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Make Heavy Armor users significantly slower

  • SilverWF
    SilverWF
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    ZOS went wrong with the overall design of armor since the release.

    Heavy armor provides much more resists, more health with the downside of lower mag penetration and bigger skills cost.
    This is significant downsides in the PVE, where fights are long, but not really - in PVP, where fights are shorter.
    But, additional resists, HP and some pretty neat heavy sets (Ravager, Fury, Veiled etc..) combined provides even an advantage vs light and medium armor users.

    This is just dumb.
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  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    No.

    You cannot nerf heavy armor JUST because it outperform medium armor.

    Magicka Heavy armor character make real choice, If you go heavy you loose sustain and damage for survivability. If you go light you have better sustain and better damage for less survivability.

    You cannot nerf a mix armor because one side is overperforming.
  • mojomood
    mojomood
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    No. Heavy armor mobility is really only a thing for stam with Swift+FM+Speed pot

    It is a thing without swift too. The issue of sustain in heavy has largely been countered by the increase in CP and sustain via heavy attacks. A sprinting heavy armor user in 5 Heavy/2 Medium using Speed pots is at 1.76 and cap is 2.0. No swift needed.
  • Nicko_Lps
    Nicko_Lps
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    Rex-Umbra wrote: »
    People blame heavy on any one they can't kill. Heavy has been nerfed a dozen times its had all damage removed and sustain cut by two thirds also lost all block bonuses.

    Can you mention those dozen of heavy armor nerfs please?
  • Lake
    Lake
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    On the PVP-related ESO Lives, every single ZOS development team member goes Heavy. They know it's superior.
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    Rex-Umbra wrote: »
    People blame heavy on any one they can't kill. Heavy has been nerfed a dozen times its had all damage removed and sustain cut by two thirds also lost all block bonuses.

    It lost the Wrath passive. Ravager et al. are still alive and kicking.

    Main characters:
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    All chars 50 @ CP 1100+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • mojomood
    mojomood
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    Gotta love these forums nowadays. Not so long ago it was full of "please buff X, Y and Z". Now I open the recent tab and I see:

    -nerf swift
    -nerf FM
    -nerf heavy
    -nerf sorcs
    -nerf cloak
    -nerf DW
    -nerf log in rewards
    -nerf nerfs

    Your agenda for permasnaring heavy won't do *** once you're into gap closer range. Or do you guys aim at being so much faster than heavy armor setups that it becomes impossible for them to reach, catch and damage you? And you seem to have forgotten how littered this place was with "stand your ground isn't viable, we need to become more mobile" or "elder snares online" comments before swift and the nerfs to snares.
    Obviously the devs are on snare immunity on FM at the moment. My guess is that we will just come full circle again. Remember how fun it was back then, imagine how much fun it will be when your nerf show comes true.

    Heavy gets blamed for all the mitigation sources, which isn't fair. Defile got nerfed which means health regen and healing are stronger. There's a lot of places to mitigate, but heavy alone won't save someone. However, heavy is unique in that it passively builds the biggest source of mitigation. When you add one or two weapon damage procs, get extra sustain from meditate, mobility from pots, and snare immunity from FM, you have a really good build that is very hard to kill, does very good damage, and can sustain.

    Stand your ground does work 1v1, maybe 1v2 or 3, but Cyrodiil is all about the zerg now.

    Try being a magblade in light without self-buffed major sorcery without speed pots without a source of snare removal. That's permasnare. Very few OW staff magblades out there.

    On the flip side, Heavy Armor Stamblade with Master's axes and the new Major Evasion is gonna be even better.
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    umagon wrote: »
    It would not be that accurate if heavy armor was greatly slower. Historically plate armor had a high degree of mobility and trained soldiers could run, jump and even climb with it on without much difficulty. Most of the armor was about 50lb for a full set not including the shield or weapons. That 50lb was distributed evenly on the body. The joints were made in a fashion to allow for as much range of motion as possible. The common concept of plated armor being extremely heavy is just inaccurate. For most of those who put on a full set in real life and think it is, they normally are out of shape and/or not trained to fight with it on.



    Really? So you're telling me that the individual wearing that armor would not be any faster if he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt?

    Yeah heavy armor should be 20% slower. It would make sense.

    I also don't get why medium sprints faster, but doesn't move faster?
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    Daus wrote: »
    umagon wrote: »
    It would not be that accurate if heavy armor was greatly slower. Historically plate armor had a high degree of mobility and trained soldiers could run, jump and even climb with it on without much difficulty. Most of the armor was about 50lb for a full set not including the shield or weapons. That 50lb was distributed evenly on the body. The joints were made in a fashion to allow for as much range of motion as possible. The common concept of plated armor being extremely heavy is just inaccurate. For most of those who put on a full set in real life and think it is, they normally are out of shape and/or not trained to fight with it on.



    Really? So you're telling me that the individual wearing that armor would not be any faster if he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt?

    Yeah heavy armor should be 20% slower. It would make sense.

    I also don't get why medium sprints faster, but doesn't move faster?

    Why Magicka Heavy armor build should be punished because STAMINA heavy armor is better in all areas than medium ?
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    umagon wrote: »
    It would not be that accurate if heavy armor was greatly slower. Historically plate armor had a high degree of mobility and trained soldiers could run, jump and even climb with it on without much difficulty. Most of the armor was about 50lb for a full set not including the shield or weapons. That 50lb was distributed evenly on the body. The joints were made in a fashion to allow for as much range of motion as possible. The common concept of plated armor being extremely heavy is just inaccurate. For most of those who put on a full set in real life and think it is, they normally are out of shape and/or not trained to fight with it on.



    Really? So you're telling me that the individual wearing that armor would not be any faster if he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt?

    Yeah heavy armor should be 20% slower. It would make sense.

    I also don't get why medium sprints faster, but doesn't move faster?

    Why Magicka Heavy armor build should be punished because STAMINA heavy armor is better in all areas than medium ?

    Don't want to move slower then wear light or medium. This is how it should be. I don't care if you're magicka or stamina.
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    Daus wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    umagon wrote: »
    It would not be that accurate if heavy armor was greatly slower. Historically plate armor had a high degree of mobility and trained soldiers could run, jump and even climb with it on without much difficulty. Most of the armor was about 50lb for a full set not including the shield or weapons. That 50lb was distributed evenly on the body. The joints were made in a fashion to allow for as much range of motion as possible. The common concept of plated armor being extremely heavy is just inaccurate. For most of those who put on a full set in real life and think it is, they normally are out of shape and/or not trained to fight with it on.



    Really? So you're telling me that the individual wearing that armor would not be any faster if he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt?

    Yeah heavy armor should be 20% slower. It would make sense.

    I also don't get why medium sprints faster, but doesn't move faster?

    Why Magicka Heavy armor build should be punished because STAMINA heavy armor is better in all areas than medium ?

    Don't want to move slower then wear light or medium. This is how it should be. I don't care if you're magicka or stamina.

    Where is your logic behind this ?
  • eso_nya
    eso_nya
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    Nicko_Lps wrote: »
    Rex-Umbra wrote: »
    People blame heavy on any one they can't kill. Heavy has been nerfed a dozen times its had all damage removed and sustain cut by two thirds also lost all block bonuses.

    Can you mention those dozen of heavy armor nerfs please?

    Most recent:
    3 of the passives kicked the bucket. (wrath doesnt exist anymore)
    u cant use shuffle or harness with heavy anymore
    blackrose and 7th legions kicked the bucket.

    Cant stand when ppl want stuff that is available to anyone nerfed, just because it outperforms their awesome homemade rp-build.
    Edited by eso_nya on October 1, 2018 5:13PM
  • ZeroXFF
    ZeroXFF
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    Daus wrote: »
    umagon wrote: »
    It would not be that accurate if heavy armor was greatly slower. Historically plate armor had a high degree of mobility and trained soldiers could run, jump and even climb with it on without much difficulty. Most of the armor was about 50lb for a full set not including the shield or weapons. That 50lb was distributed evenly on the body. The joints were made in a fashion to allow for as much range of motion as possible. The common concept of plated armor being extremely heavy is just inaccurate. For most of those who put on a full set in real life and think it is, they normally are out of shape and/or not trained to fight with it on.



    Really? So you're telling me that the individual wearing that armor would not be any faster if he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt?

    Yeah heavy armor should be 20% slower. It would make sense.

    I also don't get why medium sprints faster, but doesn't move faster?

    It already is, ffs. Medium gets sprint cost reduction and sprint speed bonus, and light is getting a sprint cost reduction in murkmire too. Heavy already is the armor type with the slowest speed, nerfing it any more will just result in even more wipes in PvE when tanks refuse to sprint because they need their stam for blocking and silver leash the moment they reach the next trash pack.

    /thread
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Daus wrote: »
    umagon wrote: »
    It would not be that accurate if heavy armor was greatly slower. Historically plate armor had a high degree of mobility and trained soldiers could run, jump and even climb with it on without much difficulty. Most of the armor was about 50lb for a full set not including the shield or weapons. That 50lb was distributed evenly on the body. The joints were made in a fashion to allow for as much range of motion as possible. The common concept of plated armor being extremely heavy is just inaccurate. For most of those who put on a full set in real life and think it is, they normally are out of shape and/or not trained to fight with it on.



    Really? So you're telling me that the individual wearing that armor would not be any faster if he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt?

    Yeah heavy armor should be 20% slower. It would make sense.

    I also don't get why medium sprints faster, but doesn't move faster?

    Why Magicka Heavy armor build should be punished because STAMINA heavy armor is better in all areas than medium ?

    Don't want to move slower then wear light or medium. This is how it should be. I don't care if you're magicka or stamina.

    Where is your logic behind this ?

    Physics.

    Mass X Gravity = Weight
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    Medium and light armor should take twice the damage of heavy armor

    Plates stop swords while leather is cutted.

    You see how it's stupid to think like that in a MMO ?
    Edited by Aedaryl on October 1, 2018 5:24PM
  • Suddwrath
    Suddwrath
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    I would rather not think about tanking the twins in vMaw with 20% reduced speed. No thank you.
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  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Feanor wrote: »
    Running heavy for mag means

    - no cost reduction (10%+)
    - No recovery bonus (20%+)
    - No penetration (4884)
    - No spell crit (2191)

    The spell resistance loss is negligible. That’s a pretty big sustain and damage loss in the overall picture.

    And even with that, mDKs are somewhat forced to run Heavy
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    Running heavy for mag means

    - no cost reduction (10%+)
    - No recovery bonus (20%+)
    - No penetration (4884)
    - No spell crit (2191)

    The spell resistance loss is negligible. That’s a pretty big sustain and damage loss in the overall picture.

    And even with that, mDKs are somewhat forced to run Heavy

    Not at all, magdk meta swiched to light armor.
  • Strider__Roshin
    Strider__Roshin
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    Running heavy for mag means

    - no cost reduction (10%+)
    - No recovery bonus (20%+)
    - No penetration (4884)
    - No spell crit (2191)

    The spell resistance loss is negligible. That’s a pretty big sustain and damage loss in the overall picture.

    And even with that, mDKs are somewhat forced to run Heavy

    It's better to run light on a magDK.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    Running heavy for mag means

    - no cost reduction (10%+)
    - No recovery bonus (20%+)
    - No penetration (4884)
    - No spell crit (2191)

    The spell resistance loss is negligible. That’s a pretty big sustain and damage loss in the overall picture.

    And even with that, mDKs are somewhat forced to run Heavy

    Not at all, magdk meta swiched to light armor.

    Until shields become crap...
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    Running heavy for mag means

    - no cost reduction (10%+)
    - No recovery bonus (20%+)
    - No penetration (4884)
    - No spell crit (2191)

    The spell resistance loss is negligible. That’s a pretty big sustain and damage loss in the overall picture.

    And even with that, mDKs are somewhat forced to run Heavy

    Not at all, magdk meta swiched to light armor.

    Until shields become crap...

    Shields Will not be crap and certainly not for a mag DK.
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Heavy armor need some kind of buff not nerf.

    Some heavy armor sets are problem that need proper treatment!
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    Running heavy for mag means

    - no cost reduction (10%+)
    - No recovery bonus (20%+)
    - No penetration (4884)
    - No spell crit (2191)

    The spell resistance loss is negligible. That’s a pretty big sustain and damage loss in the overall picture.

    And even with that, mDKs are somewhat forced to run Heavy

    Not at all, magdk meta swiched to light armor.

    Until shields become crap...

    Shields Will not be crap and certainly not for a mag DK.

    Well, I hope so, yesterday I tried a cheese build using lit staff, + Torugs + Knight Slayer. I called it "Oblivion Knight". Very annoying.
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • idk
    idk
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    Excaltic wrote: »
    ZOS should make Heavy Armor users at -least- 20% slower in movement speed then medium/light armor users.

    - It is logical that Heavy Armor should be a -lot- slower
    - Heavy Armor currently has no downsides

    1. it is a fantasy game so logic in such things does not translate .
    2. If we are going that route then MA and HA cannot swim. One has armor that will bind to much and the other will sink.

    Regardless of where someone's opinion is on this matter, HA will never move slower in this game.
  • BalticBlues
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    Excaltic wrote: »
    - It is logical that Heavy Armor should be a -lot- slower
    Ok, I take a speed hit, but then your little dagger also should not scratch me anymore, as in reality. And btw: We also have to remove Cloaking then when we are at it, because there is no scientific logic at all in Cloaking, sorry.
  • Sevn
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    Screw tanks huh? Just nerf heavy so you can get more kills to feed the pvp beast in you huh? Say goodbye to any group looking for speed runs. Heavy is used for more than pvp ya know.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
    -Hemingway
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    So, with the changes to major expedition buffs and FM heavy will have a harder time to stay fast. Is that what you wanted? :trollface:
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