force Pulse available to you. Use them. Stop asking for *** to be nerfed.

Pretty much this. /thread

soooo its like cloak

Grimlok_S

I ouch when I mindlessly overload dk wings, pls delet

Joshlenoir

Yeah as long as players can sit at a 30+ meter range and spam snipe or lethal arrow, which major fractures or major defiles me for basically no risk at all- I'm gonna go ahead and say wings is just fine as is.
Wings costs 4k Magicka to keep up basically and can be removed by simple light attack weaves, when fighting more than one person you have to constantly spam it to keep it up, which requires high Magicka sustain.

It's so irritating when people cry for Nerf's against abilities that give players some sort of uniqueness in PvP and ability to hold their own. Just because you've built all your DPS around ranged spammables behind the comfort of a large group doesn't mean wings are objectively overpowered.

If you're going to complain about wings then let's go ahead and make snipe a 15 meter range and nerf shimmering shield.

NBrookus

thankyourat wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

On my magblade I'm good. I don't need to kill every DK that I come across. Plenty of other choices and targets to pick from. I dun get how some people think.

But that's not really a option if you play solo because the dk will always target you with roots and snares which also counter magblade. you need to kill the mag dk so you can have a once of mobility, but you cant because of wings.

Dodgeroll into cloak... laugh at DK spamming Armor or Deep Breath from a safe distance?

IZZEFlameLash

NBrookus wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

On my magblade I'm good. I don't need to kill every DK that I come across. Plenty of other choices and targets to pick from. I dun get how some people think.

But that's not really a option if you play solo because the dk will always target you with roots and snares which also counter magblade. you need to kill the mag dk so you can have a once of mobility, but you cant because of wings.

Dodgeroll into cloak... laugh at DK spamming Armor or Deep Breath from a safe distance?

Literally what I do and harass DK at range. They can try to come to me but most end up running because 1. They flapped wings too much that they are low on resource. 2. Me catching them offguard and dealing damage is forcing them to find some LoSable spot for them to heal. Literally, DK is countered heavily by ranged builds. Now, if I wanted to be more malicious, I'd run Force Shock but I do fine with Swallow Soul. Kinda ironic that class with reflect is countered by range. Lol.