The "fix" for in-combat skill changes goes too far

code65536

From the first week's patch notes:

Fixed an issue where you could add or remove abilities on your ability bar while you were in combat.

Originally: You could not edit your skill bar while in combat, but there were two exceptions:

1. If you did not participate in combat for a period of time (i.e., if you took no damage and dealt no damage), you could change your abilities. E.g., in a trial, you might run off to a corner of the room, avoid taking damage for a little while, and then make adjustments. In the overland, you could kite an enemy that's chasing you, and after not taking any hits for a while, you could adjust your abilities. In both cases, you are still technically in combat (if you open your skills window, there will be the pulsing red border around your screen), but you are allowed to change abilities if you effectively left combat by avoiding participation in combat.
2. If you are dead, you can always change your abilities (if you are in a group and the rest of the group is in combat around you, then you will remain in combat even while dead).

What got broken: In the Wolfhunter patch, the combat ability change restrictions all went away. You could change abilities in combat even if you have recently took damage or dealt damage and are still alive. This needed to be fixed.

What is currently on the PTS: The "fix" on the PTS, however, does not return the game to the original behavior. It goes much further and eliminates two the exceptions that were originally there. Now, if you are in a dungeon or trial, dying will not allow you to make adjustments to your bar--the entire group must wipe. It's also no longer possible to avoid taking/dealing damage for a period of time to gain an opportunity to change your abilities.

Why this is a problem: The original behavior respected the spirit of the no-changes-in-combat rule. It allowed changes if you were technically in combat but were not really in combat because you had disengaged or died. Death, in particular, should let you change abilities: on the PTS currently, if you died and decided that you need to change your bar to avoid future deaths like that, you have to ask your group to wipe and reset the entire fight. Also, in a game where "stuck in combat" bugs are not uncommon, being able to change abilities when you were effectively out of combat was a nice reprieve from the effects of those bugs.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Why can't we just go back to the way it was originally? Do you really intend for this fix to go well beyond what actually got broken?

Merlin13KAGL

Agree wholeheartedly, gear change, as well. "Group" in combat and personal in-combat should be separate.

You're not in combat because something happens to be aware of your presence, you're in combat when you hit or take a hit.

Your entire group shouldn't have to reset because a gear or skill change didn't swap over properly.

Feanor

It’s a problem in PvP with the very common stuck in combat issues as well, and changing the quickslot items often is affected as well.

PapaWeeb

Agree, I can see this being frustrating for PvP players, I like how it is now.

God knows why I'll be stuck in combat for minutes after leaving it, or even after dying, and considering I swap rapids on and off my bar this is gonna be hell

Kanar

When I saw this patch note I knew it would be a frustrating change. Hopefully they listen but I doubt it.

Zer0oo

What about rapids in pvp can i still unslot it when someone did hit me? BTW do warden still get randomly put in combat?

In general i do not like the change, it happened quite often that i want to change a skill in pve because i forgot to slot it and my grp is already in combat.

Nestor

This does need to be like before, at least in the cases of character death.

GreenHere

+1 vote for restoring the previous behavior. What's with all these unnecessary changes, ZOS?

_Ahala_

So basically I need to decide what gear and abilities to use on my warden for the whole next patch before it comes out... news flash zos... warden still gets stuck in combat out of nowhere for extended periods of time

Joy_Division

This change needs to be reverted to the situation the OP is talking about. The "in combat" bug has not been fixed in PvP and what's on the PTS will create needless frustration.

Cuthceol

possible to go in combat stood in your alliance base camp in cyrodiil while ungrouped, which is impossible without broken code, at this point it's safe to say it's not getting fixed
either they don't know what's causing it - because they haven't allocated enough resources to tracking the problem down or they know what the problem is but it's too much trouble to fix

qbit

Why do bad dudes in overland chase you while doing damage, then as soon as you do damage, they holster their weapon and run off. Immune to damage and not targetable. It’s just dumb. Genuine question on the subject of combat mechanics. Is it intended? I mean, they shouldn’t be able to keep hitting me with ranged attacks until I fall off horse if I can’t turn around and kill them.

SodanTok

Simple. Even if ZoS believes those situations arent welcomed they NEED to keep this until they fix the in combat bug.

And I am not talking about bug that some players from time to time experience issue where they are kept in combat for a minute after it ended. I am talking about the situations where one gets stuck in combat for literally several minutes (going as far as 10 - then i usually just give up and suicide) and it happens constantly.

TheYKcid

This is going to be horrible if it goes live. Why not just revert the behaviour to pre-Wolfhunter? There was nothing wrong with it then.

I was also pretty baffled by ZOS' decision to include the bug in the first PTS notes. Why make it common knowledge for everyone to exploit? They did the same thing with the Scattershot exploit in the previous PTS.