The Case for Necromancy

BuddyAces

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

You can have a necro class when I get my g'damn barbarian/warrior class.

So looks like we both screwed.

Every stam class is a warrior class.

Sorc class is a necro if we want to use that logic.

Sorc class has no necromantic spells. All classes can use weapon skills which is all a warrior would have. You have no argument here.

No.

Imperial_Voice

Red_Feather wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

Thrain wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

Make it like Vampire Lord from skyrim.

You have to hide being a necromancer or you get bounty/heat.

It would be really difficult, but fun to make pve builds that use necromancy but can get by not using it when witnesses are around.

In teso its allowed to be a ww or vamp so i guess beeing a necromancer would be allowed as well

I was just thinking about how interesting it would be if being a necromancer was similar to doing dark brotherhood contracts. You have to worry about witnesses and bounty and heat.

But Necromancy ISNT ILLEGAL. Thats like...60% of the main post.

It would be more fun if it was though. A minion master skill line that is quite different in how it interacts with the world and how the world reacts to it. The game could use that instead of more mere summoning skills to add to existing summoning skills.

You didnt read the post at all did you? Necromancy is not a pet summoning school of magic in Elder Scrolls

Red_Feather

Sorry I didn't read it all.

Imperial_Voice

Red_Feather wrote: »

Sorry I didn't read it all.

Thats okay bud lol

rfennell_ESO

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

The Case for Necromancy

The case has largely been dissuaded by the "pets are garbage" argument.

The solution lies in Dark Age of Camelot's Necromancer.

In DAOC, the Necromancer class was a pet class that became the pet. The caster became invisible/ethereal and channeled into their summoned pet and casted through and controlled the pet. It had a limited range of operation from the hidden Necromancer and when you killed the pet the Necromancer became vulnerable. The caster themselves, when not in pet form, was very weak and had little abilities.

I think it would fit in nicely in ESO. Obviously some things would have to be different, but the overall vision of that class would work.

Not at all how Necromancy works in the Elder Scrolls universe however. Still a cool idea.

I don't think they get past Necromancy=pet class. Even if the lore isn't of that nature. It's at least a solution and through the summoned pet lore based necromancy can be cast.

SilverIce58

At first I more or less didn't care about having a necromancer class, but now I'm all for it.

Also, Meridia would definitely work with a necromancer character if it meant sticking it to Molag Bal. I mean, just think, necromancers generally work with Bal, and to have one fighting against Bal instead of for him would definitely be a punch in the gut. And Meridia would take that in stride, all the way.

Silver_Strider

Inb4 they take Minor Heroism from base game to make it Necromancer's "unique" group buff.

Osteos

I have no issue with a Necromancer class being added but, yes there is always a but , I would like to see them fill in some missing play-styles first with a viable ranged stamina class and a magicka melee class. Yes to more classes and more weapons!

Vanthras79

Are we talking:

(1) a new class?

(2) a new skill line?

or (3) the ability to bump outdated threads?

Vanthras79

What about Necromancy and how its viewed in Argonia (aka. Black Marsh?)

SilverIce58

Vanthras79 wrote: »

What about Necromancy and how its viewed in Argonia (aka. Black Marsh?)

Black Marsh[edit]

Corpses decay rapidly in Black Marsh, making it very difficult for necromancers to operate. This problem is compounded by disease, militant tribal Argonians, and the many other difficulties presented by life in Black Marsh. A few Sload necromancers have purportedly operated in Black Marsh with success, though even they stayed near the coast.[20]

From the uesp.

Imperial_Voice

Vanthras79 wrote: »

What about Necromancy and how its viewed in Argonia (aka. Black Marsh?)

Whoop. Missed that one but as someone pointed out Necromancey isnt really a thing in Black Marsh because corpses decay far too quickly.

idk

LOL, I guess it is time for another necro thread.

First, OP has to understand and realize that Zos has only added one new class since the game launched and it was a class they had already started on before the game launched. Umm, that means the chance for a necro class is so much further off.

Second, I see what you did there. Turn that necromancers are an evil scourge across tamriel during this era as seen by how many necromancers we must defeat and tried to make it false by saying we all say it is the #1 enemy. Nope. #2 would be more appropriate due to Manimarco and all the many necromancers across the land causing trouble.

Third. All that lore you posted, unless it is from this era it is meaningless. I did see the souces for the lore is conveniently left out.

More importantly, OP has not even tried to make the case to Zos which without that the entire OP and thread is moot. Convincing Zos to add another class is paramount before even convincing them to make it a necromancer.

Imperial_Voice

idk wrote: »

LOL, I guess it is time for another necro thread.

First, OP has to understand and realize that Zos has only added one new class since the game launched and it was a class they had already started on before the game launched. Umm, that means the chance for a necro class is so much further off.

Second, I see what you did there. Turn that necromancers are an evil scourge across tamriel during this era as seen by how many necromancers we must defeat and tried to make it false by saying we all say it is the #1 enemy. Nope. #2 would be more appropriate due to Manimarco and all the many necromancers across the land causing trouble.

Third. All that lore you posted, unless it is from this era it is meaningless. I did see the souces for the lore is conveniently left out.

More importantly, OP has not even tried to make the case to Zos which without that the entire OP and thread is moot. Convincing Zos to add another class is paramount before even convincing them to make it a necromancer.

Got it. Everything you dont like is bullcrap even with proof ( which you clearly didnt read) Good for you, you win the right to feel special on the internet.

rfennell_ESO

I think there is plenty of room for a Necromancer class in the game.

Furthermore I think it's something that many players want.

idk

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

idk wrote: »

LOL, I guess it is time for another necro thread.

First, OP has to understand and realize that Zos has only added one new class since the game launched and it was a class they had already started on before the game launched. Umm, that means the chance for a necro class is so much further off.

Second, I see what you did there. Turn that necromancers are an evil scourge across tamriel during this era as seen by how many necromancers we must defeat and tried to make it false by saying we all say it is the #1 enemy. Nope. #2 would be more appropriate due to Manimarco and all the many necromancers across the land causing trouble.

Third. All that lore you posted, unless it is from this era it is meaningless. I did see the souces for the lore is conveniently left out.

More importantly, OP has not even tried to make the case to Zos which without that the entire OP and thread is moot. Convincing Zos to add another class is paramount before even convincing them to make it a necromancer.

Got it. Everything you dont like is bullcrap even with proof ( which you clearly didnt read) Good for you, you win the right to feel special on the internet.

It does seem you are reflecting a little here.

I pointed out your points were flawed yet your best counterpoint was to try to insult me. I addressed your so called "proof" directly and much is called into question.

BTW, you created this thread for discussion and that discussion is not required to be in agreement. I suggest avoiding trying tp put others down as it often derails a thread.

Vanthras79

I am totally for a necromancy skill line

But I would also play a necromancer class. Perhaps they could have the offensive frost magic we all crave. Necromancers often use frost magic right?

Sigtric

It should be a world/guild skill line instead of a class

TheShadowScout

Vanthras79 wrote: »

Are we talking:

(1) a new class?

(2) a new skill line?

or (3) the ability to bump outdated threads?

...more like the general question of necromancy for player characters I presumed.

But I said my piece on the 1/2 question, I will always argue against any new classes, because unless and until they add class change tokens (which they are on record with an "not ever" statement), new classes are only enjoyable for new players, and very vexing to old hands, both for the "What, now I gotta make even more alts to enjoy this new class???" and moreso the "Why the [censored] [censored] was that [censored] class not [censored] avaiable back at [censored] launch, it would have so much more [censored] sense for that [censored] main/alt of mine..."
And vexing your customers is generally a bad idea if you want to sell them stuff around your game.

Thus I applaud things like the psijic skill line, and would love to see more of the sort, skill lines that can be picked up by any character, no matter if newly made or played since summer 2014. (though I would love it if there were more "either/or" choices with that, to further diversification when characters cannot poick "all", but have to choose between two options...)

As obvious, my favorite suggestion is my Class Morph Idea; and I would love to see necromnancy to become an optional specialization for sorcerors (due to the commection between them one can read in the lore)

But I could also see it as guild skill line as outlined in my prior post, which the game could also always use more of...

MaxJrFTW

There's are plenty of NPC in the game that are part of the pact, covenant, or dominion army, and they're necromancers. The whole lore argument against necromancers isn't even valid.

Vizikul

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Every stam class is a warrior class.

Yea.. my Warden Archer disagrees.

SydneyGrey

Plus, there's a part of the Ebonheart Pact quest-line (as I remember) where they discover that the Daggerfall Covenant army is using necromancy to raise undead soldiers to fight in the war. So ... according to that lore, at least one army was ok with using necromancy.

(I'm writing this from memory, so if I'm mistaken about which faction it is, please forgive me.)

Perashim

Very interesting read! I would love to play as a necromancer in the game (As I have always done in Morrowind, OBlivion, and Skyrim).

I mean, it seems like the base skills are already in the game, and didn't the Devs mention something about a "Dark Wizard" in one of their previous livestreams for Vvardenfall?

Imperial_Voice

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Plus, there's a part of the Ebonheart Pact quest-line (as I remember) where they discover that the Daggerfall Covenant army is using necromancy to raise undead soldiers to fight in the war. So ... according to that lore, at least one army was ok with using necromancy.

(I'm writing this from memory, so if I'm mistaken about which faction it is, please forgive me.)

The Stonefalls story features a portion where the player muat decide whether or not to enslave an army of Chimeri spirits and then you summon an Atronach made of flaming bone.

TiZzA93

@SydneyGrey in stonefalls upper left corner the covenant are using necromancy to fight the pact 🙂

TiZzA93

When making a new toon the class section has it layed out like there should be a 6th class also 2 heavy (dk/temp) 2 medium (nb/warden) 1 light (sorc) SOOOOO since necro suits light preview slot and there are a ton of necro skills already in game im pretty sure it would benefit zos for $$$ too lol

Xerikten

if the class has a different damage type then they will have to do a gear revamp. ie there are no disease / poison staves or useful sets.

if the class has no different damage types from the current sorc class then the spells must be really really unique and useful otherwise it is just a another sorc.

a new spell line isn't a option based on how the last one we got really suxed.

a LOT of work needs to be done imo for this to be a feasible class. perhaps that is why it hasn't been added yet.

Gythral

where do you want me to bury said case (ah sorry coffin)

dogman

I love the fact that everybody tries to use rather silly crutches to say no, this wouldn't work because XYZ. Necromancy isn't legal? Neither is Blood-Magic, however NBs seem to be acceptable in society. Sorcerers summon Daedra, that's also extremely taboo and illegal in many cultures, however you can run around with your matriarch and scamp wherever the hell you desire and nobody will tell you jack. There are classes that would be classified as illegal as per TES lore, however they perfectly allowed. TES lore is such a flimsy excuse in this scenario as ESO is so lore-breaking to start with.

Want more arguments for necromancy? The Mages guild has been studying it, infact Mannimarco was allowed to study it by the Psijics themselves because its still a school of magic. There are sloads in this game for Arkay's sake, they basically are necromancers, all of them, that's their shtick. Wanna know something else? The Worm Cult is literally all over the world, you really think that they wouldnt teach people how to do it? It isn't a secret art, not anymore. What class you are is not your trade in game, nobody calls you over like You! Dragonknight! Come over here! No, that doesn't happen. Literally every argument about oh it isn't legal is really bad, since, neither is damn blood-magic, but tell that to every single magnb who rely on it. Sorcerers? Yeah, summoning Daedra is always good and accepted in every culture, they little nice demons from hell, but, bringing back dead? Outrageous! No, they're both not allowed and both will get you thrown into a cell. If you wanna make an argument, make a better one cause this one is just bad, like I said.

Oh, and the argument about "Necromancers are your enemy." yeah, so are the other two alliances, I can go there and do their quest and become their hero, can't I? Everybody can! In Skyrim, Dawnguard, the Vampires were also your enemies, remember? But you could do a 180 and tell those annoying *** to *** off and enjoy your devilish Ancient Vampire powers thing, right? You can also go back to helping the good guys, you end up killing Harkon in every single scenario anyway, so that doesn't quite mean jack. Your character doesn't have to be a god damn goodie two shoes every single time. Even if there aren't many choices but a lot of ilussion of choice, what would you being able to summon a skelly or two to help you out in kicking Molag Bal's ass anyway? Skyrim, you're the Dragonborn but you can be a god damn conjurer yourself, Meridia won't give two sh. and a biscuit about that. Giving the players something they want and let them play it in the same questline as everyone else has been done countless times. You want something better? Give classes different main story lines ways. Make everything unique but don't just say we won't do this cause this. This is an MMO, not a single player experience. Saying somebody is your enemy is quite avoiding the fact that everyone on an MMO is your enemy.

Necromancy is not a hidden skill, there are tons of books written in this era about conjuration and the bring back of the dead. There are a *** ton of Necromancers in the wild, they're practically everywhere, can't turn your nose and not expect it to smell some rotten flesh being used to make a flesh attronach. You yourself made a flesh attronach in the main story, Tharn compliments you and claims, jokingly, there is still time to turn you into a necromancer. You use filled soul gems to ressurect down players, yeah, it's a game mechanic, still soul-magic and close enough to necromancy. You fight thousands of liches, skeletons, and god knows what other abominations made by these Necromancers. You have countless questlines in which you find out somebody is a god damn necromancer at the end. Dark Brotherhood isn't legal either and better than half the playerbase has a Blade of Woe.

ZOS just add Necromancy, pls.

Tyrobag

I 5000% agree. Thank you for consolidating this information here too, it'll be a good place to direct people when they try to argue against necromancy.