I would like Maelstrom weapons to be separated into a regular and Perfected version

Olupajmibanan

Perfected versions for flawless runs, non-perfected for regular vMA clears seems a pretty nice improvement to me. But how would you revise it. You can't improve Maelstrom weps without looking on Asylum and Master weps as well.

- Master weapons have one ability-altering bonus. No perfected version exists.
- Maelstrom weapons have one ability-altering bonus. No perfected version exists.
- Asylum weapons have one ability-altering Bonus. Perfected version have the same but stronger ability-altering bonus.
- Blackrose weapons have one ability altering bonus. Perfected version adds another stat set bonus.

The most reasonable solution would be Blackrose system applied on Master, Maelstrom and Asylum weapons too. But as Was said before, ZoS isn't very likely to tweak old sets. Just look at Sentinel of Rkugamz: it has been bugged and useless for years.

mr_wazzabi

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Perfected malestorm weapons for flawless runs would be nice

Perfected for vma, normal for nma.

That is the standard from the new arenas, so it should apply that way.

code65536

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

Let me fix that for you: "The sense of elitism with this player base is outright ridiculous." I have cleared vMA countless times since the original Orsinium patch. Multiple Flawless titles and dozens of vMA fire staves across my three accounts. And I have absolutely no problem with creating new Perfected versions as vet rewards and giving out non-Perfected versions in normal.

Why does it matter to you if normal versions of Maelstrom weapons are made accessible to players? What does it take away from you? Are you really that petty and insecure? Why aren't you complaining that normal Relequen is available from normal Cloudrest, which is a laughable joke compared to veteran? Also, is the satisfaction of beating vMA not enough? Is the prestige of the Flawless title not enough? Is competition on the leaderboard not enough? Those are the real rewards of vet.

Unlike other games, where stats and gear rule everything, ESO is skill-based. Stats and gear help, of course, but skillful play matter more. And in keeping with this spirit, gear is easily accessible in ESO. Every single BiS gear is accessible in normal or has a slightly weaker imperfect version available in normal, with the exception of Maelstrom weapons (although Master weapons are not currently available in nDSA, slightly downscaled Master weapons did drop from nDSA prior to the 2016 Q4 update). Maelstrom is the glaring exception that needs to be fixed.

ccfeeling

Lower the ceiling?
Bad idea

Ajantisz

code65536 wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

Let me fix that for you: "The sense of elitism with this player base is outright ridiculous." I have cleared vMA countless times since the original Orsinium patch. Multiple Flawless titles and dozens of vMA fire staves across my three accounts. And I have absolutely no problem with creating new Perfected versions as vet rewards and giving out non-Perfected versions in normal.

Why does it matter to you if normal versions of Maelstrom weapons are made accessible to players? What does it take away from you? Are you really that petty and insecure? Why aren't you complaining that normal Relequen is available from normal Cloudrest, which is a laughable joke compared to veteran? Also, is the satisfaction of beating vMA not enough? Is the prestige of the Flawless title not enough? Is competition on the leaderboard not enough? Those are the real rewards of vet.

Unlike other games, where stats and gear rule everything, ESO is skill-based. Stats and gear help, of course, but skillful play matter more. And in keeping with this spirit, gear is easily accessible in ESO. Every single BiS gear is accessible in normal or has a slightly weaker imperfect version available in normal, with the exception of Maelstrom weapons (although Master weapons are not currently available in nDSA, slightly downscaled Master weapons did drop from nDSA prior to the 2016 Q4 update). Maelstrom is the glaring exception that needs to be fixed.

Would be nice to see, and would actually make nMA have some sort of use as right now it is absolutely pointless to do it. It's nice that ZoS have learned they need to introduce progression in their itemisation and to encourage people to move into the trial content and further into Vet and Vet-HM. Coming from WoW a long time back I see things that game did right, and that ESO doesnt - one big one is gear progression. The locking of Maelstrom weapons behind Vet mode is a relic of old methodology ESO that should get an update if the weapons are going to persist as part of the meta, I think though they will need to address the tuning of nMA to be a bit tougher as currently you can practically sleep through it.

Firstmep

Give me vma weapon skins already, i dont care who gets what weapon, its ancient content that was designed around 300 cp we are nearly 3 times that now, just spam sigils on hard encounters if all you want is weapons.
Honestly ill never understand whats so hard about vma, most fights and spawns are fixed and scripted, like all the trial encounters you would want them for.
None of the weapons are any good in pvp anymore, like i said and for most dungeons you dont need the extra damage.

spartaxoxo

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

What is with this trend of people wanting to get easy mode for VMA. Do the content and earn it. If you can't do it, you don't get it!. Nobody should get the top prizes for not participating and trying.

I want that to happen so better top prizes are available to me. I'd love the old bonuses they used to grant ontop of their current abilities to be added back in as a 2 piece set bonus, and get labelled as the perfect versions.

Mister_DMC

Firstmep wrote: »

Give me vma weapon skins already, i dont care who gets what weapon, its ancient content that was designed around 300 cp we are nearly 3 times that now, just spam sigils on hard encounters if all you want is weapons.
Honestly ill never understand whats so hard about vma, most fights and spawns are fixed and scripted, like all the trial encounters you would want them for.
None of the weapons are any good in pvp anymore, like i said and for most dungeons you dont need the extra damage.

Agreed, let me use the sexy greatsword, maul or Battleaxe as a weapon style skin

Crixus8000

I know it's not what your asking but honestly build more for survivability and you will have a much easier time. I got through the first 7 rounds without a death on my first try and that was on a badly geared pvp char, I never do pve but wanted one of the weapons. With strong hots and decent tanky stats you can ignore a lot of the mechanics that could otherwise be deadly and have a more relaxing time going through, dps is for scores, if you only want an item then you don't need much tbh, I did it easy with around 10-20k.

leepalmer95

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

Not at all.

The problem is that the player base in this game is just sheer lazy. They're so used to light attacking their way through content that when anything even remotely 'challenging' comes up they'd rather it nerfed and made easier than try it.

I don't see it myself, if i play games are it's too easy i get so bored i either increase the difficulty or stop playing the game.

VMSA is 3 yr old content, it's been nerfed numerous times as well. If you aren't even willing to try the content they don't come on the forum and ask for the rewards to been made easier to get.

An_An

Wiping three times on the vMA ice stage has become the norm for my weekends. I’m an average PvE / PvP player and it frustrates me how difficult vMA is. I have never made it past the ice stage and I don’t think I will.

But that’s okay, because I’m not a professional gamer and don’t need to be the best of the best.

That being said, I’d love to improve my game and actively look for builds/gear that could help improve my overall game experience.

If you are Stormproof or a Flawless Conqueror, I salute you and remind you that the average person also wishes to complete end game content (maybe I don’t care about being on leaderboards but I do want to complete it). I would also like to remind everyone that the majority of players on the forums are top tier players and do not represent the average player. And it is not fun when one keeps dying just because one hasn’t memorized the mechanics. If I wanted to spend time getting stressed trying to memorize something, I’d rather do that at work where I get paid for it.

In short, trying to complete vMA makes me hate ESO. Please let me enjoy the game and experiment with gear that is currently beyond my reach. I’d be happy if nMA drops weapons which are 3 times weaker than vMA.

SoLooney

Is that seriously your answer to not being able to beat vma? Is to make the weapons perfected and non perfected so anyone can get a cookie?

You obviously dont need the weapons. Facepalm

idk

Royaji wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe it has something to do with the fact that Maelstrom was released long before the concept of perfected versions even made it into the game. And trust me, it's not common for ZOS (or any MMO developer, honestly) to revisit 3 year old content.

Zos has revisited the old content. They rescaled it to our level. When that happened vAA and vHRC were almost 3 years old. vDSA was not far behind when they upgraded it.

They also revisited most of the trials again when they removed all BoE gear and added new BoP gear to trials.

So it can happen and OP is not the first person to suggest this in recent months. My guess is it will happen eventually, though it may not be until Zos does an unnecessary gear cap change.

An_An

SoLooney wrote: »

Is that seriously your answer to not being able to beat vma? Is to make the weapons perfected and non perfected so anyone can get a cookie?

You obviously dont need the weapons. Facepalm

Umm thank you for telling me what I don’t need.
While you’re at it would you also like to tell me how to play my game ?

You obviously are a very good player so I’d request you to keep your privilege in check in the future.

Sigtric

An_An wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

Is that seriously your answer to not being able to beat vma? Is to make the weapons perfected and non perfected so anyone can get a cookie?

You obviously dont need the weapons. Facepalm

Umm thank you for telling me what I don’t need.
While you’re at it would you also like to tell me how to play my game ?

You obviously are a very good player so I’d request you to keep your privilege in check in the future.

Tell you how to play? I mean if you listened to the folks with the vma weapons already, maybe you could earn one yourself.


You all want them so badly but the thing is, they aren't game changing. They are a couple extra % if you are already performing at the level that you seem to think they will magically make you.


Putting a hammer and chisel in my hands doesn't automatically make me a statue maker. Getting the Maelstrom weapon doesn't make you better at the game.


Go put in the time, earn it, and then not only you will be better for it, you'll understand.

ImmortalCX

Firstmep wrote: »

Give me vma weapon skins already, i dont care who gets what weapon, its ancient content that was designed around 300 cp we are nearly 3 times that now, just spam sigils on hard encounters if all you want is weapons.
Honestly ill never understand whats so hard about vma, most fights and spawns are fixed and scripted, like all the trial encounters you would want them for.
None of the weapons are any good in pvp anymore, like i said and for most dungeons you dont need the extra damage.

By the time you have memorized the spawns for every stage, you have already played it hundreds of times.

Sure, its not difficult for those who have played it hundreds of times, but most ppl try it 10, 20, 30 times, get wrecked and then quit.

Most normal ppl dont view getting killed hundreds of times over many hours and days "easy" content.

Sigtric

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Give me vma weapon skins already, i dont care who gets what weapon, its ancient content that was designed around 300 cp we are nearly 3 times that now, just spam sigils on hard encounters if all you want is weapons.
Honestly ill never understand whats so hard about vma, most fights and spawns are fixed and scripted, like all the trial encounters you would want them for.
None of the weapons are any good in pvp anymore, like i said and for most dungeons you dont need the extra damage.

By the time you have memorized the spawns for every stage, you have already played it hundreds of times.

Sure, its not difficult for those who have played it hundreds of times, but most ppl try it 10, 20, 30 times, get wrecked and then quit.

Most normal ppl dont view getting killed hundreds of times over many hours and days "easy" content.

I've got less than 50 clears, among several different characters. I'm not that good. I was just willing to put in the effort to get it done.

jcm2606

The thing is, it isn't even a matter of memorising the spawns, just knowing the mechanics. I got my bow in a dozen or so clears during the double drops event a little while ago, and I didn't even know the spawns, hell I still don't know them off the top of my head. All I know is what to do in each round, which mobs I should prioritise, and how to deal with them. That's it. Memorising spawns is what you need if you're going for a speed run, leaderboard run or a flawless clear. A regular clear, just knowing the mechanics is more than enough.

I share the same sentiment as @leepalmer95. People wanting imperfect drops are just too lazy to either learn the arena, or keep at it. You shouldn't be handed powerful items like this for just clearing the *** easy version of the arena, nor should you be handed powerful items on your first clear (though the current grind can be too much, which is why I'm still in support of a token system). The game needs something that players strive for, to keep players working at the content and bettering themselves. The Maelstrom weapons are just that.

If you're stuck on any stage of vMA, there are guides on how to clear them. I used Joy's guides on my first two or three clears, and I highly recommend them.

SaintSubwayy

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Perfected malestorm weapons for flawless runs would be nice

Kinda useless tbh...IF they would introduce perfected Weapons / inperfected Weapons then they would have to stick to the same terms then the perfected / imperfected from vAS / vCR.
Therefore let imperfect drop in normal, and vet.
Perfected only from vet HM (which doesnt actually exist in vMA) or Weekly leaderboards.

IMO weekly leaderboards from vMA could use that, since on PC EU Warden / DK / Templar leaderboards never get full atm....not quiet sure about Sorcs tho.

Bevik

I don't want to see any Maelstrom changes(except that they give back the WD/SD bonuses). Here is why:

- Doable even with the most squishy class
- nMA is so easy it is nothing but to see the arenas atleast should not give away any powerful items
- nMA is a good use of leveling a char
- vMA is significantly harder but it is a matter of time and practice and a good learning curve of the whole arena and your char
- If you beat vMA you know a lot about how to play in a tough situation
- vMA made my playstyle a lot more dynamic

CompM4s

Regular maelstrom weapon for nma and perfected version for vma sounds fair. I personally have no issue with vma and would like a perfected version. I have no issue with others getting normal version if they can atleast beat it on normal.

Maryal

leepalmer95 wrote: »

lokulin wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

The sense of self entitlement with this playerbase is outright ridiculous.

If you're not good enough to do vMA, then you have no business getting your hands on the best weapons in the game.

But they wouldn't be the best weapons, the perfected versions would be. Only 10% of players complete the normal arena. Less than 50% of players that complete the normal arena go on to complete the veteran version and only 10% go on to get flawless.

The sense of entitlement among this small percentage of players that only they should have half decent gear is the truly ridiculous thing.

The reality would be tho that even with normal and perfected weapons all the popular published builds would just update to only use the perfected ones and we'd be no further ahead.

Not at all.

The problem is that the player base in this game is just sheer lazy. They're so used to light attacking their way through content that when anything even remotely 'challenging' comes up they'd rather it nerfed and made easier than try it.

I don't see it myself, if i play games are it's too easy i get so bored i either increase the difficulty or stop playing the game.

VMSA is 3 yr old content, it's been nerfed numerous times as well. If you aren't even willing to try the content they don't come on the forum and ask for the rewards to been made easier to get.

The game doesn't encourage experience (as in terms of game mastery). Pvp doesn't encourage it either - in fact, it does the opposite -- it encourages joining ball groups and playing follow the leader.

Unfortunately too many of these (under-experienced) players think they are better at the game than they really are -- and you know what happens next, right? Yep, the forums are inundated with posts from these players qq'ing about some class they can't kill (or got killed by), their inability to counter against some skill/ability, or how their armor is weak-sauce, etc., they either jump on the nerf bandwagon, or insist that ZOS should totally re-work large parts of the game (armor passives, skills/abilities, CP, gear sets, etc.).

When vMA was first introduced nobody beat it their first playthrough, nor their second, nor their third, etc. Back then we knew what it meant to 'get gud' ... we didn't have a barrage of powerful proc sets to choose from, most of us wore agility, endurance or willpower jewelry, and we had relatively few monster sets to chose from (most wore engine guardian, blood spawn or valkyn scoria).

Since that time, for better or worse, ZOS has made it easier and easier for under-experienced players to acquire powerful gear with not a lot of effort ... ZOS knows many of these under-experienced players use this gear as a substitute for experience/game mastery.

Pumping out more and more powerful gear every 3 months isn't fixing anything, in fact, it is making things worse -- the 'power gap' between players with a lot of experience/game mastery vs. under-experienced players keeps getting wider.

You're not going to gain meaningful experience/game mastery by following the leader in a ball-group, or being carried by a group doing difficult pve content, or by watching YouTube videos.

These under-experienced players need to solo difficult content as a learning experience ... but they aren't going to do that unless they are properly incentivized. So far, all we have in that regard is Maelstrom Arena.

So why don't they just do vMA? The problem is that vMA is too difficult for many of these under-experienced players - no matter what they do they will fail; they simply are too under experienced in terms of game mechanics, timing, mastery.

While vMA may be out of reach for a lot of these players, nMA is a different story. For them, completing nMA will be very difficult and challenging, but not insurmountable. Completing this content will give them a lot of 'gains' in terms of experience, game mechanics, timing, etc.

Unfortunately, the rewards from nMA provide little in terms of an incentive to complete the content (you can get better armor sets elsewhere and in group content that you can be carried in).

THROW THEM A BONE! Make non-perfected Maelstrom weapons a reality!

MajBludd

Let's just put them in the crown store. I mean eventually ppl will say that it's too hard to get the imperfect ones. Let's hang this horse and put everything in the crown store to make it "easier" for ppl who just don't have the time. *sarcasm*

code65536

leepalmer95 wrote: »

VMSA is 3 yr old content, it's been nerfed numerous times as well.

@leepalmer95 You might want to check your facts before posting. vMA has been nerfed exactly once, when the health of the centurions on the non-boss rounds of stage 2 was reduced.



Every person in this thread saying, "normal is too easy" or "you don't deserve the gear if you can't do vet" all fail to address the biggest flaw in their argument: You can get gear from every other piece of normal content, including some BiS items. The OP Relequen set? You can get from normal Cloudrest, where Z'Maja's heavy attacks tickle, Malevolent orbs do no damage, and Dark Detonation in the shadow realm doesn't even kill you.

You all act like the nMA-vMA difficulty gap is something unique in this game and that granting gear in normal is somehow an aberration. When at the end of the day, it's just hilariously petty insecurity.

ccfeeling

Weapons set should not divided in normal and perfect version.

Zos started it from as, and then black Rose Prison.

They broke the rules.

Monsieur

Trial comparison is not valid since normal trial gear requires 11 other people, which for some can be an insurmountable challenge in and of itself.

Normal trials can also be challenging for some groups, particularly new players who don’t know the mechanics, or have enough CP allocated to the red tree for survival.

Normal Maelstrom Arena is at a difficulty level that is equivalent to overworld. Asking for Imperfect Maelstrom weapons to drop from the difficulty equivalent of a dolmen seems like a potential bigger reward than the effort put in, particularly with transmutation so widely available.

And to be honest I’m not sure we’d even want an imperfect maelstrom weapon, the bonus may be worse than what you’d use for 5th pieces on destro staff if it’s so easy to obtain.

Be careful what you wish for.

mr_wazzabi

Mister_DMC wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Give me vma weapon skins already, i dont care who gets what weapon, its ancient content that was designed around 300 cp we are nearly 3 times that now, just spam sigils on hard encounters if all you want is weapons.
Honestly ill never understand whats so hard about vma, most fights and spawns are fixed and scripted, like all the trial encounters you would want them for.
None of the weapons are any good in pvp anymore, like i said and for most dungeons you dont need the extra damage.

Agreed, let me use the sexy greatsword, maul or Battleaxe as a weapon style skin

The bow and maul are so awesome looking. + 1000 for this request

jcm2606

Ability-altering weapons, the vMA bow & staff in particular with this thread, cannot be compared to full 5-piece sets just because of how they work. The reason why people say that people who can't complete vMA won't see an impactful change running the weapons, is because the abilities these weapons alter require proper usage to actually be an advantage.

The vMA bow buffs Volley the longer it lasts, so you get the most out of it when you let it run its course and refresh it immediately as it ends, which newer players, ie the players who can't complete vMA, generally don't grasp (yet). The vMA destruction staff directly buffs weaving, so you will only see the damage boost if you're adequately weaving, which newer players generally don't (yet). To make matters worse, ability-altering weapons, at least weapons like the vMA bow and the vDSA dual wield, require a damage tick to go through in order to proc, and so require the user to have the right rotation to use them, which newer players generally don't have a clean rotation.

So we have these weapons locked behind the veteran version of the arena, and players, who generally won't be advantaged running these weapons, are asking for lesser version of them. At that point, the weapon will literally be useless, because what little advantage the "perfect" weapon has gets gutted if the "imperfect" is a nerfed version of the "perfect" weapon. At that point, newer players will genuinely be better off running a 5-piece set in place of a special weapon like this. So, what's the point of giving out basically a feel-good trophy?

Aside from having access to weapons, vMA does teach you things about the game. vMA not only teaches you awareness skills and how to adapt to mechanics on-the-fly, but it also teaches you about your class's strengths and weaknesses, and how to navigate and exploit them. You cannot learn these things in even a vet trial, where you have 11 other players to carry you through the ***. vMA not only teaches you things, but forces you to learn them in order to even move on to the next add wave, let alone the next stage.

As I said. vMA is less about memorising the spawns, and more about learning the mechanics. There are dozens of guides on vMA, and I recommended two very helpful guides from Joy, who even has tips on not only each of the stages, but each of the classes. This information is out there, and if you are bashing your head against a wall, I highly recommend looking for it, as I was in the same spot.

vMA is one of the most rage-inducing pieces of content in the game if you're inexperienced, but it is one of the very few pieces of content that truly teaches you about the game at such a high level. And it rewards you with a strong weapon, that makes a good player better, but a strong player a monster.

Facefister

Why do people want more equipment disparity?

Mister_DMC

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Mister_DMC wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Give me vma weapon skins already, i dont care who gets what weapon, its ancient content that was designed around 300 cp we are nearly 3 times that now, just spam sigils on hard encounters if all you want is weapons.
Honestly ill never understand whats so hard about vma, most fights and spawns are fixed and scripted, like all the trial encounters you would want them for.
None of the weapons are any good in pvp anymore, like i said and for most dungeons you dont need the extra damage.

Agreed, let me use the sexy greatsword, maul or Battleaxe as a weapon style skin

The bow and maul are so awesome looking. + 1000 for this request

Tired of looking at the bow personally. Been staring at it for 3 years now. Prefer to use the Kena bow and shadowrend bow now. The assassin's League bow also looks really cool.