Reflective Scales

Betty_Booms

Why has reflective scales been overlooked so much? It is an "I win" button against ranged play styles. Because of this skill alone I am considering having to change my style or maybe just have a break. It is completely over- powered against ranged. You can use maybe 1/3rd of your tool kit against the DK.

Yes people will say just run away... But how affective is avoiding people because there is no way to beat them in a death match ffs..

There are an abundance of DKs in BGs these days. When this happens you are all but redundant.
I had one DK sit there and laugh at me cause all I could do was curse, pulse and HA channel...

ak_pvp

It sucks. But you gotta look on the other side. Its useless against melee builds, and vs multiple ranged targets who mow it down near instantly

Its no different to say purge which counters dot builds, or harness, which gives near infinite sustain and shields vs mag builds, and is useful against other ones. Compared to things like shimmer or cloak its laughable.

I'd be fine with it being changed completely, but blanket nerfing it is stupid.

VaranisArano

Probably because its an "I win" button against ranged builds and useless against melee.

PVP in this game is balamced like "Rock, Paper, Scissors, so DK wings makes perfect sense in that light.

Galalin

Lol another change everyone's playstyle to suit my playstyle post.... how cute

Betty_Booms

Galalin wrote: »

Lol another change everyone's playstyle to suit my playstyle post.... how cute

Please think before posting nonsense. Its about balance and the fact I feel pidgeon holed into melee. Cloak and shields are getting nerfed btw. what about RC? nooo. Any real player understands how ridiculous this skill is. Its why there are so many DKs in BGs now cause you can literally mitigate an entire play style.

Betty_Booms

ak_pvp wrote: »

It sucks. But you gotta look on the other side. Its useless against melee builds, and vs multiple ranged targets who mow it down near instantly

Its no different to say purge which counters dot builds, or harness, which gives near infinite sustain and shields vs mag builds, and is useful against other ones. Compared to things like shimmer or cloak its laughable.

I'd be fine with it being changed completely, but blanket nerfing it is stupid.

I see what you are saying. But purge does not reflect the damage back to the attacker and it removes 2 harmfull affects not 6. Harness Magicka is a much greater cost. Must be magic damage to get magicka return and is available to all classes - and is getting nerfed. Cloak is getting destroyed by the nerf bat and I would much rather have a fighting chance against shimmer then smash my own face in with RC...

The problem is rock is trumping the rest right now.

idk

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Lol another change everyone's playstyle to suit my playstyle post.... how cute

Please think before posting nonsense. Its about balance and the fact I feel pidgeon holed into melee. Cloak and shields are getting nerfed btw. what about RC? nooo. Any real player understands how ridiculous this skill is. Its why there are so many DKs in BGs now cause you can literally mitigate an entire play style.

TBF, it is about a perception of balance from a single vantage point. While the skill is still useful, it is a shell of it's former self in many ways.

Further, During the past few weeks I think we have had a record number of threads created to nerf all sorts of skills. The forums are probably getting tired of such threads.

Edit: when did Zos say they were nerfing cloak? It is not part of the PTS patch notes which is why I am asking.

Betty_Booms

idk wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Lol another change everyone's playstyle to suit my playstyle post.... how cute

Please think before posting nonsense. Its about balance and the fact I feel pidgeon holed into melee. Cloak and shields are getting nerfed btw. what about RC? nooo. Any real player understands how ridiculous this skill is. Its why there are so many DKs in BGs now cause you can literally mitigate an entire play style.

TBF, it is about a perception of balance from a single vantage point. While the skill is still useful, it is a shell of it's former self in many ways.

Further, During the past few weeks I think we have had a record number of threads created to nerf all sorts of skills. The forums are probably getting tired of such threads.

Edit: when did Zos say they were nerfing cloak? It is not part of the PTS patch notes which is why I am asking.

Sorry MB nerfing evasion not cloak. I don't mind cloak as its a means to escape not a means to sit there and allow someone to kill themselves by pressing 1 button and taking no damage.

And yes other things are being nerfed leaving this skill over performing and out of balance..

Galalin

You acting as if everyone has it. Amost all classes and skills have counters and there are builds and skills you could use... it's not anyone's fault but your own if you choose not to. You looking at this purely from a selfish point of view so there is no point debating over it. Git gud

Betty_Booms

Galalin wrote: »

You acting as if everyone has it. Amost all classes and skills have counters and there are builds and skills you could use... it's not anyone's fault but your own if you choose not to. You looking at this purely from a selfish point of view so there is no point debating over it. Git gud

Tell me what skills I should use to get around it as a mag sorc?
Be specific if you are going to make silly accusations.

But you strike me as the token forum troll that posts "git gud" in 90% of your posts without any constructive answer so I think ill just ignore you from here.

Stratforge

I'd be more open to the OPs argument if wing-spamming DKs were actually overperforming. Since they're not, I can't bring myself to get too worked up.

Galalin

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

You acting as if everyone has it. Amost all classes and skills have counters and there are builds and skills you could use... it's not anyone's fault but your own if you choose not to. You looking at this purely from a selfish point of view so there is no point debating over it. Git gud

Tell me what skills I should use to get around it as a mag sorc?
Be specific if you are going to make silly accusations.

But you strike me as the token forum troll that posts "git gud" in 90% of your posts without any constructive answer so I think ill just ignore you from here.

Can you find one post where I have every said that before? I think not. Stand in your mines and the DK then does what? There are lots of counters and I'm not wasting my time spelling it out for you. This is a l2p issue. Wings have been nerfed enough in the past

brandonv516

In duels against classes like ranged MagBlade, no question they are OP. In all other PvP that actually matters, they have many counters (melee, Force Pulse, AoE to name a few).

I think they are fine though.

Casul

If I see I’m up against DK I just equip shimmer shield, force pulse, and soul assault.

Shimmering shield + light attack = free major heroism

Force pulse mixed with light attacks to keep forcing magicka waste from the DK

Soul assault to hurt the stamina pool

Usually ends in a pretty fair fight.

As a non warden I would just use force pulse + soul assault

VaranisArano

brandonv516 wrote: »

In duels against classes like ranged MagBlade, no question they are OP. In all other PvP that actually matters, they have many counters (melee, Force Pulse, AoE to name a few).

I think they are fine though.

In fairness, lots of things are OP in duels that are balanced in BGs and Cyrodiil. There's a reason dueling tournaments have a list of rules and disallowed sets.

Waffennacht

Hey, they are countering the meta.

When you have this many Stam sorcs and stam NBs with bows and lethal arrow you're gonna get people to start building for pure counters.

The Stam Meta is so strong (i.e. roll dodge) that you're getting "non-projectile" Sorcs (stealing another member's words)

I think it's more than fair; as a Stam bow user I think it's great - it shows a healthy environment when builds and counter builds develope.

I also have to change my build now, the large amount of dk wings has really worked well against my bow, I'm thinking 2h myself

Betty_Booms

brandonv516 wrote: »

In duels against classes like ranged MagBlade, no question they are OP. In all other PvP that actually matters, they have many counters (melee, Force Pulse, AoE to name a few).

I think they are fine though.

This somes up my point. Why does ranged pvp not matter?

Betty_Booms

Any Mag Sorcs here (mains) that want to share their opinion? Are there any left lol?

Ok- so someone answer this question. Name any other skill in the game that not only mitigates such a large array of skills, light attacks etc AND reverts all that damage to the attacker...

I would be ok if it just mitigated the damager OR reverted the damage back- not both.

Also Mag sorcs rely on lining up damage cause they f all.
take away LAs and half your damage options and its gg it really is.

arkansas_ESO

Less of an issue with wings and an issue with what is/isn't reflectable IMO: hard-hitting abilities like Snipe should be reflectable, of course, because then otherwise reflect has no use, but should magblade, a ranged class whose entire strength is it's class skills, really not have a single non-projectile ranged ability in it's toolkit?

Betty_Booms

Galalin wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

You acting as if everyone has it. Amost all classes and skills have counters and there are builds and skills you could use... it's not anyone's fault but your own if you choose not to. You looking at this purely from a selfish point of view so there is no point debating over it. Git gud

Tell me what skills I should use to get around it as a mag sorc?
Be specific if you are going to make silly accusations.

But you strike me as the token forum troll that posts "git gud" in 90% of your posts without any constructive answer so I think ill just ignore you from here.

Can you find one post where I have every said that before? I think not. Stand in your mines and the DK then does what? There are lots of counters and I'm not wasting my time spelling it out for you. This is a l2p issue. Wings have been nerfed enough in the past

Now your just making me laugh... Melee IS the only matter cause there are no ranged DKs right?....just stop... really

Betty_Booms

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Less of an issue with wings and an issue with what is/isn't reflectable IMO: hard-hitting abilities like Snipe should be reflectable, of course, because then otherwise reflect has no use, but should magblade, a ranged class whose entire strength is it's class skills, really not have a single non-projectile ranged ability in it's toolkit?

I completely agree with you here.

Betty_Booms

Perhaps they should rework hardened ward to reflect the next 6 melee attacks... oh the uproar...

Waffennacht

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Perhaps they should rework hardened ward to reflect the next 6 melee attacks... oh the uproar...

Well definitely if it was 6 and not 4.

Also any ranged attack would kill your sorc cuz no shield would help and no heals

Anyway.

It's been nerfed plenty in the past, no double reflect, reflect limit and I think cost

Betty_Booms

Waffennacht wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Perhaps they should rework hardened ward to reflect the next 6 melee attacks... oh the uproar...

Well definitely if it was 6 and not 4.

Also any ranged attack would kill your sorc cuz no shield would help and no heals

Anyway.

It's been nerfed plenty in the past, no double reflect, reflect limit and I think cost

Annulment, Healing Ward. I dont shield stack and I am happy taking on ranged. If I had the choice I would definately go for the melee version

mojomood

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Why has reflective scales been overlooked so much? It is an "I win" button against ranged play styles. Because of this skill alone I am considering having to change my style or maybe just have a break. It is completely over- powered against ranged. You can use maybe 1/3rd of your tool kit against the DK.

Yes people will say just run away... But how affective is avoiding people because there is no way to beat them in a death match ffs..

There are an abundance of DKs in BGs these days. When this happens you are all but redundant.
I had one DK sit there and laugh at me cause all I could do was curse, pulse and HA channel...

When I play ranged magblade, none of my kit can hit them except Soul Harvest. Definitely a tough matchup. If you use a resto backbar with a spell damage enchant, light attack spam them while kiting. Eventually they will run out of magicka as wings is not cheap...and you'll have your burst charged.

Ultimately, wings is not broken since it scales very poorly.

Didgerion

Is reflective scales your only problem?
How about other reflective skills that targets magica builds only.... How about negate magic that guards or other sorcs drop on you? What about stuns and roots that magica builds have no counter to it? What about sprinting in light armor?.... Magica players are having hard time in pvp. All things mentioned above should have same impact on all skills and builds... and not target magica setups only.

regime211

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Why has reflective scales been overlooked so much? It is an "I win" button against ranged play styles. Because of this skill alone I am considering having to change my style or maybe just have a break. It is completely over- powered against ranged. You can use maybe 1/3rd of your tool kit against the DK.

Yes people will say just run away... But how affective is avoiding people because there is no way to beat them in a death match ffs..

There are an abundance of DKs in BGs these days. When this happens you are all but redundant.
I had one DK sit there and laugh at me cause all I could do was curse, pulse and HA channel...

Give it a rest already.

regime211

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

You acting as if everyone has it. Amost all classes and skills have counters and there are builds and skills you could use... it's not anyone's fault but your own if you choose not to. You looking at this purely from a selfish point of view so there is no point debating over it. Git gud

Tell me what skills I should use to get around it as a mag sorc?
Be specific if you are going to make silly accusations.

But you strike me as the token forum troll that posts "git gud" in 90% of your posts without any constructive answer so I think ill just ignore you from here.

As a mag sorc? Seriously you just have a learn to play issue.

FrancisCrawford

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

You acting as if everyone has it. Amost all classes and skills have counters and there are builds and skills you could use... it's not anyone's fault but your own if you choose not to. You looking at this purely from a selfish point of view so there is no point debating over it. Git gud

Tell me what skills I should use to get around it as a mag sorc?
Be specific if you are going to make silly accusations.

But you strike me as the token forum troll that posts "git gud" in 90% of your posts without any constructive answer so I think ill just ignore you from here.

Can you find one post where I have every said that before? I think not. Stand in your mines and the DK then does what? There are lots of counters and I'm not wasting my time spelling it out for you. This is a l2p issue. Wings have been nerfed enough in the past

Now your just making me laugh... Melee IS the only matter cause there are no ranged DKs right?....just stop... really

If two ranged DKs with Reflective Shield fight each other, is that a "mirror match"?

IZZEFlameLash

Cloak's getting nerfed where and when? Are you sure croaking isn't the one getting nerfed not Cloak?

ak_pvp

Betty_Booms wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

It sucks. But you gotta look on the other side. Its useless against melee builds, and vs multiple ranged targets who mow it down near instantly

Its no different to say purge which counters dot builds, or harness, which gives near infinite sustain and shields vs mag builds, and is useful against other ones. Compared to things like shimmer or cloak its laughable.

I'd be fine with it being changed completely, but blanket nerfing it is stupid.

I see what you are saying. But purge does not reflect the damage back to the attacker and it removes 2 harmfull affects not 6. Harness Magicka is a much greater cost. Must be magic damage to get magicka return and is available to all classes - and is getting nerfed. Cloak is getting destroyed by the nerf bat and I would much rather have a fighting chance against shimmer then smash my own face in with RC...

The problem is rock is trumping the rest right now.

Templar purge is 5 abilities. And includes every single on target effect. DK wings is 4 and has many many exemptions. Cloak isn't getting nerfed, no where near, its getting buffed cause mark is less duration and evasion for NBs means less pain when being revealed by an AoE. Remember cloak stops all ST attacks, dots and makes them invisible, it has no numerical limit. All the reveals more sacrificial for the revealer.

Harness is mildly nerfed, but it is also buffed vs low pen builds. So no, its also still going to be very strong. It being accessible isn't an excuse for its strengths, its any spell dmg, not just magic, so fire, ice, shock, etc. It returns more mag than it costs. But I am going to guess you are defending it because you use it.
Shimmering is cheaper and gives heroism to one of the strongest classes in the game.

Betty_Booms wrote: »

Perhaps they should rework hardened ward to reflect the next 6 melee attacks... oh the uproar...

Do it do it do it do it do it.
4 melee attacks, but remember to add the same amount of exemptions wings has. Have fun with your shield being destroyed by 2 players light attacking you.