I would like Maelstrom weapons to be separated into a regular and Perfected version

Mister_DMC

One point you touched on Kyle was that non stormproof need not apply to vet trials. I remember when that was case...

I would go so far to say that it basically it's a requirement for the dlc vet trials. If you can't beat VMA you're probably going to be a detriment to the group in vmol, vhof ,vas or Vcr. If you complete then that just means that the other players had to compensate all the more.

Danksta

An_An wrote: »

Wiping three times on the vMA ice stage has become the norm for my weekends. I’m an average PvE / PvP player and it frustrates me how difficult vMA is. I have never made it past the ice stage and I don’t think I will.

But that’s okay, because I’m not a professional gamer and don’t need to be the best of the best.

That being said, I’d love to improve my game and actively look for builds/gear that could help improve my overall game experience.

If you are Stormproof or a Flawless Conqueror, I salute you and remind you that the average person also wishes to complete end game content (maybe I don’t care about being on leaderboards but I do want to complete it). I would also like to remind everyone that the majority of players on the forums are top tier players and do not represent the average player. And it is not fun when one keeps dying just because one hasn’t memorized the mechanics. If I wanted to spend time getting stressed trying to memorize something, I’d rather do that at work where I get paid for it.

In short, trying to complete vMA makes me hate ESO. Please let me enjoy the game and experiment with gear that is currently beyond my reach. I’d be happy if nMA drops weapons which are 3 times weaker than vMA.

If you die 3 times then give up you're probably right, you'll probably never beat it. I died an insane amount of times on most stages before finally getting my first clear.

I don't really care if they made non-perfected versions of the weapons, keeping the current ones as the perfected versions. It should definitely not be the other way around as many have suggested in this thread, power creep is already ridiculous.

DeadlyRecluse

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

But I don't understand. If the other dungeons offer a normal and Perfected version, why not the same for Maelstrom weapons

Except...they don't.

There's no imperfect Master's weapons, for instance. The perfect/imperfect system came out after DSA and Maelstrom.

That being said, I'd love for them to add imperfect Maelstrom and Master's weapons, preferably by buffing the "perfect" versions to include 1piece stat bonuses and moving the old versions to "imperfect" status.

SickDuck

Qbiken wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

You are making up numbers.

I'm using the only numbers I have access to which are from ESO DB achievement reports. Not perfect but most likely within a reasonable order of magnitude.

https://eso-database.com/en/character/storm-s-daughter/14209373/achievements/orsinium/41/

Maelstrom Arena Champion
Conquer all challengers and earn the title of Maelstrom Arena Champion.
Nov 28, 2016 6:51 PM
10.33% of all Players have achieved this.

Maelstrom Arena Conqueror
Conquer all challengers in Veteran Maelstrom Arena.
Apr 30, 2018 8:39 PM
4.77% of all Players have achieved this.

Maelstrom Arena: Perfect Run
Complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena without dying, and without continuing from a saved quest.
1.25% of all Players have achieved this.

You know those numbers include the people who only played ESO during free weekend trials as well right?

Those numbers only include people who got to the trouble of installing the ESO DB addon. Which rules out loads of casuals even on PC. The real percentages should be way, way, way lower because of this. Would be interested in the official stats from ZOS.

John_Falstaff

@Maryal , no, I think I understood you right, and even replied to that point. In fact, you've just said it yourself - you complained that game is full of lackluster players because powerful gear is too easily available. And now you suggest to give them another piece of easily available gear by offering nMA weapons. Isn't it a contradiction? The point of my response was, running nMA won't make those newbie players much better, it won't give them the taste for achieving more. nMA is hardly challenging for anybody. They will clear it and they will stay bad players, except now they will also be disappointed because the reward they got didn't give them advantage they hoped it would. If anything, it may take away their incentive to get better. 2k extra damage is only exciting when you have 40-50k and want to push the edge a bit further, but for someone with 10k and yearning for first clears, expectations will be so high they'll be sorely disappointed, that's all. They'll remain bad players, just with another set of easily available good gear on them.

Maryal

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Maryal , no, I think I understood you right, and even replied to that point. In fact, you've just said it yourself - you complained that game is full of lackluster players because powerful gear is too easily available. And now you suggest to give them another piece of easily available gear by offering nMA weapons. Isn't it a contradiction? The point of my response was, running nMA won't make those newbie players much better, it won't give them the taste for achieving more. nMA is hardly challenging for anybody. They will clear it and they will stay bad players, except now they will also be disappointed because the reward they got didn't give them advantage they hoped it would. If anything, it may take away their incentive to get better. 2k extra damage is only exciting when you have 40-50k and want to push the edge a bit further, but for someone with 10k and yearning for first clears, expectations will be so high they'll be sorely disappointed, that's all. They'll remain bad players, just with another set of easily available good gear on them.

You are gauging the difficulty of nMA based on your personal experience. There are many under-experienced players who have not cleared nMA because, for them, it's too difficult and the current reward for nMA doesn't justify the frustration and time expendature. Difficulty is a matter of degree based on the player's individual ability/experience.

Incentivizing nMA per my suggestion won't turn an under-experienced player into a 'highly experienced' one. What it will do, however, is give them a decent foundation from which they can draw on and build upon.

I do get what you are saying. Right now there is no way of knowing if the suggested change would or would not have a long-term beneficial effect on the game. What I do know is that continuing on the path this game has been on for the last few years certainly isn't helping the situation and is only making the problem worse.

code65536

MaleAmazon wrote: »

I don´t oppose people getting imperfect gear, but I would weep inside since the *only* difficult solo content in the game would have gotten dumbed down. Really, we don´t need *less* solo challenges.

@MaleAmazon This makes no sense. How is rewarding a lesser weapon "dumbing down" the content? Nobody's asking vMA to be nerfed. The BiS perfected gear would still exclusive to vMA. The incentives to beat vMA--the title, polymorph, sense of accomplishment, and yes, the BiS perfected gear--are all still there. The only change is giving people a lesser version of the gear on a lower difficulty in a way that is consistent with all other content.

Bevik wrote: »

Why would you give anything to nMA finishers? It is so easy

@Bevik You can say the same about any normal content in this game. St. Olms' swipe that will kill any tank who fail to block it can't even kill a light armor DD who isn't blocking. Most of the one-shot mechanics that absolutely must be followed precisely in vet Cloudrest can't kill people and some can even be blithely ignored in normal. The werewolf adds on Vykosa HM will hit a DD for 60-80K--you can't even survive it with shielding and blocking, but on normal, you will barely even notice that you took a hit.

You, like so many other people in this thread, have this silly notion that somehow gear is the appropriate reward for difficult content. Have you been playing ESO? Have you noticed how that isn't how things work with any other piece of content? Yes, there are rewards for difficult content. But it's not gear. It's the skins, titles, and prestige of leaderboard scores. And even under this proposal, gear is still a reward, because if someone wants the absolute best, they will still need to do vet in order to get the perfected version.

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

There's no imperfect Master's weapons, for instance. The perfect/imperfect system came out after DSA and Maelstrom.

@DeadlyRecluse Back when DSA was added to the game, vet rewarded VR14 Master weapons (the max level at the time), and normal rewarded VR13 Master weapons. The stat difference between VR13 and VR14 was minimal.

In fact, I still have my very first Master weapon that I've kept around as a souvenir--a VR13 resto staff from nDSA. Here it is, pictured beside the VR14 resto that I later got from vDSA:


Just 24 less spell damage and 6 less stamina from the proc. That's all the penalty that you got for getting the normal version instead of the vet verison. The imperfect/perfect system didn't technically exist back then, but this is effectively the same thing.

Girl_Number8

Maelstrom is sooooo old, Idc, sure let them have the vma weapons on normal. It really doesn't matter in the game in anyway. Zos, just really cares about what is new and not their player base that has been around since Orsinium was introduced.

Though maybe if they made it for four players to do as a group, giving each player a tradable weapon for the players in the group, people would do it a lot more. But they won't do that because they know that most of us have done hundreds of runs without ever having that token system, lol.

I think though that would breathe some new life into it, if they did it for the new player base.

DeadlyRecluse

code65536 wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

There's no imperfect Master's weapons, for instance. The perfect/imperfect system came out after DSA and Maelstrom.

DeadlyRecluse Back when DSA was added to the game, vet rewarded VR14 Master weapons (the max level at the time), and normal rewarded VR13 Master weapons. The stat difference between VR13 and VR14 was minimal.

In fact, I still have my very first Master weapon that I've kept around as a souvenir--a VR13 resto staff from nDSA. Here it is, pictured beside the VR14 resto that I later got from vDSA:


Just 24 less spell damage and 6 less stamina from the proc. That's all the penalty that you got for getting the normal version instead of the vet verison. The imperfect/perfect system didn't technically exist back then, but this is effectively the same thing.

Yes, I'm aware--it's similar but not really the same as the perfect/imperfect system. Adding that system to DSA/MA makes sense, imo.

MaleAmazon

. How is rewarding a lesser weapon "dumbing down" the content? Nobody's asking vMA to be nerfed. The BiS perfected gear would still exclusive to vMA. The incentives to beat vMA--the title, polymorph, sense of accomplishment, and yes, the BiS perfected gear--are all still there. The only change is giving people a lesser version of the gear on a lower difficulty in a way that is consistent with all other content.

IMO it is dumbing down the content, since at the moment there is that brick wall of difficulty, behind which are the weapons. Ok, you might not want them there, but they are there and they are hard to get.

Which is of course the whole reason for this thread - people want their cookie but they don´t want to work for it.

This is a trajectory in ESO ("no challenge, exit through crown store please") and I dont like it.

vMA is very difficult content, yes, but there are excellent guides that help a lot; and vMA is the one place in ESO where you need self heal, DPS, and above all environmental awareness and knowledge of enemies and mechanics. It shows what ESO combat can be when ZOS dont deliberately put you into 'very easy' mode like they have with the power creep + static monster stats.

I mean I think it is a good idea to have normal and perfected weapons for the new trials, and like I said I would be fine with it in Maelstrom arena. It just sucks a bit as well; since this is clearly an example of 'I want the reward but this is a computer game and I paid for it so just give it to me I don´t want to have to work for it'.

There is also IMO a difference between vMA and veteran 12-man trials since those are hard to even get into. vMA is completely up to you. And many people aren´t up to it. Which kind of does make me ask: then why do you want the weapons? If you are casual enough that you don´t even want to try to actually complete vMA, why do you want the weapons for?

code65536

MaleAmazon wrote: »

. How is rewarding a lesser weapon "dumbing down" the content? Nobody's asking vMA to be nerfed. The BiS perfected gear would still exclusive to vMA. The incentives to beat vMA--the title, polymorph, sense of accomplishment, and yes, the BiS perfected gear--are all still there. The only change is giving people a lesser version of the gear on a lower difficulty in a way that is consistent with all other content.

IMO it is dumbing down the content, since at the moment there is that brick wall of difficulty, behind which are the weapons. Ok, you might not want them there, but they are there and they are hard to get.

Which is of course the whole reason for this thread - people want their cookie but they don´t want to work for it.

This is a trajectory in ESO ("no challenge, exit through crown store please") and I dont like it.

vMA is very difficult content, yes, but there are excellent guides that help a lot; and vMA is the one place in ESO where you need self heal, DPS, and above all environmental awareness and knowledge of enemies and mechanics. It shows what ESO combat can be when ZOS dont deliberately put you into 'very easy' mode like they have with the power creep + static monster stats.

I mean I think it is a good idea to have normal and perfected weapons for the new trials, and like I said I would be fine with it in Maelstrom arena. It just sucks a bit as well; since this is clearly an example of 'I want the reward but this is a computer game and I paid for it so just give it to me I don´t want to have to work for it'.

There is also IMO a difference between vMA and veteran 12-man trials since those are hard to even get into. vMA is completely up to you. And many people aren´t up to it. Which kind of does make me ask: then why do you want the weapons? If you are casual enough that you don´t even want to try to actually complete vMA, why do you want the weapons for?

I feel like a broken record at this point. There are already rewards for difficult content: skins, titles, etc. When vMoL came out, we spent months progressing through it. Why? If all we cared about was the gear, that was available in normal. Maybe, just maybe, there are reasons for running the content beyond the gear, hmm? If you're running vMA just to get the gear, you're running it for all the wrong reasons.

GreenHere

I think there is a meaningful difference between getting imperfect & perfect rewards in group trials, versus getting something or nothing in a solo trial. Namely, the group.

In Maelstrom, it's all you, baby. Either you got the stuff to get the stuff, or not. I personally like this philosophy. It challenged me to become a better player, back when I thought 15k dps was a lot (*shudders*). If you want Maelstrom rewards, you gotta earn it, and that means buckling down and doing well. By yourself. If you beat vMA, you damn well earned that Training Ice Staff (lol). Or whatever Maelstrom weapon you get.

In group trials, you can be doing GREAT, freaking world class omg-how-on-Nirn-did-they-do-that?! good, and a crap team can still drag the experience down. Or completely stall it. There's no particular way to judge an individual's performance in such a group setting; either the group succeeds or it doesn't. Because of that alone, I think the imperfect rewards make sense. If you were able to complete the trial with 11 other monkeys, well then here ya go; here's the almost-as-good version of what you'd get if you did this on veteran.

Seems fairer to me, since a great many people simply will never be able to rise to veteran Trials. I don't think veteran Maelstrom is as unobtainable as veteran trails for those people, since Maelstrom is pretty well conquered now. There's a LOT of good info on it, way less variables, and no one telling you you can't try. Group trials are full of those obstacles (again, for the people who struggle to complete/enter vet content).

All that said, I'm kind of on the side of "who cares, let them have imperfect Maelstrom weapons", since as other point out they won't fix a bad dps' problems like many seem to think they would. If anything, it might inspire them to look elsewhere as to how they can improve; and now we're getting somewhere! I don't see how more people with Maelstrom gear hurts anything or anyone -- especially if they're getting less powerful gear than what already exists. Imperfect should be slightly less powerful than the current vMA weapons, imo.

kylewwefan

That must be a newer picture of old gear. The set bonus used to be an enchantment. Remember. You could enchant over your good stuff by accident. Hehe.

Also, I think it was maybe a little before homestead, normal dungeons used to give 150cp stuff and only vet had 160cp. I kind of doubt they would go back to that.

It took them forever to update VDSA from 140 to 160.

Remember WGT and ICP had “Lost Hatchet” before they dropped weapons of the sets in there. I don’t remember if all dungeons were like that or not.

Maybe some time before that, Agility and Willpower jewelry used to sell for 200k gold. They never replaced that stuff. Just kind of left it in the dust.

code65536 wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

I don´t oppose people getting imperfect gear, but I would weep inside since the *only* difficult solo content in the game would have gotten dumbed down. Really, we don´t need *less* solo challenges.

@MaleAmazon This makes no sense. How is rewarding a lesser weapon "dumbing down" the content? Nobody's asking vMA to be nerfed. The BiS perfected gear would still exclusive to vMA. The incentives to beat vMA--the title, polymorph, sense of accomplishment, and yes, the BiS perfected gear--are all still there. The only change is giving people a lesser version of the gear on a lower difficulty in a way that is consistent with all other content.

Bevik wrote: »

Why would you give anything to nMA finishers? It is so easy

@Bevik You can say the same about any normal content in this game. St. Olms' swipe that will kill any tank who fail to block it can't even kill a light armor DD who isn't blocking. Most of the one-shot mechanics that absolutely must be followed precisely in vet Cloudrest can't kill people and some can even be blithely ignored in normal. The werewolf adds on Vykosa HM will hit a DD for 60-80K--you can't even survive it with shielding and blocking, but on normal, you will barely even notice that you took a hit.

You, like so many other people in this thread, have this silly notion that somehow gear is the appropriate reward for difficult content. Have you been playing ESO? Have you noticed how that isn't how things work with any other piece of content? Yes, there are rewards for difficult content. But it's not gear. It's the skins, titles, and prestige of leaderboard scores. And even under this proposal, gear is still a reward, because if someone wants the absolute best, they will still need to do vet in order to get the perfected version.

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

There's no imperfect Master's weapons, for instance. The perfect/imperfect system came out after DSA and Maelstrom.

@DeadlyRecluse Back when DSA was added to the game, vet rewarded VR14 Master weapons (the max level at the time), and normal rewarded VR13 Master weapons. The stat difference between VR13 and VR14 was minimal.

In fact, I still have my very first Master weapon that I've kept around as a souvenir--a VR13 resto staff from nDSA. Here it is, pictured beside the VR14 resto that I later got from vDSA:


Just 24 less spell damage and 6 less stamina from the proc. That's all the penalty that you got for getting the normal version instead of the vet verison. The imperfect/perfect system didn't technically exist back then, but this is effectively the same thing.

MaleAmazon

I feel like a broken record at this point. There are already rewards for difficult content: skins, titles, etc. When vMoL came out, we spent months progressing through it. Why? If all we cared about was the gear, that was available in normal. Maybe, just maybe, there are reasons for running the content beyond the gear, hmm? If you're running vMA just to get the gear, you're running it for all the wrong reasons.

Maybe not everyone is you. I couldnt care less about skins, and whatevertitles. I dont put stormproof over my character´s head even after 10 clears. And it wasn´t the weapons I wanted (though they were icing on the cake as they allow completely different attack combos with cruel flurry for example). I wanted to beat that Voriak Solkyn ***. It was a week long project.

And I don´t care if other players get subpar vMA loot as a bloody login reward for that matter.

The point is that ESO goes more and more towards easy rewards it seems. You get massive XP scrolls and tri-stat food just for entering your own login name correctly . Doshia and other bosses used to be able to hurt you, so you gave a second thought about your gear. Nowadays my werewolf solos IC bosses regularly. And it isnt just because I became so damn good... now we get murkmire and it seems again you need 0 thought into your play, just cut through everything and getmethatrewardpleasenow. People complain that they have to heal themselves in vMA ffs!!!

I simply do not like this design 'decision'.

But you are correct in that if you 'only run vMA for the gear' you do it for the wrong reasons. So let me say this - if you only want vMA gear without earning it, you are playing for all the wrong reasons.

arasysb14_ESO

You are gauging the difficulty of nMA based on your personal experience. There are many under-experienced players who have not cleared nMA because, for them, it's too difficult and the current reward for nMA doesn't justify the frustration and time expendature. Difficulty is a matter of degree based on the player's individual ability/experience.

Incentivizing nMA per my suggestion won't turn an under-experienced player into a 'highly experienced' one. What it will do, however, is give them a decent foundation from which they can draw on and build upon.

There are tons of ways a casual can get decent gear right now for both stamina and magicka builds. Normal maelstrom is nowhere near the veteran version, and people have literally spent lots of time getting their weapons. Offering Perfected ~ non-perfected versions, or selling VMA weapon skins on crown store would make the game more shallow.

ZOS could of course tune down DLC dungeons' difficulty for casuals and stop nerfing classes, but giving away best weapons in a game almost every overland creature dies in 2 attacks would make things worse.

boombazookajd

Royaji wrote: »

Stewart1874 wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

Think that myself when I read that reply. There seems to be an insurmountable difficulty wall that is in this game for harder content, Maelstrom being one and also the more recent dungeons like Fang Lair. You shouldn't need to live and breath ESO to be able to get that content. Folk have lives - work, relationships, other activities to try and balance. Just because less than 5% of the player base (if that) have so much free time shouldn't mean that the remaining 95% are left frustrated. I have no problem with disgustingly hard content if the rewards are just achievements but when cosmetics are being stuck behind that difficulty wall it really pisses me off.

Anyway, that circa 5% of players need to realise they aren't the majority and content needs to be better designed to be accessible by all players with harder content being playable by a more sizeable percentage than just around 5.

All content is very accessible in ESO. It's called normal mode for a reason. And guess why the other one is called veteran?

I have a job, school, and a relationship. Through all of that I still managed to complete vMA. It took me about a month of casually playing to beat it and since then I've cleared it twice, one of which got me on the leaderboards. I now have two lightning staves and two bow's. Still gunning for my fire staff.

The amount of entitlement is overwhelming. First off, earn your rewards. Folks who want imperfect weapons are probably the same who want to buy a skin run.

Get yourself into vMA, learn the mechanics. If you can't beat vMA, then you don't need a vMA weapon, it's that simple. The benefit that a vMA weapon would bring you would be wasted on you.

The imperfect weapons really aren't that useful anyway. imperfect Asylum destro staff applies the status effect on the third cast of fore pulse. That's useless in PvE because you aren't spamming force pulse that much.

Imperfect Weapons are utter trash and should have never been introduced into the game to begin with. They are a participation trophy at best.

SoLooney

An_An wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

Is that seriously your answer to not being able to beat vma? Is to make the weapons perfected and non perfected so anyone can get a cookie?

You obviously dont need the weapons. Facepalm

Umm thank you for telling me what I don’t need.
While you’re at it would you also like to tell me how to play my game ?

You obviously are a very good player so I’d request you to keep your privilege in check in the future.

I'm not the one crying and whining about not having vma weapons. You're obviously salty you cant beat the content and want the perfect and imperfect versions so you can beat normal and get a semi decent weapon

And what privilege? Its a video game. I'm not the one tripping over one. Get a reality check

JiKama

I completed VMA with 5 bonepirate/5 Briarheart/1 Kena/1 Selenes/ 3 Agility. I don't believe that to be an amazing setup, but it worked quite well for me Stamblade 2Handed Greatsword-Bow.

Abysswarrior45

normal weapons for veteran run, and vastly superior versions for a flawless veteran run. That I'd be okay with.

Danksta

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

normal weapons for veteran run, and vastly superior versions for a flawless veteran run. That I'd be okay with.

Why do they need to be vastly superior? Not enough power creep in the game for you? Besides, anyone that can beat vMA and knows the spawn locations can throw on some cheesy setup and grab all the sigils to get flawless.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

lokulin wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

lokulin wrote: »

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

You are making up numbers.

I'm using the only numbers I have access to which are from ESO DB achievement reports. Not perfect but most likely within a reasonable order of magnitude.

https://eso-database.com/en/character/storm-s-daughter/14209373/achievements/orsinium/41/

Maelstrom Arena Champion
Conquer all challengers and earn the title of Maelstrom Arena Champion.
Nov 28, 2016 6:51 PM
10.33% of all Players have achieved this.

Maelstrom Arena Conqueror
Conquer all challengers in Veteran Maelstrom Arena.
Apr 30, 2018 8:39 PM
4.77% of all Players have achieved this.

Maelstrom Arena: Perfect Run
Complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena without dying, and without continuing from a saved quest.
1.25% of all Players have achieved this.

The second post is saying that approximately 10% complete normal MA, 5% complete vMA, and 1.25% get flawless.

I'm making the assumption here that if you have completed vMA you have also completed nMA. 4.77% is roughly half of 10%. 1.25% is roughly one tenth of 10%.

The numbers are the same just restating in a slightly different way.

Gotcha, you're right. I read that wrong.

I would have thought that more than 10% had completed nMA.

No problems. I am guessing it is partially due to Orsinium being a DLC and partially due to less than 50% of players even reaching level 50.

Level 50 Hero
Reach Level 50.
Jul 28, 2016 11:52 PM
44.57% of all Players have achieved this.

Of course this is all from ESO DB which is self reported stats using the ESO DB addon so there is going to be all sorts of confounding variables and biases but I think it still helps to provide some context.

Some time its surprising
The psn keep tracks of the percentage of the comunities who manage to get a trophy
For nma we're at 1.6%
For vma we're at 0.5%

Fun fact
Dark soul 2 as a trophy call this is dark soul and its unlocked by being killed for the first time and only 94.8% of the playerbase got it

ol_BANK_lo

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm not gonna kill myself trying the VMA. It's quite pointless whatever I do. I'm not too much of an avid player.
But I don't understand. If the other dungeons offer a normal and Perfected version, why not the same for Maelstrom weapons ?
First acquire some normal ones, and then go and try beat the VMA. The only way I see to increase my damage is to give up on my tanking, and that makes me very fragile.
And even so, doesn't look like it's enough.

@ZOS_GinaBruno But really, why is Maelstrom different than the others ?

Is this an actual thread??? Old content...different from new content. Think first.

SteveCampsOut

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

You are gauging the difficulty of nMA based on your personal experience. There are many under-experienced players who have not cleared nMA because, for them, it's too difficult and the current reward for nMA doesn't justify the frustration and time expendature. Difficulty is a matter of degree based on the player's individual ability/experience.

Incentivizing nMA per my suggestion won't turn an under-experienced player into a 'highly experienced' one. What it will do, however, is give them a decent foundation from which they can draw on and build upon.

There are tons of ways a casual can get decent gear right now for both stamina and magicka builds. Normal maelstrom is nowhere near the veteran version, and people have literally spent lots of time getting their weapons. Offering Perfected ~ non-perfected versions, or selling VMA weapon skins on crown store would make the game more shallow.

ZOS could of course tune down DLC dungeons' difficulty for casuals and stop nerfing classes, but giving away best weapons in a game almost every overland creature dies in 2 attacks would make things worse.

Frankly When Tamriel One came out and every zone suddenly scaled to your level it really took the wind out of my sails regarding leveling. I Do think a Max CP Sorcerer should be able to snap their fingers and kill mudcrabs! I'm sorry if you think this is some sort of Sacrilege but I have spend over 4 years leveling multiple alts and It damn well should be a thing that I can safely breeze through any overland obstacle in the game at this point. I've put in the time and effort to earn these levels and champion point skills. They should mean something. This includes "Normal Mode" DLC dungeons. There should be no excuse for anyone over CP300 to wipe on any Normal Mode dungeon. EVER. The fact that it happens means the dev's have artificially increased the difficulties of these dungeons to levels they shouldn't be at.

ResTandRespeC

Agenericname wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

lokulin wrote: »

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

You are making up numbers.

I'm using the only numbers I have access to which are from ESO DB achievement reports. Not perfect but most likely within a reasonable order of magnitude.

https://eso-database.com/en/character/storm-s-daughter/14209373/achievements/orsinium/41/

Maelstrom Arena Champion
Conquer all challengers and earn the title of Maelstrom Arena Champion.
Nov 28, 2016 6:51 PM
10.33% of all Players have achieved this.

Maelstrom Arena Conqueror
Conquer all challengers in Veteran Maelstrom Arena.
Apr 30, 2018 8:39 PM
4.77% of all Players have achieved this.

Maelstrom Arena: Perfect Run
Complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena without dying, and without continuing from a saved quest.
1.25% of all Players have achieved this.

The second post is saying that approximately 10% complete normal MA, 5% complete vMA, and 1.25% get flawless.

I'm making the assumption here that if you have completed vMA you have also completed nMA. 4.77% is roughly half of 10%. 1.25% is roughly one tenth of 10%.

The numbers are the same just restating in a slightly different way.

Gotcha, you're right. I read that wrong.

I would have thought that more than 10% had completed nMA.

These numbers don't take into account things like bot accounts and people who quit as soon as they tried the game or have extra accounts for selling or making guild banks. Under 50% of the player base has even completed the 2nd main quest. Only 25% completed the last quest in the main story line which has no influence on difficulty.
What's more likely is that the people who care or benefit from imperfect variants are the minority a long with people who care about or benefit from the weapons at all. Only 4.5% completed nAS so putting imperfect weapons in the normal version obviously didn't push a ton of extra people to do the content. Same goes for nCR (just under 3% completed) and its all best in slot gear that drops there.


People just like to use statistics to there advantage which tbh is kind of the point of statistics. They can be read and influenced in a lot of different ways. Questing is by far the most popular thing in this game, so realistically the majority doesn't care about any of the woes related to arenas, dungeons or trials or any of the gear they drop.

Bevik

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

You are gauging the difficulty of nMA based on your personal experience. There are many under-experienced players who have not cleared nMA because, for them, it's too difficult and the current reward for nMA doesn't justify the frustration and time expendature. Difficulty is a matter of degree based on the player's individual ability/experience.

Incentivizing nMA per my suggestion won't turn an under-experienced player into a 'highly experienced' one. What it will do, however, is give them a decent foundation from which they can draw on and build upon.

There are tons of ways a casual can get decent gear right now for both stamina and magicka builds. Normal maelstrom is nowhere near the veteran version, and people have literally spent lots of time getting their weapons. Offering Perfected ~ non-perfected versions, or selling VMA weapon skins on crown store would make the game more shallow.

ZOS could of course tune down DLC dungeons' difficulty for casuals and stop nerfing classes, but giving away best weapons in a game almost every overland creature dies in 2 attacks would make things worse.

Frankly When Tamriel One came out and every zone suddenly scaled to your level it really took the wind out of my sails regarding leveling. I Do think a Max CP Sorcerer should be able to snap their fingers and kill mudcrabs! I'm sorry if you think this is some sort of Sacrilege but I have spend over 4 years leveling multiple alts and It damn well should be a thing that I can safely breeze through any overland obstacle in the game at this point. I've put in the time and effort to earn these levels and champion point skills. They should mean something. This includes "Normal Mode" DLC dungeons. There should be no excuse for anyone over CP300 to wipe on any Normal Mode dungeon. EVER. The fact that it happens means the dev's have artificially increased the difficulties of these dungeons to levels they shouldn't be at.

Players with no brain will always wipe no matter the CP or the content. Seen a max CP guy stuck in the 1st room of Wayrest 1. I mean, he/she didn't know where is the doorway down to Slimecraw. Spent some minutes there and then left the group. Joke. CP means nothing maybe a 1000+ CP shows something. I'm CP 850 and only playing since last April, have 9 toons, all geared and I have completed vMA like 15 times got 4x fire, 4x lightning and 4x bow and of course other vMA drops too. Never powerleveled CP only some chars to 50. Actually my tank was leveling in dungeons so I get good doing group dungeons. Experience over CP. Who doesn't take time finishing vMA doesn't need those weapons as said above.

LeagueTroll

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

I've never completed normal lol, went straight into Vet. What's funny is that this dungeon caters to so pvp players as you need damage and defence/heals. Anyhow, I think that the 5% beat Vet concept is a little rigged as that's 5% of all players that have ever played, including the ones who get to level 10 and quit.

pvp player who can't even clear vma are nothing but free food for mediocre player like me in cyro.

LeagueTroll

lokulin wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

lokulin wrote: »

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

You are making up numbers.

I'm using the only numbers I have access to which are from ESO DB achievement reports. Not perfect but most likely within a reasonable order of magnitude.

https://eso-database.com/en/character/storm-s-daughter/14209373/achievements/orsinium/41/

Maelstrom Arena Champion
Conquer all challengers and earn the title of Maelstrom Arena Champion.
Nov 28, 2016 6:51 PM
10.33% of all Players have achieved this.

Maelstrom Arena Conqueror
Conquer all challengers in Veteran Maelstrom Arena.
Apr 30, 2018 8:39 PM
4.77% of all Players have achieved this.

Maelstrom Arena: Perfect Run
Complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena without dying, and without continuing from a saved quest.
1.25% of all Players have achieved this.

The second post is saying that approximately 10% complete normal MA, 5% complete vMA, and 1.25% get flawless.

I'm making the assumption here that if you have completed vMA you have also completed nMA. 4.77% is roughly half of 10%. 1.25% is roughly one tenth of 10%.

The numbers are the same just restating in a slightly different way.

looks more like half the ppl commented on this thread has vma clears. your data is prob from 2016.

clocksstoppe

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Wasn't there a video of a level 3 magblade completing nMA?

Ask and ye shall receive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axsgf6Ei_lU


As for OP, clearly he should git gud as the VMA weapon sets won't give him the boost that he imagines will make up for the lack of skill, even fi they gave the weps out for free.

Marabornwingrion

Sure, but make perfected versions drop ONLY from flawless runs.

lokulin

LeagueTroll wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

lokulin wrote: »

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

You are making up numbers.

I'm using the only numbers I have access to which are from ESO DB achievement reports. Not perfect but most likely within a reasonable order of magnitude.

https://eso-database.com/en/character/storm-s-daughter/14209373/achievements/orsinium/41/

Maelstrom Arena Champion
Conquer all challengers and earn the title of Maelstrom Arena Champion.
Nov 28, 2016 6:51 PM
10.33% of all Players have achieved this.

Maelstrom Arena Conqueror
Conquer all challengers in Veteran Maelstrom Arena.
Apr 30, 2018 8:39 PM
4.77% of all Players have achieved this.

Maelstrom Arena: Perfect Run
Complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena without dying, and without continuing from a saved quest.
1.25% of all Players have achieved this.

The second post is saying that approximately 10% complete normal MA, 5% complete vMA, and 1.25% get flawless.

I'm making the assumption here that if you have completed vMA you have also completed nMA. 4.77% is roughly half of 10%. 1.25% is roughly one tenth of 10%.

The numbers are the same just restating in a slightly different way.

looks more like half the ppl commented on this thread has vma clears. your data is prob from 2016.

There would be a huge selection bias in this thread and on these forums. The data I have is from ESO DB so while not perfect, it is as current and accurate we can get from PC as there are no official published stats.