What do you guys think of the boundless storm change?

ccmedaddy

What if they made the DoT work like Overwhelming Surge

ESO_Nightingale

Just revert everything speed related but swift. That was the problem...

_Ahala_

The reduction on the major expedition uptimes given by skills is a terrible change that sucks the fun out of the game... if they don’t revert these changes many players will quit

MashmalloMan

Vahrokh wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Every rep that spoke remarked that sorcerers already have to make difficult decisions with builds because sustain is an issue and lack of bar space, which means they already have trouble securing legit kills in PvP (i.e. not kill stealing by spamming mage’s wrath). We also noted that making shields so they can be critically hit was already a significant nerf that deserved testing on its own, and that the one-second cast-time will get sorcerers killed in a competitive PvP environment. We also said that ZOS has hit sorcerer offensive capability pretty hard the past year, which makes the sort of build diversity they want harder. They acknowledged this and did more than insinuate that sorcerer offense is going to be reformed in the future (at one point, a dev asked out loud if they could be specific. They could not). We told them without these offensive changes it was asking too much to hit the sorcerers with a nerf to their defense first and make them wait for this vague promise in the future. We also mentioned, numerous times, that the mechanic of cast-times is something that is disliked by many people because it breaks the flow of the fluid and fast paced combat that defines ESO. We also went through a bunch of other various reasons that folks on the forums and discords brought up. In short, we pressed and that’s why it lasted over 30 minutes.

The part in bold ^, quote from class rep meeting on Sept 25. I know it's difficult to look at all the big changes to sorc's right now, but I have a lot of hope that these changes are the better part of a big change to how sorc's will play in the future. It's hard to be patient, but I think all the changes made this patch are a stepping stone to the bigger picture. It's sad that we have little to no idea what that is.

I'll be going to be very patient, but ZOS won't get my money while they sort their mess up. I know of no service that stops working and you keep paying for it.

ku5h wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Every rep that spoke remarked that sorcerers already have to make difficult decisions with builds because sustain is an issue and lack of bar space, which means they already have trouble securing legit kills in PvP (i.e. not kill stealing by spamming mage’s wrath). We also noted that making shields so they can be critically hit was already a significant nerf that deserved testing on its own, and that the one-second cast-time will get sorcerers killed in a competitive PvP environment. We also said that ZOS has hit sorcerer offensive capability pretty hard the past year, which makes the sort of build diversity they want harder. They acknowledged this and did more than insinuate that sorcerer offense is going to be reformed in the future (at one point, a dev asked out loud if they could be specific. They could not). We told them without these offensive changes it was asking too much to hit the sorcerers with a nerf to their defense first and make them wait for this vague promise in the future. We also mentioned, numerous times, that the mechanic of cast-times is something that is disliked by many people because it breaks the flow of the fluid and fast paced combat that defines ESO. We also went through a bunch of other various reasons that folks on the forums and discords brought up. In short, we pressed and that’s why it lasted over 30 minutes.

The part in bold ^, quote from class rep meeting on Sept 25. I know it's difficult to look at all the big changes to sorc's right now, but I have a lot of hope that these changes are the better part of a big change to how sorc's will play in the future. It's hard to be patient, but I think all the changes made this patch are a stepping stone to the bigger picture. It's sad that we have little to no idea what that is.

ZoS is made of empty promises. Dont hold your breath my friend. Btw, what they ment by reforming the offense was adding that 10% on proc frag...lol, it's funny but it can easily be true in their heads. This PTS cycle is all the proof you need for it.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, seeing as there is little to no change for stam sorc's in the next update after they said it was widely going to be focused on sustain, I see little purpose to continue playing the next 1-4-7 months until another dlc/chapter. They need to really revamp the way stam classes play and sorc as a whole. Having hope doesn't mean I have to sit around waiting. Every year I fall off the wagon around this time, but come back for anything substantial. Murkmire has a new arena with no weapons that interest me, but I know I'll be back playing everyday if they manage to add something really interesting again.

For now, I honestly think of the class rep program as a good thing and it has given me a little hope reading the notes as the reps have really pushed for what I like to hear. It's just a matter of time before we see anything actually implemented in the game. You can think poorly of ZOS, but by the bolded comment I really don't think they meant a 10% buff to frags, but a complete rework of the class as a whole.

Passives suck and are uninspiring, bar space is a problem, mobile class isn't mobile, pets/non pet sorcs take up so many skill options where other classes only worry about 1 playstyle (could be a good/bad thing), tank/healers have very poor synergy and no useful ults with overloads change. The sorc is in an awful place. The lightning/wind class theme is my favourite and it's why I continue to wait.

Buff boundless storm and hurricane with 2 sec snare immunity like wings please.

Juhasow

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Boundles seems to be the weakest source of class armor buff even expedition wasnt that great and now it's cut in half and dmg feels like it's just there because devs had no other idea for it.

Yeah. It seems the only ideas they have had lately are bad ones. It is weak, and requires additional resistances buffs to be viable. So that's even more upfront preparation sorcs need to make, and less time doing anything fun like actually fighting. It's almost like the devs expect sorcs to just run around lit up with effects, not really doing anything meaningful.

#feelsbadman

Yeah well actually redesigning bound armor and moving minor resistances buff to boundless storm could be the least they can do for the class.

Juhasow

The funny thing is that they're nerfing speed buffs left and right and have no focus on further consequences of that changes like for example ice blockade mag dks beeing able to control whole fight. They just overnerf 1 thing that stacked too much was cancer to make other things work even more cancerous.

MashmalloMan

Juhasow wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Boundles seems to be the weakest source of class armor buff even expedition wasnt that great and now it's cut in half and dmg feels like it's just there because devs had no other idea for it.

Yeah. It seems the only ideas they have had lately are bad ones. It is weak, and requires additional resistances buffs to be viable. So that's even more upfront preparation sorcs need to make, and less time doing anything fun like actually fighting. It's almost like the devs expect sorcs to just run around lit up with effects, not really doing anything meaningful.

#feelsbadman

Yeah well actually redesigning bound armor and moving minor resistances buff to boundless storm could be the least they can do for the class.

Bound Weapon please, give tanks something else. I don't think a single tank asked for the block reduction buff for 3 seconds on a skill that has been for DPS for 3+ years. Makes no sense.

Juhasow

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Boundles seems to be the weakest source of class armor buff even expedition wasnt that great and now it's cut in half and dmg feels like it's just there because devs had no other idea for it.

Yeah. It seems the only ideas they have had lately are bad ones. It is weak, and requires additional resistances buffs to be viable. So that's even more upfront preparation sorcs need to make, and less time doing anything fun like actually fighting. It's almost like the devs expect sorcs to just run around lit up with effects, not really doing anything meaningful.

#feelsbadman

Yeah well actually redesigning bound armor and moving minor resistances buff to boundless storm could be the least they can do for the class.

Bound Weapon please, give tanks something else. I don't think a single tank asked for the block reduction buff for 3 seconds on a skill that has been for DPS for 3+ years. Makes no sense.

Ironically tank is the build where this block mitigation change works the worst since tanks usually already have lot of mitigation. Also yeah gl giving high block cost mitigation for 3 seconds with very high cost when dk tank have block mitigation passive for free. That is just classic zenimax when they have no idea what to do they just throw some random stuff and call it a day.

MashmalloMan

Juhasow wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Boundles seems to be the weakest source of class armor buff even expedition wasnt that great and now it's cut in half and dmg feels like it's just there because devs had no other idea for it.

Yeah. It seems the only ideas they have had lately are bad ones. It is weak, and requires additional resistances buffs to be viable. So that's even more upfront preparation sorcs need to make, and less time doing anything fun like actually fighting. It's almost like the devs expect sorcs to just run around lit up with effects, not really doing anything meaningful.

#feelsbadman

Yeah well actually redesigning bound armor and moving minor resistances buff to boundless storm could be the least they can do for the class.

Bound Weapon please, give tanks something else. I don't think a single tank asked for the block reduction buff for 3 seconds on a skill that has been for DPS for 3+ years. Makes no sense.

Ironically tank is the build where this block mitigation change works the worst since tanks usually already have lot of mitigation. Also yeah gl giving high block cost mitigation for 3 seconds with very high cost when dk tank have block mitigation passive for free. That is just classic zenimax when they have no idea what to do they just throw some random stuff and call it a day.

Well 36% is pretty substantial, but why on earth is it in the base ability as if tanks need 8% stam/11% light atk dmg. I'm sorry, but what tank would waste 3k stamina to get that buff. Bound aegis makes a little more sense. There could of been a much more interesting way to change bound armor to something useful for DD'S, tanks already have little to no space, they deserve more abilities, YES, but this was a crap change.

If you wanted the 8% health and 35% heal other classes can get on 1 skill slot abilities you need to use 2 slots. Tanking on sorc, has no space for 36% block mitigation. Just disappointing and not well thought out.

Imagine bound weapon was a 20 sec buff so you don't have to worry about it being passive meaning you could only have it on 1 bar, when you activate the ability you get something else instead of 36% block mitigation, IDK, I guess it would be similar to overload. Currently even though it isn't a toggle I use bound armaments on both bars and it just sits there being a skill for passives, it's a dps loss to not use it on both bars.

Sorry, off topic I suppose.

Tannus15

Why would I use boundless when I can use balance?

The damage is terrible, it's expensive and now the speed buff is bad.
Soooo, yeah nah.

Literally the only thing going for it is that it looks cool.

MashmalloMan

Tannus15 wrote: »

Why would I use boundless when I can use balance?

The damage is terrible, it's expensive and now the speed buff is bad.
Soooo, yeah nah.

Literally the only thing going for it is that it looks cool.

Looks cool yes, but after playing some other alt's, I have to say it would be much better to not show up as invisible. My costume means nothing when I can never see it and in high effect situation I literally can not see my character or what I'm doing. It almost becomes a cluster f, I sometimes just want to cast blade cloak then hurricane just so I can see my character.

Haven't really thought about it, but do others have trouble targeting sorcs using hurricane/boundless storm?

ccmedaddy wrote: »

What if they made the DoT work like Overwhelming Surge

It would be pretty neat if boundless storm worked that way, high dmg lightning bolts every 1 second, the lightning bolt has cleave dmg that cuts by 25% to each target it bounces too. Instead of 1k dmg a second, it could do 3k to the first target in a 7m radius. Food for thought

Juhasow

Change major expedition to 4 sec immobilize/snare immunity lol.

ESO_Nightingale

Tannus15 wrote: »

Why would I use boundless when I can use balance?

The damage is terrible, it's expensive and now the speed buff is bad.
Soooo, yeah nah.

Literally the only thing going for it is that it looks cool.

Only to be used on tanks now.

Lylith

suppose they think slowing the game down will reduce lag?

i don't.

used to use boundless for the speed buff, but now...<shrug> i'm not sure if i'm interested in 'l2p' anymore.

might be time to 'l2p' something else that's actually fun

Feanor

AFAIK the vast majority of snares either match or exceed the 30% Major Expedition buff. So in actual PvP play the skill does nothing else then giving the two armor buffs for some 20 odd seconds and a tiny damage component that never hits unless the opponent is right on top of you. While the resists are of worth now the skill is still too costly for what it does.

It won’t be worth a bar slot on a Sorc that has lost the overload bar next patch. I already don’t know how to fit the existing mandatory skills.

kind_hero

There is almost no advantage to use this anymore, given the shortened duration. Because the bar space is so important, I would rather slot something else. 4 seconds is almost nothing. Also this is something unique to the sorc... it made you look like lightning, so it cool, putting this away will remove that uniqueness sorcs had.

OK, maybe they are balancing stuff, but they are also removing the fun from the gameplay to please the very vocal pvp/pve min/maxers

FrancisCrawford

Tasear wrote: »

It's 8 secs to 4 secs? How will this affect your gameplay?

Boundless Storm is a really fun skill, but the fun depends on the speed buff.

TheYKcid

I've always run Boundless on my Sorc. The resists are nothing special (though they will be crucial after the shield changes), and the damage component completely sucks, but the much-needed mobility-on-demand makes me love it. Losing a full 3.5 seconds of that is going to hurt, and is completely unnecessary seeing as Sorc is far from the most mobile class on live.

However, I'm being cautiously optimistic for now. The mobility we lose from the Boundless nerf is being returned, to some extent, through the new light armor passives—snare resistance and sprint cost reduction. Compounded with the fact that everyone else (rapids-spamming zergs aside) is also losing tons of mobility, it could mean we don't need as much mobility as we currently do... relatively speaking.

I'll keep it on my bar for now and see how the situation unfolds.

Derra

ccmedaddy wrote: »

What if they made the DoT work like Overwhelming Surge

Well - to make it somewhat of a melee deterrent it wouldn´t need overwhelmings 12m range. Nor tripple it´s current dmg (that´s what overwhelming has).

Having it work with 7m range and a slight dmg increase would work.

I´d also make it give 1s of major expedition when it hits an enemy.

Feanor

@Derra

At this point I feel like the only way without a rework is to “overload” Sorc skills so they have more utility on less bar space. Your suggestion doesn’t achieve that.

Derra

Feanor wrote: »

@Derra

At this point I feel like the only way without a rework is to “overload” Sorc skills so they have more utility on less bar space. Your suggestion doesn’t achieve that.

Yeh i agree - i was just looking at what might make people inclined to slot the current iteration of the skill with as little changes as possible.

Overall sorc has too many singlepurpose skills with no secondary effects or useful passive associated to them. Personally i´d combine boundless and bound armor in some way and replace either of those with sth else.
Or give boundless some kind of offensive purpose (like hurricane has). Maybe make it hit the target of your lightattacks up to 22m range or sth like that.

Morgul667

No change for me

RaddlemanNumber7

This won't affect my game play. I use Boundless Storm for the Major resistances, and for the aoe to help generate more crit hits to trigger Surge healing reliably.

In PvP I find this speed buff to be a bit of a two edged sword. I find that getting that sudden speed increase is often to propel me out in front of my group, thus attracting more incoming fire from opponents.
Outside of PvP the speed buff is little more than a decoration.

I never really understood why this spell gave 2 active benefits in addition to Major resistances. It seems outrageously out of balance when compared to what other classes get in the way of Major resistance spells .

Chilly-McFreeze

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I never really understood why this spell gave 2 active benefits in addition to Major resistances. It seems outrageously out of balance when compared to what other classes get in the way of Major resistance spells .

The two active components are mediocre, the cost is too high and other classes have other useful benefits with a much better cost/utility ratio. You know, some classes even get that resistance buffs through a passive.

ku5h

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

This won't affect my game play. I use Boundless Storm for the Major resistances, and for the aoe to help generate more crit hits to trigger Surge healing reliably.

In PvP I find this speed buff to be a bit of a two edged sword. I find that getting that sudden speed increase is often to propel me out in front of my group, thus attracting more incoming fire from opponents.
Outside of PvP the speed buff is little more than a decoration.

I never really understood why this spell gave 2 active benefits in addition to Major resistances. It seems outrageously out of balance when compared to what other classes get in the way of Major resistance spells .

You got that right. Worst performing skill in it's category.

RaddlemanNumber7

ku5h wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

This won't affect my game play. I use Boundless Storm for the Major resistances, and for the aoe to help generate more crit hits to trigger Surge healing reliably.

In PvP I find this speed buff to be a bit of a two edged sword. I find that getting that sudden speed increase is often to propel me out in front of my group, thus attracting more incoming fire from opponents.
Outside of PvP the speed buff is little more than a decoration.

I never really understood why this spell gave 2 active benefits in addition to Major resistances. It seems outrageously out of balance when compared to what other classes get in the way of Major resistance spells .

You got that right. Worst performing skill in it's category.

Thank you for understanding

Feanor

@Derra

How about reducing ability cost by 4% while Boundless is up? Would help with sustain, with mobility (cost reduction on Streak and more saved magicka for streaking) while rewarding someone for keeping it up. Also, you are freaking lightning. Things should go with a bit more ease in that form.

CasNation

Seems like I am one of about 6 people that actually use this skill on live...

Personally, I find it to be a necessary skill in BGs for getting to and from objectives. The biggest reason I used the skill was the Major Expedition, and now that is going away. I am not sure I am going to be able to justify using it anymore, as I dropped Harbess Magicka to run it.

To be fair, I also use it for the resists and to occasionally zap bad NBs out if stealth, but really, it was the speed that I used it for. Now I worry that one of the sorcs primary characteristics (mobility) be essentially dead.

IAVITNI

kind_hero wrote: »

There is almost no advantage to use this anymore, given the shortened duration. Because the bar space is so important, I would rather slot something else. 4 seconds is almost nothing. Also this is something unique to the sorc... it made you look like lightning, so it cool, putting this away will remove that uniqueness sorcs had.

OK, maybe they are balancing stuff, but they are also removing the fun from the gameplay to please the very vocal pvp/pve min/maxers

Trust me, they are not pleasing the min/maxers of either game mode.

IAVITNI

Feanor wrote: »

@Derra

How about reducing ability cost by 4% while Boundless is up? Would help with sustain, with mobility (cost reduction on Streak and more saved magicka for streaking) while rewarding someone for keeping it up. Also, you are freaking lightning. Things should go with a bit more ease in that form.

Sorcs have nothing that really keeps melee off them in a fight. A magblade can keep Cripple immobilize and gain Major Expedition in order to stay at range all while applying a DoT.

Based on the sorc kit, the class is meant to rely more on zoning than control. Mines offers defensive (passive) zoning and Boundless (seems) like it is meant to offer offensive (active) zoning, in a very loose sense of the word. Streak just isn't enough if you consider the cost increase and cast

Placing resource management on this skill would still require slotting Mines in order to compensate for weaker shields and 4% still wouldn't be enough to invalidate Dark Deal/reliance on sustain sets. This skill needs to do enough so that Mines/Dark Deal isn't necessary.

On top of what it does now, applying Magicka Steal on hit or Snare removal and Major Expedition on hit for 2.5 seconds with a 5 second cooldown would be the kind of magnitude needed to both justify a skill slot and actually benefit the class.