Give Light Armor a snare break

lucky_dutch
lucky_dutch
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Even if it’s just via potions or something. It’s absolutely crazy that Light Armor users only way to shift out of snares is to go vampire which has enormous (over-the-top, imo) downsides in PvP.

It’s even more crazy considering that stam not only have the only access to snare breaks but also by far the strongest snares.

Needs fixing ASAP!
Edited by lucky_dutch on October 18, 2018 10:42PM
  • Liam12548
    Liam12548
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    ^ Mist and FM are not even remotely close in terms of being useful in combat. I'd trade mist for a magicka based FM any time, any day.

    Mist grants major expedition (and can be cancelled for just the major expedition), gives massive damage reduction, immunity to ccs, and immunity to snares. Forward gives a 32 second mediocre HoT, brutality, and the same duration immunity to snares with no cc immunity.

    They seem pretty comparable to me.
    React Faster - XB NA - Longtime Solo & Small scale PvP player
    1250+ CP

    Characters (All AP earned Solo or in groups smaller than 5/BG's)
    Heal R - AD redguard Templar - AR 50
    Lurkist - AD Argonian Blade - AR 32 - Played as both mag and stam
    Or Sorc - AD redguard sorcerer - AR 33
    Bearenstein - AD high elf warden - AR 25 - Changed from stam to magicka 12/10/18
    Heel'Ar - AD redguard dragonknight - AR 23
    Your Dad's Dad - AD Dark elf dragonknight - AR 19
    Second Class Citizen - DC Redguard Templar - AR 11

    Content
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    ^ Mist and FM are not even remotely close in terms of being useful in combat. I'd trade mist for a magicka based FM any time, any day.

    Mist grants major expedition (and can be cancelled for just the major expedition), gives massive damage reduction, immunity to ccs, and immunity to snares. Forward gives a 32 second mediocre HoT, brutality, and the same duration immunity to snares with no cc immunity.

    They seem pretty comparable to me.

    Let's list the downside for each:

    FM: Restricted to a Two Hander on one bar.

    Mist: Requires a massive hit to Flame Resistance, Health Recovery, and degrades character appearance.

    C'mon not that comparable when you look at it this way!

    Doesn't it also stop magicka regen?
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    Kadoin wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    ^ Mist and FM are not even remotely close in terms of being useful in combat. I'd trade mist for a magicka based FM any time, any day.

    Mist grants major expedition (and can be cancelled for just the major expedition), gives massive damage reduction, immunity to ccs, and immunity to snares. Forward gives a 32 second mediocre HoT, brutality, and the same duration immunity to snares with no cc immunity.

    They seem pretty comparable to me.

    Let's list the downside for each:

    FM: Restricted to a Two Hander on one bar.

    Mist: Requires a massive hit to Flame Resistance, Health Recovery, and degrades character appearance.

    C'mon not that comparable when you look at it this way!

    Doesn't it also stop magicka regen?

    Can't believe I forgot that one.
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    I mean - DKs and Templars have been using Mist Form not because it’s a great skill but because they had no choice. Says a lot about the skill really if 3/5 classes don’t bother even with the snare immunity.
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 41 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Maeglin the Dark Elf - DC Dunmer mDK (relegated to crafting duty)
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Orc stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 980+. Playing solo PvP mostly on EU PC Sotha Sil (or with a wonderful guild of friends)
  • cpuScientist
    cpuScientist
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    Mist form is not comparable to forward. It's basically just an escape. Whereas forward is used to be mobile in the actual fight AS WELL as an escape.
  • lucky_dutch
    lucky_dutch
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    Mist form is not comparable to forward. It's basically just an escape. Whereas forward is used to be mobile in the actual fight AS WELL as an escape.

    An escape that comes with a laundry list of nasty side effects for the user.

    To be fair, if they wanted to buff vampire for light armor users (nerf the nasty side effects or reduce them if you're wearing light), that would help a great deal with armor balance.
  • Liam12548
    Liam12548
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    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?
    React Faster - XB NA - Longtime Solo & Small scale PvP player
    1250+ CP

    Characters (All AP earned Solo or in groups smaller than 5/BG's)
    Heal R - AD redguard Templar - AR 50
    Lurkist - AD Argonian Blade - AR 32 - Played as both mag and stam
    Or Sorc - AD redguard sorcerer - AR 33
    Bearenstein - AD high elf warden - AR 25 - Changed from stam to magicka 12/10/18
    Heel'Ar - AD redguard dragonknight - AR 23
    Your Dad's Dad - AD Dark elf dragonknight - AR 19
    Second Class Citizen - DC Redguard Templar - AR 11

    Content
  • lucky_dutch
    lucky_dutch
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.

    Seriously feel this constantly - almost thinking dropping vamp because every stam class is now running DBOS and prismatic enchants, the damage you take is just stupid.
  • Liam12548
    Liam12548
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.

    See, on my mag class(es), I run mist in group and drop vamp solo. You dont feel the loss of mobility as much if you position yourself near proper LoS as any experienced solo player should. Sure, snares destroy any non nightblade magicka class if they get caught out, but that's sort of something you need to adjust for.

    In small scale (6 or smaller) you need mist because the size of the groups you're pulling and the distance you're pulling them means theres a lot more time for you to get snared - and you're frequently engaging without a LoS immediately nearby.

    I dont know if you pvp so I won't make any assumptions, but I have over 5,000 hours across 7 different classes IN pvp, never playing in a group larger than 6 and the majority of the time playing solo. I've had a good amount of time to weight the pros and cons of different snare immunities, and the above remarks are my conclusions.

    But once again, neither mist nor forward is limited to mag or stam. The only immunity limited to mag or stam is shuffle being limited to stam, and shuffle is inferior to forward/mist. So I'd say if anything, you're incorrect about "stam having exclusive access to the strongest snare immunities".
    Edited by Liam12548 on October 19, 2018 2:28PM
    React Faster - XB NA - Longtime Solo & Small scale PvP player
    1250+ CP

    Characters (All AP earned Solo or in groups smaller than 5/BG's)
    Heal R - AD redguard Templar - AR 50
    Lurkist - AD Argonian Blade - AR 32 - Played as both mag and stam
    Or Sorc - AD redguard sorcerer - AR 33
    Bearenstein - AD high elf warden - AR 25 - Changed from stam to magicka 12/10/18
    Heel'Ar - AD redguard dragonknight - AR 23
    Your Dad's Dad - AD Dark elf dragonknight - AR 19
    Second Class Citizen - DC Redguard Templar - AR 11

    Content
  • HEBREWHAMMERRR
    HEBREWHAMMERRR
    ✭✭✭✭
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.

    See, on my mag class(es), I run mist in group and drop vamp solo. You dont feel the loss of mobility as much if you position yourself near proper LoS as any experienced solo player should. Sure, snares destroy any non nightblade magicka class if they get caught out, but that's sort of something you need to adjust for.

    In small scale (6 or smaller) you need mist because the size of the groups you're pulling and the distance you're pulling them means theres a lot more time for you to get snared - and you're frequently engaging without a LoS immediately nearby.

    I dont know if you pvp so I won't make any assumptions, but I have over 5,000 hours across 7 different classes IN pvp, never playing in a group larger than 6 and the majority of the time playing solo. I've had a good amount of time to weight the pros and cons of different snare immunities, and the above remarks are my conclusions.

    But once again, neither mist nor forward is limited to mag or stam. The only immunity limited to mag or stam is shuffle being limited to stam, and shuffle is inferior to forward/mist. So I'd say if anything, you're incorrect about "stam having exclusive access to the strongest snare immunities".

    This is the guy who says that PC is superior to console and we don’t know what we are talking about because we aren’t on PTS and is screaming the end of the world for magblade. He tried this belittling angle to me as well in another thread regarding BG MMR because I told him heavy armor magblade is very viable and will be even better next patch. Lol
  • lucky_dutch
    lucky_dutch
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.

    See, on my mag class(es), I run mist in group and drop vamp solo. You dont feel the loss of mobility as much if you position yourself near proper LoS as any experienced solo player should. Sure, snares destroy any non nightblade magicka class if they get caught out, but that's sort of something you need to adjust for.

    In small scale (6 or smaller) you need mist because the size of the groups you're pulling and the distance you're pulling them means theres a lot more time for you to get snared - and you're frequently engaging without a LoS immediately nearby.

    I dont know if you pvp so I won't make any assumptions, but I have over 5,000 hours across 7 different classes IN pvp, never playing in a group larger than 6 and the majority of the time playing solo. I've had a good amount of time to weight the pros and cons of different snare immunities, and the above remarks are my conclusions.

    But once again, neither mist nor forward is limited to mag or stam. The only immunity limited to mag or stam is shuffle being limited to stam, and shuffle is inferior to forward/mist. So I'd say if anything, you're incorrect about "stam having exclusive access to the strongest snare immunities".

    This is the guy who says that PC is superior to console and we don’t know what we are talking about because we aren’t on PTS and is screaming the end of the world for magblade. He tried this belittling angle to me as well in another thread regarding BG MMR because I told him heavy armor magblade is very viable and will be even better next patch. Lol

    You following me from thread to thread now?

    All I did was point out that your argument was seriously flawed. “Damage done” means absolutely nothing in BGs and if you still can’t understand that, you will never improve.

    And for the record, I wasn’t patronising the above poster. Idk what random forum posters spend their time in ESO doing. I do find it hard to not patronise you though, in the same way it’s hard not to patronise toddlers. I suppose it’s not patronising, you’re just speaking at their intellectual capacity.
    Edited by lucky_dutch on October 19, 2018 5:00PM
  • HEBREWHAMMERRR
    HEBREWHAMMERRR
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.

    See, on my mag class(es), I run mist in group and drop vamp solo. You dont feel the loss of mobility as much if you position yourself near proper LoS as any experienced solo player should. Sure, snares destroy any non nightblade magicka class if they get caught out, but that's sort of something you need to adjust for.

    In small scale (6 or smaller) you need mist because the size of the groups you're pulling and the distance you're pulling them means theres a lot more time for you to get snared - and you're frequently engaging without a LoS immediately nearby.

    I dont know if you pvp so I won't make any assumptions, but I have over 5,000 hours across 7 different classes IN pvp, never playing in a group larger than 6 and the majority of the time playing solo. I've had a good amount of time to weight the pros and cons of different snare immunities, and the above remarks are my conclusions.

    But once again, neither mist nor forward is limited to mag or stam. The only immunity limited to mag or stam is shuffle being limited to stam, and shuffle is inferior to forward/mist. So I'd say if anything, you're incorrect about "stam having exclusive access to the strongest snare immunities".

    This is the guy who says that PC is superior to console and we don’t know what we are talking about because we aren’t on PTS and is screaming the end of the world for magblade. He tried this belittling angle to me as well in another thread regarding BG MMR because I told him heavy armor magblade is very viable and will be even better next patch. Lol

    You following me from thread to thread now?

    All I did was point out that your argument was seriously flawed. “Damage done” means absolutely nothing in BGs and if you still can’t understand that, you will never improve.

    And for the record, I wasn’t patronising the above poster. Idk what random forum posters spend their time in ESO doing. I do find it hard to not patronise you though, in the same way it’s hard not to patronise toddlers. I suppose it’s not patronising, you’re just speaking at their intellectual capacity.

    Your go-to response to any constructive conversation is to belittle and try to make a snarky comment that “your MMR must be low” or “I assume you don’t pvp much” for anything that goes against your perspective. This post, much like your magblade pity party post is one in the same. I told you that heavy armor or defensive sets can help your survivability and I immediately must be a bad player. What if I told you I also have a 2H magblade build for..FORWARD MOMENTUM?! Is this a radical solution to this entire thread. Also, you can run escapist poisons, they work wonders.
  • HEBREWHAMMERRR
    HEBREWHAMMERRR
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    This game is all about giving and taking in areas to fine tune a build to your playstyle. If there was a magical tanky light armor, immovable, heavy burst build; everyone would run it.
  • lucky_dutch
    lucky_dutch
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.

    See, on my mag class(es), I run mist in group and drop vamp solo. You dont feel the loss of mobility as much if you position yourself near proper LoS as any experienced solo player should. Sure, snares destroy any non nightblade magicka class if they get caught out, but that's sort of something you need to adjust for.

    In small scale (6 or smaller) you need mist because the size of the groups you're pulling and the distance you're pulling them means theres a lot more time for you to get snared - and you're frequently engaging without a LoS immediately nearby.

    I dont know if you pvp so I won't make any assumptions, but I have over 5,000 hours across 7 different classes IN pvp, never playing in a group larger than 6 and the majority of the time playing solo. I've had a good amount of time to weight the pros and cons of different snare immunities, and the above remarks are my conclusions.

    But once again, neither mist nor forward is limited to mag or stam. The only immunity limited to mag or stam is shuffle being limited to stam, and shuffle is inferior to forward/mist. So I'd say if anything, you're incorrect about "stam having exclusive access to the strongest snare immunities".

    This is the guy who says that PC is superior to console and we don’t know what we are talking about because we aren’t on PTS and is screaming the end of the world for magblade. He tried this belittling angle to me as well in another thread regarding BG MMR because I told him heavy armor magblade is very viable and will be even better next patch. Lol

    You following me from thread to thread now?

    All I did was point out that your argument was seriously flawed. “Damage done” means absolutely nothing in BGs and if you still can’t understand that, you will never improve.

    And for the record, I wasn’t patronising the above poster. Idk what random forum posters spend their time in ESO doing. I do find it hard to not patronise you though, in the same way it’s hard not to patronise toddlers. I suppose it’s not patronising, you’re just speaking at their intellectual capacity.

    Your go-to response to any constructive conversation is to belittle and try to make a snarky comment that “your MMR must be low” or “I assume you don’t pvp much” for anything that goes against your perspective. This post, much like your magblade pity party post is one in the same. I told you that heavy armor or defensive sets can help your survivability and I immediately must be a bad player. What if I told you I also have a 2H magblade build for..FORWARD MOMENTUM?! Is this a radical solution to this entire thread. Also, you can run escapist poisons, they work wonders.

    2h builds can work.

    Heavy builds can work in CP Cyro because 1vX is about sustaining and capitalising on mistakes.

    Heavy Magblade builds are terrible in BGs because you compromise way too much burst by taking heavy and other mag classes have better steady pressure so are better choices for heavy builds.

    An equally skilled heavy MagDK or Magplar will out-perform a heavy Magblade 100% of the time in BGs.

    You might be proud of your build that you do OK on in a middling MMR but that doesn’t change the facts.

  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    Purge exists, too, though the cost is too prohibitive to use as a routine source of snare removal.

    Honestly, I think snare tweaks are going in the right direction--snare durations have been shortened significantly. you still end up with ridiculous permasnare in some situations, but it's been worse.

    I think the following 2 changes would make snares much less annoying, but make them still have a lot of utility:
    1. If you block cancel out of mistform, you lose the damage redux but keep the major expedition and snare immunity for teh rest of the skill's duration.
    2. Dodgerolling gives 1 second of snare immunity (or .5 seconds, or 1.2 seconds, or whatever feels right). I hate dodgerolling when snared currently: your character darts across the field like an acrobat....then slows to a crawl with the next step.

    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
  • iCaliban
    iCaliban
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Mist form is 4 seconds. Forward momentum is 4 seconds. Shuffle is 2.5 seconds. Light armor gets passive snare reduction.

    How exactly does stam have access to the strongest snare immunity?

    Mist is a huge hindrance in pvp. In order to have it, you must be a vampire, which guarantees more damage from dawnbreaker and fire damage - ie everyone in pvp, this trade off makes vampire a huge liability

    Edit: and running 2h as a mag class is a ridiculous solution. 2h does absolutely nothing for mag toons other than snare removal. That is like removing all healing from stamina and telling them to run resto staff. Defeats the entire point of being a stam toon.
    Edited by iCaliban on October 19, 2018 6:32PM
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.

    See, on my mag class(es), I run mist in group and drop vamp solo. You dont feel the loss of mobility as much if you position yourself near proper LoS as any experienced solo player should. Sure, snares destroy any non nightblade magicka class if they get caught out, but that's sort of something you need to adjust for.

    In small scale (6 or smaller) you need mist because the size of the groups you're pulling and the distance you're pulling them means theres a lot more time for you to get snared - and you're frequently engaging without a LoS immediately nearby.

    I dont know if you pvp so I won't make any assumptions, but I have over 5,000 hours across 7 different classes IN pvp, never playing in a group larger than 6 and the majority of the time playing solo. I've had a good amount of time to weight the pros and cons of different snare immunities, and the above remarks are my conclusions.

    But once again, neither mist nor forward is limited to mag or stam. The only immunity limited to mag or stam is shuffle being limited to stam, and shuffle is inferior to forward/mist. So I'd say if anything, you're incorrect about "stam having exclusive access to the strongest snare immunities".

    This is the guy who says that PC is superior to console and we don’t know what we are talking about because we aren’t on PTS and is screaming the end of the world for magblade. He tried this belittling angle to me as well in another thread regarding BG MMR because I told him heavy armor magblade is very viable and will be even better next patch. Lol

    You following me from thread to thread now?

    All I did was point out that your argument was seriously flawed. “Damage done” means absolutely nothing in BGs and if you still can’t understand that, you will never improve.

    And for the record, I wasn’t patronising the above poster. Idk what random forum posters spend their time in ESO doing. I do find it hard to not patronise you though, in the same way it’s hard not to patronise toddlers. I suppose it’s not patronising, you’re just speaking at their intellectual capacity.

    Your go-to response to any constructive conversation is to belittle and try to make a snarky comment that “your MMR must be low” or “I assume you don’t pvp much” for anything that goes against your perspective. This post, much like your magblade pity party post is one in the same. I told you that heavy armor or defensive sets can help your survivability and I immediately must be a bad player. What if I told you I also have a 2H magblade build for..FORWARD MOMENTUM?! Is this a radical solution to this entire thread. Also, you can run escapist poisons, they work wonders.

    2h builds can work.

    Heavy builds can work in CP Cyro because 1vX is about sustaining and capitalising on mistakes.

    Heavy Magblade builds are terrible in BGs because you compromise way too much burst by taking heavy and other mag classes have better steady pressure so are better choices for heavy builds.

    An equally skilled heavy MagDK or Magplar will out-perform a heavy Magblade 100% of the time in BGs.

    You might be proud of your build that you do OK on in a middling MMR but that doesn’t change the facts.

    I have to disagree here man. With my setup the survivability is great, the sets are IMO a perfect combo for burst and I still run with ~1800+ recovery with a potion.

    I don't hold back sharing with the community:

    Destro/Resto
    5 Torugs (Heavy)
    5 Caluurions (Infused Inferno Staff)
    *Use Force Pulse instead of Swallow Soul (OP for this setup)
    2 Troll King

    Resto can be vMA, Willpower, or Black Rose.

    I have ran this exact build in LA also and it's deadlier but with the changes to Healing Ward and Dampen (haven't tested yet), I just don't have faith in LA as much on a MagBlade.

    I will likely still test it with LA but for the time being I'm comfortable in HA.
  • lucky_dutch
    lucky_dutch
    ✭✭✭✭
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.

    See, on my mag class(es), I run mist in group and drop vamp solo. You dont feel the loss of mobility as much if you position yourself near proper LoS as any experienced solo player should. Sure, snares destroy any non nightblade magicka class if they get caught out, but that's sort of something you need to adjust for.

    In small scale (6 or smaller) you need mist because the size of the groups you're pulling and the distance you're pulling them means theres a lot more time for you to get snared - and you're frequently engaging without a LoS immediately nearby.

    I dont know if you pvp so I won't make any assumptions, but I have over 5,000 hours across 7 different classes IN pvp, never playing in a group larger than 6 and the majority of the time playing solo. I've had a good amount of time to weight the pros and cons of different snare immunities, and the above remarks are my conclusions.

    But once again, neither mist nor forward is limited to mag or stam. The only immunity limited to mag or stam is shuffle being limited to stam, and shuffle is inferior to forward/mist. So I'd say if anything, you're incorrect about "stam having exclusive access to the strongest snare immunities".

    This is the guy who says that PC is superior to console and we don’t know what we are talking about because we aren’t on PTS and is screaming the end of the world for magblade. He tried this belittling angle to me as well in another thread regarding BG MMR because I told him heavy armor magblade is very viable and will be even better next patch. Lol

    You following me from thread to thread now?

    All I did was point out that your argument was seriously flawed. “Damage done” means absolutely nothing in BGs and if you still can’t understand that, you will never improve.

    And for the record, I wasn’t patronising the above poster. Idk what random forum posters spend their time in ESO doing. I do find it hard to not patronise you though, in the same way it’s hard not to patronise toddlers. I suppose it’s not patronising, you’re just speaking at their intellectual capacity.

    Your go-to response to any constructive conversation is to belittle and try to make a snarky comment that “your MMR must be low” or “I assume you don’t pvp much” for anything that goes against your perspective. This post, much like your magblade pity party post is one in the same. I told you that heavy armor or defensive sets can help your survivability and I immediately must be a bad player. What if I told you I also have a 2H magblade build for..FORWARD MOMENTUM?! Is this a radical solution to this entire thread. Also, you can run escapist poisons, they work wonders.

    2h builds can work.

    Heavy builds can work in CP Cyro because 1vX is about sustaining and capitalising on mistakes.

    Heavy Magblade builds are terrible in BGs because you compromise way too much burst by taking heavy and other mag classes have better steady pressure so are better choices for heavy builds.

    An equally skilled heavy MagDK or Magplar will out-perform a heavy Magblade 100% of the time in BGs.

    You might be proud of your build that you do OK on in a middling MMR but that doesn’t change the facts.

    I have to disagree here man. With my setup the survivability is great, the sets are IMO a perfect combo for burst and I still run with ~1800+ recovery with a potion.

    I don't hold back sharing with the community:

    Destro/Resto
    5 Torugs (Heavy)
    5 Caluurions (Infused Inferno Staff)
    *Use Force Pulse instead of Swallow Soul (OP for this setup)
    2 Troll King

    Resto can be vMA, Willpower, or Black Rose.

    I have ran this exact build in LA also and it's deadlier but with the changes to Healing Ward and Dampen (haven't tested yet), I just don't have faith in LA as much on a MagBlade.

    I will likely still test it with LA but for the time being I'm comfortable in HA.

    Good of you to post your build but I'm seriously skeptical about the damage that setup can doing outside of Caluurion Procs and with Caluu having a long CD it means you don't have control of your burst which is bad for BGs.

    I have much of that gear though so I might just test it out to be sure. Are you running something like Ele drain to make up for lost damage through major breach application?

    Final q: how do you reconcile the lost healing from Swallow Soul? The lack of on-demand healing is one of the Magblade's biggest weaknesses now that Healing wards loses it's up-front heal.
  • Tonturri
    Tonturri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.

    See, on my mag class(es), I run mist in group and drop vamp solo. You dont feel the loss of mobility as much if you position yourself near proper LoS as any experienced solo player should. Sure, snares destroy any non nightblade magicka class if they get caught out, but that's sort of something you need to adjust for.

    In small scale (6 or smaller) you need mist because the size of the groups you're pulling and the distance you're pulling them means theres a lot more time for you to get snared - and you're frequently engaging without a LoS immediately nearby.

    I dont know if you pvp so I won't make any assumptions, but I have over 5,000 hours across 7 different classes IN pvp, never playing in a group larger than 6 and the majority of the time playing solo. I've had a good amount of time to weight the pros and cons of different snare immunities, and the above remarks are my conclusions.

    But once again, neither mist nor forward is limited to mag or stam. The only immunity limited to mag or stam is shuffle being limited to stam, and shuffle is inferior to forward/mist. So I'd say if anything, you're incorrect about "stam having exclusive access to the strongest snare immunities".

    This is the guy who says that PC is superior to console and we don’t know what we are talking about because we aren’t on PTS and is screaming the end of the world for magblade. He tried this belittling angle to me as well in another thread regarding BG MMR because I told him heavy armor magblade is very viable and will be even better next patch. Lol

    You following me from thread to thread now?

    All I did was point out that your argument was seriously flawed. “Damage done” means absolutely nothing in BGs and if you still can’t understand that, you will never improve.

    And for the record, I wasn’t patronising the above poster. Idk what random forum posters spend their time in ESO doing. I do find it hard to not patronise you though, in the same way it’s hard not to patronise toddlers. I suppose it’s not patronising, you’re just speaking at their intellectual capacity.

    Your go-to response to any constructive conversation is to belittle and try to make a snarky comment that “your MMR must be low” or “I assume you don’t pvp much” for anything that goes against your perspective. This post, much like your magblade pity party post is one in the same. I told you that heavy armor or defensive sets can help your survivability and I immediately must be a bad player. What if I told you I also have a 2H magblade build for..FORWARD MOMENTUM?! Is this a radical solution to this entire thread. Also, you can run escapist poisons, they work wonders.

    2h builds can work.

    Heavy builds can work in CP Cyro because 1vX is about sustaining and capitalising on mistakes.

    Heavy Magblade builds are terrible in BGs because you compromise way too much burst by taking heavy and other mag classes have better steady pressure so are better choices for heavy builds.

    An equally skilled heavy MagDK or Magplar will out-perform a heavy Magblade 100% of the time in BGs.

    You might be proud of your build that you do OK on in a middling MMR but that doesn’t change the facts.

    I have to disagree here man. With my setup the survivability is great, the sets are IMO a perfect combo for burst and I still run with ~1800+ recovery with a potion.

    I don't hold back sharing with the community:

    Destro/Resto
    5 Torugs (Heavy)
    5 Caluurions (Infused Inferno Staff)
    *Use Force Pulse instead of Swallow Soul (OP for this setup)
    2 Troll King

    Resto can be vMA, Willpower, or Black Rose.

    I have ran this exact build in LA also and it's deadlier but with the changes to Healing Ward and Dampen (haven't tested yet), I just don't have faith in LA as much on a MagBlade.

    I will likely still test it with LA but for the time being I'm comfortable in HA.

    Good of you to post your build but I'm seriously skeptical about the damage that setup can doing outside of Caluurion Procs and with Caluu having a long CD it means you don't have control of your burst which is bad for BGs.

    I have much of that gear though so I might just test it out to be sure. Are you running something like Ele drain to make up for lost damage through major breach application?

    Final q: how do you reconcile the lost healing from Swallow Soul? The lack of on-demand healing is one of the Magblade's biggest weaknesses now that Healing wards loses it's up-front heal.

    Having messed around with Cal lately...I think you're underestimating the set a little. It's not too hard to count to 10, especially since the set gives you a really nice visual on your character whenever it procs. And a heavy armor NB setup can likely afford to stay defensive for a bit longer to wait for that proc so they can turn around and global someone.

    Still, I'm a bit wary of the set on a ranged(ish?) character? I thought the set had a travel time + needed to be aimed, so I've been using it on a melee magicka gankblade...but lately I've seen the proc sail in a graceful arc halfway across the bg map, so maybe I've been thinking totally wrong. Still, if it doesn't have to be aimed and just has the rather lengthy travel time (it looks kinda like templar's Dark Flare in that regard), then it's pretty solid.

    Also, TK likely makes up for the healing. I just peeked onto UESP and adding TK to my heavy armor setup (admittedly Khajiit) shot me to 3100 health regen - 1500/sec is more than Swallow gives (IIRC it gives similar or lower number, but every 2 sec. So 1500 every 2 sec vs 3k every 2 sec?). It's definitely nothing to sneeze at. Khajiit passive brings it up to 4k.

    And of course, NB has that 15% boost to all regens. Run Clockwork Citrus Filet and you're at 3600 ish health regen.

    Also, Torug + infused will make the damage enchant line up relatively well with the caluurion proc. If you opponent is melee, the proc doesn't have very far to travel so it's easy to line up with a CC. If your opponent is ranged, well, they're not likely to try and dodge it, so you're set there as well.
    Edited by Tonturri on October 20, 2018 7:09PM
  • lucky_dutch
    lucky_dutch
    ✭✭✭✭
    Tonturri wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    Idk if you PvP much so I won't make any assumptions - Vampire is terrible in PvP. It's maybe justifiable for some mag classes when trying to solo roam because they're so lacking in mobility (and they usually run heavy to balance it's major weaknesses) but in group or BGs it's terrible.

    You walk into a BG as light armor vampire and any Stam class is going to global you.

    See, on my mag class(es), I run mist in group and drop vamp solo. You dont feel the loss of mobility as much if you position yourself near proper LoS as any experienced solo player should. Sure, snares destroy any non nightblade magicka class if they get caught out, but that's sort of something you need to adjust for.

    In small scale (6 or smaller) you need mist because the size of the groups you're pulling and the distance you're pulling them means theres a lot more time for you to get snared - and you're frequently engaging without a LoS immediately nearby.

    I dont know if you pvp so I won't make any assumptions, but I have over 5,000 hours across 7 different classes IN pvp, never playing in a group larger than 6 and the majority of the time playing solo. I've had a good amount of time to weight the pros and cons of different snare immunities, and the above remarks are my conclusions.

    But once again, neither mist nor forward is limited to mag or stam. The only immunity limited to mag or stam is shuffle being limited to stam, and shuffle is inferior to forward/mist. So I'd say if anything, you're incorrect about "stam having exclusive access to the strongest snare immunities".

    This is the guy who says that PC is superior to console and we don’t know what we are talking about because we aren’t on PTS and is screaming the end of the world for magblade. He tried this belittling angle to me as well in another thread regarding BG MMR because I told him heavy armor magblade is very viable and will be even better next patch. Lol

    You following me from thread to thread now?

    All I did was point out that your argument was seriously flawed. “Damage done” means absolutely nothing in BGs and if you still can’t understand that, you will never improve.

    And for the record, I wasn’t patronising the above poster. Idk what random forum posters spend their time in ESO doing. I do find it hard to not patronise you though, in the same way it’s hard not to patronise toddlers. I suppose it’s not patronising, you’re just speaking at their intellectual capacity.

    Your go-to response to any constructive conversation is to belittle and try to make a snarky comment that “your MMR must be low” or “I assume you don’t pvp much” for anything that goes against your perspective. This post, much like your magblade pity party post is one in the same. I told you that heavy armor or defensive sets can help your survivability and I immediately must be a bad player. What if I told you I also have a 2H magblade build for..FORWARD MOMENTUM?! Is this a radical solution to this entire thread. Also, you can run escapist poisons, they work wonders.

    2h builds can work.

    Heavy builds can work in CP Cyro because 1vX is about sustaining and capitalising on mistakes.

    Heavy Magblade builds are terrible in BGs because you compromise way too much burst by taking heavy and other mag classes have better steady pressure so are better choices for heavy builds.

    An equally skilled heavy MagDK or Magplar will out-perform a heavy Magblade 100% of the time in BGs.

    You might be proud of your build that you do OK on in a middling MMR but that doesn’t change the facts.

    I have to disagree here man. With my setup the survivability is great, the sets are IMO a perfect combo for burst and I still run with ~1800+ recovery with a potion.

    I don't hold back sharing with the community:

    Destro/Resto
    5 Torugs (Heavy)
    5 Caluurions (Infused Inferno Staff)
    *Use Force Pulse instead of Swallow Soul (OP for this setup)
    2 Troll King

    Resto can be vMA, Willpower, or Black Rose.

    I have ran this exact build in LA also and it's deadlier but with the changes to Healing Ward and Dampen (haven't tested yet), I just don't have faith in LA as much on a MagBlade.

    I will likely still test it with LA but for the time being I'm comfortable in HA.

    Good of you to post your build but I'm seriously skeptical about the damage that setup can doing outside of Caluurion Procs and with Caluu having a long CD it means you don't have control of your burst which is bad for BGs.

    I have much of that gear though so I might just test it out to be sure. Are you running something like Ele drain to make up for lost damage through major breach application?

    Final q: how do you reconcile the lost healing from Swallow Soul? The lack of on-demand healing is one of the Magblade's biggest weaknesses now that Healing wards loses it's up-front heal.

    Having messed around with Cal lately...I think you're underestimating the set a little. It's not too hard to count to 10, especially since the set gives you a really nice visual on your character whenever it procs. And a heavy armor NB setup can likely afford to stay defensive for a bit longer to wait for that proc so they can turn around and global someone.

    Still, I'm a bit wary of the set on a ranged(ish?) character? I thought the set had a travel time + needed to be aimed, so I've been using it on a melee magicka gankblade...but lately I've seen the proc sail in a graceful arc halfway across the bg map, so maybe I've been thinking totally wrong. Still, if it doesn't have to be aimed and just has the rather lengthy travel time (it looks kinda like templar's Dark Flare in that regard), then it's pretty solid.

    Also, TK likely makes up for the healing. I just peeked onto UESP and adding TK to my heavy armor setup (admittedly Khajiit) shot me to 3100 health regen - 1500/sec is more than Swallow gives (IIRC it gives similar or lower number, but every 2 sec. So 1500 every 2 sec vs 3k every 2 sec?). It's definitely nothing to sneeze at. Khajiit passive brings it up to 4k.

    And of course, NB has that 15% boost to all regens. Run Clockwork Citrus Filet and you're at 3600 ish health regen.

    Also, Torug + infused will make the damage enchant line up relatively well with the caluurion proc. If you opponent is melee, the proc doesn't have very far to travel so it's easy to line up with a CC. If your opponent is ranged, well, they're not likely to try and dodge it, so you're set there as well.

    Good post. Definately some food for thought here.

    Light armor still needs a way to shift snares though ;)
  • arkansas_ESO
    arkansas_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I mean, they've certainly both got their ups and downs. Vampires also get undeath and increased base regen, plus being a vampire doesn't require you to sacrifice one of your weapon choices meaning that using mist vs forward momentum provides you with far more versatility as far as weapon choices/setups go. You sacrifice a burst heal by way of rally to run forward as well.

    The simple fact is though; forward doesn't have a "distinct advantage" over mist, they each have pros and cons. Also, neither skill is exclusive to mag or stam, so to say ONLY stam has access to a good snare immunity is just outright false.

    How about we look at the fact that shuffle is an inferior snare immunity when compared to both forward AND mist, despite requiring 5 pieces of medium armor to be worn and being the armor skill of the designated "mobility" armor weight?

    You're being silly and trying to move the goal posts: 2H offers some of the best passives in the game and there's basically opportunity cost for slotting it. In addition, just because a magicka build can slot a 2H doesn't mean it's feasible: you bring up having to give up a burst heal for FM, but backbarring a 2H is outright unfeasible on classes that don't have a class burst heal, and frontbarring it means giving up a lot of damage from light attacks. It's a stamina skill for stamina builds that occasionally magicka builds use because it's just that good.

    (also Undeath doesn't outweigh the risk of getting burst by a Dawnbreaker, nor does an extra ~100 regen)

    Anyways, make the morph of Ele Drain that nobody uses a magic version of FM: a self buff that grants Major Sorcery for 25 seconds and 4 seconds of snare immunity. Would finally give Ele Drain a competitive morph to rival it and I can stop only playing stam builds to avoid getting aggressively snared to death.
    Edited by arkansas_ESO on October 20, 2018 9:41PM


    Grand Overlord 25/8/17
  • Hydra9268
    Hydra9268
    ✭✭
    Even if it’s just via potions or something. It’s absolutely crazy that Light Armor users only way to shift out of snares is to go vampire which has enormous (over-the-top, imo) downsides in PvP.

    It’s even more crazy considering that stam not only have the only access to snare breaks but also by far the strongest snares.

    Needs fixing ASAP!

    Holy Christ. You're bitching about skills that you feel are not in your favor. You're not actually beta testing the game for bugs.

    I don't know how the devs put up with this stuff. Most of the stuff I see on these forums is people complaining about PVP skills that are not actual bugs.
    Edited by Hydra9268 on October 20, 2018 10:08PM
  • lucky_dutch
    lucky_dutch
    ✭✭✭✭
    [
    Anyways, make the morph of Ele Drain that nobody uses a magic version of FM: a self buff that grants Major Sorcery for 25 seconds and 4 seconds of snare immunity. Would finally give Ele Drain a competitive morph to rival it and I can stop only playing stam builds to avoid getting aggressively snared to death.

    YES PLEASE!

    Although it wouldn’t hurt to bring vampire back into PvP viability by tuning down the negative passives. They did a great job with wolfhunter making WW viable and interesting to play in PvP, it would be nice to see another skill line get some mileage too.

  • Hydra9268
    Hydra9268
    ✭✭
    Does anybody know to beta test a game? All of you are demanding skill changes. That's not beta testing. A beta test is more than a selfish review of your class in PVP. Besides, do you think the devs are going to implement potentially game-break skill adjustments this close to release? Not going to happen. So don't ask for them. Focus on beta testing the DLC content. Help ensure the DLC content is in tip-top shape.
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