The Scribes of Fate DLC and Update 37 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

Make Heavy Armor users significantly slower

Excaltic
Excaltic
✭✭✭
ZOS should make Heavy Armor users at -least- 20% slower in movement speed then medium/light armor users.

- It is logical that Heavy Armor should be a -lot- slower
- Heavy Armor currently has no downsides
  • ezio45
    ezio45
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    a damage penalty (that only applies to dmg not heals) would be nice.

    the sustain increase from light and medium isnt worth it. looking into builds for light armor next patch i was within 200 spell recovery in heavy from light and dropping both shields gave me room for ele drain so my spell pen was actually better lol light 4884 major breech 5280 lol
  • Baconlad
    Baconlad
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Welp...since we're getting into a lore-ish reasons for needing heavy...consider.

    Illusionist have spells available that completely negate the sound of their feet. Even while running. There for reasonable to think there are spells that would envelope you from sight and sound...no matter how loud you may be.

    Second, a light armored finger-wiggler would not be focused on physical prowess, considering they would focus on things like studying the inner working of dwemer ruins or the stars or some other academic. They wouldn't be very fast either...even naked, unless they had a spell for it!

    Medium users choose to use the armor type that would encourage their physical strengths. Allowing fast, honed movements...

    So let's think about it. Heavy users are slow. Unless they drink a speed pot, use a spell. Light users are slow....Unless they drink a speed pot or use a spell...

    Med users run at the same speed...Unless they use a speed pot or use a spell...and then they get stupid fast sprint speed

    Ur issue is not lore, or "reasons". It's swift...and even then I don't think it's a bad trade off. Speed for damage.

    There may be an argument for swift here but leave heavy armor out of it. Some have suggested a 5% per jewel speed increase, with an extra 5% per jewel to sprint speed. Slowing them down in combat but still allowing them the speed for defensive resets....either way. Leave heavy out of it
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Yeah nah.

    Heavy for mag builds is a direct loss. There is a reason the meta for mag is light. Light is better damage, better sustain, and comparable survivability on live with shields. (Shields are weaker outnumbered, but bleed/defile builds rip through heavy and harness is near free 1v1 vs many classes.)
    Blanket nerfing it more would completely remove it from use, whilst heavy stam (the one with better base speed, sustain and damage) would still be strong. Remember the constitution/wrath nerfs? Did little to fix the problem.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Maryal
    Maryal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Heavy armor doesn't need to be slower than it already is. That being said, I also don't think a heavy armor build (5 or more pieces of heavy armor) should be both tanky and speedy (except to the extent that speed is one of the set bonuses of a particular heavy armor set).

    I don't know what the solution is, but I don't think it's fair to heavy armor users to, in essence, give them a constant snare just because they are a heavy armor build.
    Edited by Maryal on October 1, 2018 2:07AM
  • efster
    efster
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am ok with anything that will kill the PVP heavy armour meta that's causing non-DK PVE tanks to get nerfed every time anyone on the dev team so much as looks our way.
    Edited by efster on October 1, 2018 4:24AM
    AD is the best looking faction. I don't make the rules, I just enforce them.
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ezio45 wrote: »
    a damage penalty (that only applies to dmg not heals) would be nice.

    the sustain increase from light and medium isnt worth it. looking into builds for light armor next patch i was within 200 spell recovery in heavy from light and dropping both shields gave me room for ele drain so my spell pen was actually better lol light 4884 major breech 5280 lol

    i think a dmg penalty is not the way to go. heavyarmor brawler builds are an archetype as old as rpgs are.

    personally i´d go with a 15% movespeed penalty and 25% sprint cost increase?
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Tonturri
    Tonturri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why should heavy have downsides when no other armor type does? Just balance stuff out if need be. No need for more convoluted dithering with this or that adding a hindering passive.
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Heavy does have a lot of downside for mag. Stam have damage bonus sets is why they seemingly 'don't have downside'.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Heavy does have a lot of downside for mag. Stam have damage bonus sets is why they seemingly 'don't have downside'.

    The problem is gameplay generally favors being tanky over being able to deal dmg.
    Yes light and heavy are closer than medium and heavy - but for most situations being tanky is still preferable over being able to deal a tiny amount more dmg for the average player (imo).
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Nicko_Lps
    Nicko_Lps
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Being a heavy armor stamina DB tank is PRO.

    At least, the 3 tanks that chase me around keeps+resources trying to perfectly focus 3 ultis on me when im alone with no heals+buffs just with my shields, ragewhisper me after loosing their chance to 3v1 me on how noob sorc i am not 1v3 them and i streak back to the keep like a coward and not get 2 dawnbreakers+Leap on the face like a man.


    After many of this kind of whispers from PRO DB TANKS i think they deserve their high mobility + high dmg while being tanks because they are PRO as they forced me to believe.
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Folks, I can understand PvP perspective, but be careful not to make PvE gameplay even less fun for heavy armor users. Tanks are already rare species, what with how few people want to play them. ^^ Making their life even worse won't do miracles to the role popularity. ^^
  • zyk
    zyk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Feanor wrote: »
    Running heavy for mag means

    - no cost reduction (10%+)
    - No recovery bonus (20%+)
    - No penetration (4884)
    - No spell crit (2191)

    The spell resistance loss is negligible. That’s a pretty big sustain and damage loss in the overall picture.

    For everything lost there is something gained. In addition to the heavy armor passives that are gained, if memory serves 7 light provides approximately 11% mitigation and 7 heavy provides approximately 22% mitigation via Physical and Spell Resistance on the individual pieces. The Resolve passive adds up to 2534 (3.8% mitigation) Spell and Physical Resistance to that.

    The sustain loss is compensated for in different ways:

    - Because more damage is mitigated, less healing is required and, in general, less time is spent on the defensive, saving resources.
    - The Rapid Mending passive increases healing received by 8%, increasing the efficiency of heals; bigger heals can mean fewer heals.
    - The Constitution passive passive provides up to 756 Magicka and Stamina every 4 seconds in addition to increasing health recovery by up to 28% -- which enables fewer resources to be spent on healing.
    - The Revitalize passive increases the Magicka or Stamina returned from heavy attacks by 25%.

    On top of all of that, the Juggernaut passive increases max health by up to 14%.

    Because the heavy armor Mage has more health and takes less damage, it is able to stay on offense more often. When I experimented with heavy, I noticed the loss of penetration and crit, but I barely felt the difference in sustain using a 5-1-1 setup.

    I find light magicka builds far more fun to play, but I think heavy armor can be significantly better -- and easier to play as health doesn't drop as quickly, it is easier to survive and to time combos while taking damage.
  • Streega
    Streega
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Honestly, I don't get it. Why don't you leave all the skills/stats/morphs alone and change Champion Points instead? This is the only way you can balance PvP without slaughtering PvE. Make some of the skills in CP tree PvP/PvE only. Wanna go straight from trial to Cyro? Change your gear and CP with 2 clicks (sorry console friends, you need to click bit more), and bam!, ready.
    Maybe I'm talking nonsense - sorry I'm just a casual, not a pro/elite, but this seems the best solution for me.
    ⊂( ̄(工) ̄)⊃ Don't-Care-Bear ⊂( ̄(工) ̄)⊃
    PC EU "House Tertia" - Friendly Guild for Mature Folks (housetertia.com)
    PC EU "Priests of Hircine" - Awesome Guild for Friendly Werewolves (free bites!)
    Member of "Guild Masters United"
    Master Angler
  • Feanor
    Feanor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    zyk wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    Running heavy for mag means

    - no cost reduction (10%+)
    - No recovery bonus (20%+)
    - No penetration (4884)
    - No spell crit (2191)

    The spell resistance loss is negligible. That’s a pretty big sustain and damage loss in the overall picture.

    For everything lost there is something gained. In addition to the heavy armor passives that are gained, if memory serves 7 light provides approximately 11% mitigation and 7 heavy provides approximately 22% mitigation via Physical and Spell Resistance on the individual pieces. The Resolve passive adds up to 2534 (3.8% mitigation) Spell and Physical Resistance to that.

    The sustain loss is compensated for in different ways:

    - Because more damage is mitigated, less healing is required and, in general, less time is spent on the defensive, saving resources.
    - The Rapid Mending passive increases healing received by 8%, increasing the efficiency of heals; bigger heals can mean fewer heals.
    - The Constitution passive passive provides up to 756 Magicka and Stamina every 4 seconds in addition to increasing health recovery by up to 28% -- which enables fewer resources to be spent on healing.
    - The Revitalize passive increases the Magicka or Stamina returned from heavy attacks by 25%.

    On top of all of that, the Juggernaut passive increases max health by up to 14%.

    Because the heavy armor Mage has more health and takes less damage, it is able to stay on offense more often. When I experimented with heavy, I noticed the loss of penetration and crit, but I barely felt the difference in sustain using a 5-1-1 setup.

    I find light magicka builds far more fun to play, but I think heavy armor can be significantly better -- and easier to play as health doesn't drop as quickly, it is easier to survive and to time combos while taking damage.

    Sure. But if I want to play a heavy armour Brawler Type that stacks HP and HP Regen I can do that much better on any other class.
    Edited by Feanor on October 1, 2018 9:20AM
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 45 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial Necromancer
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Vidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDK
    Marquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - Stormproof
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 1600+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • Stibbons
    Stibbons
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    umagon wrote: »
    It would not be that accurate if heavy armor was greatly slower. Historically plate armor had a high degree of mobility and trained soldiers could run, jump and even climb with it on without much difficulty. Most of the armor was about 50lb for a full set not including the shield or weapons. That 50lb was distributed evenly on the body. The joints were made in a fashion to allow for as much range of motion as possible. The common concept of plated armor being extremely heavy is just inaccurate. For most of those who put on a full set in real life and think it is, they normally are out of shape and/or not trained to fight with it on.



    Yes but people just cannot run 100 meters under 10 seconds with platemail ja jumb 6 meters with plate. Never mind. This is a game and slower fat platemail dudes/ladies should be slower for balance.
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Heavy doesn't need a nerf but light armor and medium armor need some buffs or at least no nerfs. They promised light and medium armor some buffs and instead we got nerfs which they sold us as buffs. Shields scaling with resis, Healing Ward initial heal removed, Evasion removed... the patch is totally not favouring heavy armor...
    I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.
  • eso_nya
    eso_nya
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Make a naked fistfighting campaign.

    ot: Whos out of breath faster: The guy who trains in heavy armor or the guy who sits in a comfy chair reading books?
  • WuffyCerulei
    WuffyCerulei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    It would be interesting if they added weight to the armors. Like light armor would be nothing, medium armor not much (it's just leather it's not weigh much), and heavy armor slowing you down. But they'd have to approach with something like Skyrim, passive/perk-wise, where if you level it up to max, it'd weigh nothing.
    For the love of Kyne, buff sorc.

    PC NA
    CP 2000+
    Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Warlord - Flawless Conqueror
    vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HM/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR
    Falls-With-Stars - Argonian Magicka Templar - Former Empress
    Dragon-in-Shadows - Argonian Nightblade Tank - Shadow Breaker
    Eossos - Khajiit Magicka Templar Healer
    Death-Singer - Argonian Magicka Nightblade
    Dark-Star - Khajiit Magicka Dragonknight
    Ice-Dancer - Khajiit Magicka Warden
    Tsalli-ko - Khajiit Stamina Sorcerer
    The-Gold-Experience - Khajiit Magicka Necromancer
    Khiiral - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Gotta love these forums nowadays. Not so long ago it was full of "please buff X, Y and Z". Now I open the recent tab and I see:

    -nerf swift
    -nerf FM
    -nerf heavy
    -nerf sorcs
    -nerf cloak
    -nerf DW
    -nerf log in rewards
    -nerf nerfs

    Your agenda for permasnaring heavy won't do *** once you're into gap closer range. Or do you guys aim at being so much faster than heavy armor setups that it becomes impossible for them to reach, catch and damage you? And you seem to have forgotten how littered this place was with "stand your ground isn't viable, we need to become more mobile" or "elder snares online" comments before swift and the nerfs to snares.
    Obviously the devs are on snare immunity on FM at the moment. My guess is that we will just come full circle again. Remember how fun it was back then, imagine how much fun it will be when your nerf show comes true.
  • Mettaricana
    Mettaricana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    My only gripe for heavy is the lack of dmg i mean what part of heavy armor drops dps give em a bonus heavy attak dmg using heavy arms and a dodge roll that hurts
  • Nicko_Lps
    Nicko_Lps
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gotta love these forums nowadays. Not so long ago it was full of "please buff X, Y and Z". Now I open the recent tab and I see:

    -nerf swift
    -nerf FM
    -nerf heavy
    -nerf sorcs
    -nerf cloak
    -nerf DW
    -nerf log in rewards
    -nerf nerfs

    Your agenda for permasnaring heavy won't do *** once you're into gap closer range. Or do you guys aim at being so much faster than heavy armor setups that it becomes impossible for them to reach, catch and damage you? And you seem to have forgotten how littered this place was with "stand your ground isn't viable, we need to become more mobile" or "elder snares online" comments before swift and the nerfs to snares.
    Obviously the devs are on snare immunity on FM at the moment. My guess is that we will just come full circle again. Remember how fun it was back then, imagine how much fun it will be when your nerf show comes true.

    Yet somehow they always accept the nerf sorc threats while ignoring the rest :)

  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Biro123 wrote: »
    So if anything, to be realistic, I'd suggest a slower sprint speed, and a hit to recovery, but, to be realistic, the protection should be massively improved.

    But isn't a boon to regen and sprint speed on medium resulting in the exact same thing? Oh wait, those are already there.
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on October 1, 2018 12:40PM
  • usmguy1234
    usmguy1234
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem isn't just as simple as movement speed. What does movement speed do for anyone if they hit like a wet noodle? Look at how many heavy sets give 500+ weapon damage vs medium sets. There is quite a big disparity there.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
    Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
    Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
    Eirius- Altmer Magdk
    Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar

    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

Sign In or Register to comment.